Salla wrote:
Like the Elf and Eld, as you call it, the Dragonborn and Half Orc are the same, ugly races that have high str and a social stigma.
Dragonborn have no social stigma atatched to them beyond possibly being sticks in the mud. Also I hardly consider them to be ugly. They are very astetically(sp) pleasing. Would I date one? Probably not, but that hardly means they are ugly.
1) Dragonborn are not a bruiser race, they have always been characterized as noble.
2) Dragonborn are a race unto themselves, not a hybrid.
3) Half-orcs are usually Barbarians, Fighters or Rogues. Dragonborn are usually Warlords, Fighters or Paladins.
About the only thing they in common is both are big and strong.
Bel
Or at least that is the impression I got from the Eberron campaign.
Perhaps the social stigma would be different between the two, one being frowned upon for the war while the other is an outsider that isn't trusted, but it would be there.
doctorhook, you are now officially on the list.
thaX,
Please, please, please.. In the name of God, Satan, and even the fat belly of Buddha, drop this. I understand you don't like them. There comes a time when shouting at the moon and throwing your fists up in the air, only makes you look like a madman.
This. Is. One. Of. Those. Times
No, wait...
It's just that sometimes words fail to grasp the level of disappointment I have in this sad direction for the choices of races for the next PHB. It is bad enough the Gnome was delayed until PHB2 but to add the Half Orc when the replacement was already published previously is just... Well, words fail.
Bruiser race that are isolated from the human civilization and are looked on with suspicion. The Same.
Zuh-WHA? Did you like, entirely ignore the fluff in the PHB? Dragonborn are not looked on with suspicion (and even the "isolated" bit is arguable). Tieflings are the race looked on with suspicion, in fact dragonborn are almost revered!
One has a background of being born from the remnants of war and the other is a lost race who joins human civilizations reluctantly.
Redundant.
How??? I'm not saying that Dragonborn and Half-Orcs don't fit the same niche (but I'm not saying they do, either), but your arguments are pretty bad.
In fact, I might as well say:
Humans: Background of being versatile and common.
Tieflings: Dark background of corrupt people and tyrannical kingdom.
The same/redundant.
It just doesn't make any sense. You're taking two completely different fluff-stories and just randomly saying "Oh, they're the same." I might as well say that bunny rabbits and dinosaurs are the same, because, well, they both breathe.
Elves are skinny, Drow have drastically different motives and desires, and Elds (Elderian?)... Ok, one is nature and the other magic. Why Wizards felt these had to be two separate things is a parallel to this very argument.
So you're picking and choosing, basically. That's great. I'll follow your example and look for reasons to say that Tieflings and Humans are redundant.
Halflings are homebodies, Gnomes are currious and short, and Dwarves are stocky, sturdy race.
Dragonborn are the bruiser race, Warforged are not alive and are created, and Dwarves (Paste) are stocky, sturdy race.
Like the Elf and Eld, as you call it, the Dragonborn and Half Orc are the same, ugly races that have high str and a social stigma.
Where, WHERE, are you getting this ABSURD idea that Dragonborn have a social stigma??
THEY DON'T.
They are honored by many, in fact. NO SOCIAL STIGMA. Period.
That's the Tieflings, not the Dragonborn.
Ok.
I am disappointed that Wizards makes a replacement of the Half Orc in the first PHB only to bring him back (it has been confirmed) in the second. It is redundant and serves no purpose to have this monster race in a CORE book. Put the thing in the Eberron book was my hope, but alas...
How does it make no sense? It made less sense in 3e than it does in 4e. Half-Orcs are a perfect, let me repeat, PERFECT fit in a Points of Light setting.
I'm sorry, I just can't follow your arguments, at all. Maybe the Half-Orc and Dragonborn are redundant, I'm open-minded to that possibility-- but your arguments are horrid.
I, however, don't see the Dragonborn as a "replacement" for the Half-Orc (if anyone's a replacement, it's the Tiefling). I see the Dragonborn as a natural realization of the genre, and more specifically, the name of the game-- Dungeons and Dragons. That's what I thought when I first saw Dragonborn, "Oh look, now you can play the game's namesake! Awesome!" I didn't think, "Oh look, the new Half-Orc!" at ALL. That would make a lot more sense for the Tiefling, "Oh look, the new outcast race is the Tiefling instead of the Half-orc!"
The only parallel you've drawn is that they both have high strength.
Again, the Tiefling makes more sense. They don't have high strength, but they're ugly like half-orcs AND they fit the monstrous, "outcast" niche. Dragonborn do NOT fit that niche.
If anything, Dragonborn are 4e's Draenei (from WoW).
Of Course I am mad!
No, wait...
It's just that sometimes words fail to grasp the level of disappointment I have in this sad direction for the choices of races for the next PHB. It is bad enough the Gnome was delayed until PHB2 but to add the Half Orc when the replacement was already published previously is just... Well, words fail.
No, apparently words don't fail, because you're still typing!
Oh cursed he be,
that simian in a tree,
that created words for thee!
Author: Me, TBS.
Source: A thread of inane ramblings.
What cracker is this same that deafs our ears With this abundance of superfluous breath?
Author: William Shakespeare
Source: The Life and Death of King John (Austria at II, i)
But still his tongue ran on, the less Of weight it bore, with greater ease.
Author: Samuel Butler (1)
Source: Hudibras (pt. III, canto II, l. 443)
I do this, for the sake of all threads: I offer to publicly take your position on half-orcs and dragonborn in this thread, as of this point if you promise never, ever, EVER bring up half-orcs again. If you see a thread that is talking about them, you will bite your tongue, and move on. You will ignore it, as it is not there. It is with a heavy heart that I do this.. Don't anyone try to stop me.
Don't try to stop me.
I mean it folks don't try to stop me.
I really mean it.
Don't try to stop me...
Someone try to stop me.
FOR THE LOVE OF... SOMEONE TRY TO STOP ME!
No, apparently words don't fail, because you're still typing!
Oh cursed he be,
that simian in a tree,
that created words for thee!
Author: Me, TBS.
Source: A thread of inane ramblings.
What cracker is this same that deafs our ears With this abundance of superfluous breath?
Author: William Shakespeare
Source: The Life and Death of King John (Austria at II, i)
But still his tongue ran on, the less Of weight it bore, with greater ease.
Author: Samuel Butler (1)
Source: Hudibras (pt. III, canto II, l. 443)
I do this, for the sake of all threads: I offer to publicly take your position on half-orcs and dragonborn in this thread, as of this point if you promise never, ever, EVER bring up half-orcs again. If you see a thread that is talking about them, you will bite your tongue, and move on. You will ignore it, as it is not there. It is with a heavy heart that I do this.. Don't anyone try to stop me.
Don't try to stop me.
I mean it folks don't try to stop me.
I really mean it.
Don't try to stop me...
Someone try to stop me.
FOR THE LOVE OF... SOMEONE TRY TO STOP ME!
DON'T DO IT, SOMO!! NNOOOO!!!!
The "New" Half Orc is Noble in his own little world, holding true to his Orc past and not forgetting his heritage.
Or at least that is the impression I got from the Eberron campaign.
Perhaps the social stigma would be different between the two, one being frowned upon for the war while the other is an outsider that isn't trusted, but it would be there.
Wait are you referring to the Dragonborn/Tiefling war when you mention the war? Because that war was centuries ago by default fluff. That be like someone from Britain disliking a frenchman because of the Hundred Years' War. The event is just so far removed that no one is going to judge modern dragonborn by those events(and even if they did, the dragonborn would likely be seen in a positive light as they were fighting a demonic empire).
But aside from that, why wouldn't you expect the half-orc to be in the PHBII? In case you hadn't noticed, the theme of the PHBII seems to be covering all the classes and races from the 3.5 PHB that haven't made it yet into 4.0. So of course half-orcs are going to be in the PHBII, they have their fan base just like everything else in the book. And more importantly, if you don't like either race, don't use them. Eventually whatever it is you are looking for will come out. If you can't wait that long to use stuff like gnomes or shadar-kai or something, just use the ones in the back of the monster manual. The only thing missing is a couple of feats, which you could easily homebrew if you feel it a serious disadvantage.
Edit: actually, every non-covered class and race from the 3.5 PHB will be in the PHB II except the Monk. That's because WOTC appears to be trying to fill out each power source more fully before releasing new ones. This is so they can release new books dedicated to each power source, which they couldn't do if they just had one or two classes per power source.
I place the blame for this thread, and for thaX not shutting up about this, since we all know his position, squarely on the shoulders of docterhook.
doctorhook, you are now officially on the list.
...He beheld the chaos he had wrought, and saw that it was good.
Aren't you happy he's got his own place now, Somoflange?
By the way, thaX: Thanks for moving on and not threadcrapping on us anymore. I appreciate it.
Wait are you referring to the Dragonborn/Tiefling war when you mention the war? Because that war was centuries ago by default fluff. That be like someone from Britain disliking a frenchman because of the Hundred Years' War. The event is just so far removed that no one is going to judge modern dragonborn by those events(and even if they did, the dragonborn would likely be seen in a positive light as they were fighting a demonic empire).
Are you acquainted with the English two fingered gesture that is used in a manner like the north American one finger gesture known as flipping the bird. this dates back to a French bounty on the fingers of English longbow men.:D
I am disappointed that Wizards makes a replacement of the Half Orc in the first PHB only to bring him back (it has been confirmed) in the second. It is redundant and serves no purpose to have this monster race in a CORE book. Put the thing in the Eberron book was my hope, but alas...
Thanks for your opinion, but we already know it and don't much care. I'm glad that they kept it out of the Eberron book and I would have liked to see the 1/2orc in the first PHB (I'm not enjoying the anticipation).
are you acquainted with the English two fingered gesture that is used in a manner like the north American one finger gesture known as flipping the bird. this dates back to a French bounty on the fingers of English longbow men.
Are you acquainted with the fact that this a rather absurd urban legend and that the gesture goes back to Roman times?
http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/pluckyew.asp
half orc....or half dragon? I'm sure you would almost always get the same response from someone who has never played DND.
No, apparently words don't fail, because you're still typing!
Oh cursed he be,
that simian in a tree,
that created words for thee!
Author: Me, TBS.
Source: A thread of inane ramblings.
What cracker is this same that deafs our ears With this abundance of superfluous breath?
Author: William Shakespeare
Source: The Life and Death of King John (Austria at II, i)
But still his tongue ran on, the less Of weight it bore, with greater ease.
Author: Samuel Butler (1)
Source: Hudibras (pt. III, canto II, l. 443)
I do this, for the sake of all threads: I offer to publicly take your position on half-orcs and dragonborn in this thread, as of this point if you promise never, ever, EVER bring up half-orcs again. If you see a thread that is talking about them, you will bite your tongue, and move on. You will ignore it, as it is not there. It is with a heavy heart that I do this.. Don't anyone try to stop me.
Don't try to stop me.
I mean it folks don't try to stop me.
I really mean it.
Don't try to stop me...
Someone try to stop me.
FOR THE LOVE OF... SOMEONE TRY TO STOP ME!
I have not been visiting these boards regularly for a while, so maybe I missed some major defining post somewhere, but I read this thread, and the the thread where Doctor Hook suggested they make this one.
So I could ask, beg, and plead that you not follow through with this threat, but after some consideration I kind of wish you would, because maybe then I would actually be able to figure out what thaX is trying to say!
Also looking forward to Goliaths, and whatever other races we get
