is this just character sheets or is there something else included in this?
So we're making our own character sheets. If you like the one online I'd recommend just printing that up and maybe writing on color-coded index cards for your powers (if you want to go that route) since you'd be able to read them a bit better. There really is no reason to pay $10 for something you can get for free.
This I have to see.
This is outrageous! FOUR CHARACTER SHEETS? FOUR????
Who was the brain trust behind that decision??? I can hear them telling me to fork over 10 bucks and go find a copy machine. They aren't even bound together.
This is what I get for supporting WotC when there are a gajillion free ones out there? I'm sick about this.
Anyone else....? Or am I alone here?
Does the landscape and cards look like this?
Yep, those are the ones. The power cards too. See what I mean about being way too small?
Does the landscape and cards look like this?
Yep, those are the ones. The power cards too. See what I mean about being way too small?
So landscape is just 11x8.5"
They runed the page sideways to fit the stuff on?
I figured it to be at least 8.5x17.
Still, 4 total sheets? I can't decide if most of the $10 went to the packaging, the blank power cards, or the shrinkwrap. It certainly wasn't the charcter sheets. :D
I'm lovin' 4E but, man, there is some strange decision making processes going on with the marketing people at WOTC. I kind of feel like there's a poster on the wall of someone's cubicle that quotes PT Barnum...
I think PT is in every cubicle. Definitely the PDF selling decision makers.
Do the sheets even have the back pages or are the one sided?
Do the sheets even have the back pages or are the one sided?
They are double-sided. Both versions. You also get a cover sheet/wrapper which you can essentially throw away, and it's all packed in a folder which the cards will fall right out of once you cut them up.
Remember this one...? You got 74 pages of character sheets! It was awesome!
(Still steaming)
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/217217400
OK, NOW I'm really mad. Time to make a phone call.
(Well, tomorrow) :P
"Page Count: 32"
Let's examine those "32" pages, shall we? (WOTC, I'm about to shame you, if that's even possible).
The Sleeve: Full color front and back cover, all about marketing. Blank on the inside. But I guess that's 4 pages, right? I'm being generous. Stick with me here.
The Folder: Full color front and back cover art. The front is what was on the sleeve. The back is that part of that decorative D&D glyph/mark. And lots of blue. The insides of the folder? A blank space with 7 lines on one side, and the XP table on the other. I guess that's another 4 pages.
The Sheets: 4 two-sided character sheets... 2 portrait, 2 landscape. 8 pages.
The Card: 8 two-sided sheets, perforated, each with 8 cards split up between Magic Items, Utility, Daily, Encounter and At-Will Powers. So I guess that's arguably 16 pages.
And there you go: 4+4+8+16=32 pages. Yes, you have to count the disposable cover and the completely blank flipside of it to get to 32, but there you are.
WOTC, what is wrong with you?!!? Do you not realize that you could have easily counted each of those cards as a two-sided page, and jacked the total page count up to 144 pages (8x8x2=128 plus the others)!!!?!?! I mean, seriously, as long as you're counting the cover with its blank side, why bother to get religion and stop there? Heck, I could get a sharpie and write on the shrinkwrap, and that's another 2 pages right there!!!
/snark
Seriously (no, really this time), 4 two-sided character sheets and 8 two-sided sheets of cards... that's 24 pages and you know that's being generous, but probably playing by ISBN rules. You're pushing it to throw in each side of the folder as a page. You're over the edge when you count a sleeve that tells me to "Get More at D&D Insider", lol.
WOTC, if you were my girlfriend, I'd dump you. And my wife would probably punch you. Then punch me for giving you money.
They are double-sided. Both versions. You also get a cover sheet/wrapper which you can essentially throw away, and it's all packed in a folder which the cards will fall right out of once you cut them up.
Remember this one...? You got 74 pages of character sheets! It was awesome!
(Still steaming)
Have a few white and black bordered versions still shrink wrapped. No Idea why becasue after photocpiers could handle the green sheet borders I never needed the real ones any more, but like the original Character Sheets I kept them anyway.
Didn't 3rd have a package of class based ones?
WotC is getting pretty cheap to charge for 2 landscape sheets and a page of cards for $10, because the other sheet is free online, and in the back of the DMG too wasn't it?
I bet the power cards are even in color so you can't even photocopy them either eh?
Do the power cards have backs?
Sounds like total crap! At least I got a good amount of character sheets out of the 3.5 character folio.
Well, I finally made the right choice to wait, incredibly happy I got the 4th Ed Core books.. so far I haven't been burned yet. :D
EK
WOTC, if you were my girlfriend, I'd dump you. And my wife would probably punch you. Then punch me for giving you money.
Zing!
I don't even use the WotC sheets. They suck ... a lot ... like wow do they suck. Actually, had the char sheets been the same as the monster stat block - then we'd be cooking on gas.
Do the power cards have backs?
Yes, they are color on both sides.
These things better be on vellum parchment and be able to fill themselves in for you!
are the 2 portrait ones the ones that wizard makes available for free ?
and the landscape ones are sideways kinda like the picture posted previously?
I have a question about the character sheets they come with 4 two-sided character sheets... 2 portrait, 2 landscape
are the 2 portrait ones the ones that wizard makes available for free ?
and the landscape ones are sideways kinda like the picture posted previously?
Basically, yes.
So, if this product is intended for each player to buy to use for one or two characters, is it worth it? In my opinion the answer is no, but many people might like the color power cards. I have actually adopted what WotC did with the sample characters from Keep on the Shadowfell (with some alterations). I use the free downloadable character sheet to list everything the character has, then I type up a 'combat sheet.' It has all the powers, feats, abilities, attacks, and skills that are useful in combat. I have included all bonuses so I don't have to calculate anything.
My problem with this so far: having to update it each level. It's pretty cheap for me, though, since I have a laser printer.
Didn't 3rd have a package of class based ones?
Deluxe Character Sheets from 3.5 had a folding sheet (4 pages) for each class and spell list pages. My only complaint with those is some them have spell lists from different classes squeezed together instead of an individual sheet for each class spell list.
They are printed on normal officepaper (80g) and some of them are already broken (have edjes bend over, ...)
I expected something like 3.5edition. Special character sheets for each class. But that’s plain fraud!
I just received the charactersheets and I'm really mad.
They are printed on normal officepaper (80g) and some of them are already broken (have edjes bend over, ...)
I expected something like 3.5edition. Special character sheets for each class. But that’s plain fraud!
It's not fraud. It cleary states on the product page (and I will assume on the back cover) that the character sheets support all classes and levels. Sorry you didn't know what you were buying.
- Instead of marketing it as "Character Sheets", they could have made it a "Character Folio", something akin to a DM Screen, but for individual PCs. Focus it on per-PC usage rather than per-consumer usage.
- Increase the number of character sheets a bit. Make the buyer feel they can at least get through the 30 levels, moving to a new sheet ever few levels when the current one gets unusable. 10 or 12 sheets would do.
- Forget the CS that's available on the website. Use the pages to give us a great CS. I'd rather have 10 landscape sheets than 5 portrait/5 landscape.
- Use all that frackin' blank space all over the folder as utility space: a space to tape or glue or sketch a picture of the character; a few more quick reference tables from the PHB like the XP table (cuurency exchange, armor, conditions, etc.); character-specific details that don't really change over time, and don't necessarily need to waste space on a standard character sheet (personality traits, mannerisms, background). It's just ink, make it useful.
Color sheets would have been nice, but I'm trying to keep the suggestions down to those that keep the cost down, allow WOTC to have virtually the same profit margin, and make me feel like it was worth $10. Not only that, but if they had approached it like this, as a per-Character "folio", then I might be tempted to buy one for each of my characters over time. As it stands now, I have a cute little $10 D&D folder I've bought once, and I'll just use it to store copies of the better fan-made CSs out there.
EDIT: For the sake of comparison, check out the features and reviews for Player Character Sheets released in 2004 (link to Amazon)
I run a group of mostly newbies. I have printed out one sheet of for the whole party listing types of combat actions characters can take, such as a charge, assiting another, delaying, as well as the order of combat and such. That could have been added to the character portfolio.
Another nice thing would have been to add the combat cards that appear at the back of the DMG. Scanning/photocopying that page is a pain because it doesn't lay flat (and I don't want to ruin my book before its time) and I am definitely not cutting it out.
So that's my take on the subject. I'll create my own (until my players are confident enough to create their own).
Thanks,
I guess this saves me some money towards D&DI
rooster
However, it is not worth the 9.95 + tax. Ten sheets and twice the cards, maybe. As far as char sheets go I will stick with my 'non calculating' excel sheet.
Bel
The sad thing is that the production values and content of the other 4e stuff is really good. I feel that (with the possible exception of the DMG, which is excellent, but MUCH thinner than the other books) that WOTC produced some really good stuff for 4e, and then they roll out this ripoff. It's really a shame, as it's going to lead people to suspect the other stuff of being subpar too, while those books are in fact excellent.
Doesn't Wizards realize that the brand perception matters? You can't crank out occasional tripe without everything being suspect.
I'm almost afraid to ask about the "premium" dice set.
It's hard to believe it came out on the same day, from the same company, as "Thunderspire Labyrinth". Twice the price, 10x the quality.
Frankly, the EMA char sheets are fantastic; the WotC ones are cluttered like ... well they suck.
EMA has 4e sheets? Awesome, I have no idea why I never thought to check, but that's great news. :D
That is, until somebody pointed out above that in order for it to qualify as 32 pages of information, they had to count the blank inside of the cover which pushes this over the line into totally bogus ripoff-land.
The whopping four character sheets, however? No.
Coincidentally, I did notice that WotC changed the official product page to have a page count of 12. :P
Coincidentally, I did notice that WotC changed the official product page to have a page count of 12. :P
Oh no! They're watching me! Now I'm going to be on a blacklist and forced to re-login everytime I visit the forums... oh, wait...
I was hoping for something like the 3rd Edition character-specific sheets. Now I have to cancel my pre-order on the screen and wait to see what others say about it.
I just got my character sheets in the mail, and I am very disappointed in WoTC.
I was hoping for something like the 3rd Edition character-specific sheets. Now I have to cancel my pre-order on the screen and wait to see what others say about it.
They are already saying it is outdated because it will not contain any of the latest errata. Find the thread in this very forum.
The cover is useless as it falls off as soon as you take off the shrink wrap. Its nice they put the "permission to copy for personal use" on the character shet, but that isnt anywhere else, so some big Copy chains will probably give you grief about putting the cards on a good card stock, and I have no idea what the expense might be for that.
I'll be putting a negative review about these on Amazon as well. In my fantasy world, I hope they sell so few of them that they take a loss and it forces someone over there to pull their head out.
I like 4E. Products like these, however, are why I have very little respect for the company that publishes it.
rooster
I was not impressed at all.
Do they expect anyone who knows what to expect to actually buy these?
Do they expect anyone who buys them, not knowing what to expect, to be happy about it?
Four sheets? As in, one less than the default party size?!? And with no value-added compared to the ones available for free online, apart from a version with the exact same information in landscape?
Do they expect anyone who knows what to expect to actually buy these?
Do they expect anyone who buys them, not knowing what to expect, to be happy about it?
1. Yes only 4 sheets it seems. 2 of two different formats.
2. One format is not available online, and you get enough power cards for a SINGLE player to use if you reuse them as powers are swapped out/retrained.
3. & 4.
Yes as was with LW, this product is designed for making money off of the worthless gamers, because they are subhumans so taking the money from these simps for nothing of equal value is only right. So many when these wretched gamer type people have no money left they will die off and the world will be a better place where BR can return and people revel and bask in its glory.
Sorry, but I am strongly seeing the LW attitude in the pricing model of some things currently being sold and thinking that gamers are stupid enough to fall for the hype because they all just have so much disposable income that something like this product is just a drop in the bucket for all the Rockefeller gamers out there.
The portal can be found at http://dnd4th.com/download.htm.
Enjoy !
(stuff)
Might I suggest looking up the phrase "rhetorical question"? <--- Rhetorical question
Also, what the hell is "LW"? <--- Not a rhetorical question
Of course, it sounds like a few people bought them. I am not sure which is more confusing.
So you MUST copy the cards to use them in the first place, otherwise you will have to flip the cards over to try to find the power you need.
These things better be on vellum parchment and be able to fill themselves in for you!
"Seriously... Hellmute... I've seen you say some really intelligent things, and some REALLY stupid things, but honestly? It's 10 freakin' bucks! TEN! These mind-numbing over-exaggerations need to stop."
"Caveat Emptor... If you don't know what you're buying, don't buy it, or pay the price... If you don't like it, you don't have to pay for it... YES! YOU CAN GET FREE CARDS AND SHEETS! Is WotC undoing your ability to do so? NO! Instead of blowing things out of proportion, just tell people what to expect and walk away."
"If WotC suffers a small loss, too bad for them, whatev... Personally, as long as I can make copies of the cards for my group to use, then I am completely happy with the money I spent. Maybe I just want mine to look all pretty and official... If you don't... DON'T PAY FOR THEM!"
Either way if the cards have backs then if you ONLY get enough for one player, you would NEED to copy then to have one of each card without flipping them over.
This is something very easy to see. Why flip the cards at all?
AS the post I was responding to said both sides of the cards ARE color, so either you know exactly what to put on the cards and organize them so you never need to flip them, or take the time to flip them, or make copies to never have to worry about looking at the back of the card to find the right power.
Ergo, one power one card. You can then flip a card over as suggested when the card were first discussed (notice WotC did not say to "tap" the card as this would violate MtG copyrights) to denote that the power has been used.
So having powers on the backs of each other would require another less simple method of denoting used powers.
It is all quite simple really.
The "tap" was meant as a joke. Most people would more likely just stack cards turned over than try to take up space like having sideways cards all over a table. You do have character sheets to need room for afterall unlike a CCG.
The folder I like, it looks nice and is of a decent weight. The biggest change I would make to it is to include a pocket of some sort to hold the power cards once they've been separated.
The character sheets themselves I'm unimpressed with. I don't like having the Powers on the back, since the information is referenced so often. Using power cards might change that preference, however.
And I really don't have an opinion on the landscape versions, since I haven't been very interested in the concept. I understand keeping them in the standard letter size, though. 8.5"x14" or even 11"x17" would require folds in the sheets which usually make things more awkward in the end.
Definitely needed more of them in the package. Four in total is far too few.
The power cards look nice, and could become very useful. 8 At-will, 12 Encounter & Daily, and 16 Utility & Magic Item cards seems right for a single PC's career. There aren't a lot of "extra" cards for 30 levels, true. Copying them will likely be a bear, especially since they're full-color double-sided sheets. Good for folks that can write well, and fine-sized, but difficult for others to use.
Now for a few suggestions...
A package of 5 folders, with different artwork on each. Add the pocket for power cards, and I think these could be popular. Keep the price under $10, and you could justify having one for each PC of a standard party.
Make the character sheets interface cleanly with the Character Creator from D&Di, or at the VERY least give us more of them. 10 of each type at a minimum, please.
Put the power cards on a standard letter-sized format that also interfaces with the Character Creator. Doing this would let folks print their powers directly, creating a nice neat end product. As they are now, some printers might not care for the odd size.
Bundling them could be interesting, so I think getting the community's feedback would be necessary. Would it be best to bundle them in groups similar to the current set, for an individual PC's career, or would bundling them by type be best? I favor the per-PC approach, myself.
I guess, in the end, the 'Character Folio' idea is what I would have preferred, and think will do better in the end.
I would value the set more around $6.95 though.
The cards are really nice. And if you think about it, you would pay $3 per booster of M:TG which is 15 cards... this contains around 25-ish cards, a decent looking folder, and 2 sets of character sheets (which honestly aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
All in all, if you aren't ridiculously frugal and like the way your stuff looks and the quality of production.. then I would suggest it simply for the power cards. I have yet to see a third party solution that looks half as good as these.
Not to mention finding a decent card stock that I don't have to hand cut.
Yea, I'm lazy... which is why I have money to spend on things I don't feel like doing.
I like the folder. Sure it's just a folder, but would I pay, say 3 bucks for a folder with Wayne Reynolds art? Yes.
The power cards are nice. They are cardstock, color, with nice backs that identify the type (magic, utility, encounter, etc.) There seemed to be some confusion on that count; you can flip the card over to easily identify that it's been used. By my count, there are enough cards for two characters to go to 30, and three or four to start out. You'd probably run out of magic item cards, but I'm not sure. 4e seems to greatly reduce the number of magic items handed out.
Retail character sheets have been obsolete for at least 10 years, I don't see how these package is any more or less so.