I've noticed that many of the retailers offer Dungeons and Dragons 4E stuff through their websites such as www.walmart.com Since the essentials line will begin with the "red box", which is a relatively low-priced, simple-to-learn, complete intro-system, do you think that places such as Wal-Mart or Toys-R-Us or Target will carry this item in their retail stores? Or do you think their is still too much controversy surrounding the game for them to make that leap? Thoughts...
Well, they sell heroscape and the heroscape booster packs. Don't see why not.
Of course, if Wizards really wanted to sell in Wal-Mart, they could bundle the Red Box with a copy of Sarah Palin's Going Rogue...
LOL
Unfortunately, D&D's old "Satanic cult" stigma will likely keep it out of Wal-World. They depend too heavily on Bible-belt sales to rock the boat by carrying something controversial. Toys-R-Us carried D&D in the past, but cut back with slipping sales and their own need to reduce overhead. Target might.
Of course, if Wizards really wanted to sell in Wal-Mart, they could bundle the Red Box with a copy of Sarah Palin's Going Rogue...
LOL
That's pretty funny!
So is D&D really still a hot-button topic these days? The only strong reaction I've seen recently is from a friend's wife. When my buddy's son announced that he wanted to play D&D she gave a very terse "No, absolutely not." Mostly people that I know just aren't really familiar with it. Do you guys hear much controversy these days?
I've noticed that many of the retailers offer Dungeons and Dragons 4E stuff through their websites such as www.walmart.com Since the essentials line will begin with the "red box", which is a relatively low-priced, simple-to-learn, complete intro-system, do you think that places such as Wal-Mart or Toys-R-Us or Target will carry this item in their retail stores? Or do you think their is still too much controversy surrounding the game for them to make that leap? Thoughts...
Well, they sell heroscape and the heroscape booster packs. Don't see why not.
I was not aware of that.
Unfortunately, D&D's old "Satanic cult" stigma will likely keep it out of Wal-World. They depend too heavily on Bible-belt sales to rock the boat by carrying something controversial. Toys-R-Us carried D&D in the past, but cut back with slipping sales and their own need to reduce overhead. Target might.
Of course, if Wizards really wanted to sell in Wal-Mart, they could bundle the Red Box with a copy of Sarah Palin's Going Rogue...
LOL
That's pretty funny!
So is D&D really still a hot-button topic these days? The only strong reaction I've seen recently is from a friend's wife. When my buddy's son announced that he wanted to play D&D she gave a very terse "No, absolutely not." Mostly people that I know just aren't really familiar with it. Do you guys hear much controversy these days?
My mother in law was kind of surprised that I played D&D. She seemed to have an uneducated version of the old "satanic worship/killing stuff for real" viewpoint that was blown out of porportion by the media back in the 70's/80's. I told her that its not alot different from playing a video game through words and dice rolls. She seemed to understand it a lot better after I told her about it. Also seemed relieved that the horror stories she used to hear were really media/zealotry propoganda.
Funny thing is my dad used to play it back when it was chainmail(still has RPG rulebooks from the mid 70s) and he had us in church every Sunday. He was the first to teach me that the vocal minority does not represent anything for which it tries to speak for. It was a good lesson and it can be applied universally.
I've noticed that many of the retailers offer Dungeons and Dragons 4E stuff through their websites such as www.walmart.com Since the essentials line will begin with the "red box", which is a relatively low-priced, simple-to-learn, complete intro-system, do you think that places such as Wal-Mart or Toys-R-Us or Target will carry this item in their retail stores? Or do you think their is still too much controversy surrounding the game for them to make that leap? Thoughts...
No, I don't. Those stores don't sell D&D rpg books, or any RPG books. You might find the board games, but you will probably never see the RPG books. I'v only seen D&D novels at walmart and target. I'v never even seen any of those stores carry the old D&D board games, although a friend claims he bought his original D&D board game from toys r us.
The new heroscape D&D games and the new 4e board games will probably be sold at those stores, but that's it. For the RPG books, go to an actual gamestore, a borders or barns and noble. Or another store that carries that stuff.
Walmart carries Grand Theft Auto video games and Forgetting Sarah Marshall DVDs. Nothing against these items -- but most parents would find these to be far more objectionable than D&D.
I agree.
I've noticed that many of the retailers offer Dungeons and Dragons 4E stuff through their websites such as www.walmart.com Since the essentials line will begin with the "red box", which is a relatively low-priced, simple-to-learn, complete intro-system, do you think that places such as Wal-Mart or Toys-R-Us or Target will carry this item in their retail stores? Or do you think their is still too much controversy surrounding the game for them to make that leap? Thoughts...
I know Toys'R'Us sold the 3.5 starter set as late as three years ago, so I don't see the issue now.
As for controversy, my mom was a little off-kilter when she found out, and was still off-kilter for a while after-wards, but after watching me game once or twice at home she didn't care much.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsmcDLDw9iw
'Shrink'. Interesting.
I guess lots of people want to play D&D but cant afford to?
I'v never even seen any of those stores carry the old D&D board games, although a friend claims he bought his original D&D board game from toys r us.
I'd say your friend is telling the truth, depending on when it was. Waaaay back in the day, Toys R Us and KB Toys used to carry adventure modules and some accessories in a magazine-style tiered rack.
My mom, on the otherhand, said that she read through the PHB when I wasn't at home. She was impressed with the language, and concluded it could only be a good thing I was reading such smart books.
Go mom.
When my mother in Law found out I was a hard core D&D player she flipped. She really thought I would A) worship satan B) Kill my wife and son. Bizarre. The religious zealots of the early 80's sure were effective if these kinds of myths persist.
How did I convince her it wasnt' true? I went to youtube and showed her the Robot Chicken Plays D&D videos. That series is solid gold for training new players and convincing mothers in law that I don't try to cast spells.
As far as the controversy being around, I've had, of all things, a shuttle-bus driver try to warn me of the dangers. I basically just nodded my head and stopped talking to him.
My mom, on the otherhand, said that she read through the PHB when I wasn't at home. She was impressed with the language, and concluded it could only be a good thing I was reading such smart books.
Go mom.
It's amazing how much of the hysteria could've been eliminated with this thoughtful approach.....Go mom indeed
I would think the bigger concern is theft. Barnes and Noble and Borders both rank RPG related stuff as some of their highest shrink categories. Walmart has higher shrink in general, so it's possible they would avoid a high-shrink item.
That is a really interesting point that I hadn't considered. Every time I think about shoplifting I replay the scene from High Fidelity in my head when the skater-kids steal the Joni Mitchell among other strange random things.
On a non-related related note: why do you think that they didn't do the Essentials stuff earlier on? Was the Starter Set supposed to function like the Red-Box but was thought to not be complete enough because of the lack of character creation rules?
I actually have the Starter set and enjoy using the Dungeon Master Booklet at the table as a quick rules reference.
D&D is a game where players imagine and create entire worlds. Entire universes. I think the greatest benefit D&D offers is, it helps people realize how people can recreate their own reality. If a current reallife reality is unjust, then these people can imagine a different way that reality can be. An alternative reality that is more just. With this insight, these people can work to make the world an even better place.
People that believe whatever 'is' is the way it 'should' be, are unable to make the world a better place. They simply do what they are told, and repeat the same old injustices.
But D&D players tend to believe differently. They know the world can be different. They can make the world the way it 'should' be. Better. More just.
Its a truism. People who value education also value D&D. People who dont value education, fear D&D.
D&D is a game where players imagine and create entire worlds. Entire universes. I think the greatest benefit D&D offers is, it helps people realize how people can recreate their own reality. If a current reallife reality is unjust, then these people can imagine a different way that reality can be. An alternative reality that is more just. With this insight, these people can work to make the world an even better place.
People that believe whatever 'is' is the way it 'should' be, are unable to make the world a better place. They simply do what they are told, and repeat the same old injustices.
But D&D players tend to believe differently. They know the world can be different. They can make the world the way it 'should' be. Better. More just.
Some would argue that's exactly what makes D&D dangerous. Someone with issues with distinguishing reality from fantasy can take a roleplaying game too far, and start to lose touch.
Obviously, theres a difference between the way the world 'is' and the way the world 'should' be.
Imagining how the world 'should' be, isnt the same thing as thinking it 'is' already that way.
You need to have a vision of how the world 'should' be. But it takes effort to make it that way.
I guess lots of people want to play D&D but cant afford to?
I would say it's more that lots of people want to play but they don't want to pay for it. It would seem to be a good target for the younger crowd who is more prone to shoplifting. This is why many of the game stores and comic stores in my area have alarms at the doors to stop shoplifting. (and it's a very low crime area)
LOL! Elitist!
I say, the more the merrier!
D&D is a national passtime. Why not let as many people enjoy it as possible?
If Im not mistaken, Wal-Mart and Target already carry MagicTheGathering?
Arax: "It just doesn't seem right to think of that stuff being in a Wal-Mart or a Target."
LOL! Elitist!
I say, the more the merrier!
D&D is a national passtime. Why not let as many people enjoy it as possible?
If Im not mistaken, Wal-Mart and Target already carry MagicTheGathering?
Elitist? No. I say what I said because I'd rather see local hobby, comic, and book stores flourish over the retail chain stores who could care less. Local comic, hobby , and book stores at least give people a chance to see people actually playing the game and a chance to participate and discuss things. Stores like Wal-Mart and Target aren't exactly able to provide such a hang out spot like that.
Arax: "It just doesn't seem right to think of that stuff being in a Wal-Mart or a Target."
LOL! Elitist!
I say, the more the merrier!
D&D is a national passtime. Why not let as many people enjoy it as possible?
If Im not mistaken, Wal-Mart and Target already carry MagicTheGathering?
Elitist? No. I say what I said because I'd rather see local hobby, comic, and book stores flourish over the retail chain stores who could care less. Local comic, hobby , and book stores at least give people a chance to see people actually playing the game and a chance to participate and discuss things. Stores like Wal-Mart and Target aren't exactly able to provide such a hang out spot like that.
I have to disagree with this in part. Many people are never going to make it to a FLGS without some sort of Gateway product. I agree with you about having the FLGS flourish without the competition of a corporation like Wal-Mart, however; something like the Red-Box would be the perfect product to attract new gamers that would never have a chance to meet the game otherwise and would potentially increase the demographic of local hobby stores when people outgrow the box set.
My grandfather, on the other hand, still tries to preach to me about how 'bad' it is to play, and refuses to listen to anything about it, or read some of the books. Oh well, can't win em all.
to the OP: I would personally prefer to not have the books at wal-mart and the like, simply because I prefer to give my money to smaller, local chains or independent businesses.
On the topic of the stigma the game has still I think there's less an issue with a few crazy zealots out there talking nonsense about Satan workship than the stronger label that players are or become socially backward geeks with no life outside the game when they play it. For some reason, other RPGs and video games for sure are more mainstream and players aren't seen as weird compared to if you play D&D. I think better branding and marketing will help there. Let's see Hasbro put out the D&D clothes, beach towels, backpacks, etc. and have those sold a few aisles over at the big box store from where the basic game is played. And they need a real education campaign to get it into people's heads what the game really is.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good FLGS. But a lot of the FLGSes out there need to adapt to the new environment or they're going to go out of business. They can whine about Walmart if they want (or the Internet even more so) but it doesn't change the situation. They need to be specialists that know everything about the hobby. They need to have an online element of their own and provide the best service possible. They need better store hours. They need in store demos and events. They need programs that reward customer loyalty with discounts or special items. They need to locate their stores in bright, safe, convenient shopping centers near those big box stores. They need employees who are polite, friendly, hard working, knowledgeable and hygienic. Is any of this easy? No. Is any of this quick to change? No. I want to see more FLGSes out there myself. I really enjoy shopping in a good game store. But for large purchases or even regular purchases of common products it can be really hard to be inconvenienced to go out of the way to the FLGS only to pay full price for a product I can get at a big book chain or online retailer for considerably less money. When I say all this I am coming from being a gamer for 30 years now. I can't imagine many people getting into the hobby these days if they don't get exposure to it through mainstream retailers. They certainly won't if they encounter an FLGS if the GS isn't very F or L.
As a side note, in the early 80s I bought a lot of my D&D/AD&D stuff at Toys R Us. As was mentioned they had a pretty big display rack with the various core books and modules back then. I think I got both my Deities and Demigods and Fiend Folio for about $8 each.
L
I do have a Barnes and Noble discount card that I could use to get 20% off new books and of course Amazon is only a few mouse-clicks away. However, I try to visit my FLGS once or twice a week and make most of my gaming purchases there--even when I just come into browse I will buy some dice out of the fish-tank or pick up an old module for a few bucks because I really want them to do well.
Like you mentioned above about adapting to a new environment, they just really don't seem to "get it." Picture this: You walk in and the first thing that you see is an "island" of show-cases in the center of the room arranged in a rectangle and on the inside of the island is at-least 4 staff members ready to greet you....except they don't. Usually if I can get a single mumbled "how's it goin'?" I'm lucky.
Most of the time they're discussing new obscure products (or obscure to me) or re-hashing gaming sessions from the weekend. I've grown accustomed to the fact I won't be asked if I'm looking for something in particular today, let alone being offered any personal dialogue such as "what did you think of that Monstrous Manual you got last week? Do you play much 2nd edition?"
Attempting to interrupt their pow-wow is worse because I get the not-so-well-disguised heavy-exhale of having to deal with one of those pesky-customers. Clerks was a great movie, but the Death Star-contractor-debate isn't all that funny when you're the customer being ignored.
My point is that the FLGS shouldn't feel entitled to succeed and have your business JUST BECAUSE they're the FLGS. Hopefully the stores that you all have in your area take better care of you and have a better business model--we have two and it's the same story at both places. My point is that I don't think you should have to be an insider and constantly hang out there for them to offer basic customer service.
Legendarius, you are right in that if they want the business and want to be a specialist and have the right to carry the products then they have to adapt and begin to change the way they do things.