You get to see 1 of the monsters, the other 4 are completely random. So you get less monsters then the old D&D minis, but pay the same price.
AND its still collectible, but now its just not a stand alone game...sounds like a fail to me.
What does everyone else think?
Yes, it does suck for consumers that we now get fewer minis for the same price we did last year (although reports from people who've seen the minis in person indicate that the new line is, in fact, higher quality than previous sets). The reality is that miniatures have grown a lot more expensive to produce and ship over the past couple years, so we ought to be grateful that we even have access to such accurate, inexpensive minis. Being totally nonrandom would drive prices up and selection down dramatically; look at Reaper's prepainted minis line, which offer vastly fewer creature types and a much higher price per mini, all without being significantly higher in painting quality -- despite their website's pictures of the master paint-jobs for each mini, actually prepainted minis from Reaper are at least as hit-and-miss as WotC's prepaints are.
A product line can only ever provide two of the following: high quality, wide selection, and low price. Which two would you prefer?
Needless to say I told the owner of my FLGS that he shouldn't stock the Heroes packs with the rest of the DnD Minis boosters.
Do these things not have stat cards for the Minis game either? I was so ****** when I picked up Divine Heroes and all I got was minis and power cards. I wanted stat cards to play with in the battle game!
Needless to say I told the owner of my FLGS that he shouldn't stock the Heroes packs with the rest of the DnD Minis boosters.
They announced a long time ago they would no longer be supporting the minis battle game, so WOTC will not be providing battle cards for any of the new minis.
Sorry, thought you got the memo.
Do these things not have stat cards for the Minis game either? I was so ****** when I picked up Divine Heroes and all I got was minis and power cards. I wanted stat cards to play with in the battle game!
Needless to say I told the owner of my FLGS that he shouldn't stock the Heroes packs with the rest of the DnD Minis boosters.
You're a little bit late to the party, but all of the DDM stats for these minis are being released for free online by an officially licensed group called The Guild. (http://www.ddmguild.com/) For the time being at least, these guys are officially in charge of skirmish play for DDM, with a full blessing from WotC.
You should talk to JohnnyQuest, on the DDM boards. Not only is he a nice guy and highly knowledgeable about all aspects of DDM, but he's also one of the founding members of The Guild!
A product line can only ever provide two of the following: high quality, wide selection, and low price. Which two would you prefer?
I'd settle for just having *one* of those three, to start with :p
I'd settle for just having *one* of those three, to start with :p
lol Fair point. What I meant was that a product can only give a maximum of two of those things at best; there's no guarantee that there won't be less than two. :P
I've determined that with low quality paint jobs, high cost and no guarantee to get what I'm looking for, the Minis line was not made for me. I'll just cast resin tokens or something.
I love minis, but frankly, the cost is still too high for me. I have soo many minis now, and it still doesn't seem enough, no matter how many I already have. (Hundreds.) Thus, I've gotten into using counters; you can use artwork of the monsters to make perfect representations, then just print them out and glue them to pieces of cardboard or 1-inch washers, all for a tiny fraction of the price of minis.
I still say they can use the same logic as they do for Dungeon Tiles and make Monster Tiles the same way. Think about it, an entire Orc/Goblin/Kobold army, with leaders and brutes ("They have a Cave Troll") all on durable cardstock for $9.99. They could even have the flip side be the corpse version to show who has been killed and who is still standing. This would be perfect for the DM on a Budget, like me! :lightbulb
They have a few tokens (PC and monster) in the Starter Kit for 4e that also includes a short adventure and the basic rules for players and DMs as well as some dungeon tiles.
I think the Dangerous Delves method is an improvement over the old method but I don't see a point in the random packs for monsters for something that's only a support tool for 4e now. WotC's marketing has to get their heads around the concept of what a pnprpg is about and stop thinking in the way of CCG's which they're used to.
At least a case of the new mini sets will have 8 packs, 1 of each visibile mini so you can get most if not all the full set of 40 in a single case where older sets you only get half the rares per case so even with two cases you weren't likely to get more than 75% of the rares.
At least a case of the new mini sets will have 8 packs, 1 of each visibile mini so you can get most if not all the full set of 40 in a single case where older sets you only get half the rares per case so even with two cases you weren't likely to get more than 75% of the rares.
Given WotC past case packing methods and the statistical break down of this set, each case should contain (exactly 2 of each common, exactly 1 of each uncommon, exactly one of each visible, and half of the rares). So one case should net you 80% of the set (with doubles of all the commons). Personally I'm getting two cases, which statistical should net me around 90% of the set, and with some trading and a little luck 100% shouldn't be hard to pull off.
People are complaining now because the minis are semi-random packed.
If they switched over to completely non-random? You'd best believe that people would complain.
Kobolds, Goblins, Hobgoblins, and some Skeletons/Zombies. I'd buy like 4-5 of that same set even if they always had the same miniatures. Include some dungeon tiles or mapsheets and you'd be golden.
In the meantime I have a lot of GW miniatures I use and the counters from the beginner set. I'm thinking of buying the Heroic Tier monster counters from Fiery Dragon too.
Counters are just easier. I can get everything I want at once and not have to pre-plan everything.
If they switched over to completely non-random? You'd best believe that people would complain.
Not this people! Not by a long shot. I don't even know what the complaint might be. "There's no sense of surprise anymore," maybe?
Y'know, if randomization is that integral to selling minis, I'd be cool with a box of random undead. Random goblinoids. As long as I know I'm buying 10-20 dead-looking things or somehow related monsters, I'd be fine.
What does everyone else think?
Pros:
* 1 mini isn't random
* Minis are of better quality
Cons:
* Less minis per box.
I'd say they haven't made a better product, but they have made a product equally good.
Not this people! Not by a long shot. I don't even know what the complaint might be. "There's no sense of surprise anymore," maybe?
Nothing will ever please everyone.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1187154
You can't get what you need in these packs in the short term. You're better off spending the same cash getting them as singles in the used market.
They'd be better off theming sets a lot more. This set will have a lot of goblins. This set will have a lot of undead. This set will have a lot of Drow.
Not that ALL the miniatures in a set would be that. Just the majority would fit the theme. Because one kobold wyrmpriest is worthless to me. I have to go to ebay and grab a bunch of old stuff for more kobolds. And if I'm spending my money on that then why not spend all my money there?
So don't give me one drow in this set and then another in that set... give me 10 in this set, and then throw in some Drow related alllies/monsters. Then fill it out with stuff that supplement those.
If these tied in with a published adventure released at the same time so much the better.
If you're going to make the DDM line focus solely on the RPG then DO it. Commit all the way. The Heroes line is good if they fix their packaging issues. But the monster line still needs to think how a DM thinks. I hope after they've burned through the Feywild miniatures we'll see an improvement on this front when they can actually plan out the miniatures per set.
I love minis, but frankly, the cost is still too high for me. I have soo many minis now, and it still doesn't seem enough, no matter how many I already have. (Hundreds.) Thus, I've gotten into using counters; you can use artwork of the monsters to make perfect representations, then just print them out and glue them to pieces of cardboard or 1-inch washers, all for a tiny fraction of the price of minis.
I can have my wife cast colored resin discs of 1", 2" and 3" sizes. The resin pakage itself is about $10, the discs will be sturdy, and I'll get tons of them per box of resin goo. And I have 1",2" and 3" Circle Craft Punches. So I'm going to take sheet labels, print the images and punch them out, then adhere them to the discs. Green for Monsters, Blue for Characters, Grey for NPCs.
We are crafty people though. :D
You're a little bit late to the party, but all of the DDM stats for these minis are being released for free online by an officially licensed group called The Guild. (http://www.ddmguild.com/) For the time being at least, these guys are officially in charge of skirmish play for DDM, with a full blessing from WotC.
You should talk to JohnnyQuest, on the DDM boards. Not only is he a nice guy and highly knowledgeable about all aspects of DDM, but he's also one of the founding members of The Guild!
Many thank yous! Very useful information. :D
Now excuse me whilst I pry this foot out of my mouth...
Not this people! Not by a long shot. I don't even know what the complaint might be. "There's no sense of surprise anymore," maybe?
Y'know, if randomization is that integral to selling minis, I'd be cool with a box of random undead. Random goblinoids. As long as I know I'm buying 10-20 dead-looking things or somehow related monsters, I'd be fine.
Well if Reaper's Legendary Encounters is any indication of what a non-randon D&D mini set would look like then ther are two distinct negatives:
1) Less variety
2) Higher cost for common minis
Besides the DDM are non-randon on the secondary market.
Y'know, if randomization is that integral to selling minis, I'd be cool with a box of random undead. Random goblinoids. As long as I know I'm buying 10-20 dead-looking things or somehow related monsters, I'd be fine.
But would you be willing to buy a box of minis that had 20 of the old-style common paint jobs (suck status) for the meager amount of $34.99? Because that's about what it would cost since we were getting 8 random minis (with only about 3 having a decent pain job) for $14.99.
I think for "swarm" monsters, the Monster Tiles is a better route, leave the nice minis for the leader/controller types.
Also, people need to get off of the "can't please everyone" mindset. Sure, there would be 2 grognards who would be mad if they didn't randomize them. That doesn't meant there isn't a workable system out there.
No one would complain if they just made these horrible plastic minis in droves, and you could pick and choose which ones to buy. I so wish I could do this.
You can. It's called the secondary market. Commons are about 25 to 50 cents each.
Also, people need to get off of the "can't please everyone" mindset. Sure, there would be 2 grognards who would be mad if they didn't randomize them. That doesn't meant there isn't a workable system out there.
So, you decry the "can't please everyone" mindset, and then admit it wouldn't please everyone?
I guess I'm one of those "grognards" you talk about, because I personally would like a random element. I can see the value of having specialty packs that show you what you are getting, but I'd prefer lower costs and the thrill of surprise than buying three or four non-randoms for the same price as eight randoms.
But I guess I'm just a "grognard". Who cares about my opinion, amiright? Your "workable system" seems to be "ignore those who prefer random". But it's not important if they are happy or not, right?
I'd advocate pretty much what they are doing. A mix of random packed and non-random packed sets. I see the "PHB Heros" sets as an excellent idea as hunting for PCs in random packs can be a crapshoot (unless you use the secondary market, which isn't that hard", but I would really hate if they simply started using the "Reaper" method of forcing you to buy packs with single minis as almost the same price as 8-pack random DDM.
They can't do completely non-random for this reason: not all minis are popular. Stores will get stuck with minis that just don't sell for whatever reason, which eats up shelf space. Without room for more minis, they don't order any more until the old ones sell. Selection is reduced, with popular minis selling out, and unpopular ones eating space.
Getting one visible, large, rare-quality mini per pack is great. Now I can get that troll I've wanted, but didn't want to pay 20 bucks for it on the secondary market.
I also get the chance of getting a rare that goes for more than the cost of the booster box, but it is a gamble.
I'm also glad they separated PC and Monster lines. I'll get 5 monsters, instead of getting more PC minis that won't get used.
They can't do completely non-random for this reason: not all minis are popular. Stores will get stuck with minis that just don't sell for whatever reason, which eats up shelf space. Without room for more minis, they don't order any more until the old ones sell. Selection is reduced, with popular minis selling out, and unpopular ones eating space.
Solution: stop making minis most people don't want, seriously, when was the last time you got beat down by a unicorn, a non-white one at that?
Solution: stop making minis most people don't want, seriously, when was the last time you got beat down by a unicorn, a non-white one at that?
This would mean designing minis for the lowest common denominator, which means we loose the unusual minis from the line.
This would mean designing minis for the lowest common denominator, which means we loose the unusual minis from the line.
So, you have been in a fight with a unicorn? And which printed 4E WOTC module has an encounter using a unicorn as a monster to fight?
I'm not saying to stop making the unusual minis, just not as often, I would rather spend the money on figures I'll use than buy a box of random, or even semi-random, minis and have the majority of them be useless figs I will never incorporate into my game. I will SO use the trolls and the aboleth long before the unicorn or hippogriff. And if I REALLY need something not commonly used, with so many mini companies like Reaper out there, you should be able to find one that meets the specific needs.
But I guess I'm just a "grognard". Who cares about my opinion, am I right? Your "workable system" seems to be "ignore those who prefer random". But it's not important if they are happy or not, right?
Yup! :D
. . . I am kidding.
But since the miniatures have moved from "separate game" to "game supplies", a fair amount of people, myself included, are going to look for alternatives or ask for revisions of the policy towards said random miniatures. It would be comparable to seeing the twenty sided dice in a set you were interested in purchasing, but none of the other dice were visible, and you might get three ten sided dice, but no four sided ones. The minis don't really have any reason to be packaged randomly, other than the lagging feeling that the only miniature marketing model for the D&D game is one that includes random selection.
Also, people need to get off of the "can't please everyone" mindset. Sure, there would be 2 grognards who would be mad if they didn't randomize them. That doesn't meant there isn't a workable system out there.
It's not so much that anyone really prefers the random distribution method (though I'm sure some people do actually like it). It's more so that for many of us random is something we're content to put up with if it means high quality, wide variety, and low prices. Under a non-random distribution policy one of those three would become impossible.
D&D minis are more like a long term investment than a quick fix. They work best if you buy them in a large quantities with the idea that over the course of 2-3 campaigns most of the figures will get used at some point or another. It's mostly only when one is trying to put together a single encounter, on short notice, for their next session that the random distribution begins to fail. Fortunately their's this wonderful resource known as the secondary market, where one can find exactly what they need.
I still say they can use the same logic as they do for Dungeon Tiles and make Monster Tiles the same way. Think about it, an entire Orc/Goblin/Kobold army, with leaders and brutes ("They have a Cave Troll") all on durable cardstock for $9.99. They could even have the flip side be the corpse version to show who has been killed and who is still standing. This would be perfect for the DM on a Budget, like me! :lightbulb
This isn't a bad idea at all! I'd buy it. In fact, Fiery Dragon Games has a product just like this called 4E Counter Collection, although because it's a smaller company, the price is a bit higher. (You can buy the cardstock ones for ~$30 IIRC, or download a digital collection for much less. Also, the reverse side has the same monster with a thick red border, to indicate that the monster is Bloodied.) For me, the downside is that I often don't like the artwork they use, though this comment would get me flamed on ENWorld, because the artist is a regular poster there.
Most of the time, I like WotC's art choices. Some of my favorites were any of the Dragons or Giants in the first 4E MM. If counters were made using these images, I'd buy them in a heartbeat! (Which is why I currently make my own.) The downside is that WotC probably won't release such a product, for fear of undercutting the already-declining sales of minis.
Many thank yous! Very useful information. :D
Now excuse me whilst I pry this foot out of my mouth...
No problem!
Like I said, JohnnyQuest is the person I recommend that you talk to for more info. I don't personally follow DDM news very closely, so unfortunately I cannot elaborate any more. Good luck finding what you're looking for!
There are a few stinkers in the paint/sculpt dept in this new set, but that may have to do with the rapid timeframe under which the switch occurred. I figure the first real test of the new distribution scheme would be the set after this summer's huge set.
This isn't a bad idea at all! I'd buy it.
Thanks, I was beginning to wonder if I was off my rocker with my idea or no one noticed my post.
Thanks, I was beginning to wonder if I was off my rocker with my idea or no one noticed my post.
I'd had the same idea, but I figured I was better off not posting it. I didn't want to hear the "It doesn't make sense with their business model, blah blah" type responses. ;)
Unpleasable Fanbase much?
Oh come on now, you're being ridiculous.
The books claim that you need Dungeons & Dragons Miniatures to play the game.
Okay.
How do you get those miniatures? By setting giant piles of money on fire in the vague hopes you'll actually get the mini combos you want, apparently.
Solution: stop making minis most people don't want, seriously, when was the last time you got beat down by a unicorn, a non-white one at that?
But... I like unicorns... <.<
Solution: stop making minis most people don't want, seriously, when was the last time you got beat down by a unicorn, a non-white one at that?
I got my ass handed to me by a unicorn just the other day. I was walking around, minding my own business when bam! That thing back kicked and then trampled me.
Oh, wait, you meant in D&D. Sorry.
How do you get those miniatures? By setting giant piles of money on fire in the vague hopes you'll actually get the mini combos you want, apparently.
Minis help game play, but they aren't required. Tokens will more then suffice. WotC even produces a fairly versatile set (D&D Roleplaying Game Starter Set). I personally purchased two of those mostly so that I'd have something more portable than my collection of minis. Even those are largely unnecessary as even a a few simple pieces of paper with a monster/character's name written on it is enough.
If you feel like buying randomized booster packs is a waste of money than the current line of WotC produced miniatures might not be for you, but stop making this out to be some kind of scam. Just about any hobby when it comes down to it amounts to "setting piles of money on fire". Personally I'm burning about $160 on this next set, which thanks to bulk discount is netting me 16 booster packs (2 cases), and because of the way WotC packs cases all but eliminates the random element from collecting. So for me WotC is offering exactly the product I want.
Oh come on now, you're being ridiculous.
The books claim that you need Dungeons & Dragons Miniatures to play the game.
Okay.
How do you get those miniatures? By setting giant piles of money on fire in the vague hopes you'll actually get the mini combos you want, apparently.
Reread your post, and then try to honestly tell me that I'm the one being ridiculous. The books never "claim that you need Dungeons & Dragons Miniatures to play the game," because such a statement would be patently false. As Tharag_Bocc and others have pointed out, tokens or counters are an entirely acceptable substitute for minis, and with which many players have had immense success at both representing the creatures they encounter and at saving money.
Additionally, if you're "setting piles of money on fire" to try to get the minis you want, then it's no wonder you haven't got what you're looking for. A much more efficient way to acquire minis is to take your money to a game store and exchange it for minis. I hope this advice helps.
How do you get those miniatures? By setting giant piles of money on fire in the vague hopes you'll actually get the mini combos you want, apparently.
Setting money on fire? WTF?
Okay, since you obviously have access to the internet, do this:
Go to: www.ebay.com
Category: Toys and Hobbies
Sub-category: Games/Miniatures, War Games
Search: (insert mini monster of your choice) Buy It Now
Buy the exact minis you need, Lather, Rinse, Repeat.
No more conspiracy, no more orphaned unicorns.
Step one: Google search "board game card stands". Find a site that sells them for a reasonable price. My own quick search turned up "www.boardgamedesign.com", which sells 10 card stands for $3.50, plus tax. You can get them in a variety of colors - a convenient way to track conditions during the game.
Step two: buy some cardstock printer paper from your local office supply store. Something thick, but not too thick for your printer to manage.
Step three: download an image of the characters or monsters you want, whether from the Wizards galleries, or from DeviantArt, Google Images, or what have you. Open it in your preferred image editing software (I like the Gimp - functional and free). Scale the image to be appropraite for your game table, then duplicate it so that the picture shows the character or monster twice - one upside down above the other. Put in such double images for as many monsters or characters as you can fit on a page.
Step four: print out the page onto the card stock, cut out the double images, fold them in half (so you have the picture of the character/monster on both sides, and stick the cardstock characters & monsters into your stands.
A little more effort then just buying the minis, and not in cool 3d, but cheaper, and the result always looks like the creature or character you want, and you can even use original art for those characters blessed with artistically endowed players.
Fiery Dragon tokens look like the way to go (for me, at least). :D
I occasionally buy D&D minis, but not very often because they are expensive, random, and have a lack of quality. All three of those issues combined is often too much for me to justify spending the money. I will admit that the quality of minis has improved, but I still have gotten a few which were so messed up that I couldn't use them. I have a succubus mini which won't stand up because the wings were made too long and they extend downward beyond the base of the mini. They're plastic minis which are mass-produced, so I expect some amount of fault, but when those faults prevent me from using the mini then I have a problem.
What I normally do when it comes to purchasing minis is that I buy plastic prepackaged minis whenever I just need minis and don't particularly care what they are. I use those (along with counters, beads, and other things) for the typical monsters and unimportant mobs. If I want a specific mini then I buy a metal one and paint it. I see no reason to limit myself to one method (prepainted or painted) or the other, and I've found that I get better results by being more flexible with my mini choices.
I still do think it was a mistake to stop making the chainmail sets though. I'd like the ability to buy packs of the same type of monster. It would be great if I could get a pack of kobolds or a pack of zombies.
I just got my hand on some (came with the WWGD kit) and there is definitely a big jump in quality for these minis.
I occasionally buy D&D minis, but not very often because they are expensive, random, and have a lack of quality. All three of those issues combined is often too much for me to justify spending the money. I will admit that the quality of minis has improved, but I still have gotten a few which were so messed up that I couldn't use them. I have a succubus mini which won't stand up because the wings were made too long and they extend downward beyond the base of the mini. They're plastic minis which are mass-produced, so I expect some amount of fault, but when those faults prevent me from using the mini then I have a problem.
Are you sure the wings are too long and not just bent? I have a rather sizable collection of minis (4000+)*, and I've never met a mini that couldn't be fixed by dropping it in a cup of boiling water.
Anyway, if your prime reason for not buying minis is expense+random, you should consider buying in bulk. This can usually cut the price by 25% or more and goes a long way to reducing the randomization factor. I'm not saying spend more money than you already do, but consider saving up and buying all your packs at once instead of buying only a few packs every so often.
[INDENT]*I hadn't realized just how sizable my collection had grown until now. Looking at my storage cases, they don't seem that numerous, but the math for the number of packs that I have bought doesn't lie.[/INDENT]
For those who really dislike the new mini set, have a look at some of the minis. There are those who aren't too great (Rust Monster), but there are those whose quality just blows the old minis away (Orc Terrorblade).
Indeed. For those not interested in sifting through the WotC preview articles, (http://www.ddmspoilers.com/mm_01.php) has compiled all the images into a full set gallery. Of exceptional note should be the Chain Devil (#11). The WotC preview confirmed that this mini was not part of the canceled Feywild set, but rather an example of the kind of minis we can expect in future sets.
Over all I'm very pleased. I haven't purchased any of the last 4 sets, but this set has pulled me back in.
Are you sure the wings are too long and not just bent? I have a rather sizable collection of minis (4000+)*, and I've never met a mini that couldn't be fixed by dropping it in a cup of boiling water.
Anyway, if your prime reason for not buying minis is expense+random, you should consider buying in bulk. This can usually cut the price by 25% or more and goes a long way to reducing the randomization factor. I'm not saying spend more money than you already do, but consider saving up and buying all your packs at once instead of buying only a few packs every so often.
[INDENT]*I hadn't realized just how sizable my collection had grown until now. Looking at my storage cases, they don't seem that numerous, but the math for the number of packs that I have bought doesn't lie.[/INDENT]
Indeed. For those not interested in sifting through the WotC preview articles, (http://www.ddmspoilers.com/mm_01.php) has compiled all the images into a full set gallery.
Over all I'm very pleased. I haven't purchased any of the last 4 sets, but this set has pulled me back in.
I tried to bend them back, but they're still too long. I had considered trying to cut them using some of the tools I have for metal minis, but I then realized that I might as well just buy some metal succubi if I had to go through all of the trouble of modding the mini anyway.
I have a 4E Adult Red Dragon mini which has the same problem. The wings make it hard for the mini to stand. Because it was a larger mini it was easier to fix the red dragon by simply just bending the wings like you suggest, but now the mini looks kinda weird. I've also had quite a few which came out of the box with hands and heads broken off, deformed bodies, and various other things.
The bottom line is that I usually don't (IMO) get my money's worth from buying the D&D minis. I still do buy them on occasion just so that I do have minis, but it's usually better for me to spend my money on other minis or to just go without. I think what surprises me the most is that Hasbro -a toy company- owns WoTC; you'd think they could figure out a better way to make minis since their parent company makes various toys and various plastic figures for other products.
Think about it, an entire Orc/Goblin/Kobold army, with leaders and brutes ("They have a Cave Troll") all on durable cardstock for $9.99.
YES.
So don't give me one drow in this set and then another in that set... give me 10 in this set, and then throw in some Drow related alllies/monsters. Then fill it out with stuff that supplement those.
YES.
YESYESYESYESYES. YES.
I just realized that YES is a really weird word...
Most of my 50(?) minis are from demonweb (yeah, I'm new at this.) We have about 4 deathlock wights, about 4 infernal armor, about 3 of those spiral demon beetle things, etc. The combination was good for goblins raising skeletons from the dead. So far, we need many more PCs. Many more. This would help for my upcoming bugbear army, too.
I have a 4E Adult Red Dragon mini which has the same problem. The wings make it hard for the mini to stand. Because it was a larger mini it was easier to fix the red dragon by simply just bending the wings like you suggest, but now the mini looks kinda weird. I've also had quite a few which came out of the box with hands and heads broken off, deformed bodies, and various other things.
Wow, tough luck. Out of all my 4000+ minis I have only ever pulled 3 figures with broken limbs (A beholder whose eyestalk had fallen off, a General Grievous whose leg fell off, and and Obi-Wan Kenobi whose lightsaber hand fell off*), in each case it was simply a matter of two pieces that hadn't been glued together, so they were easy to fix.
[INDENT]*I actually appreciate the Obi-Wan, as when reattaching the hand I was ably to adjust it to an angle that I preferred to the official pose. I actually had doubles of that figure, ended up trading the pristine one and keeping the "defective" model. However, while I do enjoy my personalized Kenobi, I wouldn't want to have to go to such effort on a regular basis, so I still prefer pre-assembled minis[/INDENT]
Wow, tough luck. Out of all my 4000+ minis I have only ever pulled 3 figures with broken limbs (A beholder whose eyestalk had fallen off, a General Grievous whose leg fell off, and and Obi-Wan Kenobi whose lightsaber hand fell off*), in each case it was simply a matter of two pieces that hadn't been glued together, so they were easy to fix.
[INDENT]*I actually appreciate the Obi-Wan, as when reattaching the hand I was ably to adjust it to an angle that I preferred to the official pose. I actually had doubles of that figure, ended up trading the pristine one and keeping the "defective" model. However, while I do enjoy my personalized Kenobi, I wouldn't want to have to go to such effort on a regular basis, so I still prefer pre-assembled minis[/INDENT]
I wish I knew what the problem was/is with D&D products in this area. I'm not sure if there's a problem with the distribution of products around here or what, but I also live in one of the areas which had severe problems with the first three 4E books badly smudging and falling apart.
Many of the mini problems I've had are somewhat easy to fix, but in my mind I keep asking myself why I'm buying plastic minis which I have to assemble when I could just buy a metal mini and assemble it the way that I want it to look anyway.
I'm going to check out some of the cardstock ideas which others have mentioned. I'm starting to play games other than D&D a bit more, so I'm starting to need minis for things other than the typical fantasy characters and creatures.
I wish I knew what the problem was/is with D&D products in this area. I'm not sure if there's a problem with the distribution of products around here or what, but I also live in one of the areas which had severe problems with the first three 4E books badly smudging and falling apart.
Many of the mini problems I've had are somewhat easy to fix, but in my mind I keep asking myself why I'm buying plastic minis which I have to assemble when I could just buy a metal mini and assemble it the way that I want it to look anyway.
I'm going to check out some of the cardstock ideas which others have mentioned. I'm starting to play games other than D&D a bit more, so I'm starting to need minis for things other than the typical fantasy characters and creatures.
I've heard "humidity differences" cited as a reason for both smudging and creasing in the books and warping in the minis, though I'm not sure that could be the cause of pieces falling off of a mini. Most of the time, folks said that your books go back to normal once they "acclimatize to your living environment", and that the minis could be bent into shape with gentle application of heat.
Indeed. For those not interested in sifting through the WotC preview articles, (http://www.ddmspoilers.com/mm_01.php) has compiled all the images into a full set gallery.
While that site is good for knowing the general appearance, it isn't as good (and neither is the WotC website for that matter) to get an impression of the actual appearance. For example from the PHB series (as the Orc Terrorblade is mini that most impressed me from Dungeon Delves and DDM's picture is actually quite good for that one), I got to see a closeup (and was even able to keep it due to the DM being nice) of the Goliath and the amount of detail is simply astounding. But now because I've got such a beautiful mini, I'm tempted to make a Goliath to use it ;) I'm also considering how to get some orcs into my games as baddies ;)
I've heard "humidity differences" cited as a reason for both smudging and creasing in the books and warping in the minis, though I'm not sure that could be the cause of pieces falling off of a mini. Most of the time, folks said that your books go back to normal once they "acclimatize to your living environment", and that the minis could be bent into shape with gentle application of heat.
Yeah, I've heard that a few times, and I don't deny that humidity does play a part in the life of books and printed page. I own quite a few comic books and other such things, so I know that greasy fingers and things of that nature can damage them. I've just never had problems to the extent that I do with some of the products now. Maybe I didn't realize that Pennsylvania was so humid? I'd rather not get on that subject though because I've covered it quite a few times elsewhere.
I do admit that overall the quality of minis has improved drastically since 4E has been released in comparison to the plastic 3E minis. I have a few old 3E minis which I can't use at all because they were deformed so badly that instead of standing up they were laying down in relation to where the base of the mini was located. It was far beyond the problem I have with the succubus wings and the dragon wings. Honestly, I learned to paint minis for the sole reason that I felt as though the plastic minis were a rip off at the time.
The minis just still aren't at the level that I think they should be for me to personally invest more money into them. Maybe I'm just expecting too much out of a company who is owned by a toy company. I know that Hasbro -from what I understand- doesn't pay much attention to the workings of WoTC, but it still surprises me that a company who makes so many plastic products and makes them so well would allow for one of their products to be produced in the manner that it is produced. It's just hard to justify to myself that I should buy minis without any knowledge of what I might get and with questionable knowledge about the quality when I can spend just a little but more (and actually sometimes spend less) and get better quality and get more of what I actually want and need -especially now that the economy is tanking and I have less money to use on recreational activities. I still do buy them, but not nearly as much as I would if I got more out of them.
I do admit that overall the quality of minis has improved drastically since 4E has been released in comparison to the plastic 3E minis.
Odd, it's general consensus as I understand it that the minis took a sharp nose dive in quality with the first 4e set (Dungeons of Dread), and that they are only now with this next set starting to recover.
I have a few old 3E minis which I can't use at all because they were deformed so badly that instead of standing up they were laying down in relation to where the base of the mini was located.
Sounds more like bent minis then deformed ones. I've boiled enough skeletons and battle droids to know that the problem is easily fixed. If you haven't already, you really should try giving any such miniatures a nice scalding bath (make sure to have a cold glass of water to cool them back down so they don't bend under gravity while soft).
Odd, it's general consensus as I understand it that the minis took a sharp nose dive in quality with the first 4e set (Dungeons of Dread), and that they are only now with this next set starting to recover.
Sounds more like bent minis then deformed ones. I've boiled enough skeletons and battle droids to know that the problem is easily fixed. If you haven't already, you really should try giving any such miniatures a nice scalding bath (make sure to have a cold glass of water to cool them back down so they don't bend under gravity while soft).
I'll give it a try and see what the results are. Just from looking at them it is obvious that bending is a large problem for some of them. How much is bending and how much is something else I can't be sure, but I'll try it.
As for the general consensus... I really don't know how to answer that. I've noticed that my views tend to be quite different from a lot of what I see on the boards here. I think that the chainmail minis were better than the current 4E minis, but I feel that the current minis are better than the 3E plastic minis. I also feel that the 3E bard and the 3E monk were viable classes though, so take that for whatever it may be worth.
Odd, it's general consensus as I understand it that the minis took a sharp nose dive in quality with the first 4e set (Dungeons of Dread), and that they are only now with this next set starting to recover.
As for the general consensus... I really don't know how to answer that. I've noticed that my views tend to be quite different from a lot of what I see on the boards here. I think that the chainmail minis were better than the current 4E minis, but I feel that the current minis are better than the 3E plastic minis. I also feel that the 3E bard and the 3E monk were viable classes though, so take that for whatever it may be worth.
My own opinion is that Night Below was the worst set overall, though I agree that Dungeons of Dread was pretty bad too. Over the course of the line, it was obvious at which points various cost-cutting measures were introduced. (Not that I blame WotC for doing so, when the cost of production was so obviously increasing, too.) It's a shame that all the minis can't be perfect, of course.
Between Dragoneye and Blood War, things were generally pretty good. (I realize that's like at least half of all the sets produced.) Giants of Legend was a high-point; some of the commons in that set are actually amazing in terms of both sculpt and paint-job; compare the Grick from GoL to the newer Grick from Dungeons of Dread, for example.
My own opinion is that Night Below was the worst set overall, though I agree that Dungeons of Dread was pretty bad too. Over the course of the line, it was obvious at which points various cost-cutting measures were introduced. (Not that I blame WotC for doing so, when the cost of production was so obviously increasing, too.) It's a shame that all the minis can't be perfect, of course.
Between Dragoneye and Blood War, things were generally pretty good. (I realize that's like at least half of all the sets produced.) Giants of Legend was a high-point; some of the commons in that set are actually amazing in terms of both sculpt and paint-job; compare the Grick from GoL to the newer Grick from Dungeons of Dread, for example.
While I didn't collect the older sets from the ones I do I have I have to say the worst sculpt/paint is the Enormous Carrion Crawler. Around here it's called the Pokemon monster because of the stupid 'grin' they gave it. Magma Gumby from DoD is the second worst.
seriously, when was the last time you got beat down by a unicorn, a non-white one at that?
What you got against non-white unicorns you racist you!
What you got against non-white unicorns you racist you!
rotflmao
Hey now, don't jump to any conclusions there, I just don't ever remember seeing (unless you are one of those My Little Pony fanatics) gray unicorns with white spots on them in any of the traditional literature is all. I honestly don't care if they are pink with purple polka dots, there isn't much scary about unicorns. Fastest way to a bar fight is to brag about how you narrowly escaped certain death at the hands of..........a unicorn. Might as well tape a sign on your characters back that says "Flank Me".