Thanks,
Thanks to all who sent in their 2 cents. No honestly my eyes have been opened and though I dont like everything about what they did I see that Drow are easier to play now that they are given equal treatment in the game. I look forward to playing mine and thanks again for opening my eyes a bit guys.
Scurge StarKiller
There's no reference to level adjustment because that mechanic is dead; drow advance in their chosen class just like everybody else. The spell immunities are also gone (note that elves are also not immune to sleep effects). What you see in the FR Player's Guide is the 4e Drow.
there is no level adjustment because 4e Drow were designed to be actually playable as PCs.
They were too popular to NOT allow as PCs, yet their mechanics were the least PC friendly of all the established races.
Spell Resistance? Three spell-like abilities? 120' Darkvision? Screwy stat bonuses?
To make matters worse, their LA + 2 made them pretty much unplayable in 3.xE. A level 3 Drow Fighter with 10 HP? A level 5 Drow Mage without Fireball or Fly?
Trust me, Mr. Starkiller...what 4E did to Drow was the BEST statistical revision the evil emo dudes have seen since 1st ED.
Think about it...previously, Dark Elves were a "special" race. Few "standard" DMs allowed them, they were excluded from "Core" race additions, and there wasn't a whole lot of support for them.
Now? They've got a boat load of racial feats, special paragon paths, even an Epic Destiny. They are also so balanced that Drow is becoming as accepted and standard as Human or Dwarf.
This is a GOOD thing, as it means these guys are getting pulled from the status of "niche race" into full blow "standard race".
Trust me on this.
Until now, Drow were a statistical nightmare.
They were too popular to NOT allow as PCs, yet their mechanics were the least PC friendly of all the established races.
Spell Resistance? Three spell-like abilities? 120' Darkvision? Screwy stat bonuses?
To make matters worse, their LA + 2 made them pretty much unplayable in 3.xE. A level 3 Drow Fighter with 10 HP? A level 5 Drow Mage without Fireball or Fly?
Trust me, Mr. Starkiller...what 4E did to Drow was the BEST statistical revision the evil emo dudes have seen since 1st ED.
Think about it...previously, Dark Elves were a "special" race. Few "standard" DMs allowed them, they were excluded from "Core" race additions, and there wasn't a whole lot of support for them.
Now? They've got a boat load of racial feats, special paragon paths, even an Epic Destiny. They are also so balanced that Drow is becoming as accepted and standard as Human or Dwarf.
This is a GOOD thing, as it means these guys are getting pulled from the status of "niche race" into full blow "standard race".
Trust me on this.
Q.F.T.
This. All of this.
they said the ecl and la were great for encounters but stunk when it came to pcs.
even the duergar I imagine wont have one
Otherwise they are much better than the old ones, and I wouldn't say that the Drow were nerfed much, I think all others became as good as them. You should look up Dragon 367, I believe it was the last that was for free. Tons of cool feats, a very nice paragon path and an absolutely crappy epic destiny.:D
As far as I understand it, a 1st level drow PC had to be in a group of 3rd level characters (if their races had no LA) and would get their 2nd level at 6000 XP, 3rd at 10000, etc. As the SRD states, A monster with Hit Dice of 1 or less, a level adjustment, and class levels adds its class levels, and level adjustment together when determining experience needed (class level + level adjustment)
Personally, I'm not that happy with drow getting a charisma bonus out of all possible mental stats, but I suppose it's about as good a choice as can be made under the 4E mechanics. In effect, 4E tried to make all playable races playable from level 1, so it is normal that some of the more powerful abilities of formerly LA-restricted races would be nerfed.
Well let me just say this over all I like 4th edition. Trouble is I like so many people just got used to 3.5 version. To make matters worse Wizards poned Drow Characters. There is nothing in the new book about level advancement ect save for the racial bonus stuff plus 2 charisma and dex. Well whupdeydoooo. If anyone has any new info on either new books coming out ect please let me know. I have looked at both Forgotten Realms 4th ed books and there is little real useful meat in it regarding Drow as I said Before. I was really enjoying the special things drow could do along with the spell imunities to sleep and not to mention the drow feats. perhapse its our natures to resist change. Wizards I think all in all the new game system is great, I would just like a little more useful information in books that cost 40 dollars or more.
Thanks,
Scurge StarKiller
No single act of kindness no matter how small is ever wasted..... Aesop
No single act of kindness no matter how small is ever wasted..... Aesop
No good deed goes left unpunished :P
Q.F.T.
This. All of this.
Well .... not all of it ....
I really, really, really, really hate the racial ED's entire concept.
Well .... not all of it ....
I really, really, really, really hate the racial ED's entire concept.
yeah, I'm with you on this CM.
I felt let down by the racial ED big time.
Well .... not all of it ....
I really, really, really, really hate the racial ED's entire concept.
Yep, it's completely racist crap. Always be a good, nice drow and when your friends become gods, archmages, immortal warriors, or other cool things you die and are born again as a non-drow with nice pink skin. Because being a blackskinned drow is something horrible, gods have to die to transform drow into dark elves or you have to work very hard to prove that you are worthy of being not a drow. Am I the only one who thinks that it is funny that there's a destiny for elves that were mainly transformed through elven high magic to get rid of that while there's no such thing for those poor new tieflings, who are actually born as part-devils through some old fiendish pact (just for comparison, concerning me they can stay red and horned)???
But even this horrible crap has its merits. I just found the stats of Drizzt Do'Urden in the Character Builder and he took it. That means he won't become an immortal chosen, unkillable dark wanderer or something like that. When he finally dies he will be reborn as a pinky-skinned elf and we will never have to put up with him again!!!!
(Hey, hope dies last. Very painful and slowly.:D )
But as for 4e in general its not even getting a look from me for a few years until they get all their stuff togather. I learned that after I gave it a few looks and my head became the color of a cherry :headexplo
Beside power sources are for PCs only, monster powers don't have a power source specified and thus that resistance wouldn't come up.
It would be overpowered and would punish a power source for no reason?
Beside power sources are for PCs only, monster powers don't have a power source specified and thus that resistance wouldn't come up.
But oddly, the Chosen of Corellon power builds defense against Arcane powers. You know, the ZERO powers throughout the entire MM and MM2...
Hey, whatever happened to drow spell resistance? That was one of the iconic characteristics of the race. Why was it dumped in 4e, and is there any way to house rule it back? What would you think about giving drows for example a +5 bonus to defenses against arcane and divine powers?
Previously, magic was a lot more powerful than other stuff, therefore it carried with it a whole bunch of ways to attempt to nerf it, such as anti-magic fields, armor spell failure, concentration checks, and spell resistance.
Now that magic is not inherently more powerful than everything else, there is no need for monsters to have spell resistance.
Not for no reason, but for realism, since drow have always had that ability. If WotC doesn't mention the monsters's power sources, there could be a simple house rule for that based on creature type. Natural beasts would be martial, undead divine, dragons arcane, fey primal etc.
In that case, what would you call a Lich? Divine, because it's undead, or Arcane, because it's a wizard? My point is that you'd encounter a lot of problems with that kind of house rule.
Creating a type of "Spell Resistance" is definitely possible, although you'd need to be specific about what kind of "spells" (what keyword; Charm, Teleportation, Polymorph, etc.) the Drow should resist. Being able to resist all types of powers is much too powerful in a system where all attacks come from "powers", so we need to narrow it down. Alternatively, you could replace both of their Lolthtouched racial encounter powers with the Halfling's racial encounter power, Second Chance. (Once per encounter, you can force any attack against you to be rerolled.) Just rename it "Spell Resistance", and it could pass for it.*
*The biggest flaw with this idea is that then you'd be playing a character with the exact same racial power and the exact same racial stat bonuses as a Halfling, except taller and with darker skin. In short, without tweaks, my suggestion here is going to make either Drow or Halflings in your campaign basically redundant and obsolete. Why not just play a Halfling, then? :P
Hey, whatever happened to drow spell resistance? That was one of the iconic characteristics of the race. Why was it dumped in 4e, and is there any way to house rule it back? What would you think about giving drows for example a +5 bonus to defenses against arcane and divine powers?
Keep in mind that Drow Spell Resistance was tacked on by Gary Gygax to increase the threat level of a MONSTER ONLY race in a high level adventure module. If you REALLY think about it, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
-Drow have a high magic society...but they are innately resistant to it? Wards would fail all the time, magic bridges would collapse, and dogs would be breeding with cats! Oh the huge manatee!
-Drow prefer the Mage and Cleric class, and all powerful Drow NPCs are casters. Yet...this means that every other Dark Elf has up to a 50% to completely render said powerful NPC null and void. If a race was truly spell resistant, wouldn't they value non-magic using classes since you can't resist a blade in the face?
...
Let it go. Drow are better now.
Blade Resistance
You have a 20%+1/2level chance to resist a "Blade to the Face", you get no Damage and your beutifull visage is unharmed, for now.
Keep in mind that Drow Spell Resistance was tacked on by Gary Gygax to increase the threat level of a MONSTER ONLY race in a high level adventure module. If you REALLY think about it, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
-Drow have a high magic society...but they are innately resistant to it? Wards would fail all the time, magic bridges would collapse, and dogs would be breeding with cats! Oh the huge manatee!
-Drow prefer the Mage and Cleric class, and all powerful Drow NPCs are casters. Yet...this means that every other Dark Elf has up to a 50% to completely render said powerful NPC null and void. If a race was truly spell resistant, wouldn't they value non-magic using classes since you can't resist a blade in the face?
...
Let it go. Drow are better now.
Could be a sign of domination and one's own power when your magic is so strong as to punch through the resistance of any other drow (and indeed, any other creature).
for realism, since drow have always had that ability
That was the funniest thing I've read all day. Thanks for giving me a good hearty
Fourth edition did take some things away from the race as a whole automatic languages certain feats ect. but they have been replaced by some things so I guess ya take the good with the bad. I look forward to playing this new game and I hope with it being stream lined more people will play it and maybe some of the evil stereotypes might go away.
When evaluating the changes in 4E, you need to look at how the changes affect the game as a whole and not just one specific case. Things like spell resistance and level adjustment just did not work well in 4E. They did not take it away to screw drow players. They did it because the game can be better without it. 3.5 spell resistance was a cool thing to have, but you had to balance it in ways that many players did not like. The 4E drow had to be balanced with other PC playable races. I think they did a pretty good job. It is more playable with any class (specifically spell casters) and is balance with other races.
Not for no reason, but for realism, since drow have always had that ability. If WotC doesn't mention the monsters's power sources, there could be a simple house rule for that based on creature type. Natural beasts would be martial, undead divine, dragons arcane, fey primal etc.
Fey would be arcane and/or primal.
The most iconic of the fey, the Eladrin, are all depicted as arcane spellcasters (or martial with a touch of the arcane) in the MM and MM2, and definitely favor the arcane classes over primal or martial for PCs.
Also, arch-fey can grant both arcane power (through the warlock's fey-pact) or primal (because one of the Dragon magazines said so, iirc).
However the PHB2 describes the primal powersource as being tired directly to the primal spirits of the prime material plane. Fey, being from outside the natural order of the prime material plane, i.e. the Feywild, are not inherently primal. Oh they can take primal classes sure, but they are not in and of themselves primal.
True, and I personally agree with this.
However, I distinctly remember reading a piece in a Dragon article about a location where it's the resident arch-fey that grant primal power, which is what I was going on.
In my game the true-fey that weren't beguiled by the traitorous Corellon Larethian and remain loyal to either the Seelie or Unseelie court are either arcane or martial, the only other possibility would be psionic.
I am surprised that the OP didn't toss in Fireball and Magic Missile while he was at it. All three of them fall under the broken mistakes of editions past.
As far as the Drow are concerned " Fear leads to anger, A
nger leads to hate, Hate leads to Suffering!"The problem with Drow in the previous editions was that they where a Powergamer's broken toy chest. .
Not even. Drow were really weak weaksauce thanks to Level Adjustment. An Effective Character Level (ECL) 3rd level Drow had one hit die, was down two levels worth of class abilities and everything else. Imagine a 3rd level fighter with 10 HP, a +1 attack bonus, and only one bonus feat. or worse, a 3rd level wizard with 4 HP and still only first level spells.
To whit let me just say this; now Drow is a race everyone can play. GM's have no reason to say you cant be that mang!
Maybe just nit picking off topic here, but GM's do have a reason to say you cannot play a particular race. There are various reasons which I will not go into here.
What 4E has done mechanics wise is that GM's cannot disallow the drow for reasons of it being unbalanced. The 4E drow is balanced with other races. Players no longer have the benefit of being overpowered or disadvantage of being underpowered (depending on edition, class and level) when choosing to play a drow.
Scurge
Grab a 16 in STR either way and you won't have any problem really. Beastmaster need STR to hit and WIS for the bonuses to their beast companion... though Drow Beastmasters got a feat in Martial Power if you want. Taking a 16 in STR won't make you weaker and you can use your racial to bump your DEX to a worthwhile number so you can stay in Hide armor (works for both build).
Cha would be lost on a Ranger pretty much but a fighter can at least grab Intimidate as a class skill (though some good WIS would be good for a fighter too).
Personally I like the flavor of a Tempest fighter dual wielding spiked gauntlets or katars XD but if you want scimitars you can go for that too.
Now to kill a god you need more than just damage. Gods can't be killed until you meet certain conditions set by your DM, otherwise when bloodied they just disincarnate and return later at full power. So some knowledge skills would do you some good.
You know you could be a Sorcerer...those guys need CHA, can use DEX and don't usually care about gods (the Raven Queen used to be a sorceress ya know) and you could dual wield blades as implements and get bonuses as well as the ability to use two properties.
hehe...Drow Storm Sorcerer crackling with POWER!!!
However the PHB2 describes the primal powersource as being tired directly to the primal spirits of the prime material plane. Fey, being from outside the natural order of the prime material plane, i.e. the Feywild, are not inherently primal. Oh they can take primal classes sure, but they are not in and of themselves primal.
True, and I personally agree with this.
However, I distinctly remember reading a piece in a Dragon article about a location where it's the resident arch-fey that grant primal power, which is what I was going on.
There may also be archfey honored by elves and eladrin alongside their deities, possibly complicating the issue here.
I am playing this weekend and I need to rehash my toon from 3.5 to 4.0 I need to know where to start. feats and skills my buddy's the rogue of our party so probably dont need dungeoneering so nature there but as to the rest I am a Drow and I want to duel wield swords. my objective is to become a God so I follow none Save battle leaning towards Tempus if any of them but as I said I wish to become a God but I need a little advice I was told Beastmaster is the route to go if I am two weapon fighting due to drow being weaker than other races. My goal is to be the baddest in the group as far as damage output. but I as I said am lost when it comes to crucial skills and feats. A little help guys? Please? I am embracing 4th ed fully and a little input as to Ranger would be huge. I have read the advice on the columns but not all of it is clear. I would like some clear concrete advice thanks guys.
Scurge
So I am NOT a mechanics optimizer wiz at all, but this one sounds pretty straightforward. Seems like the best fit would probably be a Drow Two-Blade Ranger (wield two weapons + a striker's high damage) with the Lethal Hunter feat (increased extra damage die from d6 to d8) heading toward the Demigod epic destiny at 21st level. At 11th level, there are Paragon Paths that let you increase damage or other factors against certain foes (i.e., 3e favored enemies) such as the Ruthless Punisher PP (vs. humanoids). There are two-weapon fighting feats in PH and PH2 to gain bonuses while using two weapons.
Depending on how you want your character to feel and your story to unfold, you might multiclass as a Paladin or Avenger of Tempus for a direct divine connection. If you are really flexible with fluff and not necessarily hooked on the Ranger class, you might also consider a Tempest (<--I think) Fighter who does the two-weapon fighting thing or the Barbarian who does loads of damage. As long as you have a good Dex and/or Str you should still be able to take two-weapon feats, and you could multiclass into Ranger with the Two-Blade Warrior multiclass feat in the Martial Power book. (There are numbers to crunch for analyzing/optimizing all of that.)
As for Beastmaster Rangers, they gain an animal companion to fight alongside them in battle...which afaik would take focus away from two-weapon fighting. I'm not sure what the tip you heard was getting at, but it does include an opinion/assumption about the drow racial mechanics and, again, doesn't seem to have anything to do with two-weapon fighting.
@original topic: I like the 4e drow mechanics. Didn't I see a feat somewhere for levitation too? Other stuff you liked from 3e can probably be mimicked by feats somewhere. It's just that you don't get all of it at 1st level along with a set of complicated hindrances.
However the PHB2 describes the primal powersource as being tired directly to the primal spirits of the prime material plane. Fey, being from outside the natural order of the prime material plane, i.e. the Feywild, are not inherently primal. Oh they can take primal classes sure, but they are not in and of themselves primal.
Actually they are inherently primal. Notice the constant comparisons of Eladrin and forces of nature, and the numerous upper echelon Eladrin nobles who are labeled "Title" of "Nature based phenomena," like Braelani of Autumn Storms, or whatever.
One of the two Archfey epic destinies even centers around becoming the ruler of winter.
Actually they are inherently primal. Notice the constant comparisons of Eladrin and forces of nature, and the numerous upper echelon Eladrin nobles who are labeled "Title" of "Nature based phenomena," like Braelani of Autumn Storms, or whatever.
One of the two Archfey epic destinies even centers around becoming the ruler of winter.
Each of the four seasons is also identified with a deity (Summer = Pelor, Winter = Raven Queen, Autumn = Sehanine, and Spring = ...somebody else), but those deities are most certainly not Primal.
Fey are tied to the forces of nature, but not "naturally"; the Feywild is nature on steroids, whereas Primal represents "natural nature". Thematically though, its not hard to see why the two groups overlap; the distinction between them is both fine and meaningless.
I am playing this weekend and I need to rehash my toon from 3.5 to 4.0 I need to know where to start. feats and skills my buddy's the rogue of our party so probably dont need dungeoneering so nature there but as to the rest I am a Drow and I want to duel wield swords. my objective is to become a God so I follow none Save battle leaning towards Tempus if any of them but as I said I wish to become a God but I need a little advice I was told Beastmaster is the route to go if I am two weapon fighting due to drow being weaker than other races. My goal is to be the baddest in the group as far as damage output. but I as I said am lost when it comes to crucial skills and feats. A little help guys? Please? I am embracing 4th ed fully and a little input as to Ranger would be huge. I have read the advice on the columns but not all of it is clear. I would like some clear concrete advice thanks guys.
Scurge
Off-topic: Don't most new gods start out as followers of other gods? I mean, at 1st level, or even 10th level, isn't it a bit premature to eschew other deities, and (presumably) encourage some people to worship you? I'm just saying...
Off-topic: Don't most new gods start out as followers of other gods? I mean, at 1st level, or even 10th level, isn't it a bit premature to eschew other deities, and (presumably) encourage some people to worship you? I'm just saying...
Not really(at least in PoL). As I recall we only have three examples of new gods in the pantheon. The Raven Queen who killed a gos that she hated to gain his divinity. Asmodeus who killed his master to gain divinity. And Vecna who....did something in secret. *shrugs* None of them are really stated as having been worshippers of any other gods, and none of them are really on particularly good terms with the rest of the pantheon(so as to imply any kind of relationship prior to ascension).
I am playing this weekend and I need to rehash my toon from 3.5 to 4.0 I need to know where to start. feats and skills my buddy's the rogue of our party so probably dont need dungeoneering so nature there but as to the rest I am a Drow and I want to duel wield swords. my objective is to become a God so I follow none Save battle leaning towards Tempus if any of them but as I said I wish to become a God but I need a little advice I was told Beastmaster is the route to go if I am two weapon fighting due to drow being weaker than other races. My goal is to be the baddest in the group as far as damage output. but I as I said am lost when it comes to crucial skills and feats. A little help guys? Please? I am embracing 4th ed fully and a little input as to Ranger would be huge. I have read the advice on the columns but not all of it is clear. I would like some clear concrete advice thanks guys.
Scurge
You've gotten some good advice here, but if you want to really take advantage of what being a drow has to offer, I suggest you go rogue. DEX and CHA both benefit an Artful Dodger rogue, and you can cherry pick from Aerialist build powers as well. Darkfire grants you CA, which means Sneak Attack. Cloud of Darkness blinds enemies but not you, letting you, once again, Sneak Attack.
The Backstabber feat is a must. From there, you could MC into Ranger with some power-swap feats that emphasize 2 weapon fighting, but I strongly advise against that. I know you want to go two-weapon fighting, but 2 weapon rangers don't exactly need dex. Their priorities are STR->WIS->DEX at least in terms of what they use to attack. A Tempest Fighter uses DEX to some degree, I DM for a player with an elf Tempest Fighter, he does all right.
Why is the 2 weapon thing so important to you? If you want a two weapon drow but don't really have a concept for what class you want to play, I gotta be honest, it sounds like you just want to play Drizzt. In which case, my advice would be to start reading some different books, as well as come up with a character concept that's more unique to you, instead of one that's been ripped off thousands of times in DnD.
Not really(at least in PoL). As I recall we only have three examples of new gods in the pantheon. The Raven Queen who killed a gos that she hated to gain his divinity. Asmodeus who killed his master to gain divinity. And Vecna who....did something in secret. *shrugs* None of them are really stated as having been worshippers of any other gods, and none of them are really on particularly good terms with the rest of the pantheon(so as to imply any kind of relationship prior to ascension).
I dunno... I think for those three, there's all the rest whose origins (in 4E) remain a big question mark. As for their relationships with other deities, I think it's a mistake to read too much in that; Asmodeus and Vecna are both Evil (meaning they tend not to have many friends), while the Raven Queen inherited a portfolio which previously belonged to and Evil god. Personally, I like to think that the Raven Queen is a much more popular "neighbour" among the gods than Nerull was, despite the antagonism with which the D&DI article painted her.
I will concede, though, that perhaps 4E's PoL doesn't exactly support my theory. I was speaking in general terms, and it's based heavily upon my own opinion of how the gods (and their followers) would react to someone claiming their own divinity, especially during Heroic Tier.
I'm happy with the 4e Drow.
If you say the title of this thread really fast, it sounds like "Drown 4th Edition"!
Scurge StarKiller.
There's a feat Sorcerers can take... Reaper's Touch in Dragon 372 that lets you use the Sorcerer's at wills Acid Orb and Dragonforst as Melee Basic Attack by granting them the range of 'Melee Touch'.
Your party so far is fairly close combat oriented so a ranged striker like a Sorcerer would be cool.
With CHA you can also go Warlock. Star Pact would fit well.
And the Duel Implement Spellcaster in Arcane Power is what I was talking about. When you have an Implement in each hand you can add the enhencement bonus of both your implement to your damage rolls. So if you got a +3 dagger in one hand and casting a spell while you hold your old +2 dagger in your off hand you get +3+2 to your damage roll instead of simply +3!
You can also do something like that with a Bard (who incidently use Charisma as their attack stats) but you can't get Reaper's touch. Your party has no Leader class so far so it could be useful. I recomman Virtue of Valor and just dump INT in favor of DEX. You'll get good AC and good initiative that way.
Finally one last word of advice: paragraphs are your friends.
blade dancer is a dual wield ranger pp in martial powers.
blade banshee is there two also a dual wield ranger pp( must be elf)
and the only difference between demi god and chosen is that chosen of tempus gets something else and demi god gets that regeneration, the class features are the same.
there is also a dread fang pp, but to get that not only must one be drow, one must be a rogue.
Still no clear answer on dual classing or cross classing. Is it as simple as taking a level in another class and combineing the stats as best you can? Or is there more to it? I am having enough problems getting my single class toon ready and so I am totally lost as to how to do it at this point.
I do like the thought of a leadership role in the party since I have been playing so long, but I dont have a demand for it, and until my knowledge of the game is where it needs to be probably isnt warranted.
I am not used to playing casters, but I had forgotten that I played a War Mage in DragonLance a couple years ago. This was a prestige class that allowed one to use swordplay when spells were no longer an option.
This caster ya'll speak of? is swordplay the main method of attack or do I lead with spells? or is it simply up to me what I do?
wotc pulled them all.
but if you have the phb as a pdf already, you might consider getting the martial powers in hard cover before the phb in that form......
on the other hand maybe someone else around can help
Edit: For the record, I did buy the hard copy (as I did with all but 3 of the ones out) and passed on the PDF version.
40 bucks is an investment now a days. multiply it a couple times and its a real expenditure of time and money.It is worth the money though.
I love the game and I want Wizards to keep printing books, for that to happen people have to buy them. I Now have the books I needed. nothing like friendship and a lil coin. The Artwork for these books is superb. My hats off to Wizards I loved TSR but man Wizards has got it going on folks.
I finally found Scimitar Dance thank goodness. lol Not as great as I thought it would be thoguh but thanks for the pointers guys.
Good Adventuring to you all......
A bard applies his Charisma to his power's attack roll and damage rolls. A bard can sling spells, use a sword or even use a bow, they have powers to support all three.
Sorcerers get to use daggers as implements. Warlock get the Pact Dagger that acts as an implement. Swordmage get to use light blades and heavy blades. You also have a feat for Arcane classes that lets you use the implement of another class as your own, so you could be a Warlock who uses Daggers or Heavy Blades as implement instead of rods and wands.
If you want to go Ranger you only need PHB1.
A good idea for a group would be to spread out the spending, get a few to buy PHB1, some to buy PHB2 and some to buy Adventurer's Vault,Martial Power and Arcane Power for exemple so that you can share the books.
As for Drow stats I believe the Character builder demo is still free so you'd have the Drow stats in there no??
Multiclassing in fourth edition is done through feats. You take a feat to do the basic multiclassing and it gives you usually a skill training and one ability you can use once an encounter or once a day, depending. Then you take additionnal feats to swap powers between your main class and your second class. You can normally only multiclass into one class, but a bard has unlimited multiclassing as a class feature. Multiclassing allows you to pick a paragon path or epic destiny of the class you multi into.
A bard applies his Charisma to his power's attack roll and damage rolls. A bard can sling spells, use a sword or even use a bow, they have powers to support all three.
Sorcerers get to use daggers as implements. Warlock get the Pact Dagger that acts as an implement. Swordmage get to use light blades and heavy blades. You also have a feat for Arcane classes that lets you use the implement of another class as your own, so you could be a Warlock who uses Daggers or Heavy Blades as implement instead of rods and wands.
If you want to go Ranger you only need PHB1.
A good idea for a group would be to spread out the spending, get a few to buy PHB1, some to buy PHB2 and some to buy Adventurer's Vault,Martial Power and Arcane Power for exemple so that you can share the books.
As for Drow stats I believe the Character builder demo is still free so you'd have the Drow stats in there no??
Scimitar Dance is a paragon tier feat (i.e., you have to be at least 11th level) in the PH. You do damage even on a miss as long as you are using a scimitar.
Well I confess I do like the thought of playing a ranger drow due to the novels for me its new. I am also not so Niavet as to think my idea is original I know whole heartedly it is not. I also see ya'lls point though and concede once my character dies or i get bored i can start anew. thats the beauty of D&D right? I also have had a tremendous amount of help from all of you and I say thanks to each and everyone. Tempest fighter sounds interesting but now i think this sorceror might be the way to go since ie there is no mage in the party. HMMMMM could be fun never played a caster before either. I hear magic missile is an at will power and i am revamping my toon from 3.5 to 4 ed lvl 5 toon. I see the need for this striker though perhapse once i get used to the mechanics of 4th ed i can make a sorceror. thanks again for all the pointers guys i concede i know little if anything bout 4th ed but something tells me this is going to be awesome. the party has two fighters a fairy, rogue, ranger, and two new players though i know not what they will play. one last question guys its seems hard to cross class is it as simple as it was before or does it require a feat to do it? fighter ranger might pack a punch.
Scurge StarKiller.
No shame in being inspired by famous figures.
Like you said, you can always roll up more characters in the future.If you want to focus on higher damage, choose from classes in the Striker role (ranger, sorcerer, rogue, barbarian, etc.). High damage to (usually) one opponent at at time is what they do; they just all do it in different ways.
Party Composition
Adventuring parties usually benefit from having at least one character from each combat role--Striker, Leader, Defender, & Controller. They each focus on different jobs, and without that type of balance your group may have to tweak some basic tactics. However, unless the team and DM really want all roles covered, just pick what sounds fun for you.
But I think I will stick with ranger and go blade Dancer or check out this Scimitar Dance in the PHB even though I did not see it lol. I will find it. Crazy I know but all my questions are now answerd.
You guys have been awesome thanks so much and drop in any time perhapse once I know more i can impart advice too.
Scurge
(Omg this looks really long!)
Scimitar Dance is a paragon tier feat (i.e., you have to be at least 11th level) in the PH. You do damage even on a miss as long as you are using a scimitar.
No shame in being inspired by famous figures.
If you want to focus on higher damage, choose from classes in the Striker role (ranger, sorcerer, rogue, barbarian, etc.). High damage to (usually) one opponent at at time is what they do; they just all do it in different ways.Party CompositionAdventuring parties usually benefit from having at least one character from each combat role--Striker, Leader, Defender, & Controller. They each focus on different jobs, and without that type of balance your group may have to tweak some basic tactics. However, unless the team and DM really want all roles covered, just pick what sounds fun for you.
Until now, Drow were a statistical nightmare.
They were too popular to NOT allow as PCs, yet their mechanics were the least PC friendly of all the established races.
Spell Resistance? Three spell-like abilities? 120' Darkvision? Screwy stat bonuses?
To make matters worse, their LA + 2 made them pretty much unplayable in 3.xE. A level 3 Drow Fighter with 10 HP? A level 5 Drow Mage without Fireball or Fly?
Trust me, Mr. Starkiller...what 4E did to Drow was the BEST statistical revision the evil emo dudes have seen since 1st ED.
Think about it...previously, Dark Elves were a "special" race. Few "standard" DMs allowed them, they were excluded from "Core" race additions, and there wasn't a whole lot of support for them.
Now? They've got a boat load of racial feats, special paragon paths, even an Epic Destiny. They are also so balanced that Drow is becoming as accepted and standard as Human or Dwarf.
This is a GOOD thing, as it means these guys are getting pulled from the status of "niche race" into full blow "standard race".
Trust me on this.
I think the 2.0 Drow of the Underdark book did them the best update IMO.
Plus how can you really do the LA for drow? In Ebbie they worshiped a Scorpion Dude that allowed them only to be +1 LA . In Realms they worshiped a Spider "chick" that made them a +2 LA. So with that how can you have a race and have it be 2 things? Maybe Ebbie will call their "drow" Xen'Dirks or something and drop the entire Drow part.
Which is going to be fun is what do you do with Minotaurs? In Krynn these bad boys were the best thing since slice bread (Taladas: the Minotaurs 2.0 book). They nerfed them and the Gnoll so the Goliath would be a far better option; however, they put them in PHB3?
We all know that Dragonlance is coming since why put Draconians in the next DDM if you werent going to include them in a future project.
piracy issues mate, and I dunno where and if the book can be purchased as a pdf legally.
wotc pulled them all.
but if you have the phb as a pdf already, you might consider getting the martial powers in hard cover before the phb in that form......
on the other hand maybe someone else around can help
Fair Use Act.
piracy issues mate, and I dunno where and if the book can be purchased as a pdf legally.
wotc pulled them all.
but if you have the phb as a pdf already, you might consider getting the martial powers in hard cover before the phb in that form......
on the other hand maybe someone else around can help
WoTC did not pull them all, and you could still obtain them in a .torrent file download. And it's not piracy if you own the paperback copy. You paid for the content, you just want it in 2 media. Now if you gave that pdf to a friends...THEN it would be piracy.
WoTC did not pull them all, and you could still obtain them in a .torrent file download. And it's not piracy if you own the paperback copy. You paid for the content, you just want it in 2 media. Now if you gave that pdf to a friends...THEN it would be piracy.
That's total BS.
Its like people saying you can own an emulator copy of a game you own. That's not true AT ALL. Piracy is piracy is piracy regardless of how many times you buy the book
If you want to feel better about yourself then just keep telling yourself that little lie.
Undrave is correct. Even if you do take in to account some of the grey area surrounding making archive copies since the digital copy you've obtained was not made by you from the physical copy you legally purchased, automatically illegal.
You might want to look into the Fair Use Act.
No court in the country would hear the case against a person that owns a legit hard cover and attained a pdf copy. Since in this case the ends justify the means. Since it isn't illegal to have the copy since you have the original.
However it is true that no company would waste time on a small fry and would go after the original distributor himself, BUT just because you don't expect to be punished for something doesn't mean you should just go and do it!
Morality exists beyond the mere concept of reward and punishment.
Piracy????? is to make money from the sale of something that does not belong to you. copying a tape and storing the hard copy is prudent if nothing else. since a blank CD is so cheap now.
Honestly Ya'll Wise up, and if anything see that criticizing is not the way to make friends and influence people.
I want Wizards to stay in the biz. I am not the enemy. I like knowing what I am buying.
Morality exists beyond the mere concept of reward and punishment.
The reverse is also true though. Not everything that's illegal is actually morally wrong, which is why people still do them without feeling bad. For example, despite its illegality, there's nothing really morally wrong with owning a PDF of a book that you have purchased and own.
The best thing companies could do to stop piracy is for them to provide an exCerpt of each book and let people see whats available to generate buzz and sales.
They already do this each month on the main site for free, currently it's Eberron Campaign Guide and Divine Power.
The Drow in this current version is, in my mind, more like the "Dark Elves" from elsewhere, mechanically anyways. This isn't a dig, though, I like the current write up of this race.
-- -- --
The Fair Use Act has been eaten away little by little in the last three decades. Disney in particular has fought it to "protect" their icons like Mickey Mouse from being used without Royalties.
It is the reason there are generic cola or beer containers in scenes of movies instead of "Coke" and "Miller Lite" being used. Soon, we won't be able to film a building without paying someone for the privilege.
Don't talk to be about piracy and put out the Fair Use Act as some sort of legitimacy, that don't fly. It is attitudes like this that brought about the DRM schemes in Vista and useless suits in the courts.
-- -- --
The difference between PDF's and the Emulation software is that a consumer really can't make copies of the Cartridge system games, so the only real way to get the game for the emulators is to get one from those that can make those copies. Most of the old games, before the cd systems and such, are not really out there being sold anymore. There were some re-released games on the GBA, and the games you can get on the Wii, but before that it was the old crusty system that may work with that dirty cartridge.
Nintendo still is trying to get them taken down, now, since the Wii can sell them again.
Artist sample beats rip off other artist and make new songs. writers and players expand on the D&D universe by playing games aka DragonLance hello people.
We may be seeing the end of free thought one day. Hold on I thought of that first where's my Dollar when it happens?
This arc started bout talking about Drow and thats where I would like it to go. I know I started out complaining bout the Drow in 4th ed, but I am pleasantly surprised and happy with it and Drow.
How bout ya'll?
Our game went well tonight. I am enjoying 4th edition and dare I say it? It is the best version so far!!! once again hats off to Wizards.
Thanks to everyone for their advice on my character it was a huge help! I ended up playing a duel wielding Ranger, but I might just branch out and get a pet leaning towards Mastiff If I get one at all.
I think the game is so much better and the fact that negatives have been dropped off all the races is a deffinate plus. Drow is so much more accessable now and though I am playing a Ranger, I am not a stereotype.
I wont lie though and say I didnt pay homage to Drizzt, but this character is quite different from him. Heres to ya'll God bless.
Scurge
I am not a stereotype.
Not to be rude, but you most certainly ARE a stereotype if you're playing a:
-Drow
-Dual Scimitars
-Good Aligned
-Ranger
You are playing an extremely specific copy of an extremely specific character.
...
Is that wrong?
If you and your group are having fun, then of course not! Have an entire group composed of Drizzt clones for all I or anyone else should care! Have at it!
In fact, few player characters are NOT a stereotype in one sense or another.
Elven Archer Ranger? Legolas Clone!
Gruff Dwarven Fighter? Gimli Clone!
Cynical Human Assassin? Artemis Clone!
Plucky Halfling Rogue? Tasslehoff Clone!
...
I had a Drow Rogue Sharpshooter in a game...and while I originally thought he was very unique, I realized that I played his personality VERY similar to Jarlaxle.
In another game I have a fallen Tiefling Paladin of the Raven Queen. Pretty unique, right? Actually, I realized that his concept is loosely based on Lord Soth from Ravenloft.
Yet another character (this one 3.5E) was a Hellbred (Fiendish Codex 2) Crusader (ToB: Bo9S) of Ilmater using a spiked chain and struggling for atonement. SUPER creative, right? WRONG! I realized after the fact that I basically ripped of Spawn!
...
So relax, take a deep breath, and realize that fun is the bottom line. Don't fool yourself into thinking your Dual Wielding Good Aligned Drow Ranger is a completely unique and original concept...it isn't, and that's ok! Just have fun, and ask around if you have any questions.
In the end, it's YOUR game.
I had to poke fun though and its nice to see others out there with a sense of humor for it is lacking in the world outside. If you like a good book Check it out a very good story about a man that could have been a great hero but instead fell to darkness.
I think its all in the way you look at things you could look at anything and think its a rip off of whatever. Like poor Ole Vanilla Ice, He got hit with a four million dollar fine for using under pressures music, but really is a sound unique? I dont think so but hey what I think does not matter.Everyones out there to get paid and its not like Queen or David Bowie are broke!
I totally agree with you my friend fun is what its about totally. And who said my toons good? lol my party dont even know that. I mean I am Drow after all, Jarlaxle plays a role in my story though and I might even write a book about our adventures. We will see how long we live though.
Not to be rude, but you most certainly ARE a stereotype if you're playing a:
-Drow
-Dual Scimitars
-Good Aligned
-Ranger
You are playing an extremely specific copy of an extremely specific character.
...
Is that wrong?
If you and your group are having fun, then of course not! Have an entire group composed of Drizzt clones for all I or anyone else should care! Have at it!
In fact, few player characters are NOT a stereotype in one sense or another.
Elven Archer Ranger? Legolas Clone!
Gruff Dwarven Fighter? Gimli Clone!
Cynical Human Assassin? Artemis Clone!
Plucky Halfling Rogue? Tasslehoff Clone!
...
I had a Drow Rogue Sharpshooter in a game...and while I originally thought he was very unique, I realized that I played his personality VERY similar to Jarlaxle.
In another game I have a fallen Tiefling Paladin of the Raven Queen. Pretty unique, right? Actually, I realized that his concept is loosely based on Lord Soth from Ravenloft.
Yet another character (this one 3.5E) was a Hellbred (Fiendish Codex 2) Crusader (ToB: Bo9S) of Ilmater using a spiked chain and struggling for atonement. SUPER creative, right? WRONG! I realized after the fact that I basically ripped of Spawn!
...
So relax, take a deep breath, and realize that fun is the bottom line. Don't fool yourself into thinking your Dual Wielding Good Aligned Drow Ranger is a completely unique and original concept...it isn't, and that's ok! Just have fun, and ask around if you have any questions.
In the end, it's YOUR game.
Sir Galahad (lawful good paladin)
Renaud de Chatillon (chaotic neutral "paladin") (He's the real life Templar troublemaker portrayed in the movie "Kingdom of Heaven.)
Friar Tuck
Robin Hood
Not to be rude, but you most certainly ARE a stereotype if you're playing a:
-Drow
-Dual Scimitars
-Good Aligned
-Ranger
You are playing an extremely specific copy of an extremely specific character.
...
Is that wrong?
If you and your group are having fun, then of course not! Have an entire group composed of Drizzt clones for all I or anyone else should care! Have at it!
In fact, few player characters are NOT a stereotype in one sense or another.
Elven Archer Ranger? Legolas Clone!
Gruff Dwarven Fighter? Gimli Clone!
Cynical Human Assassin? Artemis Clone!
Plucky Halfling Rogue? Tasslehoff Clone!
...
I had a Drow Rogue Sharpshooter in a game...and while I originally thought he was very unique, I realized that I played his personality VERY similar to Jarlaxle.
In another game I have a fallen Tiefling Paladin of the Raven Queen. Pretty unique, right? Actually, I realized that his concept is loosely based on Lord Soth from Ravenloft.
Yet another character (this one 3.5E) was a Hellbred (Fiendish Codex 2) Crusader (ToB: Bo9S) of Ilmater using a spiked chain and struggling for atonement. SUPER creative, right? WRONG! I realized after the fact that I basically ripped of Spawn!
...
So relax, take a deep breath, and realize that fun is the bottom line. Don't fool yourself into thinking your Dual Wielding Good Aligned Drow Ranger is a completely unique and original concept...it isn't, and that's ok! Just have fun, and ask around if you have any questions.
In the end, it's YOUR game.
It sounds like the real culprits here are probably the underlying character archetypes, as opposed to superficial stereotypes and tropes.
The Spawn revelation was hilarious, btw!
Anything can be imagined to be a clone of something else trouble is a clone of whom? Is any halfing rogue Tasselhoff Burrfoot or Bilbo Baggins? I say no I think each one of us brings to the table something unique to our games.
If we model our characters after someone; that's ok but how we play them and the feats ect personalities we add are entirely our own. Even if we model a personality after someone loosley its only because thats what we know of a race ect.
I reckon a sure fire way to avoid being pigeonholed would be to play an Evil Halfling Lich or a sorceror ect. perhapse even then I have come up with some stereotype. Lol.....
I know only what I have read about and from learning how each race is supposed to act. So of course modeling is commonplace. I think in many ways it is unavoidable. If you play a minotaur are you kaz? If you play a knight are you Huma? if you are a red robed mage are you Raistlyn? Only the person playing said character knows.
Any of us would be foolish to say we have never modeled a character. indeed from the first time I read the Choose your own Adventure book Dungeon of Dread which I still own I was hooked on D&D. I picked it up at a garage sale. probably bout 8-9years old.
I defeated the wizard Kalman and his basilisk took his treasure after backtracking through some misteps. TSR started it all guys but Wizards has made it better no doubt about it.
Am I Drizzt Do'Urden? no I am Drizzel everyone fights with basterd swords ect or sword and shield I couldnt help but want to play out Drizzts story the way I would do it, but hey I think Lolth must be deposed altogether and I hate the fact that some evil chick runs a whole race of people.
I say again I am not Drizzt but I did model my toon after him and I love the books R.A. Salvatore is the best modern writer since Tolkien and Lewis but thats just me. I never played a Ranger either.
My story begins in WaterDeep and unlike Drizzt I am not a good character at least not yet.
WATCH THE WATER THAT IS NOT WATER AND BEWARE THE BASILISK......
Thanks,
Scurge
The only thing that bugs me about Drow Archer Rangers is that I find the visual of a Drow using a Longbow ridiculous. I don't know why...it just seems WRONG. I've never been able to get over that.
Instead, I've played Drow Archer Rangers who threw daggers/shuriken, used a "Sniper" Crossbow (Superior Crossbow), and wielded Hand Crossbows. That just seems so much more "in flavor" for a Dark Elf than a big honking Robin Hood bow.
Of course, if pure mechanically meat is your flavor...make sure you get a Greatbow. Pure win.
Ohh the humanity......
Scurge
Mechanically, Archer would be better for a Dark Elf. The bonus to Dexterity will serve you well, and Cloud of Darkness means you get CA at least two rounds every combat. If you want to risk missing, Darkfire means two rounds of CA for EVERYONE.
The only thing that bugs me about Drow Archer Rangers is that I find the visual of a Drow using a Longbow ridiculous. I don't know why...it just seems WRONG. I've never been able to get over that.
Instead, I've played Drow Archer Rangers who threw daggers/shuriken, used a "Sniper" Crossbow (Superior Crossbow), and wielded Hand Crossbows. That just seems so much more "in flavor" for a Dark Elf than a big honking Robin Hood bow.
Of course, if pure mechanically meat is your flavor...make sure you get a Greatbow. Pure win.
the ranger can go twf and take feats for archery,o r see what ranged powers you can take with it.
or take archery and take the feats and powers for it.
after all it DOES say suggested powers......
I know what you mean bout Drow not being prone to using long bows, but perhapse if they had Talmaural they would. but I digress it does seem wrong. I cant decide to go mellee two weapon fighting ranger again and taking weapon prof long bow ect as a ranger or archer ranger and taking the two wep feat. Seems archer can ping from far off but i am used to playing a close combat character. I thought I could go archer and take quick draw as a feat and then go melee once enemies closed with me. since I am starting at level one tho i thought split the tree for daily and twin strike for at will. two weapon fighting so once i got into melee I can dish it out. I might be trying to do too much here bro but I am not sure....
Ohh the humanity......
Scurge
I'm big on efficiency and economy when it comes to creating characters. There never seem to be enough feats, so I like to focus on specific weapons/abilities that will cover a wide spread.
For instance, one of my absolute favorite concepts is the Knife Fighter. Daggers in melee, daggers at range...he can fight in any environment without changing weapons or shortcutting his feat choices. Sure, the dagger is a low damage...but it makes up for damage with versatility.
No, I'm not trying to get you to play a dagger user. I'm trying to make a point.
My point is that you cannot build a character who can do everything WELL. You can build your ranger to fight in melee and ranged...but his use will be diluted and you may never really feel useful compared to more specialized characters. Likewise, a specialized character needs to realize that they are less optimal out of their chosen specialty...and make adjustments accordingly.
Bottom Line: Play what you want, but accept the consequences for your decisions. Sure, create a melee/ranged Ranger. Just accept that you won't be as good in melee or ranged as a specialized character. If you're ok with that, then go for it!
...just please, no threads screaming, "My Ranger sucks compared to the specialized melee Rogue!"
;p
Happy gaming!
You as always make a good point too in saying I cant do it all. I can do one or two things well or several things poorly. message recieved my friend and thanks for the pointers.
I took quick draw as my starting feat so I dont have to use an action to switch from ranged to melee. I figure I will ping a few critters from far off and when they close cut them down like wheat.
next feat at second level either Scimitar Dance or Lethal Hunter. one I can do more damage with one blade or the other or per attack it seems though archer works best since both attacks come from the bow and a d10 hit for each.
I can stay with the bow as long as possible then switch to scimitars when they close. Still crossbow might be more interesting and racial specific.
As always thanks for the advice guys.
Scurge
I'm big on efficiency and economy when it comes to creating characters. There never seem to be enough feats, so I like to focus on specific weapons/abilities that will cover a wide spread.
For instance, one of my absolute favorite concepts is the Knife Fighter. Daggers in melee, daggers at range...he can fight in any environment without changing weapons or shortcutting his feat choices. Sure, the dagger is a low damage...but it makes up for damage with versatility.
No, I'm not trying to get you to play a dagger user. I'm trying to make a point.
My point is that you cannot build a character who can do everything WELL. You can build your ranger to fight in melee and ranged...but his use will be diluted and you may never really feel useful compared to more specialized characters. Likewise, a specialized character needs to realize that they are less optimal out of their chosen specialty...and make adjustments accordingly.
Bottom Line: Play what you want, but accept the consequences for your decisions. Sure, create a melee/ranged Ranger. Just accept that you won't be as good in melee or ranged as a specialized character. If you're ok with that, then go for it!
...just please, no threads screaming, "My Ranger sucks compared to the specialized melee Rogue!"
;p
Happy gaming!