This has already been mentioned in another thread as a movie tie in book. This is true but it's also suppose to be the 4e version of the 3e supplement. This looks to be a BOVD just for 4e. Yes, I'm sure some of the content of the movie makes it in the book. However, I'm sure some of the concepts of the 3e BOVD are updated and given that 4e look. I really enjoyed the 3e BOVD because my homebrew is a dark fantasy setting.
So, does this mean WotC is dropping some of the "Hey, I know what you do is actually evil but you're really misunderstood and good on the inside" crap?
Personally, I'm hoping they make it more of a DM's guide on villainy in general, as opposed to a book full of options for PCs. We've had books on undead, demons, and dragons so far. Maybe this will cover evil devils and deities.
The movie tie in might mean that it has some of the villains from the movie (which I didn't even know they were making) statted out.
I don't know if they would retread the whole, creepy, lots of necrotic/cold damage keyword, shrouded in darkness, monstrous PC options that they're about to do in Heroes of Shadow.
What is BOVD? Can you spell it out please....
Book of Vile Darkness, it's a new book that was announced at D&D Experience. The old BoVD was released for 3.0, rather infamous in that it was supposed to be a book for "mature readers". The content was handled about as well as you'd think... in a "here are some topless monsters, rules for drugs, and some spells where you rip out your opponent's heart!" sort of way.
A new Book of Vile Darkness? Oh dear...
Personally, I'm hoping they make it more of a DM's guide on villainy in general, as opposed to a book full of options for PCs. We've had books on undead, demons, and dragons so far. Maybe this will cover evil devils and deities.
The movie tie in might mean that it has some of the villains from the movie (which I didn't even know they were making) statted out.
I don't know if they would retread the whole, creepy, lots of necrotic/cold damage keyword, shrouded in darkness, monstrous PC options that they're about to do in Heroes of Shadow.
This may be HOS on crack. I fear WotC is nearing the "Let's throw this against the wall and see if it sticks!" phase of an edition. Hey, if it looks pretty good I'll snatch it up just like I plan on with HOS. I prefer my games to be of a darker nature.
A new Book of Vile Darkness? Oh dear...
Personally, I'm hoping they make it more of a DM's guide on villainy in general, as opposed to a book full of options for PCs. We've had books on undead, demons, and dragons so far. Maybe this will cover evil devils and deities.
The movie tie in might mean that it has some of the villains from the movie (which I didn't even know they were making) statted out.
I don't know if they would retread the whole, creepy, lots of necrotic/cold damage keyword, shrouded in darkness, monstrous PC options that they're about to do in Heroes of Shadow.
This may be HOS on crack. I fear WotC is nearing the "Let's throw this against the wall and see if it sticks!" phase of an edition. Hey, if it looks pretty good I'll snatch it up just like I plan on with HOS. I prefer my games to be of a darker nature.
Heroes of Shadow seems pretty focused.
It's all about the Shadowfell and characters stemming from it. You have classes dealing with shadows, death, undead, etc. These are things that people have been asking for for a while- what with articles on Dhampyr, Revenants, Shadar-Kai, Necromancy, and the Assassin class- so there's also plenty of precedent. It's not about being evil in general as we haven't seen much discussing demons, devils, dragons, or gods- unless they pertain specifically to death and the Shadowfell.
If they're near that point, I don't think HoS is the indicator.
A new Book of Vile Darkness? Oh dear...
Personally, I'm hoping they make it more of a DM's guide on villainy in general, as opposed to a book full of options for PCs. We've had books on undead, demons, and dragons so far. Maybe this will cover evil devils and deities.
The movie tie in might mean that it has some of the villains from the movie (which I didn't even know they were making) statted out.
I don't know if they would retread the whole, creepy, lots of necrotic/cold damage keyword, shrouded in darkness, monstrous PC options that they're about to do in Heroes of Shadow.
This may be HOS on crack. I fear WotC is nearing the "Let's throw this against the wall and see if it sticks!" phase of an edition. Hey, if it looks pretty good I'll snatch it up just like I plan on with HOS. I prefer my games to be of a darker nature.
Heroes of Shadow seems pretty focused.
It's all about the Shadowfell and characters stemming from it. You have classes dealing with shadows, death, undead, etc. These are things that people have been asking for for a while- what with articles on Dhampyr, Revenants, Shadar-Kai, Necromancy, and the Assassin class- so there's also plenty of precedent. It's not about being evil in general as we haven't seen much discussing demons, devils, dragons, or gods- unless they pertain specifically to death and the Shadowfell.
If they're near that point, I don't think HoS is the indicator.
I don't understand why they'll release HOS and then turn around in the near future and release a 4e BOVD. It seems a lot of HOS could be contained in BOVD. However, I may think I'm getting Darth Vader and wind up with Jar Jar Binks!
It's probably a quick marketing ploy to get us to pay attention to the BOVD movie.
I don't understand why they'll release HOS and then turn around in the near future and release a 4e BOVD. It seems a lot of HOS could be contained in BOVD. However, I may think I'm getting Darth Vader and wind up with Jar Jar Binks!
It's probably a quick marketing ploy to get us to pay attention to the BOVD movie.
Have they actually said what is going to be in the BoVD? My gut instinct is that it will be a monster/DM advice book(also that it will be a horrible book, but that is a different issue). If so then HoS covers a seperate but tangentially related subject matter.
Its a syfy movie, so don't expect too much. I mean expect "Mega Python vs Gatoroid" (this weeks syfy movie) quality not something like Conan or Excalibur.
I'm sure the book will have the same suckitude. I fear WotC is going to screw the pooch on this one!
What is BOVD? Can you spell it out please....
Book of Vile Darkness, it's a new book that was announced at D&D Experience. The old BoVD was released for 3.0, rather infamous in that it was supposed to be a book for "mature readers". The content was handled about as well as you'd think... in a "here are some topless monsters, rules for drugs, and some spells where you rip out your opponent's heart!" sort of way.
So, really, it was a book for immature readers.
Im so glad the BoVD is going to be a Syfy movie. Awesome.
I love the Syfy channel. I am so committed to the 'genre', I dont mind sitting thru a terrible scifi movie (or kungfu movie). This upcoming D&D movie can be pretty cheesy and still get away with it if its on the Syfy channel where it can evade movie reviews. And if you force your friends to watch it with you you can always give them lots of beer, rum-n-cokes, or chocolate martinis. Red wine might be strangely appropriate. On Syfy, the emphasis is on relaxing and having fun, and not necessarily about seeing an 'epic' movie. Cant wait! Wel have a blast.
Anyway, who knows, Vile Darkness could turn out to be an incredible movie.
So, does this mean WotC is dropping some of the "Hey, I know what you do is actually evil but you're really misunderstood and good on the inside" crap?
Actually that is the Dark Is Not Evil trope.
So, does this mean WotC is dropping some of the "Hey, I know what you do is actually evil but you're really misunderstood and good on the inside" crap?
Actually that is the Dark Is Not Evil trope.
Sorry, we'll have to disagree on this one.
Sorry, we'll have to disagree on this one.
But... But... You cannot disagree and while being reasonable!
THIS IS THE INTERNET!!!!!!!:-p
So, really, it was a book for immature readers.
Yep, the prose was god awful. It tried so hard to sound shocking and creepy, but just came off as immature. They are not halflings... but EVILLLL HALFLINGS WHO DRINK BLOOD AND HAVE SPIKES AND CHAINS ALL OVER! That kind of thing.
Its a syfy movie, so don't expect too much. I mean expect "Mega Python vs Gatoroid" (this weeks syfy movie) quality not something like Conan or Excalibur.
Syfy has released some decent TV movies: their "Giant Animal and/or Mutant Hybrid Animal" movies are deliberately campy, but alot of their other movies are OK. There was one not to long ago about the moon crashing into the Earth that was actually pretty damn good... the science was even okay, by Hollywood standards. Ice Quake wasn't great, but I was impressed with the general plausiblity of the science (again, by Hollywood standards).
But yes, the network does relese things like Mansquito and Sharktopus.
Its a syfy movie, so don't expect too much. I mean expect "Mega Python vs Gatoroid" (this weeks syfy movie) quality not something like Conan or Excalibur.
Syfy has released some decent TV movies: their "Giant Animal and/or Mutant Hybrid Animal" movies are deliberately campy, but alot of their other movies are OK. There was one not to long ago about the moon crashing into the Earth that was actually pretty damn good... the science was even okay, by Hollywood standards. Ice Quake wasn't great, but I was impressed with the general plausiblity of the science (again, by Hollywood standards).
But yes, the network does relese things like Mansquito and Sharktopus.
C'mon, Sharktopus is a sure-thing for an Oscar this year...
You didn't like it? ;) :P
Did someone mention Exaclibur as a quality movie? Really? Excalibur?
Actually I said it was superior quality to "Mega Python vs Gatoroid", and given it won an award at Cannes, picked up a Hugo and a Saturn Award, and was nominated for an Oscar, I'm pretty sure most would agree with me on the analysis the Excalibur is better then MP vs G. Thats not even throwing in the acting differential between Helen Mirren & Nigel Terry (Excalibur) vs Debbie Gibson & Tiffany (MP vs G).
Its a syfy movie, so don't expect too much. I mean expect "Mega Python vs Gatoroid" (this weeks syfy movie) quality not something like Conan or Excalibur.
There was one not to long ago about the moon crashing into the Earth that was actually pretty damn good... the science was even okay, by Hollywood standards. Ice Quake wasn't great, but I was impressed with the general plausiblity of the science (again, by Hollywood standards).
Oh please don't say general plausibility and SyFy movies together, the gang here in Rocket City watches the channel (and have some cool drinking games based on the movies), and in the past some of us have even tried to help them out with their science, but like Roland Emmerich, they dont want to have to real science "mess up" the story they are muddling through.
-Tig
Did someone mention Exaclibur as a quality movie? Really? Excalibur?
Excalibur is actually the best movie there has ever been on the Arthurian mythos. So yes, it is a quality movie.
Unfortunately, some people don't get it (for example, when Merlin goes to see Morgana in her camp. I've heard people complain that guards were not reacting to him moving around. That's because he's invisible to them. The movie was made at a time when a movie did not take you by the hand and explain everything in detail like they do today, sadly.)
But was Patrick Stewart's character a king? I thought he was a duke or lord or something like that... it's been a while since I last saw it though.
But was Patrick Stewart's character a king?
Did he have any **** on him?
Wait, that didn't come out right. @_@ Let me try again.
I loved BoVD 3e, although I've never been able to own it all these years. I love it so much, in fact, that when my gf found one in a local bargain bookstore, she immediately bought it as an early Valentines day present to me. I can't wait `til we read the sacrifice rules together!
...
Aw, crap. I hope she's not applying for the disciple of Graz'zt prestige class. >.>
*eherm*
In all seriousness, BoVD may have led to some of the most immature games ever, but in my experience it has also been the conduit for some of the most intense storylines I've ever seen for DnD. If the 4E version is at least half as inspiring for me as a DM as the 3e book was, then I'll be sure to buy it.
At the very least, sacrifice rules should be nice. XD
For players, I expect that the BoVD may include options for anti-hero characters, but I fully doubt it will include true villianous options for them*.
Please stop thinking that just because it has the same name, the 4E BoVD will follow the same format as the 3E one. The 4E PHB is nothing like the 3E PHB, so why would this be any different.
* With that being said, 1 chapter on running a villainous campaign (adventure design, how to avoid pitfalls etc), and a handful of paragon paths/epic destinies/feats/powers to support it would be really cool, as there is a huge demand for it even if it isn't the primary focus of the product line.
Said chapter could always be folded into the anti-hero section if neccessary, although I believe there is enough content (for players and DM's alike) for it to warrant its own section.
www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-2-Movie-...
Yes /i know its the not so shining films, but worth mentioning at least...
Well, if you're going to do THAT, might as well go all the way, switch from SyFy to Cinemax, and have the next D&D movie be the Book of Erotic Fantasy.
. . . What?
On topic, I believe that the fluff in the recent Vecna article mentioned that the Book of Vile Darkness was written by Vecna himself, and filled with all manner of the darkest information that he could find: deals with demons and devils, necromancy, the powers of the malignant stars, and ways to breach the boundaries of the world. So if they do it right, it will be exactly the sort of book I could get behind.
Well, if you're going to do THAT, might as well go all the way, switch from SyFy to Cinemax, and have the next D&D movie be the Book of Erotic Fantasy.
. . . What?
For those in the dark on this, the BOEF was a 3rd party supplement for 3.0 D&D (& 3.5), written by Duncan Scott and present WotC staffer Gwendolyn F. M. Kestrel, for a now (I think) defunct gaming company called Valar Project, Inc.
It was rules for campaigns that drifted into the R, NC-17, and X ratings during roleplay (much like the BOVD only without the evil.) I thought it was a nice counterpoint, given that lingering Puritanism in the USA makes killing one another more socially acceptable than nudity and sexuality for some insane reason.
On topic, I believe that the fluff in the recent Vecna article mentioned that the Book of Vile Darkness was written by Vecna himself, and filled with all manner of the darkest information that he could find: deals with demons and devils, necromancy, the powers of the malignant stars, and ways to breach the boundaries of the world. So if they do it right, it will be exactly the sort of book I could get behind.
Sure, I get that, but I'm still not holding out much hope for the movie.
Well, if you're going to do THAT, might as well go all the way, switch from SyFy to Cinemax, and have the next D&D movie be the Book of Erotic Fantasy.
. . . What?
For those in the dark on this, the BOEF was a 3rd party supplement for 3.0 D&D (& 3.5), written by Duncan Scott and present WotC staffer Gwendolyn F. M. Kestrel, for a now (I think) defunct gaming company called Valar Project, Inc.
It was rules for campaigns that drifted into the R, NC-17, and X ratings during roleplay (much like the BOVD only without the evil.) I thought it was a nice counterpoint, given that lingering Puritanism in the USA makes killing one another more socially acceptable than nudity and sexuality for some insane reason.On topic, I believe that the fluff in the recent Vecna article mentioned that the Book of Vile Darkness was written by Vecna himself, and filled with all manner of the darkest information that he could find: deals with demons and devils, necromancy, the powers of the malignant stars, and ways to breach the boundaries of the world. So if they do it right, it will be exactly the sort of book I could get behind.
Sure, I get that, but I'm still not holding out much hope for the movie.
Nor do I. At least Cinemax movies are funny. If nothing else.
On topic, I believe that the fluff in the recent Vecna article mentioned that the Book of Vile Darkness was written by Vecna himself, and filled with all manner of the darkest information that he could find: deals with demons and devils, necromancy, the powers of the malignant stars, and ways to breach the boundaries of the world. So if they do it right, it will be exactly the sort of book I could get behind.
This is more like it. A more detailed look at the darkness surrounding those points of light. I think it's more than likely this is the content of the new BOVD.
That was Kalnaur, not me.
Oops, my bad DB. I over edited the post.
That was Kalnaur, not me.
I was going to mention this last night. Then the internet went down.
That was Kalnaur, not me.
I was going to mention this last night. Then the internet went down.
OMG, WotC killed the internetz!!!!!?!!!
Lobo, the Last Czarnian: YOU BASTICHES!!!!!!
On topic, I believe that the fluff in the recent Vecna article mentioned that the Book of Vile Darkness was written by Vecna himself, and filled with all manner of the darkest information that he could find: deals with demons and devils, necromancy, the powers of the malignant stars, and ways to breach the boundaries of the world. So if they do it right, it will be exactly the sort of book I could get behind.
That's not really new fluff, the BoVD was always supposed to have been co-written by the who-is-who of the lower planes. Didn't stop them from concluding "vile = containing nipples" for the 3.5 BovD
That was Kalnaur, not me.
I was going to mention this last night. Then the internet went down.
The whole internet went down? I thought it was just my server.
Or the succubus why would she need clothing?
Based on this statement, I'm not sure you understand how seduction actually works.
why would a creature that can turn you into stone by looking at you need armor?
Medusa sure as hell could have used a neck guard or something.
why would a creature that can turn you into stone by looking at you need armor?
Medusa sure as hell could have used a neck guard or something.
BURRRN
On topic, I believe that the fluff in the recent Vecna article mentioned that the Book of Vile Darkness was written by Vecna himself, and filled with all manner of the darkest information that he could find: deals with demons and devils, necromancy, the powers of the malignant stars, and ways to breach the boundaries of the world. So if they do it right, it will be exactly the sort of book I could get behind.
That's not really new fluff, the BoVD was always supposed to have been co-written by the who-is-who of the lower planes. Didn't stop them from concluding "vile = containing nipples" for the 3.5 BovD
I like nipples, so I might be biased saying that they are not vile.
However, bared breasts that resemble teats of some animal are disturbing, especially when attached to a human form. Together with tenebrism, viscous fluids, piercings multiple/odd numbered eyes, arms, etc. and more, you can make some damned disturbing art. This should be the way a book of vile darkness travels.
Also, nakedness within the monster kingdom is understandable to a point.
Or the succubus why would she need clothing?
Based on this statement, I'm not sure you understand how seduction actually works.
It's a common misconception in this industry, where in a world of demons and devils, a near-naked woman propositioning you is not even slightly suspicious. Admittedly, if you were willing to risk your life or soul for a roll in the hay, you probably weren't long for this world to begin with.
It's something of a pity, because a deal with a devil (literal or otherwise) makes for exciting drama as both sides try to out-wit each other and struggle for the upper hand in the bargain. Seduction is a key part of it, but reducing the act of tempting someone to stray down to a simple physical aspect does it a grave disservice. It's about figuring out what the target wants, and convincing the target that it can be acquired for an acceptable price (especially when compared to what the target might lose by not accepting the bargain) while concealing what the tempter will gain out of it.
I rather miss the good old days when most of the female monsters had exposed breasts. It at least made sense, why would a creature that can turn you into stone by looking at you need armor? Or the succubus why would she need clothing?
I’m getting old, I hate this PC crap. Based on the 3.x version of this book I’m not holding out hope for a decent product, it’s more likely to be rusty chastity belts, and thumb screws.
As if 4e doesn't have enough of a problem with people labeling it as pandering to to horny juveniles. How can they, when they do such horrible things as putting breasts on their dragonfolk and not making dwarven women look like hairy men in drag?
In all seriousness, I think it's a hornet's nest best left avoided. You want to have an accessible product and the 3.5 BoVD alienated younger customers (or their parents) with it's "Mature Only Label" as well as older customers with it's "Sex, Violence, and Drugs!" focused content.
I think the 4E version would be best served with dealing with actual bad guys. Going in depth about making a good villain (motivations, themes, and running recurring enemies), examples of evil plots, types of evil organizations, etc. So far we haven't seen such a book that wasn't specifically about a certain type of monster (dragons, demons/devils, undead).
One could just as reasonably ask why so many monsters are made to look like attractive human females in the first place? Is there something about the female body that D&D finds monstrous? :P
All I'm saying is this isn't a bag of worms worth getting into in the first place.
I hope it ia a decent book which gives good advice for how to run horror-themed games, maybe introduces a sanity/taint mechanic, provides loads more horror-themed monsters, traps, terain features, items etc.
Then again I could be disappointed. Don't really care about art with breasts/drugs/S&M/self-harm whatever so long as it's good art.
One could just as reasonably ask why so many monsters are made to look like attractive human females in the first place? Is there something about the female body that D&D finds monstrous? :P
To be honest, I think they do this because it's shorthand. You instantly know which one is female just by looking at the picture.
There are other ways to do this, of course, but they aren't as easy (or probably as instantly recognizable).
What were we talking about again?
To be honest, I think they do this because it's shorthand. You instantly know which one is female just by looking at the picture.
I was thinking more the ones where their feminity was part and parcel to their monstrousity. Succubus, Nymph, etc.
What were we talking about again?
The Book of Vile Darkness, whether it will or should include pictures of exposed breasts, whether the female anatomy is vile or monstrous to begin with.
A lot of random conversation to fill space, since there's almost no actual information about this product to actually talk about yet.
The Book of Vile Darkness, whether it will or should include pictures of exposed breasts, whether the female anatomy is vile or monstrous to begin with.
Female anatomy is a pleasure to look at, so no it does not qualify as "vile". Male anatomy on the other hand could probably qualify under the "vile" label. Not that WotC would ever publish that considering the backlash that would ensue. *insert tirade on difference of acceptence between male and female nudity*.....Wow this thread has taken a weird turn. O.o
The Book of Vile Darkness, whether it will or should include pictures of exposed breasts, whether the female anatomy is vile or monstrous to begin with.
Female anatomy is a pleasure to look at, so no it does not qualify as "vile". Male anatomy on the other hand could probably qualify under the "vile" label. Not that WotC would ever publish that considering the backlash that would ensue. *insert tirade on difference of acceptence between male and female nudity*.....Wow this thread has taken a weird turn. O.o
This is subjective. I know people who would claim that a man's anatomy is much more pleasurable to look at than female anatomy.
I guess the only solution is to put them both into the book, but only in the most vile, corpulent, vomit-inducing ways imaginable.
See that's exactly the kind of gross-out stuff that some of us were hoping this particular book of vile darkness would pass over.
I uh, I was kidding.
That's not really new fluff, the BoVD was always supposed to have been co-written by the who-is-who of the lower planes. Didn't stop them from concluding "vile = containing nipples" for the 3.5 BovD
Well, if you only got one eye, you might as well have something to look at, right?
In addition to showcasing characters and locations featured in the upcoming Dungeons & Dragons: The Book of Vile Darkness Syfy Original Movie, this roleplaying game product is intended for Dungeon Masters looking to broaden their campaigns to include dark subject matter and truly evil threats. It features a detailed look at the nature of evil and the complex challenge of confronting the many dilemmas found within the deepest shadows.
It includes:
• A 32-page facsimile of the Book of Vile Darkness, filled with malignant secrets and musings that can inspire adventures or entire campaigns;
• A 96-page game supplement that provides Dungeon Masters with sample roleplaying encounters, adventure hooks, skill challenges, rituals, and lore for some of the most despicable creatures to infest any campaign world, new character options for players who like to flirt with evil;
• A full-color, double-sided poster map presenting iconic evil sites for heroes to explore.
I don't know why people defend SyFy for making crappy movies. I love science-fiction, but can't stand watching intentionally bad movies, especially science fiction movies.
These are the people who brought us BSG. They can do much better than tBoVD. They won't; but they can.
Unfortunatley TD those execs are no longer with NBC/Universal/SyFy. Those were the same execs that brought SG1 over from Showtime and revived the series and gave us Farscape too. They could spot good sci-fi material. This newer bunch are pathetic. I mean, c'mon, WWE is NOT sci-fi!!
Hopefully, the BOVD movie will be watchable, if not half way decent. I'm holding on to the slim chance that it could be good.
Well, if you're going to do THAT, might as well go all the way, switch from SyFy to Cinemax, and have the next D&D movie be the Book of Erotic Fantasy.
. . . What?
For those in the dark on this, the BOEF was a 3rd party supplement for 3.0 D&D (& 3.5), written by Duncan Scott and present WotC staffer Gwendolyn F. M. Kestrel, for a now (I think) defunct gaming company called Valar Project, Inc.
It was rules for campaigns that drifted into the R, NC-17, and X ratings during roleplay (much like the BOVD only without the evil.) I thought it was a nice counterpoint, given that lingering Puritanism in the USA makes killing one another more socially acceptable than nudity and sexuality for some insane reason.On topic, I believe that the fluff in the recent Vecna article mentioned that the Book of Vile Darkness was written by Vecna himself, and filled with all manner of the darkest information that he could find: deals with demons and devils, necromancy, the powers of the malignant stars, and ways to breach the boundaries of the world. So if they do it right, it will be exactly the sort of book I could get behind.
Sure, I get that, but I'm still not holding out much hope for the movie.
Nor do I. At least Cinemax movies are funny. If nothing else.
And you're saying the Book Of Erotic fantasy isn't hillarious?
Anyway, I do kind of like the old Book of Vile Darkness. Yes, it was more a book of cartoonish supervillainy than true evil, but I like cartoonish supervillainy, so there you go. And I do hope they include the Nipple Clamp of Exquisite Torture in the new one, because that's one of my favorite hilariously stupid magic items ever.