[indent]Dear Insider,
As a valued D&D Insider⁚ subscriber, we wanted to make sure that you were among the first to know about some changes to D&DI that will be coming this July.
Starting Tuesday, July 7, D&D Insider will debut complete sections of final, playable, Player's Handbook® 3 material each month leading up to the book's release in March 2010. As a D&DI subscriber, you will be the first to receive nine months of content totaling 102 pages available only through your D&DI subscription.
Each month, the PH3 content will be made available to you through the Character Builder and Compendium accompanied by a comprehensive article. You can read more detail about the debut content in Bill Slavicsek's upcoming Ampersand column.
Beginning July 2, introductory pricing for D&D Insider will expire and subscription prices will change to reflect the increasing value and new content. Starting today, you have 44 days to take advantage of the introductory pricing before it is no longer available. As a current subscriber, you can extend or upgrade your current subscription to get the most value possible. To ensure that you're getting the most value for your money, be sure to visit our FAQ to determine whether a subscription upgrade or extension is right for you.
The deadline for taking advantage of introductory pricing is July 1 at 12 midnight EDT.*
New pricing for D&D Insider beginning July 2:
$9.95 for 1 month
$23.85 for 3 months (save 20%)
$71.40 for an annual subscription (save 40%)
If you have any questions about either of the changes listed above, or about your subscription, you can visit the FAQ or contact the Wizards of the Coast Customer Service team by visiting http://wizards.custhelp.com.
* expiration of your subscription and subsequent renewal or renewal after July 1 will be at the increased rate.[/indent]Awesome! The next nine months are gonna rock![/indent]
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20090519
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DOES NO ONE SEE THE COVER?!
I did see! I did see!
More Primal heroes! I hope I get my Witch![/indent]
Just took another look at the cover. Did not expect to see Divine and Primal as well. If that is indeed correct, I'm wondering just what sort of classes there will be for those two sources.
In fact, I'm a little dissapointed.
I wanted Shadow/ Elemental.Hmm... Divine and Primal as well huh. Well, this probably means:
- 4: Psionics
- 2: Divine
- 2: Primal
If it sticks to what is was like in PHB2.
I wonder what the Primal and Divine classes will be.
Also, that is awesome how much material we will get from DDI for PHB3.
Anyway, I'm very disappointed with what I can see of PHB III: they keep spamming divine and primal in PHBs and arcane in campaign settings, and yet we are still waiting for a martial controller and more martial classes? What is this, 3.x reloaded?
And, for Pelor's sake, why is the minotaur on the cover wielding a light pole???
But what could they do? Really.
And, for Pelor's sake, why is the minotaur on the cover wielding a light pole???
Rule of Cool.
And yeah, more Martial Classes, please. especially Bow users.
[indent]
I wonder what the Primal and Divine classes will be.
Me too! The speculation threads are going to be on fire![/indent]
KlausThePrince:
[indent]
And, for Pelor's sake, why is the minotaur on the cover wielding a light pole???
LOL I was wondering that also...[/indent]
Minotaur+Githyanki equals LOVE!
I guess I am going to be the first to ask it, but what does this mean for the upcoming setting?
[indent]
And yeah, more Martial Classes, please. especially Bow users.
Yes! Bow-user support PLEASE![/indent]
PHB - Fighter, Rogue, Ranger, Warlord;Cleirc, Paladin;Wizard, Warlock.
PHB2- Barbarian, Druid, Shaman, Warden; Avenger, Invoker; Bard, Sorcerer
PHB3- Monk, Psion, Empath?, Soulknife/Psychic Warrior?; 2 Divine; 2 Primal.
Plus we also get:
FRPG- Swordmage
EPG - Artificer
This would give us;
4 Martial
6 Divine
6 Primal
4 Psychic
6 Arcane
That's not "Spamming" Primal classes...If anything it's ignoring Martial classes for one reason or another, but over all we have balanced numbers of classes. Who knows what the future holds, though, maybe PHB4 will give us Shadow/Martial/Psychic thus filling Martial and Psychic out to 6 each and giving us a new power source.
I think many of the folks here are merely being alarmists...
I know Mearls confirmed it, but things change. Shadow could just be the darker side of Divine now and Elemental... come on, it's practically Primal.
It's a ruse. Psionic has already been confirmed but nothing else has to this point. They photoshop the cover and add divine, and primal in with psionic, thereby hiding the other power sources. Might there be divine and primal classes in the book? Sure. But, I'd wager you'll see at least one other new power source. ;)
Quite possible.
It's a ruse. Psionic has already been confirmed but nothing else has to this point. They photoshop the cover and add divine, and primal in with psionic, thereby hiding the other power sources. Might there be divine and primal classes in the book? Sure. But, I'd wager you'll see at least one other new power source. ;)
How's that tinfoil beanie fitting?:P :D
I really like the idea of an increase of Divine and Primal classes. Primal has so many different areas to explore. As another poster stated, a Witch would be really cool. Rather than see a Druid that uses animal companions, I would much rather see that as a unique class, perhaps having the character take on attributes of their companion. Divine could always use some more love.
[indent]We need a Primal class with lots of plant-based powers! We lack one of those.[/indent]
The Warden has quite a few, but agreed.
Well, I don't know what to think. Prince increases are never welcome, but for all we got till this day, the current price was kinda cheap...
Anyway, I'm very disappointed with what I can see of PHB III: they keep spamming divine and primal in PHBs and arcane in campaign settings, and yet we are still waiting for a martial controller and more martial classes? What is this, 3.x reloaded?
And, for Pelor's sake, why is the minotaur on the cover wielding a light pole???
Monk = Martial Controller as well as a Druid to a lesser extent.
[indent]
The Warden has quite a few, but agreed.
True!
I should have been more specific in stating that I want a more "magical botanist" class. ..or whatever.. You know what I mean. LOL ;)[/indent]
ShiftKitty:
[indent]
I have not received this e-mail and I am a subscriber...
Hmm... It should come soon enough![/indent]
I guess it doesn't matter. I said I wasn't planning on buying anything after the removal of the pdfs. Things like this just make it easier to justify that decision.
Monk = Martial Controller as well as a Druid to a lesser extent.
I think you're confusing "martial" with "melee".
That said, I think a swashbuckler type class would work well as a martial melee controller. All trips and trick-fighting techniques.
For Divine, I would like to see them going beyond just ordinary God-worship. Lets see weird cults who worship a living being, worship of strange beings (Aberrations, a God-Machine, etc.).
As for Psionics well I am still hoping for my pseudoscience (hopefully will see some in these monthly previews. Also hopefully see the Elan too).
But now that they're making more Primal classes I bet they wish they didn't make Druid and Warden be able to do every kind of naturey thing, now it's just going to be redundant; I knew that was going to come back to haunt them.
I bet we are looking at the four original psionic classes plus monk and maybe another former ki class too. I'm not sure what the other Ki classes have become, but I do believe that they won't all be included with this supplement. That big Minotaur on the front screams Evil Paladin. We could even see the Wu Jen as a primal controller. Throw in a couple other concepts and bam they can sell another PHB without creating a new power source.
Any idea who the cover artist is? Thats my favorite cover by far that I've seen.
Looks like Michael Komarck's work. He's the one responsible for the new, more human-looking, Gith in the 4th edition MM, as well as the cover of the FRCG.
[indent]
But now that they're making more Primal classes I bet they wish they didn't make Druid and Warden be able to do every kind of naturey thing, now it's just going to be redundant; I knew that was going to come back to haunt them.
I thought this same thing for a moment, but I get the impression that all of this material has been completed for awhile (otherwise they wouldn't be so quick to release it without doing the Playtest Article thing).
I'm of the opinion that there was always intention of continuing to flesh out previously released power sources alongside of one new power source per year. Psionic was probably slated for this release, along with the Primal and Divine expansions, but they dropped the Monk in after ditching 2011's Ki source. The previously previewed Wilden race lends credence to the fact that Primal was always on the table for PHB3. 2011 will most likely consist of Shadow, Martial and Arcane (giving us Necromancers, Martial Controllers and Arcane Archers).[/indent]
(If I was paying, I'd be saying this)
I'm not paying for Previews! I'm paying to get content that isn't available anywhere else! I want articles that develop the published worlds. I want expansions on concepts that are introduced in your books, like more Alchemical Items, or more Companion Items. I want more options for things that already exist. If some of those things end up in books, wonderful.
I don't want to be force feed a book over a year. What the heck do I have to look forward to if you do that? Where is the pleasure in surprise and discovery of the new book if you take that away from me?
Just color me disappointed.
I seriously thought that cover art was fan photoshopped until I followed the official link for it... I mean, the characters on it aren't the same style of art that any of the other books have been designed in. Heck, the "realistic" style they're illustrated in is in stark contrast to the rest of the entire cover. I can't imagine they'll actually keep that cover art when the book is released.
That said, I'm glad they'll be making Gith "official." However, I am surprised that they're releasing Minotaurs yet again. And more divine and primal classes?
Are the devs really that unsure of the direction they're wanting to go with new power sources? I mean, first they totally scrapped Ki, which was listed in the friggin' PHB for crying out loud, and now they're not daring to touch Shadow or Elemental?I don't doubt that the PHB3 will be a quality book, nor do I doubt that the ultimate release of new power sources won't be good. But, I'd feel a lot more comfortable about everything if WotC were coming across as at least a little confident here. Instead, it seems like they're playing things extremely safe.
Here's hoping that everything works out. *crosses fingers*
Not that I am a DDI subscriber, but I would find this highly annoying. Now instead of having my sub money go to real articles and new concepts, I am paying a subscription fee and paying for a book over a year.
(If I was paying, I'd be saying this)
I'm not paying for Previews! I'm paying to get content that isn't available anywhere else! I want articles that develop the published worlds. I want expansions on concepts that are introduced in your books, like more Alchemical Items, or more Companion Items. I want more options for things that already exist. If some of those things end up in books, wonderful.
I don't want to be force feed a book over a year. What the heck do I have to look forward to if you do that? Where is the pleasure in surprise and discovery of the new book if you take that away from me?
Just color me disappointed.
Guess what. You(if you were a subscriber) would still be getting all of that content that you're railing against not seeing in favor of large excerpts from upcoming releases. They already announced a focus shift for the magazines to be able to provide even more of the content you seem to want across the two magazines.
Not that I am a DDI subscriber, but I would find this highly annoying. Now instead of having my sub money go to real articles and new concepts, I am paying a subscription fee and paying for a book over a year.
(If I was paying, I'd be saying this)
I'm not paying for Previews! I'm paying to get content that isn't available anywhere else! I want articles that develop the published worlds. I want expansions on concepts that are introduced in your books, like more Alchemical Items, or more Companion Items. I want more options for things that already exist. If some of those things end up in books, wonderful.
I don't want to be force feed a book over a year. What the heck do I have to look forward to if you do that? Where is the pleasure in surprise and discovery of the new book if you take that away from me?
Just color me disappointed.
I totally understand anyone who would feel this way. I am a DDI subscriber and for the most part I like it. To be honest I don't see myself wanting to buy PHB3 anyways. Not because it I'm not as interested in psionics, but because the character builder updates anyways as does the compendium.
I do hope to see more DDI articles covering new stuff though, not just previews for PHB3. That alone is not worth the price increase.
I am thinking with the Minotaur both his armour and mace has glyphs/sigils on it. Could that be one of the class features for one of the new classes. Perhaps Divine where you use the sigils of some being you have reverence toward and gaining power through them. I always liked glyph/sigil magic so be neat to see it.
I miss having the paper magazines, but I don't understand the backlash against D&DI. I don't want to start a flame war about it, though.
Yay Psionics! I'm going to buy another year before the price goes up....
Not that I am a DDI subscriber, but I would find this highly annoying. Now instead of having my sub money go to real articles and new concepts, I am paying a subscription fee and paying for a book over a year.
(If I was paying, I'd be saying this)
I'm not paying for Previews! I'm paying to get content that isn't available anywhere else! I want articles that develop the published worlds. I want expansions on concepts that are introduced in your books, like more Alchemical Items, or more Companion Items. I want more options for things that already exist. If some of those things end up in books, wonderful.
I don't want to be force feed a book over a year. What the heck do I have to look forward to if you do that? Where is the pleasure in surprise and discovery of the new book if you take that away from me?
Just color me disappointed.
WotC-Trevor has already confirmed this is an add-on, it will not be part of the magazines, and will not be part of the Dungeon/Dragon page count. Also he has confirmed the price increase has nothing to do with the previews, but rather with the introductory pricing coming to its eventual end. And that they have no plans to increase the price when the Campaign Tools come out (though he isn't saying FOR SURE, the price wont increase, just that it is VERY LIKELY it won't.)
I'm excited that they are adding new classes to divine and primal rather than just chucking new power sources.... I just hope there are no more Arcane Classes....
And that cover is very nice.
Psionic, Divine and Primal ey?
hmmm... interesting. Maybe we will see the Shujenja or Favored One. I wander what they could do with primal though, because tbh I can't think of anything not covered.
EDIT: This is also sorta bad news. Because they didn't have the tools they promsied out they instead jsut descided lets give them a large chunk of a future publication so we have an excuse to raise the prices.
Im glad the PH3 material is available ahead of time in D&DI. That way, we can playtest the material before the official text comes into print. This is exactly why D&DI is so awesome. It enables the players to help decide where the D&D tradition is heading.
You know if this amount of previews become more often. I would like to see a even more direct influence. It be so neat to have "beginning stage preview", where WoTC gives DDI members a beginning idea and we can elaborate/vote on what direction to take it. Each month we get more of this beginning stage and thus we are essentially dictating the path that a book goes on. I doubt it will happen but it be damn cool!
And for some reason now I am feeling Dragonlance as the 2010 campaign setting. Just something about seeing that Minotaur, that and all the buyback of IP they have done for Dragonlance these last couple of years.
Sigil Beguiler: I would like to see a even more direct influence. It be so neat to have "beginning stage preview", where WoTC gives DDI members a beginning idea and we can elaborate/vote on what direction to take it.
When Wizards.com gets its 'wiki' working, that is exactly what will happen. Subscribers will post the official material, then itemize various critiques of it and offer fixes and alternates, to improve it or diversify its options or flavors. In turn, these unofficial wiki discussions can become the foundation for future official material and errata.
I am glad my suspicions were confirmed with there only being 1 new Power Source in the PHB3.
And for some reason now I am feeling Dragonlance as the 2010 campaign setting. Just something about seeing that Minotaur, that and all the buyback of IP they have done for Dragonlance these last couple of years.
The minotaur on the cover of PHB3 leaves room for the Tinker Gnome in the DLPG. BTW, the IP for DL never left WotC, every product from 3.5E was either produced by WotC or licensed(and had to go through editing and processing by them) by them. There was no buyback.
I am hoping that the new Primal classes really amp up the idea of using Spirit instead of Nature. It be great to have it not just be natural spirits, but take on a Shinto-feel and have them in everything. Just imagine a urban Primal character who has the entire spirit of the city at their beck and call.
For Divine, I would like to see them going beyond just ordinary God-worship. Lets see weird cults who worship a living being, worship of strange beings (Aberrations, a God-Machine, etc.).
As for Psionics well I am still hoping for my pseudoscience (hopefully will see some in these monthly previews. Also hopefully see the Elan too).
Haha, those are some pretty cool ideas, but they have such a non-D&D feel to them
Although I'm sure someone will come up with an obscure reference to some dragon magazine or another to prove that there's some precedent for them.I'm miffed we're seeing Minotaur in a PHB. It's already been written up as a class in Dragon.
My guess is that they are using this as an opportunity to fix the minotaur race.
Haha, those are some pretty cool ideas, but they have such a non-D&D feel to them
Bah! about D&D feel give me my craziness!!! :P
Here's to hoping that its a placeholder in the .indd file!
WOW! That is great artwork, the guy that does these pieces is one of my favourite D&D artist great to see him doing covers.
Hmm... Divine and Primal as well huh. Well, this probably means:
- 4: Psionics
- 2: Divine
- 2: Primal
If it sticks to what is was like in PHB2.
I wonder what the Primal and Divine classes will be.
Also, that is awesome how much material we will get from DDI for PHB3.
Could be 4/2/2, but I sorta feel it may be 5/1/2 for some reason.
Well, I don't know what to think. Prince increases are never welcome, but for all we got till this day, the current price was kinda cheap...
Anyway, I'm very disappointed with what I can see of PHB III: they keep spamming divine and primal in PHBs and arcane in campaign settings, and yet we are still waiting for a martial controller and more martial classes? What is this, 3.x reloaded?
And, for Pelor's sake, why is the minotaur on the cover wielding a light pole???
I sincerely doubt they're ever making a martial controller.
Huh...I don't know how I feel about the whole two old, one new power source model. But, I'm gonna assume that the developers have a specific direction in mind, and we'll see what that is as time goes on.
so long as wotc makes enjoyable classes, i do not at all mind seeing existing power sources expanded. if there is no dilution of quality of product, who cares?
I sincerely doubt they're ever making a martial controller.
after druid and monk, a martial controller now is totally doable.
so long as wotc makes enjoyable classes, i do not at all mind seeing existing power sources expanded. if there is no dilution of quality of product, who cares?
after druid and monk, a martial controller now is totally doable.
But could they make one that doesn't re-cover the same grounds that the monk and druid do?
But could they make one that doesn't re-cover the same grounds that the monk and druid do?
contrasting monk would rely more on function (because monk is not a controller) than flavor (because monk is so very like the 3e swordsage, a martial class). contrasting druid would rely more on flavor (no wildshape, weather or plant references) than function (because druid is a controller).
Also, this will mean at least a PH5 if there's only 1 new power source each year, taking us to 2012.
I can see Dark Sun waiting for Elemental then... guess Dragonlance is coming.
One question though: Why don't I have this email, or anybody else who's a subscriber besides the OP?
EDIT: Apparently it's in the news announcements and I missed it. The OP maybe got an email, or else misworded, or is special.
I'm guessing it was originally going to be four Psionic classes and three Ki classes, assuming seven classes total. Now it's still the original four Psionic classes, plus the former Ki classes: one more Psionic (Monk), one Divine (Shugenja), and one Primal (Wu Jen). Note that I only included seven classes, for no reason other than that I can't think of anything else right now. :P I also don't necessarily think that either Shugenja or Wu Jen belong in the power sources I've suggested above, but it's the best temporary fit I could make. I'm just tossing ideas out here.
Not that I am a DDI subscriber, but I would find this highly annoying. Now instead of having my sub money go to real articles and new concepts, I am paying a subscription fee and paying for a book over a year.
(If I was paying, I'd be saying this)
I'm not paying for Previews! I'm paying to get content that isn't available anywhere else! I want articles that develop the published worlds. I want expansions on concepts that are introduced in your books, like more Alchemical Items, or more Companion Items. I want more options for things that already exist. If some of those things end up in books, wonderful.
I don't want to be force feed a book over a year. What the heck do I have to look forward to if you do that? Where is the pleasure in surprise and discovery of the new book if you take that away from me?
Just color me disappointed.
Any excuse to complain, right? Someone else has already pointed out how flawed your argument is, and you complain about a subscription service you don't even subscribe to? (One which the majority of subscribers --myself included -- seem to be extremely happy with, I might add.)
I can only assume you post here just to see your own words.
I seriously thought that cover art was fan photoshopped until I followed the official link for it... I mean, the characters on it aren't the same style of art that any of the other books have been designed in. Heck, the "realistic" style they're illustrated in is in stark contrast to the rest of the entire cover. I can't imagine they'll actually keep that cover art when the book is released.
That said, I'm glad they'll be making Gith "official." However, I am surprised that they're releasing Minotaurs yet again. And more divine and primal classes?
I don't doubt that the PHB3 will be a quality book, nor do I doubt that the ultimate release of new power sources won't be good. But, I'd feel a lot more comfortable about everything if WotC were coming across as at least a little confident here. Instead, it seems like they're playing things extremely safe.
Here's hoping that everything works out. *crosses fingers*
I think you're reading waaayyy too much into things. Stop worrying, bro (or sis)! You sound like you expect the sky to land on your head any second.
I have a feeling that the choice of Primal, Psionic, and Divine have much to do with Ki no longer existing. It's my belief that Wizards was not going with the 4/2/2 scheme for this release but was instead going with Psionic and Ki (4/4).
I bet we are looking at the four original psionic classes plus monk and maybe another former ki class too. I'm not sure what the other Ki classes have become, but I do believe that they won't all be included with this supplement. That big Minotaur on the front screams Evil Paladin. We could even see the Wu Jen as a primal controller. Throw in a couple other concepts and bam they can sell another PHB without creating a new power source.
I disagree. We know that the "theme" for the PHB3 is the incurssion of the Far Realm into the natural world. These power sources are the "duh" choices when it comes to that theme as psionics are indirectly related to the Far Realm and the powers who would be most annoyed by the incursion are the Primal Spirits and Gods. Expect that the Divine and Primal classes to have a strong association with hunting down/destroying unnatural creatures related to the Far Realm.
EDIT: Apparently it's in the news announcements and I missed it. The OP maybe got an email, or else misworded, or is special.
I got the email as well. See if maybe your email accidently put it in spam.
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I got the email as well. See if maybe your email accidently put it in spam.
Nah, he won't find it. We got it cuz we special. :D[/indent]
Not in my spam. But I read the announcement so it's all good. I guess I'm just not special enough to get emails from WotC...
No, it looks like you're just special.
Not in my spam. But I read the announcement so it's all good. I guess I'm just not special enough to get emails from WotC...
I got mine. Are you absolutely sure that you've checked the email account that WotC has on file? Maybe you should double check that they've got the correct address listed; someone else might be getting your spam right now! :O
Thanks. I just checked my old email, and it was there. Which is strange, because I long ago changed my account email with WotC, and it should have come to me at my new email address.
I AM SPECIAL!!!:D
TheReveal!!!? In MY old mailbox!?? MADNESS!!!
Thanks. I just checked my old email, and it was there. Which is strange, because I long ago changed my account email with WotC, and it should have come to me at my new email address.
I AM SPECIAL!!!:D
Aww, yeah... Cookie to myself for the fine work!
Any idea who the cover artist is? Thats my favorite cover by far that I've seen.
Love the cover.
for your help, doctorhook.Now I'm kind of desperately anxiously excited for July. Not to mention I'll be in Japan that month, and thus should be able to get the books that month early if I order them...
I'm actually digging this. If I buy a new year subscription on July 1st, I'll have around 20 months of content from then on with the original cheaper price, and only after that will I need to start paying the new price (because I have an active year-subscription). Though some may complain that Preview-Dragon is not the kind of Dragon we want, I see this is an expansion of what will be in DDi, as an addition to the new content that will be filed in new ways under Dungeon and Dragon. Dungeon will be a lot longer, because it will be adventures + DM content like Ecology articles, Creature Incarnations, the powerful outsider articles (like Lords of Chaos or Court of the Stars), and such. Dragon hopefully won't be reduced significantly, so all in all there will be a lot more content, so obviously the price is going to go up. Add to that the exclusive previews of PH3 each month (totaling in the end at 102 pages), and we're getting a lot for $71.40 a year (that's $5.95/month if you get a year's subscription, four dollars less than the one-month cost).
TheReveal!!!? In MY old mailbox!?? MADNESS!!!
Thanks. I just checked my old email, and it was there. Which is strange, because I long ago changed my account email with WotC, and it should have come to me at my new email address.
I AM SPECIAL!!!:D
I had to check my old email, kinda annoying. You know when you update your info like your email its normally egenral practise to start emailing to the new freaking email.
On other news,
I'm looking forward to the Phb 2.5/2.75 it will be nice to have most of that juicy content, be thje only DDI subscriber in my group and not see any of it in in play
Still, my eyes will be pleasure for many a few moons. (it does say heroes, not classes). For psionic we'll likely see 4-6 classes depending on if they had 4 before shifting over the monk, and if any of the other 'ki' classes they had gotten work done on got moved to psionic.This won't be alterable material by the sounds though hopefully they will make some minor tweaks as we test things out though I suspect the best we can hope for is some typo-style errata fixed since they did say this was 'final' material, not playtest material.
Looks like minotaurs will be reprinted in the PH3 since the article for them was in Dragon after it was no longer free. We'll also get githzerai (I still doubt we'll see githyanki but we might) and wilden (even if renamed). At least the basic stat block is only about one page so they aren't overly reprinting the minotaur as long as they flush out it's feats.
I'm not sure we'll see a full 8 classes since they're also including all the hybrid class rules which means having to put in the hybrid class versions of all the existing classes plus whatever is in the PH3 (with just six in PH3 that'd be 24 classes minimum since we don't have a confirmation yet of only one class in EPG).
Also I don't think we'll see this much coverage of an upcoming book after PH3. This looks like giving us something extra for the price increase to make it worth it until they can get more of the tools done and out there. At least we've gotten confirmation that the articles for the monthly content won't count towards the magazine page counts which I could see changing anyway when they switch their format around.
I figure that there will be eight PHs, and the publishing system for the Power Sources could be thus: each source will get 4 classes in one book, then 2 each in another 2 books. If this were to prove true, then Divine could get another 4 classes in this book. However, I think that Divine and Primal are just placeholders for Shadow and Elemental, and Wizards are not at liberty to reveal that we get a whole three new Power sources...I mean, the Gith on the cover indicates that both varieties could appear in PH3, and Githzerai are technically from the Elemental Chaos...and the Minotaur looks neither Divine nor Primal! I mean...look at him! He's practically smothered in darkness! I don't think Shadow would've merged with Divine, since it doesn't suit for Shadow powers to be called 'prayers'. Ditto for Elemental and Primal. So...yeah...
I disagree. We know that the "theme" for the PHB3 is the incurssion of the Far Realm into the natural world. These power sources are the "duh" choices when it comes to that theme as psionics are indirectly related to the Far Realm and the powers who would be most annoyed by the incursion are the Primal Spirits and Gods. Expect that the Divine and Primal classes to have a strong association with hunting down/destroying unnatural creatures related to the Far Realm.
You took the words right out of my mouth (or the keys right off of my keyboard?)! I just read this thread and was going to say the exact same thing if no one else had. Good deal.
On another note, could not one of the classes be something incarnum-based? Since the theme is as mentioned above, an Ki seems to be out, perhaps incarnum could fill a spot; it probably could go in any of the three power sources listed on the cover:
Psionic - character uses mental power to draw from the life forces at its disposal
Primal - life force is something intrinsic/natural order of the world and the universe, and with the Far Realm encroaching, it might need extra protection
Divine - kind of like the Primal, where life force is something that flows through the gods (or is above them but they hold it sacred) that needs protection.
Thoughts?
Well, I guess it'll be neat to have more Divine and Primal content :D
I figure that there will be eight PHs, and the publishing system for the Power Sources could be thus: each source will get 4 classes in one book, then 2 each in another 2 books. If this were to prove true, then Divine could get another 4 classes in this book. However, I think that Divine and Primal are just placeholders for Shadow and Elemental, and Wizards are not at liberty to reveal that we get a whole three new Power sources...I mean, the Gith on the cover indicates that both varieties could appear in PH3, and Githzerai are technically from the Elemental Chaos...and the Minotaur looks neither Divine nor Primal! I mean...look at him! He's practically smothered in darkness! I don't think Shadow would've merged with Divine, since it doesn't suit for Shadow powers to be called 'prayers'. Ditto for Elemental and Primal. So...yeah...
It's pretty much a given by now I think that Shadow and Elemental will each be getting their own PHBs for intro, like Primal and Psionics. It's the best way for WotC to stick to their one PHB a year plan without the later ones becoming too irrelevant.
Any idea who the cover artist is? Thats my favorite cover by far that I've seen.
Agreed. Best cover hands down so far.
The minotaur actually gives the convincing feel of a large, burly creature, which is not easily done.I was also thinking that Divine and Primal might just be a cover for PH3. I still would like to see Ki as a bona-fide Power Source (and that's not just my inner-otaku talking! :P ), and it'd be neat if they added another new source too.
They've stated straight out that KI is gone. Eaten by other power sources.
So how long before people start screaming that the cover is proof that 4e = WoW
but one question for you, does it matter? people have been "screaming" that since day one of 4e, the cover won't change that.
but one question for you, does it matter? people have been "screaming" that since day one of 4e, the cover won't change that.
I find [unwarranted comparisons of 4e to WoW and the trolling, baiting and flaming that follows] fun to read due to the sheer stupidity of such claims.
I'm curious what the new Divine and Primal classes are going to be, especially given how unclear it was what concepts Divine could add in PH2. I'm going to speculate that this book was originally slated as "Psionic and Ki Heroes", and that Ki just got chopped up into other power sources, as per the Monk's accompanying Design & Development article.
I'm guessing it was originally going to be four Psionic classes and three Ki classes, assuming seven classes total. Now it's still the original four Psionic classes, plus the former Ki classes: one more Psionic (Monk), one Divine (Shugenja), and one Primal (Wu Jen). Note that I only included seven classes, for no reason other than that I can't think of anything else right now. :P I also don't necessarily think that either Shugenja or Wu Jen belong in the power sources I've suggested above, but it's the best temporary fit I could make. I'm just tossing ideas out here.
Ahd why would the Shugenja and Wu Jen originaly be in the Ki Source ? They have noooohoooohooooothiiiiiing to do with Ki
Ahd why would the Shugenja and Wu Jen originaly be in the Ki Source ? They have noooohoooohooooothiiiiiing to do with Ki
You have to admit that if they actually canned the Ki power source and put the classes in Divine a Primal to avoid the whole mildly racist Ki = Asian = China/Japan thing, they have done the right thing.
You have to admit that if they actually canned the Ki power source and put the classes in Divine a Primal to avoid the whole mildly racist Ki = Asian = China/Japan thing, they have done the right thing.
Yeah that is right and it is a good thing (and yay, more Primal Power !!! )
The problem is just, that the Shugenja is Divine in all of his aspects while the Wu Jen is Elemtental/Arcane. They never have been Ki-like
Yeah that is right and it is a good thing (and yay, more Primal Power !!! )
The problem is just, that the Shugenja is Divine in all of his aspects while the Wu Jen is Elemtental/Arcane. They never have been Ki-like
Well since my only experience with DnD has been 4e I wouldn't know what either of the two classes did. Although it is completely possible that these classes have actually been planned as Divines and Primal from the beginning.
Even with this price increase we're still paying less than they originally planned for the DDi subscription rate, which is good in that we don't have all the tools they originally planned to have available yet.
As for shugenja and wu jen I don't really think they planned on putting them in with ki. I think it was more that as they tried to come up with something unifying for ki they had problems populating it enough to hold up as a power source without drawing in cultural themed classes which they wanted to avoid so scrapped ki as a power source.
It sounds like the only serious ones that might have made ki were monk, ninja, and samurai. It also sounds like samurai they had trouble making it a cohesive and unique class and have at this point felt it'll be better as a MC feat class like gladiators and assassins so other classes that have the bulk of the samurai's traits can choose to focus and pick up the extra powers/abilities via feats that would make that class a samurai. Monk got moved to psionic and they haven't stated the fate of the ninja.
On the otherhand, using an internet model and a subscription service is brilliant. As a consumer I am unwilling to purchase a $30 - $40 book that may have 4 or 5 pages that I will interested in, especially if I can find that information other places (and typically faster than I could buy the book anyway). I will however gladly pay a nomial fee ($10 seems about the right price point for the current offering) for the opportunity to use the tools (character builder, online compendium, etc) and to get the updates to those tools for all the latest items, feats, races, classes, etc.
Given the current speed at which books are being released for 4th edition, I will probably end up saving some money not buying the books but WOTC is also saving on production costs for the printed material. In short, everyone wins, I get my gaming material and WotC makes money to pay the artists, game designers, etc, etc to continue to provide these materials.
I fully expect to see far more of WotC's offerings coming from DDI and if they are smart, they will be doubling effort on getting the other promised tools online and finding new types of material to distribute through this channel.
Ahd why would the Shugenja and Wu Jen originaly be in the Ki Source ? They have noooohoooohooooothiiiiiing to do with Ki
Ah, I suppose I should make myself more clear: Not only was I saying that I didn't really think Divine would be the best fit for the Shugenja I remember, nor Primal for the Wu Jen, but I also meant that I (even more strongly) feel that neither of them ever belonged in Ki. ...Which would be part of why, if someone at WotC had lumped them into Ki, Ki was discarded as a power source concept.
The logic is a little circular up there, but no, I definitely don't believe that the Wu Jen or the Shugenja should ever have been considered "Ki" classes. However, that's not to say that I'm certain that no one else ever considered them thus.
I think there is an angle here that this forum is missing. WotC is struggling to deal with an the business model of selling books full of information which doesn't make much sense in the digital age. The internet is designed to quickly distribute information (books, songs, games, etc) to millions of people and the internet does its job exceptionally well. Any book that WOTC prints will almost imediately be available on the internet for free. Even if the book itself isn't available all of the relevent information will be discoverable in short order just by reading a few forums or downloading a custom character sheet or two. No company can long afford to do business in that kind of an environment.
On the otherhand, using an internet model and a subscription service is brilliant. As a consumer I am unwilling to purchase a $30 - $40 book that may have 4 or 5 pages that I will interested in, especially if I can find that information other places (and typically faster than I could buy the book anyway). I will however gladly pay a nomial fee ($10 seems about the right price point for the current offering) for the opportunity to use the tools (character builder, online compendium, etc) and to get the updates to those tools for all the latest items, feats, races, classes, etc.
Given the current speed at which books are being released for 4th edition, I will probably end up saving some money not buying the books but WOTC is also saving on production costs for the printed material. In short, everyone wins, I get my gaming material and WotC makes money to pay the artists, game designers, etc, etc to continue to provide these materials.
I fully expect to see far more of WotC's offerings coming from DDI and if they are smart, they will be doubling effort on getting the other promised tools online and finding new types of material to distribute through this channel.
I prefer the printed page, but am unwilling to invest so heavily on inks, paper and printers (because all of that printing would burn a home model out too easily. I don't have a laptop, and even if I did I wouldn't want to be staring at a screen for the better part of my day. I rarely even watch TV, but I know that puts me in a distinct minority. Many of us prefer the books, and if you're a skilled shopper (sometimes combined with a bit of good fortune), you can land the books for hella cheap. I don't recall the last time I paid full price for a D&D book, brand new and legal. I average 18-20$. I don't have to boot up a book. Once it's printed it requires no more energy on my part than it takes to retrieve it from the shelf, open it, and turn the pages. No batteries or plugs. I would hope that WotC never drops the printed line altogether. You can't goosh a spider with a PDF!:D
I'm not sure about elsewhere, but our local bookstores here are often very crowded. The neat array of spines from a series of gaming books is very eye-catching, and I have answered the "What's this game about?" question more than a few times. (Wizards owes me a commission from at least two sales of core sets at my local Borders!:Djk )I have also caught myself getting drawn to products and systems I probably wouldn't give a second glance to online. Most people don't spend much more than ten seconds on a page when just browsing versus approximately 5 minutes when looking at a shelf full of merchandise. I think there's a strong argument for both methods, and I would like to see them both continue with good support.
I think there is an angle here that this forum is missing. WotC is struggling to deal with an the business model of selling books full of information which doesn't make much sense in the digital age. The internet is designed to quickly distribute information (books, songs, games, etc) to millions of people and the internet does its job exceptionally well. Any book that WOTC prints will almost imediately be available on the internet for free. Even if the book itself isn't available all of the relevent information will be discoverable in short order just by reading a few forums or downloading a custom character sheet or two. No company can long afford to do business in that kind of an environment.
On the otherhand, using an internet model and a subscription service is brilliant. As a consumer I am unwilling to purchase a $30 - $40 book that may have 4 or 5 pages that I will interested in, especially if I can find that information other places (and typically faster than I could buy the book anyway). I will however gladly pay a nomial fee ($10 seems about the right price point for the current offering) for the opportunity to use the tools (character builder, online compendium, etc) and to get the updates to those tools for all the latest items, feats, races, classes, etc.
Given the current speed at which books are being released for 4th edition, I will probably end up saving some money not buying the books but WOTC is also saving on production costs for the printed material. In short, everyone wins, I get my gaming material and WotC makes money to pay the artists, game designers, etc, etc to continue to provide these materials.
I fully expect to see far more of WotC's offerings coming from DDI and if they are smart, they will be doubling effort on getting the other promised tools online and finding new types of material to distribute through this channel.
Not a personal attack or anything, but I find this mentality to be the reason why many companies such as WotC fail, and why things like the Writers Strike and the Lawsuits against Napster were actually necessary steps towards raising the awareness of consumers.
There is such a thing as customer loyalty, and as it is, I am someone who follows that model. It's something that I think a great many people fail to realize, if you don't give money to a company, that company can not produce more product. I will fully admit that I Pirate EVERY 4e book that comes out. But if I find the Book useful, I Go to my Favorite Local Game Store and buy the hardcopy version, full price. I do this because I want to support my FLGS and I want to Support WOTC.
This is the same reason why I bought Sins of a Solar Empire when I could easily have pirated it. This is the same reason that I bought Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog on DVD when it's available for Free on the Internet. The truth of the matter is that if you want a company to survive, you need to purchase it's products. Failure to do so means that one does not care about the company, or simply does not want the company to continue it's current practices or survive.
There is such a thing as customer loyalty, and as it is, I am someone who follows that model. It's something that I think a great many people fail to realize, if you don't give money to a company, that company can not produce more product. I will fully admit that I Pirate EVERY 4e book that comes out. But if I find the Book useful, I Go to my Favorite Local Game Store and buy the hardcopy version, full price. I do this because I want to support my FLGS and I want to Support WOTC.
No I agree completely. Thats why the internet subscription model works so well. WotC doesn't need to plea with their userbase to pay for the books or rely on players such as you or I to "do the right thing".
As the shiftkitty above you pointed out, the books are not going anywhere but if the expectation is that players are going to be getting the book content early through monthly DDI releases then only the die hard book fans (or anti computer players) will be purchasing the books and any pirating done after that point would be done by people who never would have purchased the information in the first place.
To be clear, I am not arguing that the online content is nessessarily superior for all players (it is for me but I am a computer nerd :D ) only that it is a superior product distribution model for WotC. With the right amount of attention and focus it could easily provide enough in sales from reoccuring monthly subscriptions to pay for development of D&D and then all subsquent book sales could just be icing on the cake.
Time will tell if I am on the right track but I bet that will will see a lot more focus on DDI and the monthly subscription.
The only thing that I'm worried about is if WotC starts to go more and more digital, especially with the current DRM environment...
Can you imagine what would happen if WotC distributed all of its books digitally, and they all came with Securom?
Can you imagine what would happen if WotC distributed all of its books digitally, and they all came with Securom?
If they are clear headed about it, WotC will realize that their market for digital content consists solely of those people who are willing to pay for a monthly subscription or who are willing to pay per purchase. People outside of those groups who manage to get their hands on WotC material where never going to pay for it. The bean counters would then understand that doing anything to protect digial content that added cost or complexity would actually cost them money rather then make it.
That all aside, pirates actually serve a use to WotC by providing additional players in the D&D community which helps to increase demand for thier product (more people with the information, more groups that can form, etc,etc). Not that this excuses the piracy but WotC should really look at the economics of of things before going the DRM route.
I also think that WotC needs to be very realistic about how long the information that they release has value for. Because of the community that exists and all the methods that help transmit that information, it will only have value for a precious few weeks. That is also part of the reason that I am happy with the timed release of PHB3 through DDI. From a theft point of view the book release will have all old information. I have a feeling they get this from the fact that they are releasing Keep on the Shadowfell free.
Yeah, So if WotC is smart about it they will be the ones to show the Music, TV/Movie, and computer game companies how to survive in this new digital economy.
I don't doubt that WotC has an Amazing opportunity here to find a creative and successful way to stem Piracy and encourage the sales of their product, but they're going to have to be careful to not let their methods destroy them.