| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1DragonOfLightOct 21, 2008 19:08:21 | D&D Miniatures Announcement Three cheers for WotC!!! This is exactly what I wanted from the miniatures and it's what I'm getting. :bounce: |
| #2edowningOct 21, 2008 19:16:41 | This is the greatest news since sliced cheese, bread, and cheese again! I love the fact that players of the RPG are now looked down upon from the Wizard gods up there acknowledging that "we need some miniatures for our RPG and not for the miniature game alone"...with little to no randomness. It was extremely expensive to find all of the minis you needed to complete your campaign that you might have been running at the time. Damn fine job Wizards and for those that have complained about it in the past! Damn fine job!!! Now to my crying infant...whom really digs the idea as well! Cheers, Eric |
| #3The_JesterOct 21, 2008 19:54:50 | Yaaayyyy!!! This is great news. No more scowering boxes for PCs or particular monsters. No more going to Paizo or eBay first for that must-have figure. The 5-mini monster box might be a tad small and pricey ($15!?! I used to be able to get 8 minis for that exact same price!!) but it's a step in the right direction. Hopefully, since each mini is going to be pricey, they'll splurge on the paint a bit more and up the quality. It's been sliding downhill for a while. |
| #4BombergOct 22, 2008 4:30:30 | The 5-mini monster box might be a tad small and pricey ($15!?! I used to be able to get 8 minis for that exact same price!!) but it's a step in the right direction. But this is a 37.5% price increase for being able to see one mini! Ouch!!! This might work for special minis. If I'm looking for an exotic bugger and being lucky enough to spot such a pack at my games shop, I'm a happy camper. But hey, how often does this occur? If they have to sell randomized minis, why not going for theme packs, like a box of random orcs? Huldvoll Baron von Bomberg |
| #5_Mithreinmaethor_Oct 22, 2008 5:25:32 | The PC one is a good price for me. But the monsters are a bit pricey though. So I do hope that they increase the quality of the minis to make up for that price increase. |
| #6GrimcleaverOct 22, 2008 6:04:57 | Great news. I really do approve of the new format for the minis. Cool stuff. I like the idea that pretty much each class race combo will have at least one mini (hopefully two--one male, one female). Granted I'm not much of a minatures user. I only crack them out for World D&D Day for the most part, or to represent a particularly beloved character. Mostly I'm looking to support it for the power cards, and to hopefully give some financial momentum to my hope for full sets of them in the future (or at least to get a look at them to see if I want to support them making more, or not). |
| #7sebastrdOct 22, 2008 10:27:22 | Although it's nice to see that we'll finally get non-random minis, the pricing is highway robbery. $10.99 for the 3-pack and $14.99 for a 5-pack is triple what I'd be willing to pay for regular-size minis. |
| #8The_JesterOct 22, 2008 10:56:36 | But this is a 37.5% price increase for being able to see one mini! Ouch!!! In theory, they're almost losing money with the commons (as there are so many) and barely making money with uncommons. It's the rares that people like and buy five or six boxes for. They make their money on the volume. People buy extra boxes knowing they'll get doubles in the hopes of that must-have monster. This way people will be able to look for the must-have (although you can bet the visible monster will be common or uncommon) and still have the mystery that will keep you coming back for more boxes (for missing rares). Thankfully, they're also reducing the number of monsters needed for a complete set (down from 60). Although, when you add the heroes, the set number still jumps to 58. So while you used to be able to get a full set with 23 boxes (assuming no double rares) you might be able to get a full set of the new run in 15 or 20 boxes (or less if the visible figure is rare netting you two per box). See, the problem is D&D Minis are trying to serve two masters. There's the RPGers who need mini X for their game, need PCs, and need hordes of minions. Then there are the Mini game players who want randomized minis for their game but also want rare figures not everyone will have. So wholly non-randomized boxes don't work because they don't work with the mini game or devalue their collective pieces. But it's been long document and mocked that the randomized boxes don't serve the needs of the role-players. This gets further complicated with the needs of the D&D mini game which has simple rules which made some figures impossible (most aquatic figures, the rust monster, etc) so they were omitted from the game. And there's still only 2 or 3 dragonborn minis been released that are always sold out or cost a fortune. And all are big metalic characters making dragonborn rogues or wizards or warlocks odd. Heck, even with the un-randomized hero boxes it'll be hard to get just the right martial hero. I'm sure a dragonborn will be in martial but will there be one in divine and primal? Will all have a dwarf? Will all have a halfling? A tiefling? And you can bet the non-standard but suddenly Core races (Deva, Goliath, Shifter, etc) will be under-represented for a long time. If WotC was really just interested in serving the RPGers we'd see the big themed monster backs (orc warband, ogre pack, troll group, etc). Especially with the mini rules it makes collecting some of these, especially the uncommons, difficult. I've been collecting sing harbringer and have thousands of minis yet I only have maybe 3 ogres and 2 trolls. But people would only buy that box one, maybe twice. And they can't wholly separate the mini line because it isn't profitable enough with just those gamers. Dreamblade collapsed without the secondary market of RPGers and then no one would want the commons. Personally, your cheapest bet is still: http://www.miniature-giant.com/home.php or http://paizo.com/paizo Pick the one figure you want, ignore the rest, and get as many ogres as floats yer boat. |
| #9leowulfOct 22, 2008 11:28:14 | Although it's nice to see that we'll finally get non-random minis, the pricing is highway robbery. $10.99 for the 3-pack and $14.99 for a 5-pack is triple what I'd be willing to pay for regular-size minis. Is it very expensive? Yes! Is it exactly what we need? No. Is it a HUGE step in the right direction? YES! Well done, Wizards! :D now, just drop the price per pack down a tad, increase the variety of minis up a tad and it'll be perfect! ;) |
| #10gloreindlOct 22, 2008 11:37:18 | Unless WoTC drops their price by a lot, I'll stick to buying unpainted minis and paint them myself. With a little bit of searching, I can find mst any PC or monster in 25mm or 28mm sizes and for a lot less than the price of WoTC's minis. Plus after 28 years of pinting minis, I'm pretty darn ok at it :D |
| #11mikroponeOct 22, 2008 11:39:29 | I've said it before I'll say it again. The pricing point is ridiculous!!!! Unless the paintjobs, or sculpts are awesome it isn't worth it. Also, the power cards is very gimmicky. If they made pre-set themed boxes with certain types of monsters. Hell even if they made a set all goblins, and another one all undead but were randomized with multiple sculpts for the same creature type, it may be worth it. Even then the painting and sculpting needs great improvement. The reason dreamblade failed as far as I could see was because of the pricing point. A lot of people got into it when the boosters got cheap, and said if the boosters were half the price they were being sold for they would have been a lot more willing to get into it. I see the same thing happening with this overpriced new format. |
| #12daddicusOct 22, 2008 15:21:31 | Great news! As a RPG gamer (not a miniatures player) I really enjoyed reading this. I had previously asked the question and gotten the rather short response "We don't do that." (in slightly more words) Even when probed further, basically the person answering the question couldn't change anything. I'm glad to see that Wizards listened (apparently, there were a lot more voices than mine. I like the idea of the heroes being visible. The price point is good, too. In the past, someone might have to buy a half dozen boxes to get three good heroes, so pricing them at the same "price per figure" amount would be a money-loser for them. But, going much higher would have been gouging players. I also like the monster format as well. Keep the randomness around for the minis players, but make it focused on monsters. And, especially REAL Monster Manual monsters. There's one risk, though: With the monsters one having one visible figure, could those visible figures be any of rare through common? If so, then there will be tiered pricing based upon which figure is showing, won't there? Actually, this isn't necessarily bad, but I'm not sure they thought it through completely. |
| #13sean_e_rileyOct 22, 2008 18:17:46 | The price increase is rediculous, especially since the price for oil is dropping. My question is this, how will these miniatures be distrubuted in cases? I buy buy the case, will each selection come in it's own case, or will they be mixed in the case? If mixed, what is the distrubution? NEEDS TO KNOW! Sean |
| #14VrecknidjXOct 22, 2008 18:34:36 | I would guess that, in the current breakdown of minis in a booster, the rare is 50% of the value, the uncommons are 10% each, and the commons are 5% each. If we drop from 8 minis to 5, but keep a rare/uncommon/common breakdown, the rare will probably be worth more, relatively speaking, of that booster. And, truth be told, I've probably given away more commons than I can count. So, dropping a couple commons per booster and one uncommon, for better quality in the remaining pieces, is probably a very good thing. Dave |
| #15DragonOfLightOct 22, 2008 19:05:00 | Great news! As a RPG gamer (not a miniatures player) I really enjoyed reading this. Indeed. I was petty vocal about wanting non-random mini packs because of how many abilities have push, pull, slide or otherwise manhandle characteristics (making some form of visual element a must). Sure, you can use graph paper and a pencil but the minis add a whole lot more to it. I work hard for my limited income and I'm not going to spend it on a gamble hoping I get the minis I need for my game. |
| #16JohnLynchOct 22, 2008 20:13:10 | Although it's nice to see that we'll finally get non-random minis, the pricing is highway robbery. $10.99 for the 3-pack and $14.99 for a 5-pack is triple what I'd be willing to pay for regular-size minis. Dang! I'd love to know where you get your minis. Its half the cost of a regular mini for me and I get 5 times as many and they're painted as well. |
| #17dagaronOct 22, 2008 21:43:38 | Wow, where to start :D . Great posts, I hope to give half as much insight and hopefully provide a different point of view. First, I'm a DDM skirmisher. I play the competitive game and buy the miniatures for the game, not for RPG. This announcement in my eyes is not good. Let me explain.. no let me summarize. In limited format we build our team blind from two (2) boosters. By having non-random boosters or semi-random boosters this destroys our distribution and makes it much more difficult to hold fair tournaments with current distribution. Also, this announcement is making everyone who plays the skirmish game afraid due to lack of any acknowledgment. Not once in the announcement was there mention of compatibility or support with the skirmish game. See, the problem is D&D Minis are trying to serve two masters. Acknowledging that WotC is targeting two groups (comprised approximately of 80-90% RPG players and around 10% Skirmish players) is huge. This gets further complicated with the needs of the D&D mini game which has simple rules which made some figures impossible (most aquatic figures, the rust monster, etc) so they were omitted from the game. I disagree with the "simple rules" there is much more strategy to DDM than is obvious at first glance. Honestly while I was delving at Gen Con this year I repeatedly wished I was with more DDM players who immediately could recognize line-of-sight and optimal movement strategies (for flanking etc.). Dragonborn are still new, so are obviously under-represented (and thusly overpriced). That's not the skirmisher's fault though, the Dragonborn aren't competitive pieces at this time in the skirmish game. I agree with all other above points. If WotC was really just interested in serving the RPGers we'd see the big themed monster backs (orc warband, ogre pack, troll group, etc). Especially with the mini rules it makes collecting some of these, especially the uncommons, difficult. I've been collecting sing harbinger and have thousands of minis yet I only have maybe 3 ogres and 2 trolls. I bolded and underlined the truth in the above quote. WotC is a business. They're here to sell and make profit. Even though a box of 50 orcs for $5 would be the best for RPGers, it's not going to happen. I know I'm in the minority with this opinion, however I believe the random boosters are the best thing. This compromise is to make people who buy miniatures for RPG happy. If Wizards sold a pack of ogres, a pack of elves, a pack of dwarves, a pack of blink dogs, a pack of {insert monster or PC class here} everyone would buy 1 or 2 of them (with the hard-core army building DMs getting up to a max of 10). Then they'd fail. Random promotes impulse buying and case/increased quantity purchasing, keeping the line alive and making the game I play prosper. I truly hope the miniatures skirmish game will continue to prosper and be recognized. |
| #18DragonOfLightOct 22, 2008 23:51:19 | As much as I like the announcement (obviously since I made the silly thread), Dagaron has a lot of valid points. I have to admit it sucks for the DDM players that randomized boosters are being dropped completely. Too bad WotC isn't doing random and non-random lines. That way the Minis could serve two masters as The_Jester put it. |
| #19aef251Oct 23, 2008 8:36:41 | I am THRILLED to be getting the heroes packs. I just pray they also have skirmish cards since I do play both the RPG and DDM games. The monster packs though I am less thrilled with. If they came as all one type of monster then great. But as pointed out you'll never get a box of all orcs. Next best would be a box of all undead, or all goblinoid, or all evil elves etc. Failing that, I would be just as happy to keep the current format of all randomized boxes for the monsters. I think one issue though is the price is going to go up no matter what the packaging is. The simple economics of transportation cost, the falling dollar AND inflation in China means the price is going up no matter what. So WOTC is doing what every other company does in such a situation. They hide the initial price increase by lowering the quantity in each package. It works more easily with cereal or potatoe chips though. So at least each pack remains at least affordable even if it means fewer creatures in each. We'll see how it all shakes out though. But I am really exicted about the heroes packs, which was the main reason I started buying DDM packs in the first place. |
| #20rylnOct 23, 2008 15:38:33 | I'm happy to see Wizards moving in the right direction, but they need to go all the way. The monsters are still random which means I can't buy the minis that I want for *MY* campaign which means Reaper still gets my money. There are LOTS of DDMs that I'd love to give you my money for but I'm not paying $40 for a small piece of plastic because you decided to designate it as "rare" vs. another piece of the same sized plastic that you deemed "common". Why not make packs of highly useable monsters, like a Skeleton pack and an Orc pack, and then bundle less commonly encountered creatures in other packs, like a forest themed pack that contains a huge treant along with some dryads, etc. You know packs like the Orcs and Skeletons are going to sell in much greater volume so you produce more of those to bring costs down and produce the minimum amount required for the less popular packs (still quite desirable, but not as commonly needed by most DMs) and you charge a little extra on those to make up for any increased productions costs. |
| #21GrazelOct 24, 2008 15:36:30 | Actually in a clarification article today they stated that the new minis will NOT have skirmish rules and that WotC will be dropping sanctioned tournaments. Those who skirmish will still get 2.0 conversions of all previous sets but after Demonweb there will be no more skirmish sets released. They stated that the skirmish numbers were consistently dropping to the point that the current method of minis distribution was not profitable. 4e didn't fix that since the RPGers want specific minis not random ones that make what is common in RPG games a rare in skirmish because of the creatures power levels. Dragonborn minis are pricey because the 2 that came out are both rares and actually served me well in skirmish. The problem is that dragonborn are the FOTM for PC races so in high demand by RPGers, especially since most pregen chars include a dragonborn paladin. I have to agree that it seems certain creatures were left out of MM for 4e because they wouldn't work well in the DDM skirmish rules (like pure aquatic creatures). I've enjoyed the DDM skirmishing I've done but my focus for the minis (and budget limits) are for the RPG side and I'm sorry but I have no use for 20 vampire spawn, 50 ochre jellies, and 10 chain golems. Meanwhile the only elfs I have are some archers, a couple drow, a tiefling warlock, an eladrin wizard, 2 dragonborn minis (both more fighter than paladin looking), dwarf fighters, and halfing rogues. |
| #22miklowOct 27, 2008 10:27:24 | This is still expensive. I want the ability to go and purchase exactly the figures i need without having to accumulate loads of stuff that I don't need. Afraid I'll be purchasing from the singles and unpainted miniatures market for a while to come. Reaper have gone along way towards filling this gap with their Legendary Encounters series, but the range is limited and no word of it being expanded yet as far as I know. |
| #23EberronknightOct 27, 2008 11:46:40 | This is still expensive. I want the ability to go and purchase exactly the figures i need without having to accumulate loads of stuff that I don't need. Afraid I'll be purchasing from the singles and unpainted miniatures market for a while to come. Guys... seriously... that's what Ebay is for. People will have too many of something or getting rid of their minis and sell them for a less price. I think this is great, making minis for the RPG folk, after all the hundreds of minis I bought, they finally do this right. Though once the DDI is set up, I won't need physical minis but this is good for those that don't won't subscribe. EK |
| #24That_Blasted_SomoflangeOct 27, 2008 23:25:53 | The Goliath Mini pc hero shown looks pretty cool. If they can keep up the quality on these figures (or improve said quality - especially on the more common figures) I don't mind paying the extra. |
| #25elmorfanOct 28, 2008 2:06:34 | Of course the skirmish numbers were dropping, at the time of the release of Dungeons of Dread there was only one other set for use with the new rules and that ticked alot of people I know off, heck that made my undead LE warband useless. It is nice that they are going to finish converting the older sets, but it would have been nice to have had a couple of other sets converted before they released the new rules. |
| #26lollerkeet_the_2ndNov 13, 2008 3:57:53 | Themed packs are probably the way to go, a few larges (demons, trolls, giants) or a bunch of mediums based around a huge (Orcus and underlings, Yeenoghu and gnolls, a dragon and kobolds, etc), and you would have a lot of players (especially DMs) satisfied. Dragon Mountain had its own mini boxed set, why not do the same for all adventures. Why not go the whole way and release adventures, maps and minis in the same box? Also, why boxes of 3 PCs - why not a box of all 15/whatever? A new box could be released with each new PH and setting. Then integrate decent large scale combat rules and have players lead armies... I know the (solid) arguments for random minis, but this sort of distribution would reliably sell and be much more appropriate for the economies of the near future. |