Dark Sun predictions? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gadren May 30, 2010 2:30:03	So, what do we know about Dark Sun 4e thus far? All I've seen is the product description: Explore a savage, wondrous world. Aimed at players and Dungeon Masters, this game supplement explores the heroes and wonders of Athas—a savage desert world abandoned by the gods and ruled by terrible sorcerer-kings. Use it to build Dark Sun heroes and thrilling D&D adventures set in the Seven Cities of the Tyr Region, the Ivory Triangle, the Sea of Silt, and monster-infested wastelands—or plunder it for your own D&D campaign! The Dark Sun Campaign Setting provides exciting character options for D&D players, including new races, new character themes and class builds, new paragon paths and epic destinies, and new equipment. It also provides everything Dungeon Masters need to run 4th Edition Dark Sun campaigns or include Dark Sun elements in their homebrew campaigns. It has rules and advice for handling survival challenges, arena encounters, desert terrain, and adventure creation. It also presents a short, ready-to-play introductory adventure.
#2 calronmoonflower May 30, 2010 3:19:51	4E Information with Sources
#3 yellerSumner May 30, 2010 3:39:38	Dark Sun pregens from DNDXP. www.wizards.com/dnd/files/DNDXP_Characte... There will be new builds, I'm not sure if they'll be for all classes or just some. In addition, each character will pick a theme and get at least one additional power from it. I can't recall if it was from this or if there was another set of Dark Sun characters which some people reverse engineered the idea that races would have a stat choice before the PH3 was released. I know there've been some blogs on it by one of the designers, but I keep forgetting who. You can probably find more info on the Dark Sun board. community.wizards.com/go/forum/view/7588...
#4 Dragon9 May 30, 2010 21:46:49	So does this mean that Dark Sun will be the first 4e campaign setting to not introduce a new character class? That is kind of disappointing. We've known this for a long time.
#5 gadren May 30, 2010 21:55:03	So does this mean that Dark Sun will be the first 4e campaign setting to not introduce a new character class? That is kind of disappointing. We've known this for a long time. Who is "we"? I didn't know. The D&Ders who I was talking with before I came here hadn't heard.
#6 ah_stormbringer May 31, 2010 4:18:47	It was anounced sometime ago. There would no new classes in dark sun, just new builds for existing classes. I am surprised more people are not unhappy about the creators refluffing the goliath to be the half giant. You will see the tri-kreen and the Mul as new player races though.
#7 Duke5150 May 31, 2010 5:26:03	I am surprised more people are not unhappy about the creators refluffing the goliath to be the half giant. We're not allowed- it's not supported (officially) to use large races, so it makes sense according to the rules. Personally, I just think of goliaths as a cousin race to halfgiants and not actual halfgiants. In my darksun, halfgiants will be a monster race and goliaths will be a player race. Both kin to athasian giants. If players want to call their goliath a halfgiant, that's fine. A halfelf can call itself a human or an elf and a mul can call itself a dwarf or a human. Whatever makes the players happy. But getting the rest of the world (npcs) to call them the same is a different story. [edit] Minotaurs will also be a cousin race to athasian giants, IMG. At least at this time, that's my plan.
#8 DanTracker May 31, 2010 6:12:51	there will be a sorcer-king pact build for warlocks. also, templars are going to fall under a character theme. the theme is different than a background and different than a build and different than a class. the theme is in addition to a background, class, and build. it will offer additional powers similar to gaining a power from multiclass, heritage, bloodline, etc.; however, it is not gained by feat. it becomes a step in character creation that falls after class choice. thus, a warlord, rogue, warlock, or fighter might all choose to be a templar--one of the sorcerer-king's personal elite guard. each would then gain a single power that gives the feel of being the stormtrooper for the srocerer-king. other powers would come from race, class, paragon path, etc. as normal. some other themes include wilder, gladiator, wasteland nomad, noble adept. each give a single power (from what i've seen among the D&D:E pre-gens it is encounter power) which is added to the list of powers. it does not replace existing powers. i think this is a fantastic way to give Dark Sun a unique new application of a character choice. FR has spellscar, Eberron has dragonmark, Dark Sun will have themes. the thri-kreen and mul are both being introduced as new races for this setting. both are also available as pre-gens for D&D:E. I am very pleased with the build of the thri-kreen. i'm unable to pick out the racial benefits of Mul, but Thri-kreen can make limited use of the multiple arms to hold/draw/stow weapons/implements/items and they can use their claws as natural weapon which cause 1d4 damage on hit.
#9 ranadiel May 31, 2010 6:31:18	the theme is in addition to a background, class, and build. it will offer additional powers similar to gaining a power from multiclass, heritage, bloodline, etc.; however, it is not gained by feat. it becomes a step in character creation that falls after class choice. thus, a warlord, rogue, warlock, or fighter might all choose to be a templar--one of the sorcerer-king's personal elite guard. each would then gain a single power that gives the feel of being the stormtrooper for the srocerer-king. other powers would come from race, class, paragon path, etc. as normal. some other themes include wilder, gladiator, wasteland nomad, noble adept. each give a single power (from what i've seen among the D&D:E pre-gens it is encounter power) which is added to the list of powers. it does not replace existing powers. i think this is a fantastic way to give Dark Sun a unique new application of a character choice. FR has spellscar, Eberron has dragonmark, Dark Sun will have themes. I've seen mention in some blog posts by Rich Baker that themes will also have some powers that you can take instead of class powers at higher levels. I don't know how many of these powers there will be though. Personally I am hoping that, like FR backgrounds, themes will become part of the game at large come the next PHB because it really looks like it can be a great mechanic.
#10 Marandahir May 31, 2010 9:35:01	Templar's an Arcane theme, so Warlords wouldn't be able to choose it. Many themes are tied to power sources.
#11 prickly May 31, 2010 10:03:03	Templar's an Arcane theme, so Warlords wouldn't be able to choose it. Many themes are tied to power sources. Actually I believe that not to be the case at all. I believe Rich baker stated somewhere (possibly at the DnD XP Dark Sun panel), that Warlords would make pretty good templars and that the fighter, ranger, barbarian and Battlemind would be ideal for Gladiators I think the whole purpose of themes is that they place the more abstract concept of classes into more concrete roles in the world
#12 DanTracker May 31, 2010 10:23:54	in the D&D:E materials, the theme of templar was given some mention. It is a fantastic option for a sorcerer-king pact warlock; however, it is a theme that warlords, rogues, rangers, fighters, etc. could all take advantage of and develop. as another poster mentioned, i have also seen that you can take theme powers instead of class powers and that some themes will be pre-req to some paragon paths. it did not appear that themes are directly tied to power sources. however, i can understand if some themes are more fitting to certain power sources than others. although i really like the concept, i hope that its application remains a Dark Sun icon, as spellscar and dragonmark are fitting for the Forgotten Realms and Eberron respectively. ti might dilute the Dark Sun setting if themes began to be developed for other settings as well.
#13 ranadiel May 31, 2010 11:50:50	Templar's an Arcane theme, so Warlords wouldn't be able to choose it. Many themes are tied to power sources. Actually I think that themes have either zero pre-reqs or easily met pre-reqs as Rich Baker stated that "there's no reason your fighter or rogue couldn’t be a templar." although i really like the concept, i hope that its application remains a Dark Sun icon, as spellscar and dragonmark are fitting for the Forgotten Realms and Eberron respectively. ti might dilute the Dark Sun setting if themes began to be developed for other settings as well. Did having backgrounds added in the PHB2 really dilute FR? Just have a more refined version of themes for the PHB4. It is a great mechanic that could be used for a large number of broad ideas that extend beyond th relam of Dark Sun. A good mechanic that makes sense every where shouldn't be limited to just one setting because they happened to think it up first.
#14 gadren May 31, 2010 12:04:06	Templar's an Arcane theme, so Warlords wouldn't be able to choose it. Many themes are tied to power sources. Actually I think that themes have either zero pre-reqs or easily met pre-reqs as Rich Baker stated that "there's no reason your fighter or rogue couldn’t be a templar." although i really like the concept, i hope that its application remains a Dark Sun icon, as spellscar and dragonmark are fitting for the Forgotten Realms and Eberron respectively. ti might dilute the Dark Sun setting if themes began to be developed for other settings as well. Did having backgrounds added in the PHB2 really dilute FR? Just have a more refined version of themes for the PHB4. It is a great mechanic that could be used for a large number of broad ideas that extend beyond th relam of Dark Sun. A good mechanic that makes sense every where shouldn't be limited to just one setting because they happened to think it up first. Does anyone else read "theme" but keep thinking "kit"?
#15 ranadiel May 31, 2010 12:35:05	Does anyone else read "theme" but keep thinking "kit"? I don't know where you get that idea from. Rich Baker's Blog: Strangely enough, themes remind me a lot of 2nd Edition’s character kits. One of the things that always bugged me back in 2nd Edition was that character kits such as “pirate” were repeated over and over again in the various splatbooks—there was a piratey kit for the fighter, one for the rogue, one for the ranger, and so on. Our 4th Edition themes aren’t quite that class-specific; there’s one gladiator theme, not a gladiator for every class. Clearly you are the only person who think that and are therefore insane. :P
#16 DanTracker May 31, 2010 13:09:40	[Did having backgrounds added in the PHB2 really dilute FR? Just have a more refined version of themes for the PHB4. It is a great mechanic that could be used for a large number of broad ideas that extend beyond th relam of Dark Sun. A good mechanic that makes sense every where shouldn't be limited to just one setting because they happened to think it up first. that's true. there are certainly much more iconic feature of Dark Sun that will stand out from other settings regardless of the themes being developed for use in core or on other settings. in fact, themes might be great to help create more unique settings. For Example, templar is a theme of Dark Sun that wouldn't make as much sense for FR nor EB. Elemental Priest might be able to fit in other settings, and certainly gladiator can fit in other settings, but (if it were to exist) Ravenloft would be a great place for a Vampire Hunter theme, or Dreadlord theme that migth not be so applicable in other settings. in fact, there are lots of ways that FR and EB could be further develpoed if there were some themes designed for those settings that could mix between generic and setting flavored themes. spellscar is a bit of a niche crowd and dragonmarks carry lots of RP fluff. A simple theme that leads a character toward a PP goal could give more depth to the setting. also, DMs working on a homebrew setting could easily cherry-pick among the existing themes to encourage players to find a few character concepts that are most fitting to their homebrew.
#17 _Mithreinmaethor_ May 31, 2010 16:59:53	Templar's an Arcane theme, so Warlords wouldn't be able to choose it. Many themes are tied to power sources. Actually I think that themes have either zero pre-reqs or easily met pre-reqs as Rich Baker stated that "there's no reason your fighter or rogue couldn’t be a templar." although i really like the concept, i hope that its application remains a Dark Sun icon, as spellscar and dragonmark are fitting for the Forgotten Realms and Eberron respectively. ti might dilute the Dark Sun setting if themes began to be developed for other settings as well. Did having backgrounds added in the PHB2 really dilute FR? Just have a more refined version of themes for the PHB4. It is a great mechanic that could be used for a large number of broad ideas that extend beyond th relam of Dark Sun. A good mechanic that makes sense every where shouldn't be limited to just one setting because they happened to think it up first. Does anyone else read "theme" but keep thinking "kit"? Nope its just you.
#18 gadren May 31, 2010 17:10:49	Templar's an Arcane theme, so Warlords wouldn't be able to choose it. Many themes are tied to power sources. Actually I think that themes have either zero pre-reqs or easily met pre-reqs as Rich Baker stated that "there's no reason your fighter or rogue couldn’t be a templar." although i really like the concept, i hope that its application remains a Dark Sun icon, as spellscar and dragonmark are fitting for the Forgotten Realms and Eberron respectively. ti might dilute the Dark Sun setting if themes began to be developed for other settings as well. Did having backgrounds added in the PHB2 really dilute FR? Just have a more refined version of themes for the PHB4. It is a great mechanic that could be used for a large number of broad ideas that extend beyond th relam of Dark Sun. A good mechanic that makes sense every where shouldn't be limited to just one setting because they happened to think it up first. Does anyone else read "theme" but keep thinking "kit"? Nope its just you. Just me and Rich Baker, apparently.
#19 Marandahir May 31, 2010 20:11:02	Well, it doesn't change that Templars are Arcane. Templar Theme has an Arcane power. Of course, the Arcane Trickster and other PPaths are Arcane without being for an Arcane class, so I guess you can get an Arcane power by being a Templar, regardless of your core Power Source.
#20 red_scare87 Jun 01, 2010 2:56:48	Templar's an Arcane theme, so Warlords wouldn't be able to choose it. Many themes are tied to power sources. Actually I think that themes have either zero pre-reqs or easily met pre-reqs as Rich Baker stated that "there's no reason your fighter or rogue couldn’t be a templar." although i really like the concept, i hope that its application remains a Dark Sun icon, as spellscar and dragonmark are fitting for the Forgotten Realms and Eberron respectively. ti might dilute the Dark Sun setting if themes began to be developed for other settings as well. Did having backgrounds added in the PHB2 really dilute FR? Just have a more refined version of themes for the PHB4. It is a great mechanic that could be used for a large number of broad ideas that extend beyond th relam of Dark Sun. A good mechanic that makes sense every where shouldn't be limited to just one setting because they happened to think it up first. Does anyone else read "theme" but keep thinking "kit"? Wow. I actually had not thought of that, but there do seem to be a lot of similarities. I think this is a great thing, I really miss kits and had been hoping that something akin to them would be implemented at some point.
#21 nightwalker450 Jun 01, 2010 13:47:59	i'm unable to pick out the racial benefits of Mul, but Thri-kreen can make limited use of the multiple arms to hold/draw/stow weapons/implements/items and they can use their claws as natural weapon which cause 1d4 damage on hit. Actually I've got everything on Muls now, except for validation of Dual Heritage. As to theme's, they strike me more as Paragon Paths/Epic Destinies but at the Heroic level.
#22 DanTracker Jun 01, 2010 13:58:50	i know that there wasn't a name before, but i'd like a cool racial name for half-elves.
#23 Nyarlathotep Jun 01, 2010 14:12:12	i'm unable to pick out the racial benefits of Mul, but Thri-kreen can make limited use of the multiple arms to hold/draw/stow weapons/implements/items and they can use their claws as natural weapon which cause 1d4 damage on hit. Actually I've got everything on Muls now, except for validation of Dual Heritage. As to theme's, they strike me more as Paragon Paths/Epic Destinies but at the Heroic level. I think that is probably the closest analogy. Though I wonder if the themes give you a few benefits spread out over many levels (ala a PP or ED) or if its just a one time thing.
#24 teamfireyleader Jun 01, 2010 16:27:02	Well we know that we have Three Keens. It was mentioned in the top 10 monsters to be remade in the MM3 articles. www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4... #4 EDIT: added the link for any who hadn't seen it already. (You need DDi)
#25 Marandahir Jun 01, 2010 17:56:23	We actually have been able to piece together most everything on Thri-Kreen too. I'm too busy right now to go dredge up the information, though.
#26 KoboldAvenger Jun 02, 2010 0:34:51	I remember there was a mention that there would be about 10 themes in the Dark Sun Campaign Setting. And that they were thinking of possibly bringing themes outside of Dark Sun. I could see there at least being a Dragon Article on themes. Themes such as Gladiator, Wilder and Noble Adept are the more generic ones. But I see many themes as being very campaign specific, such as Templar and Veiled Alliance certainly are in Dark Sun. I certainly don't see those fitting into FR or Eberron, but a Harper theme might work with FR, and an Inquisitive or Gatekeeper theme might work for Eberron. If Planescape became a 4e setting there would probably be ones based on the factions.
#27 Omnirahk_half-Rahkshi Jun 02, 2010 8:05:11	You know, I really would like to see themes for the various druidic sects in Eberron. Gatekeeper you can play by the paragon path, child of winter with the swarm druid, and I guess ashbound with summoning. But they could be developed further. Like greensinger pretty much requires a bard multiclass, likely going prescient to keep down on the MAD. Considering the number of sects, that really feels better for a Dragon article though - better to start with a wider array of Eberron themes.
#28 nightwalker450 Jun 02, 2010 12:37:06	i'm unable to pick out the racial benefits of Mul, but Thri-kreen can make limited use of the multiple arms to hold/draw/stow weapons/implements/items and they can use their claws as natural weapon which cause 1d4 damage on hit. Actually I've got everything on Muls now, except for validation of Dual Heritage. As to theme's, they strike me more as Paragon Paths/Epic Destinies but at the Heroic level. I think that is probably the closest analogy. Though I wonder if the themes give you a few benefits spread out over many levels (ala a PP or ED) or if its just a one time thing. Unfortunately I've yet to see themes anywhere except on level 1 characters... So no idea if it will progress further, but I'd hope so. At least a utility power (more utility powers are always good in my mind), and maybe a trait (just nothing too big no attack bonuses, and no damage bonuses).
#29 mysticbelmont Jun 05, 2010 13:42:37	I wonder if themes will give a bonus to certain skills, or even a trained skill?
#30 ascottbay Jun 05, 2010 14:23:37	Though I wonder if the themes give you a few benefits spread out over many levels (ala a PP or ED) or if its just a one time thing. Unfortunately I've yet to see themes anywhere except on level 1 characters... So no idea if it will progress further, but I'd hope so. At least a utility power (more utility powers are always good in my mind), and maybe a trait (just nothing too big no attack bonuses, and no damage bonuses). From WotC_RichBaker's blog: When you choose a theme, you get an encounter power for that theme, and you have the option of taking additional powers out of that theme at higher levels by swapping out class powers for theme powers (with a few limits). Themes can also serve as prereqs for feats and paragon paths. ... Becoming a templar means that you gain at least a modest ability to wield the king’s magic (that’s your theme encounter power), and of course you might decide to color your power selection at higher levels with the occasional templar power in place of your fighter or rogue powers. ;)

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

gadren

May 30, 2010 2:30:03

So, what do we know about Dark Sun 4e thus far? All I've seen is the product description:

Explore a savage, wondrous world.

Aimed at players and Dungeon Masters, this game supplement explores the heroes and wonders of Athas—a savage desert world abandoned by the gods and ruled by terrible sorcerer-kings. Use it to build Dark Sun heroes and thrilling D&D adventures set in the Seven Cities of the Tyr Region, the Ivory Triangle, the Sea of Silt, and monster-infested wastelands—or plunder it for your own D&D campaign!

The Dark Sun Campaign Setting provides exciting character options for D&D players, including new races, new character themes and class builds, new paragon paths and epic destinies, and new equipment. It also provides everything Dungeon Masters need to run 4th Edition Dark Sun campaigns or include Dark Sun elements in their homebrew campaigns. It has rules and advice for handling survival challenges, arena encounters, desert terrain, and adventure creation. It also presents a short, ready-to-play introductory adventure.

calronmoonflower

May 30, 2010 3:19:51

4E Information with Sources

yellerSumner

May 30, 2010 3:39:38

Dark Sun pregens from DNDXP. www.wizards.com/dnd/files/DNDXP_Characte...

There will be new builds, I'm not sure if they'll be for all classes or just some. In addition, each character will pick a theme and get at least one additional power from it.

I can't recall if it was from this or if there was another set of Dark Sun characters which some people reverse engineered the idea that races would have a stat choice before the PH3 was released.

I know there've been some blogs on it by one of the designers, but I keep forgetting who. You can probably find more info on the Dark Sun board. community.wizards.com/go/forum/view/7588...

Dragon9

May 30, 2010 21:46:49

So does this mean that Dark Sun will be the first 4e campaign setting to not introduce a new character class? That is kind of disappointing.

We've known this for a long time.

gadren

May 30, 2010 21:55:03

So does this mean that Dark Sun will be the first 4e campaign setting to not introduce a new character class? That is kind of disappointing.

We've known this for a long time.

Who is "we"?
I didn't know. The D&Ders who I was talking with before I came here hadn't heard.

ah_stormbringer

May 31, 2010 4:18:47

It was anounced sometime ago. There would no new classes in dark sun, just new builds for existing classes. I am surprised more people are not unhappy about the creators refluffing the goliath to be the half giant. You will see the tri-kreen and the Mul as new player races though.

Duke5150

May 31, 2010 5:26:03

I am surprised more people are not unhappy about the creators refluffing the goliath to be the half giant.

We're not allowed- it's not supported (officially) to use large races, so it makes sense according to the rules. Personally, I just think of goliaths as a cousin race to halfgiants and not actual halfgiants. In my darksun, halfgiants will be a monster race and goliaths will be a player race. Both kin to athasian giants. If players want to call their goliath a halfgiant, that's fine. A halfelf can call itself a human or an elf and a mul can call itself a dwarf or a human. Whatever makes the players happy.

But getting the rest of the world (npcs) to call them the same is a different story.

[edit] Minotaurs will also be a cousin race to athasian giants, IMG. At least at this time, that's my plan.

DanTracker

May 31, 2010 6:12:51

there will be a sorcer-king pact build for warlocks. also, templars are going to fall under a character theme. the theme is different than a background and different than a build and different than a class.

the theme is in addition to a background, class, and build. it will offer additional powers similar to gaining a power from multiclass, heritage, bloodline, etc.; however, it is not gained by feat. it becomes a step in character creation that falls after class choice.

thus, a warlord, rogue, warlock, or fighter might all choose to be a templar--one of the sorcerer-king's personal elite guard. each would then gain a single power that gives the feel of being the stormtrooper for the srocerer-king. other powers would come from race, class, paragon path, etc. as normal.

some other themes include wilder, gladiator, wasteland nomad, noble adept. each give a single power (from what i've seen among the D&D:E pre-gens it is encounter power) which is added to the list of powers. it does not replace existing powers.

i think this is a fantastic way to give Dark Sun a unique new application of a character choice. FR has spellscar, Eberron has dragonmark, Dark Sun will have themes.

the thri-kreen and mul are both being introduced as new races for this setting. both are also available as pre-gens for D&D:E. I am very pleased with the build of the thri-kreen. i'm unable to pick out the racial benefits of Mul, but Thri-kreen can make limited use of the multiple arms to hold/draw/stow weapons/implements/items and they can use their claws as natural weapon which cause 1d4 damage on hit.

ranadiel

May 31, 2010 6:31:18

the theme is in addition to a background, class, and build. it will offer additional powers similar to gaining a power from multiclass, heritage, bloodline, etc.; however, it is not gained by feat. it becomes a step in character creation that falls after class choice.

thus, a warlord, rogue, warlock, or fighter might all choose to be a templar--one of the sorcerer-king's personal elite guard. each would then gain a single power that gives the feel of being the stormtrooper for the srocerer-king. other powers would come from race, class, paragon path, etc. as normal.

some other themes include wilder, gladiator, wasteland nomad, noble adept. each give a single power (from what i've seen among the D&D:E pre-gens it is encounter power) which is added to the list of powers. it does not replace existing powers.

i think this is a fantastic way to give Dark Sun a unique new application of a character choice. FR has spellscar, Eberron has dragonmark, Dark Sun will have themes.

I've seen mention in some blog posts by Rich Baker that themes will also have some powers that you can take instead of class powers at higher levels. I don't know how many of these powers there will be though. Personally I am hoping that, like FR backgrounds, themes will become part of the game at large come the next PHB because it really looks like it can be a great mechanic.

#10

Marandahir

May 31, 2010 9:35:01

Templar's an Arcane theme, so Warlords wouldn't be able to choose it.

Many themes are tied to power sources.

#11

prickly

May 31, 2010 10:03:03

Templar's an Arcane theme, so Warlords wouldn't be able to choose it.

Many themes are tied to power sources.

Actually I believe that not to be the case at all.

I believe Rich baker stated somewhere (possibly at the DnD XP Dark Sun panel), that Warlords would make pretty good templars and that the fighter, ranger, barbarian and Battlemind would be ideal for Gladiators

I think the whole purpose of themes is that they place the more abstract concept of classes into more concrete roles in the world

#12

DanTracker

May 31, 2010 10:23:54

in the D&D:E materials, the theme of templar was given some mention. It is a fantastic option for a sorcerer-king pact warlock; however, it is a theme that warlords, rogues, rangers, fighters, etc. could all take advantage of and develop.

as another poster mentioned, i have also seen that you can take theme powers instead of class powers and that some themes will be pre-req to some paragon paths.

it did not appear that themes are directly tied to power sources. however, i can understand if some themes are more fitting to certain power sources than others.

although i really like the concept, i hope that its application remains a Dark Sun icon, as spellscar and dragonmark are fitting for the Forgotten Realms and Eberron respectively. ti might dilute the Dark Sun setting if themes began to be developed for other settings as well.

#13

ranadiel

May 31, 2010 11:50:50

Templar's an Arcane theme, so Warlords wouldn't be able to choose it.

Many themes are tied to power sources.

Actually I think that themes have either zero pre-reqs or easily met pre-reqs as Rich Baker stated that "there's no reason your fighter or rogue couldn’t be a templar."

although i really like the concept, i hope that its application remains a Dark Sun icon, as spellscar and dragonmark are fitting for the Forgotten Realms and Eberron respectively. ti might dilute the Dark Sun setting if themes began to be developed for other settings as well.

Did having backgrounds added in the PHB2 really dilute FR? Just have a more refined version of themes for the PHB4. It is a great mechanic that could be used for a large number of broad ideas that extend beyond th relam of Dark Sun. A good mechanic that makes sense every where shouldn't be limited to just one setting because they happened to think it up first.

#14

gadren

May 31, 2010 12:04:06

Templar's an Arcane theme, so Warlords wouldn't be able to choose it.

Many themes are tied to power sources.

Actually I think that themes have either zero pre-reqs or easily met pre-reqs as Rich Baker stated that "there's no reason your fighter or rogue couldn’t be a templar."

although i really like the concept, i hope that its application remains a Dark Sun icon, as spellscar and dragonmark are fitting for the Forgotten Realms and Eberron respectively. ti might dilute the Dark Sun setting if themes began to be developed for other settings as well.

Did having backgrounds added in the PHB2 really dilute FR? Just have a more refined version of themes for the PHB4. It is a great mechanic that could be used for a large number of broad ideas that extend beyond th relam of Dark Sun. A good mechanic that makes sense every where shouldn't be limited to just one setting because they happened to think it up first.

Does anyone else read "theme" but keep thinking "kit"?

#15

ranadiel

May 31, 2010 12:35:05

Does anyone else read "theme" but keep thinking "kit"?

I don't know where you get that idea from.

Rich Baker's Blog:

Strangely enough, themes remind me a lot of 2nd Edition’s character kits. One of the things that always bugged me back in 2nd Edition was that character kits such as “pirate” were repeated over and over again in the various splatbooks—there was a piratey kit for the fighter, one for the rogue, one for the ranger, and so on. Our 4th Edition themes aren’t quite that class-specific; there’s one gladiator theme, not a gladiator for every class.

Clearly you are the only person who think that and are therefore insane. :P

#16

DanTracker

May 31, 2010 13:09:40

[Did having backgrounds added in the PHB2 really dilute FR? Just have a more refined version of themes for the PHB4. It is a great mechanic that could be used for a large number of broad ideas that extend beyond th relam of Dark Sun. A good mechanic that makes sense every where shouldn't be limited to just one setting because they happened to think it up first.

that's true. there are certainly much more iconic feature of Dark Sun that will stand out from other settings regardless of the themes being developed for use in core or on other settings. in fact, themes might be great to help create more unique settings. For Example, templar is a theme of Dark Sun that wouldn't make as much sense for FR nor EB. Elemental Priest might be able to fit in other settings, and certainly gladiator can fit in other settings, but (if it were to exist) Ravenloft would be a great place for a Vampire Hunter theme, or Dreadlord theme that migth not be so applicable in other settings.

in fact, there are lots of ways that FR and EB could be further develpoed if there were some themes designed for those settings that could mix between generic and setting flavored themes. spellscar is a bit of a niche crowd and dragonmarks carry lots of RP fluff. A simple theme that leads a character toward a PP goal could give more depth to the setting.

also, DMs working on a homebrew setting could easily cherry-pick among the existing themes to encourage players to find a few character concepts that are most fitting to their homebrew.

#17

_Mithreinmaethor_

May 31, 2010 16:59:53

Templar's an Arcane theme, so Warlords wouldn't be able to choose it.

Many themes are tied to power sources.

Actually I think that themes have either zero pre-reqs or easily met pre-reqs as Rich Baker stated that "there's no reason your fighter or rogue couldn’t be a templar."

although i really like the concept, i hope that its application remains a Dark Sun icon, as spellscar and dragonmark are fitting for the Forgotten Realms and Eberron respectively. ti might dilute the Dark Sun setting if themes began to be developed for other settings as well.

Did having backgrounds added in the PHB2 really dilute FR? Just have a more refined version of themes for the PHB4. It is a great mechanic that could be used for a large number of broad ideas that extend beyond th relam of Dark Sun. A good mechanic that makes sense every where shouldn't be limited to just one setting because they happened to think it up first.

Does anyone else read "theme" but keep thinking "kit"?

Nope its just you.

#18

gadren

May 31, 2010 17:10:49

Templar's an Arcane theme, so Warlords wouldn't be able to choose it.

Many themes are tied to power sources.

Actually I think that themes have either zero pre-reqs or easily met pre-reqs as Rich Baker stated that "there's no reason your fighter or rogue couldn’t be a templar."

although i really like the concept, i hope that its application remains a Dark Sun icon, as spellscar and dragonmark are fitting for the Forgotten Realms and Eberron respectively. ti might dilute the Dark Sun setting if themes began to be developed for other settings as well.

Did having backgrounds added in the PHB2 really dilute FR? Just have a more refined version of themes for the PHB4. It is a great mechanic that could be used for a large number of broad ideas that extend beyond th relam of Dark Sun. A good mechanic that makes sense every where shouldn't be limited to just one setting because they happened to think it up first.

Does anyone else read "theme" but keep thinking "kit"?

Nope its just you.

Just me and Rich Baker, apparently.

#19

Marandahir

May 31, 2010 20:11:02

Well, it doesn't change that Templars are Arcane.

Templar Theme has an Arcane power.

Of course, the Arcane Trickster and other PPaths are Arcane without being for an Arcane class, so I guess you can get an Arcane power by being a Templar, regardless of your core Power Source.

#20

red_scare87

Jun 01, 2010 2:56:48

Templar's an Arcane theme, so Warlords wouldn't be able to choose it.

Many themes are tied to power sources.

Actually I think that themes have either zero pre-reqs or easily met pre-reqs as Rich Baker stated that "there's no reason your fighter or rogue couldn’t be a templar."

although i really like the concept, i hope that its application remains a Dark Sun icon, as spellscar and dragonmark are fitting for the Forgotten Realms and Eberron respectively. ti might dilute the Dark Sun setting if themes began to be developed for other settings as well.

Did having backgrounds added in the PHB2 really dilute FR? Just have a more refined version of themes for the PHB4. It is a great mechanic that could be used for a large number of broad ideas that extend beyond th relam of Dark Sun. A good mechanic that makes sense every where shouldn't be limited to just one setting because they happened to think it up first.

Does anyone else read "theme" but keep thinking "kit"?

Wow. I actually had not thought of that, but there do seem to be a lot of similarities. I think this is a great thing, I really miss kits and had been hoping that something akin to them would be implemented at some point.

#21

nightwalker450

Jun 01, 2010 13:47:59

i'm unable to pick out the racial benefits of Mul, but Thri-kreen can make limited use of the multiple arms to hold/draw/stow weapons/implements/items and they can use their claws as natural weapon which cause 1d4 damage on hit.

Actually I've got everything on Muls now, except for validation of Dual Heritage.

As to theme's, they strike me more as Paragon Paths/Epic Destinies but at the Heroic level.

#22

DanTracker

Jun 01, 2010 13:58:50

i know that there wasn't a name before, but i'd like a cool racial name for half-elves.

#23

Nyarlathotep

Jun 01, 2010 14:12:12

i'm unable to pick out the racial benefits of Mul, but Thri-kreen can make limited use of the multiple arms to hold/draw/stow weapons/implements/items and they can use their claws as natural weapon which cause 1d4 damage on hit.

Actually I've got everything on Muls now, except for validation of Dual Heritage.

As to theme's, they strike me more as Paragon Paths/Epic Destinies but at the Heroic level.

I think that is probably the closest analogy. Though I wonder if the themes give you a few benefits spread out over many levels (ala a PP or ED) or if its just a one time thing.

#24

teamfireyleader

Jun 01, 2010 16:27:02

Well we know that we have Three Keens. It was mentioned in the top 10 monsters to be remade in the MM3 articles.

www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4...

#4

EDIT: added the link for any who hadn't seen it already. (You need DDi)

#25

Marandahir

Jun 01, 2010 17:56:23

We actually have been able to piece together most everything on Thri-Kreen too. I'm too busy right now to go dredge up the information, though.

#26

KoboldAvenger

Jun 02, 2010 0:34:51

I remember there was a mention that there would be about 10 themes in the Dark Sun Campaign Setting. And that they were thinking of possibly bringing themes outside of Dark Sun.

I could see there at least being a Dragon Article on themes. Themes such as Gladiator, Wilder and Noble Adept are the more generic ones. But I see many themes as being very campaign specific, such as Templar and Veiled Alliance certainly are in Dark Sun. I certainly don't see those fitting into FR or Eberron, but a Harper theme might work with FR, and an Inquisitive or Gatekeeper theme might work for Eberron. If Planescape became a 4e setting there would probably be ones based on the factions.

#27

Omnirahk_half-Rahkshi

Jun 02, 2010 8:05:11

You know, I really would like to see themes for the various druidic sects in Eberron. Gatekeeper you can play by the paragon path, child of winter with the swarm druid, and I guess ashbound with summoning. But they could be developed further. Like greensinger pretty much requires a bard multiclass, likely going prescient to keep down on the MAD. Considering the number of sects, that really feels better for a Dragon article though - better to start with a wider array of Eberron themes.

#28

nightwalker450

Jun 02, 2010 12:37:06

i'm unable to pick out the racial benefits of Mul, but Thri-kreen can make limited use of the multiple arms to hold/draw/stow weapons/implements/items and they can use their claws as natural weapon which cause 1d4 damage on hit.

Actually I've got everything on Muls now, except for validation of Dual Heritage.

As to theme's, they strike me more as Paragon Paths/Epic Destinies but at the Heroic level.

I think that is probably the closest analogy. Though I wonder if the themes give you a few benefits spread out over many levels (ala a PP or ED) or if its just a one time thing.

Unfortunately I've yet to see themes anywhere except on level 1 characters... So no idea if it will progress further, but I'd hope so. At least a utility power (more utility powers are always good in my mind), and maybe a trait (just nothing too big no attack bonuses, and no damage bonuses).

#29

mysticbelmont

Jun 05, 2010 13:42:37

I wonder if themes will give a bonus to certain skills, or even a trained skill?

#30

ascottbay

Jun 05, 2010 14:23:37

Though I wonder if the themes give you a few benefits spread out over many levels (ala a PP or ED) or if its just a one time thing.

Unfortunately I've yet to see themes anywhere except on level 1 characters... So no idea if it will progress further, but I'd hope so. At least a utility power (more utility powers are always good in my mind), and maybe a trait (just nothing too big no attack bonuses, and no damage bonuses).

From WotC_RichBaker's blog:

When you choose a theme, you get an encounter power for that theme, and you have the option of taking additional powers out of that theme at higher levels by swapping out class powers for theme powers (with a few limits). Themes can also serve as prereqs for feats and paragon paths.
...
Becoming a templar means that you gain at least a modest ability to wield the king’s magic (that’s your theme encounter power), and of course you might decide to color your power selection at higher levels with the occasional templar power in place of your fighter or rogue powers.

;)