Well this has me excited and skeptical. While I have been thrilled with how 4th ed has been updating the various setting exclusive races (warforged, gensai etc.), I would have put money down that draconions were going to be racial dragonborn feats like the high/sun/moon elf in Forgotten Realms. I'll be honest I am hoping that the Draconian (as a pc option) will be like the Gensai at the least and at most each will still be a separate race with different bonuses. The other big hope I am having is that they include the Noble Draconians. Though given this is a book on Metallics it does seem a touch doubtful that they will show up. But, hey I can hope.
What are your thoughts on the matter?
* I do ask that this not turn into "We want Dragonlance!!!! Topic", this is solely meant to be on Draconians and their inclusion in the next Draconomicon, nothing else.
Umm we already know how they work. There are 8 types, each one based on a type of corrupted metallic dragon egg. And they are monsters not PC options. Here you can get stats for two kinds of Draconians.
The weird thing is, There must be more than 8 types of Metallics, so why are there only 8 types of Draconians?
Gold
Silver
Iron
Adamantine
Copper
Brass
Bronze
Cobalt
Orium
Steel
There are ten types mentioned already. So why are there only 8 types of Draconians?
o.O Where were steel and orium mentioned? I can't say that I recall ever seeing them mentioned before, and they are the ones that aren't on the list of Draconians...
Steel were mentioned in an Ampersand or editorial or something.
Orium are being previewed early next month (check the previews for Draconomicon II).
Anyone else think the draconians are gonna be somewhat equivalent to the dragonspawn for chromatics (i.e. taking up the spaces that were used in Drac1)
Steel were mentioned in an Ampersand or editorial or something.
Orium are being previewed early next month (check the previews for Draconomicon II).
Oh ok, so when you say Orium you mean these guys:
I don't think they are true dragons. I mean compare their size to that of the true dragon. I don't know what they are, but I doubt they are a new true breed of metallics.
And I've done a ctrl+f through every ampersand and editorial in Dragon since issue 369(so basically a year's worth) and I found 0 mentions of steel in any of them.
I could have sworn I heard a reference about Steel Dragons in them as well. It may have been a developer's blog, but I don't have the time to go search for it right now.
Also, The BIG THING could be the Orium Dragon. The little guys could be younger versions. We don't know yet, but the fact they've been given a Metal Name like other Metallics makes them sound like they're going to be a type of new Metallic in the book.
Steel dragons used to exist- Neutral good, shapeshifting. But with Iron dragons as a major metallic, it makes me wonder if steel is "too close," and removed because of it.
But then why would I have heard about Steel Dragons in Draconomicon 2? I could SWEAR I read it, and I don't usually swear about things like this.
Also, The BIG THING could be the Orium Dragon. The little guys could be younger versions. We don't know yet, but the fact they've been given a Metal Name like other Metallics makes them sound like they're going to be a type of new Metallic in the book.
Orium is a metal? I did a wikipedia search and didn't find an entry. Yahoo search? No metals. Dictionary.com? Nadda. Google search? An entry for a -orium as a noun suffix which means "place of or for". Am I missing something big here?
But then why would I have heard about Steel Dragons in Draconomicon 2? I could SWEAR I read it, and I don't usually swear about things like this.
I really have no idea as to why you would have heard about Steel dragons. I personally can't find any mention of them(I checked Dungeon Editorials for the past year). Are you sure you aren't getting them mixed up with something else you read?
Is Adamantine a metal?
The smaller creatures in the picture look less like dragons and more like Vrocks or some other bird monster.
The smaller creatures in the picture look less like dragons and more like Vrocks or some other bird monster.
But Wotc zoomed in on one of their heads for the thumbnail to go along with the article on orium dragons
They zoom in on weird things.
The point is, we HAVE NO IDEA. Orium isn't a word, so it could be a made up D&Dverse metal, like Adamantine (well, Adamantine is a descriptive term meaning as hard or tough as Diamonds, but... to be a metal is completely a fantasy trope).
So Orium Dragons, because of the way the name is formed, lends itself to being a Metallic Dragon type. It's more likely to be that than not, though it could be not.
Is Adamantine a metal?
It is in D&D, even if not in the real world. 'Orium', afaik, is a new term.
In D&D adamantium is a metal...
The "bird like things" in the picture are not the dragons, but the dragon in the pic is. The 4E vrocks look exactly like the ones in the pic...
And as much as I'd like to see a steel dragon, i believe they said something about taking out alloy-based metallics. So no bronze (which was an alloy). that explains why copper was in MM2 and bronze wasnt.
But they said that Brass and Bronze were in the Drac 2.
By the way, when I asked if Adamantine was a metal, I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek. What I meant is that Orium is no less of a metal than Adamantine is.
They zoom in on weird things.
The point is, we HAVE NO IDEA. Orium isn't a word, so it could be a made up D&Dverse metal, like Adamantine (well, Adamantine is a descriptive term meaning as hard or tough as Diamonds, but... to be a metal is completely a fantasy trope).
So Orium Dragons, because of the way the name is formed, lends itself to being a Metallic Dragon type. It's more likely to be that than not, though it could be not.
The only way I could see Orium being a dragon type would be if they renamed one of the dragon types since the draconian preview(likely cobalt). I don't think there going to be more than 8 metallic dragons though.
Orium used to be orichalcum, but was changed.
Orium used to be orichalcum, but was changed.
I was gonna say it sounded familiar, for some reason I was thinking it was some how connected to chrome
That makes sense. Orihalcon is a well known mythical element. This is as unsurprising to me as if they decided on making a Mythril Dragon type of Metallic. This also seems to root it in that it WILL be one of the Metallics in the book.
EDIT: I found another Steel Dragon reference: Check out the new excerpts. There's a Steel Dragon mentioned it the Guardians of the Gates section.
Draconomicon 1 featured several single entry dragons other than the main eight; blazewyrm, faerie, frostforged, blight, pact, battle, mirage, wretch, tempest, deathmask, pyroclastic, shadow.
As such it is possible that adamant, brass, bronze, cobalt, copper, iron, gold, and silver will be the only dragons to receive full detailed write ups, but that dragons such as steel and orium will appear as minor, single page, entries.
Draconomicon 1 featured several single entry dragons other than the main eight; blazewyrm, faerie, frostforged, blight, pact, battle, mirage, wretch, tempest, deathmask, pyroclastic, shadow.
As such it is possible that adamant, brass, bronze, cobalt, copper, iron, gold, and silver will be the only dragons to receive full detailed write ups, but that dragons such as steel and orium will appear as minor, single page, entries.
Except those ones you list are planar/elemental dragons not Chromatic, and then Orium and Steel would be less loved metalics. But it is possible.
Draconomicon 1 featured several single entry dragons other than the main eight; blazewyrm, faerie, frostforged, blight, pact, battle, mirage, wretch, tempest, deathmask, pyroclastic, shadow.As such it is possible that adamant, brass, bronze, cobalt, copper, iron, gold, and silver will be the only dragons to receive full detailed write ups, but that dragons such as steel and orium will appear as minor, single page, entries.
Except those ones you list are planar/elemental dragons not Chromatic, and then Orium and Steel would be less loved metalics. But it is possible.
Steel is made from iron, so maybe in 4e steel dragons will be a form of planer dragon. Perhaps they have been "forged" from iron into steel by dwelling in the elemental chaos.
Orium, being a completely fictional substance, could likely be a similar concept. Perhaps they are silver dragons from the astral sea or cobalt dragons from the feywild.
That's a possibility. However, the name lends itself more to another Metallic type, as opposed to a Planar type. The Planar Dragons in Draconomicon 1 had names that clearly defined what they were. Faerie Dragon is from the Feywild. Blazewyrm is a flaming dragon that probably from the Chaos. Orium and Steel don't do that, they just sound like new Metallics.
And if you're going by alloys, Bronze and Brass, which are confirmed as new Metallic types, are also alloys, and are in. And Adamantine is just as fictional a metal as Orium is.
So we really don't know, but odds are they are new Metallic types. Which again, raises the question: Why do they only specify 8 types of Draconians, when there are 10 Metallics mentioned?
Perhaps there are actually 10 types, and we just didn't get privy information or Wizards made a typo. They're prone to that sort of error.
That's a possibility. However, the name lends itself more to another Metallic type, as opposed to a Planar type. The Planar Dragons in Draconomicon 1 had names that clearly defined what they were. Faerie Dragon is from the Feywild. Blazewyrm is a flaming dragon that probably from the Chaos. Orium and Steel don't do that, they just sound like new Metallics.
Well, it is possible that the naming conventions for planer variants of the metallic dragons are different than those of chromatic dragons.
It's also possible that WotC has simply changed their standards for naming planar dragon in general. Several such dragons from the first Draconomicon have names that seem like they would have been more evocative of catastrophic dragons (pyroclastic) or scourge dragons (blight).
Possible, but I thought one of the concepts in 4e was to not create crazy new names that don't get across what the creature is just for the sake of crazy new names?
The reason we have obvious names is so that people will go like, hey the Blazewyrm will probably be resistant to fire and breath fire on us.
Steel Dragon? I don't have a clue what that might do. At least Iron Dragon makes sense there - Iron is magnetic, so they drawn enemies in with their electromagnetic breath. Silver is a cool looking metal and Gold is a glowing fiery like metal. So those make sense as well. Adamantine Dragon makes sense because it's the toughest of all the dragons. But Steel and Orium don't tell me anything, nor does Cobalt. Brass falls into that Fiery category, though Bronze feels more earth metalish (though they've been traditionally aquatic). So I really don't know how they'll be interpreted, but if we're going to make Planar Dragons, it would be nice to name them after something that MAKES SENSE.
They didn't call Faerie Dragons Pink Dragons, and they didn't call Blazewyrm Dragons Dark Red Dragons. There's no reason they would do that with the Metallics.
Possible, but I thought one of the concepts in 4e was to not create crazy new names that don't get across what the creature is just for the sake of crazy new names?
Not sure where you got this idea. 4e still has plenty of of names that don't make sense unless you're familiar with the particulars of D&D lore. Notably most demons and many devils, most of which have more descriptive alternate names in their fluff, and yet the more nonsensical name is what often gets used for the title entry.
Many of the old names were kept over because of iconagrapy. Other names not so much - Aasimar was lost in sake of Deva. Archon was reused because it has powerful connotations, instead of some wierd new made of word.
Killoren are now called Wilden because, frankly, what's a Killoren? Sounds like some weird alien out of K.A. Applegate to me.
4e's reconception of a lot of monsters, their names reusing names because of the linguistical power and legacy of them, is what I'm talking about.
That's a possibility. However, the name lends itself more to another Metallic type, as opposed to a Planar type. The Planar Dragons in Draconomicon 1 had names that clearly defined what they were. Faerie Dragon is from the Feywild. Blazewyrm is a flaming dragon that probably from the Chaos. Orium and Steel don't do that, they just sound like new Metallics.
And if you're going by alloys, Bronze and Brass, which are confirmed as new Metallic types, are also alloys, and are in. And Adamantine is just as fictional a metal as Orium is.
So we really don't know, but odds are they are new Metallic types. Which again, raises the question: Why do they only specify 8 types of Draconians, when there are 10 Metallics mentioned?
Perhaps there are actually 10 types, and we just didn't get privy information or Wizards made a typo. They're prone to that sort of error.
Maybe these 2 dragont ypes were added after the draconians were listed. But then again we have a dragonspawn for every chromatic but grey.
Maybe these 2 dragont ypes were added after the draconians were listed. But then again we have a dragonspawn for every chromatic but grey.
You seem to have missed the Grayspawn Fleshtearer.
Umm we already know how they work. There are 8 types, each one based on a type of corrupted metallic dragon egg. And they are monsters not PC options. Here you can get stats for two kinds of Draconians.
Monsters, not pc options in the Drac. Dragonborn were in the first Drac. Doesn't mean they can't eventually be playable races.
And the fact that they are even in there hints strongly to a Dragonlance setting after Dark Sun.
Nah. More than that, it hints that, like Ravenloft, Planescape, Mystara, and Spelljammer, elements of the Dragonlance setting are becoming part of the core PoL Setting.
Maybe these 2 dragont ypes were added after the draconians were listed. But then again we have a dragonspawn for every chromatic but grey.
You seem to have missed the Grayspawn Fleshtearer.
I thoughtwe were missing a spawn...and we aren't I guess. The whitespawn is in elder evils, that was the one I was thinking of. So hopefully then it is a case of the first mention of draconians was before they decided on steel and orium.
Maybe these 2 dragont ypes were added after the draconians were listed. But then again we have a dragonspawn for every chromatic but grey.
That would mean they added the dragons around a month before the book was sent off to the printers. Considering that is several months into editing and past development, I think adding two new dragon types seems unlikely. That basically leaves the options of them either having been there when the article was posted(either as new dragon types or as relatives to the dragon families) or they are renamed dragon types. Considering the timeline, I admit that them being new dragon types is slightly more likely than I originally gave them credit for.
Monsters, not pc options in the Drac. Dragonborn were in the first Drac. Doesn't mean they can't eventually be playable races.
And the fact that they are even in there hints strongly to a Dragonlance setting after Dark Sun.
Meh not really, the evidence is strongly pointing against Dragonlance for 2011, but I've ranted on that enough in other threads.
So hopefully then it is a case of the first mention of draconians was before they decided on steel and orium.
Possible, but it wouldn't seem likely. The revelation that draconians would appear in Draconomicon 2 was not so long ago that the book wouldn't have been mostly finished. At least as far as the larger details, like what dragons would get full coverage, would be concerned.
Maybe these 2 dragont ypes were added after the draconians were listed. But then again we have a dragonspawn for every chromatic but grey.
That would mean they added the dragons around a month before the book was sent off to the printers. Considering that is several months into editing and past development, I think adding two new dragon types seems unlikely. That basically leaves the options of them either having been there when the article was posted(either as new dragon types or as relatives to the dragon families) or they are renamed dragon types. Considering the timeline, I admit that them being new dragon types is slightly more likely than I originally gave them credit for.
I admit i hadn't read the date of the article, so I guess it is unlikely. Well maybe the last two draconians will be added somewhere else.
Seeing as how the only things similar between the draconians is how they die (which is still different) and they can change shapes (which is radically different between the two, and is already a major feature of the changeling), i dont think thats compelling proof that they'll be playable. All the current monsters who have ended up as player races have a unifing power that could work as a playable one.
Steel were mentioned in an Ampersand or editorial or something.
Orium are being previewed early next month (check the previews for Draconomicon II).
Oh ok, so when you say Orium you mean these guys:I don't think they are true dragons. I mean compare their size to that of the true dragon. I don't know what they are, but I doubt they are a new true breed of metallics.
And I've done a ctrl+f through every ampersand and editorial in Dragon since issue 369(so basically a year's worth) and I found 0 mentions of steel in any of them.
Aren't these simple Vrocks?
Maybe a little on the big side though.....
Orium Dragons are not those Vrock things, its the dragon in the picture. The lair released tonight confirms they are a full metalic dragon.