I felt the one in the book was both a little weak in comparison to the vampire and the fact that it's bite didn't transmit lycanthropy was bs....the fear of becoming a werewolf and confusion in coping with the change was part of the fun of fighting a werewolf (particularly if they don't lose their alignment)
I think a werewolf should be able to take a vampire in a fistfight.
I hope ravenloft does it better.
And those are just example werewolves. You could level it up, add a class template, etc. To make it on par with a vampire.
re
yeah I know that and it stinks....moon madness? what the heck is that about? Werewolf should be avaiable as a template....I have a player who liked playing a werewolf and he's not gonna be satisfied with a longtooth shifter.
The best d20 werewolf I've seen is monty cooks world of darkness ...that is the perfect d20 werewolf....with a little modification that fit perfectly into a d20 game.
you shouldn't have to level it up a typical werewolf should take a typical vampire.
I don't want to come off too angry sounding but In a future expansion I'd like to see a better werewolf (with a template version)
1st I never liked the idea of tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Curs...
so now that I said that, I would like to see a whole group of werwolf stats, kinda like the way there are 6 or 8 types running from 4th or 5th elite and going up to 11th minon...
edit: I would also like to see other type of wolves... ones that only turn from wolf to man, ones that do hybrid...ones that turn into direwolves...
maybe include some regular wolf for encounters
You're not going to get a werewolf template, because there's no way to balance the additional benefits you'd get. It's unreasonable to expect to just be handed a bunch of abilities for free.
You know what would be balanced? A werewolf theme and/or some feats, a paragon path, and perhaps even an epic destiny.
You're not going to get a werewolf template, because there's no way to balance the additional benefits you'd get. It's unreasonable to expect to just be handed a bunch of abilities for free.
You know what would be balanced? A werewolf theme and/or some feats, a paragon path, and perhaps even an epic destiny.
I'm not sold on the viability of themes, but there's already the shifter racial paragon path that includes a 'turn into an animal' power, and several feats for shifters (which should really be the only people accessing lycanthropic abilities, IMO). I feel it's adequately covered.
You're not going to get a werewolf template, because there's no way to balance the additional benefits you'd get. It's unreasonable to expect to just be handed a bunch of abilities for free.
You know what would be balanced? A werewolf theme and/or some feats, a paragon path, and perhaps even an epic destiny.
I'm not sold on the viability of themes, but there's already the shifter racial paragon path that includes a 'turn into an animal' power, and several feats for shifters (which should really be the only people accessing lycanthropic abilities, IMO). I feel it's adequately covered.
I'm not sure I'd agree that only shifters should get lycanthropic abilities. Their ancestral link to lycanthropes is quite different from the the cursed human (or dwarf, or halfling, or elf, etc) who's slowly losing control of himself to a raging beast. The shifter, to me, doesn't offer the full idea - you get one encounter power, and that's pretty much it. The theme allows swaps so that you can take as many powers as you like to represent it - works better. The idea just doesn't seem fully expressed without this idea of being part on thing (The character's race), and part another (The theme).
Wouldn't it be easier to make it a bloodline, just like teh dhampyr?
I too think that this would be more viable than a theme. It would include a skill bonus and a polymorph daily power that would give you regeneration and some other benefits. Feats and Paragon Paths would modify the bloodline.
How about a multi-class only class, like Spellscarred?
That is, more or less, what themes are. If FR were re-released today, I think it's pretty certain we'd see Spellscarred as a theme (or several themes). But more directly, yes, that would be an excellent solution.
you shouldn't have to level it up a typical werewolf should take a typical vampire.
Why?
This isn't White Wolf.
you shouldn't have to level it up a typical werewolf should take a typical vampire.
Why?
This isn't White Wolf.
the same reason why typical Ninja should be better then typical Pirates... or why wizards should have mroe pwoer then fighters... becuse that is what X person wants...
I think a werewolf should be able to take a vampire in a fistfight.
vampire lord is level 11 elite monster
werewolf lord is level 13 elite monster
i agree with salla regarding shifters, with all of their support, adequately covering the werewolf-as-player-character thing.
as an aside, i envision different types of lycanthropes as stemming from different underlying races. with the exception of scepter tower of spellguard, wotc has presented all types of lycanthropes as appearing human. i prefer to say that wererats appear as halflings (a la spellguard), wereboars as dwarves, werewolves as humans, werecrocodiles as lizardfolk, weretigers as elves(?), and wereserpents as ?.
and wereserpents as ?.
Lawyers?
I also made orcish wereboars as a unique creature for one of my games. I see orcs as closer to boars.
My writeup is here ( community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... ), but a quick search in the House Rules forum should turn up some others.
I would envisoon dwarves as wereBEARS, actually (there was even a run of dwarven werebear minis to that effect).
I also made orcish wereboars as a unique creature for one of my games. I see orcs as closer to boars.
in this area, i think that dwarves and orcs have some overlap.
i think dwarves are appropriate for wereboars and werebears.
i think that orcs are appropriate for wereboars and wereapes (yet to be seen in 4e).
i attributed dwarves to wereboars in part because there is official 4e material that associates boars with dwarves (see thundertusk companion feat). i have long envisioned (i.e., pre-4e) dwarf rangers with boar companions and dwarf paladins with dire boar mounts (alternatively, i have also envisioned dwarf paladins riding dire mountain goats up steep mountainsides--such a cool image).
p.s., now that you mention werebears, i realize that they are a blaring absence in 4e. now that i consider it, perhaps i would associate werebears with goliaths. i still am not entirely sure about weretigers--elves seem contenders--and i have no idea about wereserpents, other than humans. undoubtedly, a werebadger, wereraccoon or werebunnyrabbit would have to be gnome.
and wereserpents as ?.
Lawyers?
that's a good one.
i suppose i shouldn't take that personally.
(No, I'm not serious.)
Come to think of it, I have also used Dire Boars as dwarf paladin mounts.
Orc just seem more piglike to me than anything else.
As far as wereserpents...yuan-ti?
Come to think of it, I have also used Dire Boars as dwarf paladin mounts.
Orc just seem more piglike to me than anything else.
As far as wereserpents...yuan-ti?
the problem i have with yuan-ti is that they already have that part-snake, part-human thing going on. and between the malisons, abominations, and anathemas, along with the varieties of snaketongue cultists, there already seem to be every possible permutation of snake and man. then add to that the weresnakes. i suppose, given that the yuanti & co already are so very tied to humans, it would be best to leave the weresnake as is. i just can't seem to get the word "overkill" out of my head.
pre-4e, orcs very much had that porcine thing going on, but i am not seeing much, if any, of that in the 4e art for orcs.
isn't it funny how the yuan-ti have every combination covered, and yet, other than lolth herself, the drow never have had a drow-spider shapeshifter (driders are not shapeshifters)? and i mean never. no edition of the game. never. that is why i reskinned yochlols to be just that.
Aranea are arachnid shapeshifters - they're not specifically drow or Lolth-affiliated, but they've been around since D&D Expert days.
thanks for reminding me about the aranea. actually, i was speaking specifically about drow/spider shapeshifters, which the aranea were not. nonetheless, a 4e aranea would be the closest thing to a werespider in 4e, but after the chitines and ettercaps, i question whether we will see them again.