Well, looks like the entirety of this month's issue, beyond the Class Compendium article and Unearthed Arcane, is devoted to themes.
I wasn't expecting this, and I'm honestly intrigued, and a little excited. Especially since there are so many different themes listed here. This issue of dragon might end up being totally awesome.
This has my boiling in my seat with excitement! This issue is CRAZY AWESOME!
I am already enjoying this month.
Some posters are already complaining about the new themes.
It's the internet. What did you expect?
Ever since Darksun they've been letting the best thing to happen to dnd since the feat rot in a corner.
On a slightly less pompous note, the answer is simple you won't be able to trade out for theme dailies.
Most of the essentials classes have something equivalent to an encounter power, you can probably swap uses of that for encounter powers (however in the case of the slayer where it looses all of its bonuses if it does something besides spam basic attacks it frankly seems like less of an issue), utility powers can probably be traded out mostly normally.
How are these themes going to be implemented with classes that don't have... interchangeable encounters? or... Dailies?
Those classes (except the assassin) can get an exchangeable encounter for a feat. It also wouldn't seem to be a big deal if you allow them to exchange one of the static levelless encounters for another when you reach the right level.
Exchanging a class feature for a daily could also work, or the themes could even have alternate features.
The upcoming hybrid and multiclassing rules for essentials would also likely present solutions.
But I wouldn't call it until I see the rules.
I think that's ridiculous. But hey, you can be pompous all you want, along with other un-nice words.
I think this is a concern; as many of the newer players will be completely lost when it comes to themes, and older players that maybe picked up a new class will wonder how to integrate these themes without scraping thier current character. Unless this issue will be covered more indepth with more hybrid/multi-class rules that were pushed to... June.
i am not sure how they will implement this with classes that dont share the AEDU progression line. and dont have dalies or in some cases limited utilities to switch out (assuming they do this at all with the themes)
now here is the issue caviliers and blackgaurds dont get swapable utilities till level 6, martial subclasses dont get any daily powers at all. so, how is it possible to make a theme to accomidate that, unless you allow them to switch out a class feature (like the knights +2 to initiave at level 9 for a daily power, yes please)
hell the themes could look nothing like dark sun.
i kind of like it kind of like the themes, they are akin to a heroic paragon path.
@ rampent, that was uncalled for, be respectful of other posters
You pick a class without dailies, you can't get dailies from your theme, seems simple, obvious, and in no need of additional rules.
Which of course means there will be a frenzy to house rule some sort of hideously overwrought scheme to get around that.
It's like Racial powers that you can swap with your class powers. If you can't swap the Theme powers, you can't swap them. Isn't it enough just to have the bonus Theme Encounter power and qualify for PPaths?
You mean racial utilities? It may end up working just like that ... at least for Theme utilities. Racial utilities specifically override the locked utility for a level feature of classes - A Shade or Vryloka Blackguard can take a race utility instead of the level 2 utility even though it's a locked choice for everyone else. The Themes may have a similar ruling.
I honestly don't see why people keep wondering about this, if you don't have a power of the appropriate type or level you can't switch out for the theme equivalent. You just switch out on the levels you can (or not if you don't like the theme power for that level), and live with it.
You pick a class without dailies, you can't get dailies from your theme, seems simple, obvious, and in no need of additional rules.
Which of course means there will be a frenzy to house rule some sort of hideously overwrought scheme to get around that.
Because that doesn't seem fair. Also, after seeing such things as the power swap feats for Essentials characters, it seems like WotC is now taking steps to make Essentials cross compatible. If correct, it should be their goal to allow themes to be fully usable by non-AEDU classes.
It's like Racial powers that you can swap with your class powers. If you can't swap the Theme powers, you can't swap them. Isn't it enough just to have the bonus Theme Encounter power and qualify for PPaths?
You mean racial utilities? It may end up working just like that ... at least for Theme utilities. Racial utilities specifically override the locked utility for a level feature of classes - A Shade or Vryloka Blackguard can take a race utility instead of the level 2 utility even though it's a locked choice for everyone else. The Themes may have a similar ruling.
I think he was referring to a few feats (mostly older ones) that allowed other races to swap out a utility power for a racial one. Like I know an old Dragon article gave dragonborn an epic level utility they could take in place of normal ones.
I didn't have issues with utilities, or the added encounter; it's just a waste to have these nifty themes to only really have about 50% use from each them. Since... you know, I'm apparently not playing a real class here.
I think that's ridiculous. But hey, you can be pompous all you want, along with other un-nice words.
I think this is a concern; as many of the newer players will be completely lost when it comes to themes, and older players that maybe picked up a new class will wonder how to integrate these themes without scraping thier current character. Unless this issue will be covered more indepth with more hybrid/multi-class rules that were pushed to... June.
To be fair; the same complaints are made about 4e v. Essentials. I'm sorry you can't use ALL of the theme; but you can still use some of the theme. The encounter power you start with is useable for all characters. You can still use the paragon paths and feats related to themes.
I am unfamiliar with themes (never paid attention to Dark Sun). How do they work?
Themes have 3 parts.
The first is an encounter power that you get at level 1, regardless of class or race. This is by far the most important part of the theme; because it is the part that isn't optional. It also helps to solve the problem that many groups that I've been in have been having that early levels are too simple and boring (at-will spamming). The encounter power scales in damage by tier. The power functions off your primary ability score.
Example
Quick Formation * Dune Trader Feature
Encounter * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action * Melee or Ranged weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Primary ability vs. AC
Hit: 1 [W] + ability modifier damage, and either you shift 4 squares, or each ally within 5 squares of you can shift 2 squares as a free action.
Level 11: 2[W] + ability modifier damage.
Level 21: 3[W] + ability modifier damage.
Quick Formation * Dune Trader Feature
Encounter * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action * Melee or Ranged weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Primary ability vs. AC
Hit: 1 [W] + ability modifier damage, and either you shift 4 squares, or each ally within 5 squares of you can shift 2 squares as a free action.
Level 11: 2[W] + ability modifier damage.
Level 21: 3[W] + ability modifier damage.
The more difficult question is how Non-AEDU characters would utilise Theme Encounter Powers. The easiest way would be to say, they can't. They get quite a bit of option from Theme already, so it's okay. 3/5 is okay. But knowing D&D fans, this wouldn't go over well.
So I'm possibly seeing rulings similar to the Cross-Training Feats from last month's Class Compendium, only without requiring feat investment to take advantage of Theme Encounter Powers. That is, you can swap out a usage of Power Strike for the power Savage Sweep from the Gladiator list.
However, Daily Powers are more difficult. Perhaps they'd allow swapping class feature bonuses for them, but those are difficult, and the class feature bonuses, while all-together adding up to being "worth" a daily, cannot be separated out and swapped so easily. I'm not sure. The best I can come up with, then, is that non-Daily-using classes could use 4/5 parts of a Theme. The Executioner, on the other hand, has daily poisons he can swap, but can't afford to swap its Assassin's Strike. In this case, it could use 4/5 elements of a Theme, but the elements usable would switch.
Some posters are already complaining about the new themes.
Lulz. Pure Lulz.
I'm very excited for the alchemist theme. About bloody time.
CelticMutt was correct in my meaning. Non-AEDU classes, at the VERY LEAST, should be able to use 3/5 elements of a Theme: the Initial Bonus Encounter Power; the Utility Powers (working the same way as Racial Utilities of Vryloka and Shade – can override "locked" utilites); and Paragon Paths based on the Theme.
The more difficult question is how Non-AEDU characters would utilise Theme Encounter Powers. The easiest way would be to say, they can't. They get quite a bit of option from Theme already, so it's okay. 3/5 is okay. But knowing D&D fans, this wouldn't go over well.
So I'm possibly seeing rulings similar to the Cross-Training Feats from last month's Class Compendium, only without requiring feat investment to take advantage of Theme Encounter Powers. That is, you can swap out a usage of Power Strike for the power Savage Sweep from the Gladiator list.
However, Daily Powers are more difficult. Perhaps they'd allow swapping class feature bonuses for them, but those are difficult, and the class feature bonuses, while all-together adding up to being "worth" a daily, cannot be separated out and swapped so easily. I'm not sure. The best I can come up with, then, is that non-Daily-using classes could use 4/5 parts of a Theme. The Executioner, on the other hand, has daily poisons he can swap, but can't afford to swap its Assassin's Strike. In this case, it could use 4/5 elements of a Theme, but the elements usable would switch.
Technically you don't need any fix for the encounter part. Unless I'm mistaken, RAW you can take cross training to get an encounter power and then trade that for a theme power as normal. Or a multiclass power if you invest in the right feat. Complicated? Only slightly.