I know the new premium, silvery, fancy eat-your-money editions of the core rulebooks are apparently updated to include all the fixes and errata and whatnot.
I was just wondering if and when Wizards was going to just start printing the normal editions of the core rulebooks with the proper fixes. I really can't afford to shell out so much money for a book i deem uglier than the regular edition, and i dont want to rely on a bunch of Post-Its all over every page of my PHB & DMG.
They had said they weren't planning on including the errata for the deluxe books and likely only added it as a perk. Opposed to releasing new books with already outdated information. They're going above and beyond for the deluxe and people are complaining...
Really, we might see a revised/updated 4e in a few years.
If they did it now people would complain about "being forced to buy the exact same books every year" even if the new book just had incorporated errata.
In a couple years, when they have a sizable number of changes, errata, fixes they might slip out a new set of books, possibly adding a couple extras as a further perk.
Personally I am hoping that future PHBs will include the full game rules including all current updates. This way not only can a group play with just PHB2 or PHB3 you also get the full PHB value with each purchase and can just refer to the newest PHB for rules disputes.
This sounds like a pretty good idea to me, especially since the meat and potatoes of future PHB releases (from what i understand thus far) will be new classes and races. And the rest of the book? All the content can run parallel basically. And if someone is deciding to just get into the game, they can pick up the Player's Handbook with the races/classes that seem most interesting to them.
Personally I am hoping that future PHBs will include the full game rules including all current updates. This way not only can a group play with just PHB2 or PHB3 you also get the full PHB value with each purchase and can just refer to the newest PHB for rules disputes.
I wouldn't count on it, I can just imagine the screams of indignation when people discover that they are buying the same rules again.
Wasn't the errata so far mainly typos anyway? I saw someone type that...
Well, they changed the complete pg. 42 table in the DMG, changed powers, and reworked the stealth rules... that's a lot more than typos.
Cheers, LT.
I'm terribly sorry if this has already been floating around, but I cant find it quick enough and i only browse these forums once every few months (this is actually my first time since 4e was released).
I know the new premium, silvery, fancy eat-your-money editions of the core rulebooks are apparently updated to include all the fixes and errata and whatnot.
I was just wondering if and when Wizards was going to just start printing the normal editions of the core rulebooks with the proper fixes. I really can't afford to shell out so much money for a book i deem uglier than the regular edition, and i dont want to rely on a bunch of Post-Its all over every page of my PHB & DMG.
They might. Usually when they need to order a new printing run, they would correct it to the latest errata. When is that? When they run out of the current printing run and the wholesalers ask for more.
During 3.5 at some point the PHB was updated and the newer copies had at least some eratta included, so it might happen for 4e on a future print run.
I got one of those. If you look at the fine print, it says it's the special edition printing. So it wasn't a case of incorporating errata into the text of "regular" PHBs as it was producing a copy of the special ewdition with the regular cover and no bookmark or gilded pages.
As far as I know, they only did it with the PHB. Probably because its special edition was the first one released and the PHB has the highest reprint rate (whereas the special editions of the DMG and MM came out quite late in the edition's lifespan and not as many people buy them anyway).
Considering that they are now releasing special editions quite early on in 4e's lifespan and they're releasing them all at once, it's quite possible we might see "special editions" printed with regular covers in the future.
The real question is -- if they do this with the first three books, will they do this with any of the others? If the PHB2 and MM2 and so on are supposed to be just as much "core" as the first ones, will they eventually reprint those with the inevitable errata that they will have? Probably not but we can hope ...
I wouldn't count on it, I can just imagine the screams of indignation when people discover that they are buying the same rules again.
Except they won't be buying the same rules again -- they're buying the rules with all the updated errata. And hell, judging by the suggested price on PHB2 we'll be spending the same amount on it as we did on PHB1, so we might as well get the whole shebang, rules and all.
Except they won't be buying the same rules again -- they're buying the rules with all the updated errata. And hell, judging by the suggested price on PHB2 we'll be spending the same amount on it as we did on PHB1, so we might as well get the whole shebang, rules and all.
Yeah for the screams of the masses, the whole errata thing wouldn't matter. It would be a better option for them to have it be roughly the same number of pages and fill it entirely with new stuff.
Yeah for the screams of the masses, the whole errata thing wouldn't matter. It would be a better option for them to have it be roughly the same number of pages and fill it entirely with new stuff.
Except the other option is to spend $39.95 on a 165 page book. Which will happen if they don't reprint the full rules.
Except the other option is to spend $39.95 on a 165 page book. Which will happen if they don't reprint the full rules.
Or they could always fill the book up new rules instead of reprinting stuff....you just a thought.
Anyways the PHBII is 224 pages and $34.95. So unless they managed to cut 80 or so pages of rules and other stuff, I don't think you'll see a full set of rules reprinted.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4487363-post4.html
Scott Rouse mentioned on ENW that once the stock of old un-errataed one run out, then they next print run will include errata (as per the posh books)
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4487363-post4.html
Glad to hear it. I'll have to see if I can fob off my un-errata'd books to someone else so I can afford to replace them with errata'd ones. Heh. (BTW, nice to see you over here for once, mr pants. ;))
Are there any plans for a rules compendium that will contain the fixed rules, perhaps, as a separate volume? I feel like one is sorely needed. It was useful with 3.5, but it feels like 4E needs it much sooner.
Probably not till the end of the edition's life cycle. The 3.5 book pulled together rules from lots of different sourcebooks. There simply aren't enough for 4e yet to warrant one.
Personally I am hoping that future PHBs will include the full game rules including all current updates. This way not only can a group play with just PHB2 or PHB3 you also get the full PHB value with each purchase and can just refer to the newest PHB for rules disputes.
This would be a wildly dumb marketing strategy, because that means they would never sell a PHB 1 or DMG 1 again... they'd only be able to sell this year's edition. Plus, they'd need to continue increasing the prices of the books, and they're pretty high to begin with. I, for one, have no plans to buy the newer PHB2 et al., and am instead going to be running a core-rules-only campaign, and have no intention of upgrading. Finding out that there are another half-dozen books that I have to have in order to keep running the game will be the deal-breaker that causes me to stop playing.
The real question is -- if they do this with the first three books, will they do this with any of the others? If the PHB2 and MM2 and so on are supposed to be just as much "core" as the first ones, will they eventually reprint those with the inevitable errata that they will have? Probably not but we can hope ...
IMNSHO, it would a stupid business decision to make ALL future rulebooks leatherbound collector's editions.
The traditional core rulebooks -- PHB, DMG, and MM -- are acceptable to be published in leatherbound since these three are essential for ALL D&D games.
Having said that, I'm not one of those showoff collectors. A standard edition rulebooks are good enough for me to play the game.
IMNSHO, it would a stupid business decision to make ALL future rulebooks leatherbound collector's editions.
The traditional core rulebooks -- PHB, DMG, and MM -- are acceptable to be published in leatherbound since these three are essential for ALL D&D games.
Having said that, I'm not one of those showoff collectors. A standard edition rulebooks are good enough for me to play the game.
You misunderstand me. I wasn't talking about doing collector's editions of all future sourcebooks (and with 4e they won't be leatherbound but rather covered in foil, for the record). I was talking about including errata in subsequent printings of all 4e books rather than just the first three. I doubt it will happen because they simply won't shift enough product of subsequent books to warrant it ...
This would be a wildly dumb marketing strategy, because that means they would never sell a PHB 1 or DMG 1 again... they'd only be able to sell this year's edition. Plus, they'd need to continue increasing the prices of the books, and they're pretty high to begin with. I, for one, have no plans to buy the newer PHB2 et al., and am instead going to be running a core-rules-only campaign, and have no intention of upgrading. Finding out that there are another half-dozen books that I have to have in order to keep running the game will be the deal-breaker that causes me to stop playing.
There would be plenty reason to buy PHB1: to get access to the classes, races, PPs, and epic destinies in it.
I wasn't recommending reprinting the entire PHB1 in future PHBs, just the rules for generating characters, how powers work, combat rules, adventuring rules, skills, etc. etc. etc. The class and race and powers and feat content should all stay separated.
Not that any of this matters at all since they aren't doing it, I just think it would be a good business decision to allow new players to play with only the latest rule book as opposed to having to keep printing PHB1 for ever and ever and watching later PHBs slump in sales.
You misunderstand me. I wasn't talking about doing collector's editions of all future sourcebooks (and with 4e they won't be leatherbound but rather covered in foil, for the record). I was talking about including errata in subsequent printings of all 4e books rather than just the first three. I doubt it will happen because they simply won't shift enough product of subsequent books to warrant it ...
That's because most supplements don't sell out well enough to warrant new printing runs.
The first three core rulebooks, the ones that are always present in all D&D gaming groups (old and new), are always being sold out and are always being in demand, like PS3 or Wii.
Assuming I start buying 4e, even I'm going to be choosy about what core supplements I want according to the need of my game.
That's because most supplements don't sell out well enough to warrant new printing runs.
Yes. I already acknowledged that. Last line in the post you quoted.
Yes. I already acknowledged that. Last line in the post you quoted.
Ah. That's what you mean by "shift."
Ah. That's what you mean by "shift."
Yeah. Did you think I was referring to books having to shift to avoid provoking opportunity attacks from the warehouse forklifts? ;)
They could always just cut out redundant printing of rules and sell them for $20-25.
Not many D&D gamers are required to have an ISP account, or a credit card for that matter.
While I am okay with writing in the errata to fix my book, I want to know if anything that has been changed through the errata will not be changed again, and that errata is the "final" decision on those rules. I don't want to scribble in my book fixing things, only to have to fix the scribbles.
A question I have that I can hope a Wizards employee can answer -
While I am okay with writing in the errata to fix my book, I want to know if anything that has been changed through the errata will not be changed again, and that errata is the "final" decision on those rules. I don't want to scribble in my book fixing things, only to have to fix the scribbles.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ask/20080626a
Q: How often will you make updates to D&D books?
A: Updates will be published for books that are between 3 and 9 months old, each March and September. In some circumstances we may do updates outside of this schedule. You can find the available updates here.
In other words, it looks like there will be two updates per book, and after the second update it is (hopefully) written in stone never to be changed.
For additions, I simply put an astrick (*) where the addition is meant to be (or for revision, I cross out the part that's wrong and put an *) then at the bottom of the page I put another * (like a legend) and print the errata.
Sometimes I found enough room to simply write the change next to it instead of making an astrick to put somewhere else.
While I am okay with writing in the errata to fix my book, I want to know if anything that has been changed through the errata will not be changed again, and that errata is the "final" decision on those rules. I don't want to scribble in my book fixing things, only to have to fix the scribbles.
Like when WotC went back and forth with the 3e polymorph rules?
I never equate "official ruling" with being "final ruling."
I was just wondering if and when Wizards was going to just start printing the normal editions of the core rulebooks with the proper fixes. I really can't afford to shell out so much money for a book i deem uglier than the regular edition, and i dont want to rely on a bunch of Post-Its all over every page of my PHB & DMG.
Not surprisingly, "I can't afford" rarely allows the option of "I don't want to".
If I recall, last time around, the third revision or later part of the 2nd revision (with the first, probably most major revision) were in a non-collector form.
You can pay for what will probably be the biggest revision at it's earliest or get by in piecemeal manner until the later versions come out but, convenience will usually have a price tag.
Myself, I liked and can afford the collector editions so, I only bought the PHB out of the core books (I rarely DM) and plan to get a complete set of collector's core books. I felt they wore a little better and were easier to recover when the books get piled up at the table with my 3.5 copy.
Well, I guess luckily for me I am buying the Deluxe Books (oooooh Shiny!). Go to amazon.com to buy them, their not as expensive as retail, I think I paid $141 for all three.
Umm, yeah. There has to be far more than just three books for me to drop $141.
I have to say NO to collector's edition, unless it comes with a yearly subscription to DDi.
Except they won't be buying the same rules again -- they're buying the rules with all the updated errata. And hell, judging by the suggested price on PHB2 we'll be spending the same amount on it as we did on PHB1, so we might as well get the whole shebang, rules and all.
I agree!!!
Umm, yeah. There has to be far more than just three books for me to drop $141.
I have to say NO to collector's edition, unless it comes with a yearly subscription to DDi.
You know, I was at Barnes & Noble yesterday. You wanna know how much they wanted for Warhammer: Dark Herrasy (spelled right?)?, $60 for a non-limited, non-shiny (oooo Shiny), non-errated book. At $45 a pop, it is a much better deal than buying those Warhammer books, plus you get QUALITY (hopefully).
Off topic, but has anyone had problems with their Adventurers Vault suppliment. I had to return my first one cause the backing on the front inside cover was glued on wrong, I got a replacement and now the 2nd and 2nd to the last page actually shows the binding (the part that keeps the book together). Just wanted to know if that was normal.
That's because most supplements don't sell out well enough to warrant new printing runs.
The first three core rulebooks, the ones that are always present in all D&D gaming groups (old and new), are always being sold out and are always being in demand, like PS3 or Wii.
Assuming I start buying 4e, even I'm going to be choosy about what core supplements I want according to the need of my game.
LOL My god P$3 in demand! Never. Never has been in demand except when ALL console are in demand at launch. FYI.
Umm, yeah. There has to be far more than just three books for me to drop $141.
I have to say NO to collector's edition, unless it comes with a yearly subscription to DDi.
What IF it came with the PDF versions (each PDF respective to their book, of course) on a disc or something (like they did with the Character Generator for the original PHB)?
Yearly subscribtion would be nice. Would flesh out the price a little more. We could suggest it on a new thread or something, get a whole bunch of signatures. They might do it, they have to listen to us on something right?
You know, I was at Barnes & Noble yesterday. You wanna know how much they wanted for Warhammer: Dark Herrasy (spelled right?)?, $60 for a non-limited, non-shiny (oooo Shiny), non-errated book. At $45 a pop, it is a much better deal than buying those Warhammer books, plus you get QUALITY (hopefully).
Off topic, but has anyone had problems with their Adventurers Vault suppliment. I had to return my first one cause the backing on the front inside cover was glued on wrong, I got a replacement and now the 2nd and 2nd to the last page actually shows the binding (the part that keeps the book together). Just wanted to know if that was normal.
Games Workshop is notorious amongst my friends for outright greedy pricing. Many of them even worked in their stores and feel they that way.
Games Workshop is notorious amongst my friends for outright greedy pricing. Many of them even worked in their stores and feel they that way.
I see that now :P
You know, I was at Barnes & Noble yesterday. You wanna know how much they wanted for Warhammer: Dark Herrasy (spelled right?)?, $60 for a non-limited, non-shiny (oooo Shiny), non-errated book. At $45 a pop, it is a much better deal than buying those Warhammer books, plus you get QUALITY (hopefully).
I don't use Warhammer product as my measuring stick, since I'm not their fan.
I don't use Warhammer product as my measuring stick, since I'm not their fan.
Im making a reference that IF you had liked Warhammer over D&D you would be a little more ticked off at the price diffrence. I am just saying one should be happy they are not being charged $60 for a book (I do like how it does lay out flat though).
Im making a reference that IF you had liked Warhammer over D&D you would be a little more ticked off at the price diffrence. I am just saying one should be happy they are not being charged $60 for a book (I do like how it does lay out flat though).
If the book's $60, it has better be thicker than my AGoT OGL RPG Core Rulebook from Guardians of Order.
If the book's $60, it has better be thicker than my AGoT OGL RPG Core Rulebook from Guardians of Order.
Im not familiar with that book.
WarHammer DH has a little less than 400 pages.
Dark Heresy: Purge the Unclean LOL a $40 adventure
Dark Heresy: Inquisitor's Handbook equivilent to PHII for $50
What IF it came with the PDF versions (each PDF respective to their book, of course) on a disc or something (like they did with the Character Generator for the original PHB)?
Don't recall the CharGen having a PDF. Still not worth the $141. Come on, think like Ron Popeil or Billy Mays (informercial spokesmen/salesmen).
Yearly subscribtion would be nice. Would flesh out the price a little more. We could suggest it on a new thread or something, get a whole bunch of signatures. They might do it, they have to listen to us on something right?
Don't know about the words "have to." They didn't listened when I didn't want 4e before 2010.
Im not familiar with that book.
A Game of Throne d20-based OGL RPG, based on the popular A Song of Ice and Fire novel series written by George R.R. Martin.
The book is about as thick as a college chemistry textbook, well-written and well-organized.
A Game of Throne d20-based OGL RPG, based on the popular A Song of Ice and Fire novel series written by George R.R. Martin.
The book is about as thick as a college chemistry textbook, well-written and well-organized.
I see. Any good?
How would you rate it vs. Dungeons & Dragons?
I therefore am likely to buy just PDFs (which can be updated by the publisher and re-downloaded free of charge) for the DMG and MM and buy them in physical form in a year or so when there is a new print run and most of the errata is included.
The MM seems to be nicely organised so I could easily print out the odd pages I need for a game and the DMG I don't envision referencing much at the game table anyway.
I will maybe do the same for the Eberron books when they come out, although they may be needed in physical form more often.