While this could be a preview of a paragon path or some other game mechanic, it seems very strange that the other previews are three of the four core Essentials classes, and the "Knight" preview just happens to appear during the third week. So, is this a typo, a paragon path or theme, or is this the big, rumored news item that's supposed to be dropping soon?
What do you think, and what would be your opinion if Wizards were indeed renaming the fighter to the knight?
And more importantly, that's a fascinating thing. I would like it to mean that we're going to see a Knight class. Perhaps another martial defender who enforces his mark by shouting his enemies down. I mean, in 3.5 there was a Knight class added in the Player's Handbook II, among others. It's not unprecedented.
I hope it's a new class. It'd give some appeal to these Essentials books. I don't see why it'd be presented just like the others if it wasn't the same thing -- showing off a class.
To rename the class would be kind of silly, as much of the fighter class really isn't knightly, and would confusing to players who try to expand into the rest of 4th edition. The essentials are also supposed to have the errata and such built in, and new builds, it is not supposed to radicly change things in the game.
The other thread on these forums already had people arguing over whether a knight is better as a fighter, paladin, or warlord. This makes it one of those things that would be better done as a theme, granting any class that took it more mounted capabilites. This would prevent them from needing to figure out a mounted build thats somehow different for each class.
Think of DL you could have Wizards of X order etc or Solamnic Knight etc.
Makes me wonder if we wont see Racial Themes at some point as well.
Makes me wonder if we wont see Racial Themes at some point as well.
The funny thing is that I had thought that this sort of thing was what they were going for. Back when 4e wasn't even out yet, there was plenty of talk, and one of the things that was said was that there were going to be options to expand on your race, though you didn't have to take them. The vagueness of that phrase gave me the impression of anything other than racial feats. We already had racial feats. I thought that we'd have the option to take racial stuff in replacement of class stuff, which themes sorta do, right?
I thought that we'd have the option to take racial stuff in replacement of class stuff, which themes sorta do, right?
That was the original intent, but it got dropped at some point during development of PHB1, resulting in just the racial feats. Ever since then it's been slowly creeping back in in the form of racial PPs and EDs. Racial Themes may be the next step.
The funny thing is that I had thought that this sort of thing was what they were going for. Back when 4e wasn't even out yet, there was plenty of talk, and one of the things that was said was that there were going to be options to expand on your race, though you didn't have to take them. The vagueness of that phrase gave me the impression of anything other than racial feats. We already had racial feats. I thought that we'd have the option to take racial stuff in replacement of class stuff, which themes sorta do, right?
As memory serves, originally your race was going to be the heroic tier "paragon path". I forgot the reason that they dropped it. It might have been they felt that there was character bloat by doing it. I don't really remember too well though. *shrugs*
The other Ampersand: Essentials previews don't have a build name attached to them. Unless it's a Wizards screw-up (granted, they're known to make mistakes on the calendar every so often), I would presume it's not a class.
That said, what is it? It can't be a Paragon Path, because we're looking at previews of the Red Box here, right? Unless these are the Heroes of the Fallen Lands preview that Bill Slavicsek was talking about. If that's the case, it could potentially be a Paragon Path.
Could it be a Character Theme, like in Dark Sun? We know that Warlords, Rangers, Fighters, Paladins, Wardens, Battleminds, Ardents and more could also qualify as calling themselves "knights." But how many of these classes are appearing in any Essentials products?
The Cleric, the Fighter, the Rogue, and the Wizard make appearances in the Red Box.
The Cleric, the Fighter, the Ranger, the Rogue, and the Wizard make appearances in Heroes of the Fallen Lands.
The Cleric, the Druid, the Paladin, the Ranger, and the Warlock make appearances in Heroes of Forgotten Kingdoms.
That means only the Fighter could take advantage of the theme in the Red Box, and maybe POSSIBLY the Cleric; the Ranger might also take advantage of it in HotFL if these are previews for that book, and the Paladin would be added with HotFK – though that still seems like it's pushing it.
I still think the best bet to say is that these Ampersand previews are for Heroes of the Fallen Lands, and this is a Fighter Paragon Path.
I think the progressive racial bonuses were dropped because it pigeonholed races into certain classes/roles. You can only give some much general support. Note that most racial PP's generally tend to favor one roll over another, or are explicity (Race with X class/role)
It'd be nice if someone from WOTC could write in plain English what the Essentials were meant to be.
I think the progressive racial bonuses were dropped because it pigeonholed races into certain classes/roles. You can only give some much general support. Note that most racial PP's generally tend to favor one roll over another, or are explicity (Race with X class/role)
Right. And now if you add racial themes as a possibility, you can take a non-racial theme if the racial theme doesn't fit you. And I've no problem with racial themes "pigeon-holing." A half-orc theme should be a melee bruiser theme. So if you play a half-orc barbarian, it really works for you. If you're playing a half-orc wizard, then you're playing against the race's norm, so you really shouldn't be taking a racial theme anyway. So take some other theme. Perfect!
As for the knight, as a King Arthur nut, I've been excited about seeing mechanics, but I hope it isn't it's own class, or class specific. I would want knightly orders to be available to a number of characters, warlords, fighters, paladins, battleminds, swordmages, possibly wardens, barbarians, and rangers too.
What do people think is the one essential quality that they should use to make a knight a knight?
1) A code of honor
2) Mounted combat
3) Heavy Armor
4) Troop commander
5) Courtly/noble background
Why would we need previews of the Cleric, Rogue and whatever, when those classes already exist?
It'd be nice if someone from WOTC could write in plain English what the Essentials were meant to be.
Actually, in their recent articles for this months Dungeon/Dragon they were pretty straight forward with what the books would be about.
Also, it's been know for some time that the "Heroes" books would contain new builds for the more popular classes. There will be new content in the essentials line in these books as well as possibly future soft cover books with more player options (like next March's Heroes of Shadow).
The Essentials line is a stream lined method of aquiring core material for both DMs and players alike and with some added bonuses (ie the Heroes of Fallen Lands, etc) for us players who may not be so inclined to re-pruchase just the core books. It's a pretty sound economic decision in terms of both getting new people into the game, as well as making the material somewhat viable for the D&D players who have everything.
I believe, that this initial launch of the Essentials line is an experiment in production and distribution, and so far I'm liking it. I hope it succeeds where some other ideas (such as the Player Hand Book Heroes minis) have not. D&D needs to become more popular if it was to survive this economic downturn and I think this is a great idea.
Why would we need previews of the Cleric, Rogue and whatever, when those classes already exist?
It'd be nice if someone from WOTC could write in plain English what the Essentials were meant to be.
But that would ruin the surprise…
These are almost certainly new builds.
3) Heavy Armor
4) Troop commander
Those two are covered by a warlord PP, Knight Commander
3) Heavy Armor
4) Troop commander
Those two are covered by a warlord PP, Knight Commander
Or, for that matter, the Warlord himself.
I doubt they'll ever create a class with a codified personality again (aka a 'code of honor' of any sort), since it worked out so poorly in previous editions. The noble/courtly background is also questionable simply because sometimes someone can get knighted for deeds, not just because he has an influential family.
So I'm left with thinking this will be some kind of mounted combat build.
So I'm left with thinking this will be some kind of mounted combat build.
If it's a build, I think it's more likely to be the controller-y shouting-down-enemies sort of build . Although, mounts have been sitting in the realm of niche combat factors for a long time, maybe Essentials is exactly where it could get some real focus.
Other classes can also benefit from such a Knight theme, such as the Swordmage for an 'Eldritch Knight' flavor (hopefuly this will become future Int-Dex Swordmage build especially suitable for Eladrin) who then ride on dragons, flying magic beasts, or phantasmal horses. With Dex as the auxillary ability, these aerial Swordmages would be especially good at ranged combat (by partially teleporting the sword edge for distant attacks), as well as acrobatic leaps.
Yeah exactly. These other classes may be less common choices, but a theme mechanic can customize some really cool concepts.
Swordmage Knight = Eldritch Knight
Assassin Knight = Black Knight
Druid Knight = Green Knight
Wizard Knight = Eragon
Rogue Knight = all kinds of scoundrel, or the horseback cultures of Eurasia, or Batman, or so on
Invoker Knight = truly angelic
Monk Knight = huh.
I just can't see them including themes in Essentials. The term 'essential' seems to preclude added-on game elements such as backgrounds and themes.
Unless these are now a part of what "core" 4E is. Dark Sun will be introducing it in their own books, but I don't see why we couldn't have core world themes as well for most settings outside of that.
Countdown to Essentials: We decided to embrace something similar to the old sub-class concept from bygone editions. The classes presented in Essentials are different takes on existing classes.
May well be, 'Knight' is the new name for the Fighter build or rather 'sub-class'. Essentials simplifies the mechanics of its class builds by removing Daily powers and beefing up Encounter powers.