Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 almuric Mar 30, 2009 13:22:26	Has anyone noticed the April 6th entry in the Editorial Calendar? http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/calendar April 6th: DRA: Playtest PH3 Dual Classing Did I miss an announcement somewhere? What's that all about? I thought we were stuck with the present multi-classing rules? Anybody have a lead on what this is gonna be?
#2 morvannon Mar 30, 2009 13:23:38	Has anyone noticed the April 6th entry in the Editorial Calendar? http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/calendar April 6th: DRA: Playtest PH3 Dual Classing Did I miss an announcement somewhere? What's that all about? I thought we were stuck with the present multi-classing rules? Anybody have a lead on what this is gonna be? I suspect we'll have a lead on April 6.
#3 daidojitaidoru Mar 30, 2009 14:12:43	Has anyone noticed the April 6th entry in the Editorial Calendar? http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/calendar April 6th: DRA: Playtest PH3 Dual Classing Did I miss an announcement somewhere? What's that all about? I thought we were stuck with the present multi-classing rules? Anybody have a lead on what this is gonna be? .... They can't possibly be bringing back 1st/2nd ED Dual classing. Could they? I'm not sure if I'm thrilled or terrified.....
#4 oxybe Mar 30, 2009 14:18:50	"terrilled" would be the word you're looking for DaidojiTaidoru. old school dual-classing... man... it could work... in theory... but still weird...
#5 Ninja_Ferret Mar 30, 2009 14:21:34	Dual classing in 2nd was pretty dumb and a pain to accomplish.
#6 undrave Mar 30, 2009 14:21:38	I thought Paragon Multiclassing was dual classing. Especially with the paragon level MC feats to give more features.
#7 arderkrag Mar 30, 2009 14:27:37	.... They can't possibly be bringing back 1st/2nd ED Dual classing. Could they? I'm not sure if I'm thrilled or terrified..... It could work in theory. 1st level, fighter. Take appropriate powers. 2nd level, rogue. Ditto. Repeat ad astra.
#8 Ninja_Ferret Mar 30, 2009 14:29:40	Maybe they are letting you pick two classes and get X amount of Class Features. Then you get to pick powers from one or the other class for levels.
#9 Swordsman1612 Mar 30, 2009 14:45:42	Human dual classing from 2nd AD&D? God, I hope not. What a convoluted mess that was!
#10 Stuntman Mar 30, 2009 14:59:28	Before anyone jumps to conclusions, there is no information that suggests what dual classing really is. For all we know, it could even be Gestalt characters from 3.5 UA. I must say, I am very interested and cannot wait until next week.
#11 canamrock Mar 30, 2009 15:16:38	Given it's in a PHB, it must be at least vaguely balanced to fit in the framework of LFR gaming. My guess would follow the 'split features' theory. So perhaps they'll have stripped down class setups for the a'la carte design. Like... Fighter/Rogue - Sneak Attack, Mark w/ attacks, Combat Challenge. Pick powers from either class (one at-will from each)? It'll be interesting to see.
#12 almuric Mar 30, 2009 15:22:48	I can't remember, was 2e dual-classing like 1e? If so, it didn't bother me. I almost always dual- or multi-classed, back in the day. I liked having multiple skill sets to fit the situation. I can't imagine what this is going to be. I'm sure it won't be anything like 1e/2e. I'm not 'terrilled' exactly, but 'abnormally excited' might be close.
#13 krownhunter07 Mar 30, 2009 15:27:04	Well, seeing as my wife's favorite PC is/was/will be again a Gestalt Warlock/Rogue, this is good news for me and mine. So long as they (WotC) do what they can to keep it balanced (which I'm sure they will), it will, IMHO, be a great step toward allowing more personalized customization.
#14 Ninja_Ferret Mar 30, 2009 15:30:56	I can't remember, was 2e dual-classing like 1e? If so, it didn't bother me. I almost always dual- or multi-classed, back in the day. I liked having multiple skill sets to fit the situation. I can't imagine what this is going to be. I'm sure it won't be anything like 1e/2e. I'm not 'terrilled' exactly, but 'abnormally excited' might be close. Dual Classing in 2nd as a human was a pain. If you went from like Fighter to rogue. You couldnt use any weapon you where proficent with from your fighter class. You also required a 17 in the main stat from the class you where going into. You couldnt use anything from your old class. >.< Now multiclassing in 2nd was good. I liked that. Sorta like Gestalt in a way.
#15 Xaielao2 Mar 30, 2009 15:47:46	I didn't play much 1st E (was playing a lot of basic back then.) But 2nd E Duel Classing was indeed a pain, but it had it's benefits. I have a suspicion that 4e Duel Classic will be very different. Guess we'll find out on the 6th.
#16 darkless_one Mar 30, 2009 16:44:15	I am -just- afraid. I am not excited. I am -just- afraid.
#17 Steely_Dan Mar 31, 2009 3:15:01	Of course it won't be like 1st/2nd Ed Dual Classing. Does anyone know someone who actually became a 1st Ed Bard?
#18 Belorin Mar 31, 2009 4:38:43	I actually through the whole rigamarole to become a Bard in 1st edition. Amergin, a ftr/thf/bard 7/7/7. Amazingly, by the time I had gotten to this point, the 2nd edition was out and the bard class was nerfed. I also had a couple dual-classed characters, one was a fighter/magic-user 4/9and a assassin/cleric 9/5. Bel
#19 aliothefool Mar 31, 2009 5:48:22	I'm intrigued and excited. I absolutely despise the current "multiclassing" rules.
#20 big_pete Mar 31, 2009 5:51:16	I am very keen to see how they do it Currently I am not that big on paragaon multiclassing, it seems better and simpler to merely take a M/C and a Paragon Path based on that class. It will likely be different to what we expect, but that is ok. Generally I think wizards has done a reasonable job of maintaining game balance as such I will reserve my judgement until I see which direction they are generally going with the playtest and perhaps playtest it myself to see how it work in practice
#21 Steely_Dan Mar 31, 2009 6:32:35	I actually through the whole rigamarole to become a Bard in 1st edition. Amergin, a ftr/thf/bard 7/7/7. That's commendable, I also don’t know of anyone who got near Grand Master of Flowers.
#22 jwt Mar 31, 2009 10:15:12	Of course it won't be like 1st/2nd Ed Dual Classing. Does anyone know someone who actually became a 1st Ed Bard? While I never made a Bard I did dual class with a f/t/mu 12/13/14 in a night below campaign. Once you made it through the first class it was surprisingly easy to progress through the next considering the geometric progression of XP given out.
#23 almuric Mar 31, 2009 11:29:30	I had a 1e bard - Dorian. Had a 2-handed sword of healing. We used to have 'minimal' bards and 'maximal' bards. I believe it was 5-7th level fighter before switching to thief, then 6-9th level thief before switching to bard. So you could have a 5/6/1 bard or 7/9/1 bard. While a thief below your fighter level, you couldn't use any of your fighter stuff. Only stuff a thief could use and you had to roll on the thief table (at your thief level) to hit. Once you were a bard, though, that restriction went away and even at first level bard you could use all your fighter and thief powers. If you wore armor better than leather, though, you couldn't do any of the thief things like hide in shadows, move silently. I don't think you could even disarm traps or open locks. We were all about 'Bracers', so I don't remember it being all that much of a problem. And in 1e you couldn't 'dual-class' more than once. So, by strict interpretation of the rules, you couldn't go to a third class. (Bard was special.) I don't remember the '17 in the prime stat' restriction. Maybe that was a 2e thing. My oldest character went to 19th level fighter, then dual-classed as a mage. First few levels flew by but I remember him being stuck at the mid-teen magic-user levels for a while. Once he got to 20th level though, he was awesome. Fought with 2 +5 long swords. (-2 on one, -4 on the other, but since he was rolling on the highest fighter level table, he really only missed on a 1 even then.) Plus meteor swarm for clearing out lots of baddies. God, I loved 20+ level fireballs/lighting bolts. All those dice, scattered across the table. Good times, good times... what were we talking about? Oh. I really can't imagine how they're gonna do dual-classing now. One at-will from each class? Pick and choose which class to get the encounter/daily powers from at each level? Maybe they have to be balanced - i.e., if you have 2 encounter powers, one has to be from each class. I can see why they're making this a playtest. I bet this thing's gonna go through a lot of revisions. Could be really powerful. Could also be as meh as Paragon Multiclassing, too. Can't wait to see.
#24 wizardmon Mar 31, 2009 12:22:22	Like somebody said in the last thread on this topic, I recall that the 4e designers mentioned that multiclassing came in two flavors: small dip and heavy dip. I hope that Dual Classing is this "heavy dip," and that it provides characters a way of being truely balanced true hybrids... If Dual Classing took up separate design space from the current multi-classing... Then it would add HUGE amounts of character customization to the game! Imagine: Dual classing two main classes, but still taking multi-class feats! You are then essentially the member of 3 classes! Even more if you are a bard!! LORD, then Multi-classing would not only earn its name, but RE-earn its name (since it was really just dual-classing, but then Dual Classing took the name!) Again, so long as Dual-Classed characters are balanced hybrids, I will be very happy. I cannot tell you all how long I have wanted a fully hybridized Warlock/Swordmage, Fighter/Rogue and Two-Weapon Ranger/ in 4e. If Multi-Classing is complatible with Dual-Classing, then I would also be able to create my Warlock/Druid(Student of the Plague), and Warlrod/Barbarian(Fighter multiclass) characters I dreamt up one day. Ahhh... Bring it on!
#25 undrave Mar 31, 2009 12:53:24	Like somebody said in the last thread on this topic, I recall that the 4e designers mentioned that multiclassing came in two flavors: small dip and heavy dip. I hope that Dual Classing is this "heavy dip," and that it provides characters a way of being truely balanced true hybrids... If Dual Classing took up separate design space from the current multi-classing... Then it would add HUGE amounts of character customization to the game! Imagine: Dual classing two main classes, but still taking multi-class feats! You are then essentially the member of 3 classes! Even more if you are a bard!! LORD, then Multi-classing would not only earn its name, but RE-earn its name (since it was really just dual-classing, but then Dual Classing took the name!) Again, so long as Dual-Classed characters are balanced hybrids, I will be very happy. I cannot tell you all how long I have wanted a fully hybridized Warlock/Swordmage, Fighter/Rogue and Two-Weapon Ranger/ in 4e. If Multi-Classing is complatible with Dual-Classing, then I would also be able to create my Warlock/Druid(Student of the Plague), and Warlrod/Barbarian(Fighter multiclass) characters I dreamt up one day. Ahhh... Bring it on! So basically...going class-less?
#26 AvonRekaes Mar 31, 2009 13:09:38	Personally, I can't wait. Once I saw the gestalt rules in the 3.5 UA, I never played a non-gestalt 3.5 game since. I loved it, my players loved it, everyone loved it. And all I had to do was knock 1 off the CR of monsters. It was great.
#27 wizardmon Mar 31, 2009 20:41:48	So basically...going class-less? Class-less between two classes. Which is fine, really. But the issue there becomes what class features do you get when... Otherwise, you might as well just paragon multi-class and take the other feats (but even that option stinks.)