Dungeon Builder

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

the_shrinks

Jun 19, 2009 0:58:31
I remember hearing about this sweet software app where Insiders could generate dungeons via computer, and then play with the characters in the dungeon, with the map hidden to the PCs and encounters programed, etc. Is this still happening, or did they scrap the project alltogether? I couldnt find anything about it in D&D insider features, and this really is why I would subscribe in the first place. Anyone know if and when it's coming out?
#2

alphasquirell

Jun 19, 2009 1:16:32
I remember hearing about this sweet software app where Insiders could generate dungeons via computer, and then play with the characters in the dungeon, with the map hidden to the PCs and encounters programed, etc. Is this still happening, or did they scrap the project alltogether? I couldnt find anything about it in D&D insider features, and this really is why I would subscribe in the first place. Anyone know if and when it's coming out?

If I remember correctly, it was scheduled to come out when 4e came out, or very shortly thereafter.

Right now, it's on the list of "promises broken by WotC", and that's about it. (unless there's very-recent new news I haven't heard)
#3

ranadiel

Jun 19, 2009 5:25:57
What you are describing is actually two pieces of software the Dungeon Builder(for making the maps) and the Virtual Table Top(for playing games on them). Presently WotC has a "one tool at a time" policy as they realized that they tried to do too much initially and it ended up hurting them. The tool they ar currently working on is the Campiagn Tools. It is believed that the Dungeon Builder has been absorbed into the Campaign Tools and will be one of the features of the next piece of software. After this is complete they will likely move on to working on either the Character Visualizer or the Virtual Table Top. I personally would expect Visualizer next as the VTT needs that in order to reach full functionality. There are currently no dates for when anything can be expected to be complete.
#4

Bolongo

Jun 20, 2009 3:03:30
I think the Encounter Builder is supposed to be included in there as well. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking, since that's the one tool I'm really jonesing for. ;)
#5

tentonape

Jun 22, 2009 20:06:59
master plan does that. Its not official or complete but....
#6

thescalesoffate

Jun 23, 2009 18:55:03
I think the Encounter Builder is supposed to be included in there as well. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking, since that's the one tool I'm really jonesing for. ;)

Isn't there already an Encounter Builder in the Bonus Tools?
#7

elwyndas

Jun 24, 2009 8:21:36
The bonus tool encounter builder only contains MM I monsters.
#8

Vilnias_Nastavnik

Jun 24, 2009 22:07:13
The bonus tool encounter builder only contains MM I monsters.

Actually, it was updated at the beginning of the month, I just checked and Rust Monster is on the list.
#9

peteyc

Jun 24, 2009 22:44:27
The current encounter builder is a bit annoying, since it doesn't tell you what book or magazine anything came from, and it doesn't let you view the stats of the creatures as you scroll through them. This means you pretty much have to use it with the compendium or your books next to you. There's a lot of potential for making a better encounter builder if they tried, one that sorts monsters with many more options, and lets you view them as you work.
#10

al3x_b

Jun 24, 2009 22:56:48
The current encounter builder is a bit annoying, since it doesn't tell you what book or magazine anything came from, and it doesn't let you view the stats of the creatures as you scroll through them. This means you pretty much have to use it with the compendium or your books next to you. There's a lot of potential for making a better encounter builder if they tried, one that sorts monsters with many more options, and lets you view them as you work.

That which you seek is staring at you. Click on the eye bonehead :P
I kid, but seriously clicking on the eye opens up the compendium entry, and at the bottom of the entry it list the original source.
#11

peteyc

Jun 25, 2009 8:54:19
Whoa, totally missed that. Thanks much.

Incidentally, I still think they could have many more search options, if they wanted, and hope to see some improvements in the encounter generator as part of the campaign tools. Still, this is quite a handy feature that I was completely oblivious to before.
#12

bluetetris3000

Jun 25, 2009 9:38:37
What irks me most about this is that there is no way the screenshots: There and There exist and yet we still don't have a finished copy. We've had these screens as old as November, and in six months they could not put together even the dungeon builder, which would just be an improved MapTool? Ridiculous. I would gladly accept less content each week if I could get both before the end of '09.
#13

dreamdarwin

Jul 03, 2009 22:46:37
Don't hold your breath. Unfortunately Wizards does not have its own electronics department, and management didn't understand what a stable product would take to develop.
#14

thax

Jul 04, 2009 11:22:25
Don't hold your breath. Unfortunately Wizards does not have its own electronics department, and management didn't understand what a stable product would take to develop.

I don't see this as a valid excuse. Maybe before this new edition was release, but not now. Hasbo, the "Parent" company, has plenty of resources and experience with electronic software.
#15

Caeric

Jul 06, 2009 20:40:59
I don't see this as a valid excuse. Maybe before this new edition was release, but not now. Hasbo, the "Parent" company, has plenty of resources and experience with electronic software.

I recall reading that less money was being distributed as such for Wizards of the Coast to use. It's possible they're operating on a tighter budget than when they made their promises.
#16

thax

Jul 06, 2009 20:47:12
I recall reading that less money was being distributed as such for Wizards of the Coast to use. It's possible they're operating on a tighter budget than when they made their promises.

The budget for the whole DDi initiative was below what was needed to effectively launch the projects that was proposed. That they are working with less money than what they started with is moot since the starting point was low margin to begin with.

They did this same thing with E-Tools.
#17

doctorhook

Jul 06, 2009 23:20:36
The budget for the whole DDi initiative was below what was needed to effectively launch the projects that was proposed. That they are working with less money than what they started with is moot since the starting point was low margin to begin with.

They did this same thing with E-Tools.

E-Tools was a whole different can of worms.
#18

balesir

Jul 07, 2009 4:35:32
What irks me most about this is that there is no way the screenshots: There and There exist and yet we still don't have a finished copy. We've had these screens as old as November, and in six months they could not put together even the dungeon builder, which would just be an improved MapTool? Ridiculous. I would gladly accept less content each week if I could get both before the end of '09.

Just a personal opinion, but I would much rather they built the thing properly rather than got it out sooner. To do that there are certain steps that you cannot simply throw resource at; you have to get a solid design concept, then a solid design, then document and check that design before you start serious coding (and a few GUI and GFX mockups are not 'serious coding'). Once you start coding you can ramp up the number of folk you have working on it - before that point too many cooks just spoil the broth.

For what it's worth there are a number of features I would love to see in a 'DM's Assistant' type app. beside the "no-brainers" and what has already been mentioned.

First off would be a tool for generating homebrew monsters, starting with the guidelines in the DMG - i.e. pick role, level, etc. as your start point and customise the default numbers into a new beastie. Alongside this would be tools for applying templates and modified levels to all monsters per the DMG guidelines, not just giving the 'standard version' of each.

Next would be true scale printing of maps; in other words not just the Windows standard "scale to paper size" options, but "one square on the map prints out at exactly this size in the print" option, so that I can print out bespoke dungeon tiles for my dungeon when the standard ones just don't fit the shape I want. A decent colour palette setup would be useful here, also, so that I can tune the output to look right on my printer.

Also linked to maps, it would be neat to be able to make them pretty, of course, importing and even creating our own tile designs, but it would also be neat to have a standard set of overlay symbols (like the DDM 'difficult terrain' symbol, as an example) for all the terrain options listed in the DMG. Having these on a separate layer in the map builder would be ideal.

I have seen at least one DM report playing D&D4E using a hexagonal combat grid. Many games use this, and it would certainly enhance the attractiveness of the tool for general RPG use if it could handle it. As a future DMG(N) option I think it would be cool, too.

Finally, I would really be wowed if the design of the dungeon builder was really carefully thought out as regards 3D. Here I'm thinking of things like the ability to overlay different dungeon levels in semi-transparency to match up your stairways, chutes, holes, etc. - maybe you add these once in a combined view and they appear on both levels? Also I'm thinking of clear nomenclature/symbols/build methods for different ground levels, cliffs, dropoffs, ceilings and so on. Basically accounting for the fact that the dungeon is built in a 3D grid of cubes and not on a 2D grid of squares. With the (3D) VTT this could then translate to awesomeness...
#19

Daybreaker

Jul 07, 2009 13:46:34
It has been a very long time coming, hasn't it?

I'm not sure I'll actually make that much use of it. I kind of like pencils and graph paper. But if it's cool, I'll find an excuse to play with it.
#20

Daybreaker

Jul 07, 2009 13:49:27
Finally, I would really be wowed if the design of the dungeon builder was really carefully thought out as regards 3D. Here I'm thinking of things like the ability to overlay different dungeon levels in semi-transparency to match up your stairways, chutes, holes, etc. - maybe you add these once in a combined view and they appear on both levels? Also I'm thinking of clear nomenclature/symbols/build methods for different ground levels, cliffs, dropoffs, ceilings and so on. Basically accounting for the fact that the dungeon is built in a 3D grid of cubes and not on a 2D grid of squares. With the (3D) VTT this could then translate to awesomeness...

Yeah, that would be great. My own artistic skills are not so great that I can do 3D on graph paper very well.
#21

balesir

Jul 07, 2009 15:36:16
Well, if the graph paper is isometric I can make an OK fist of it, but generally I agree...

What I had in mind, though, was more 'ways to mark up a 2D map so that it has the information needed to render it in 3D'.
#22

thax

Jul 07, 2009 18:01:18
E-Tools was a whole different can of worms.

It started just the same way as DDi, and ended up being taken over by a competent publisher/company that stretched the flawed data base as much as they could for the rules heavy 3rd edition.

Just as DDi will suffer a similar fate when 5th edition comes out, E-Tools and relevant Data packs were taken away (no talks on the renewal of the license just when the replacement program that can do what E-tools can't was about to be done.)

It is a pattern, one that still holds.
#23

doctorhook

Jul 07, 2009 20:05:55
It started just the same way as DDi, and ended up being taken over by a competent publisher/company that stretched the flawed data base as much as they could for the rules heavy 3rd edition.

Just as DDi will suffer a similar fate when 5th edition comes out, E-Tools and relevant Data packs were taken away (no talks on the renewal of the license just when the replacement program that can do what E-tools can't was about to be done.)

It is a pattern, one that still holds.

No, because three years after Master Tools was announced, the only things that had been published were two patches for that damned demo program that came on a CD in the back of my Player's Handbook. OTOH, D&DI is already alive and well, having produced one hundred times that amount content in less than one-third of the time it took to make E-Tools marketable. D&DI has a fully functioning, fully updated Character Builder, a similarly updated and functional searchable online rules database, a pair of online magazines, a handful of minor "bonus tools", and a forthcoming Monster Builder program.

D&DI may be missing some of the things that were talked about, but it's leagues ahead of E-Tools already.
#24

thax

Jul 07, 2009 20:20:17
I still don't see it at the stores.

The latest thing was the word wrap snafu for the Character Generator, that still a problem?

What I see is the lack of choices for what I want to use as software aids. It is this, or nothing, at the moment.

I don't want to end up paying a monthly fee for a bit part of an service that I would use.

I just have the one question, the same one I have asked before.

Where is the stand alone character generator program that should have taken the place of E-Tools? DDi is not it.
#25

doctorhook

Jul 07, 2009 20:35:34
I still don't see it at the stores.

The latest thing was the word wrap snafu for the Character Generator, that still a problem?

What I see is the lack of choices for what I want to use as software aids. It is this, or nothing, at the moment.

I don't want to end up paying a monthly fee for a bit part of an service that I would use.

I just have the one question, the same one I have asked before.

Where is the stand alone character generator program that should have taken the place of E-Tools? DDi is not it.

You're complaining about D&DI not being like E-Tools? You're complaining about "lack of choice for what [you] want to use as software aids," by comparing D&DI to a buggy program that took literally years to limp its way onto the market? D&DI already offers tons more than E-Tools did; I know tons of people with D&DI subscriptions, but hardly anyone who paid for E-Tools.

FWIW, the Character Builder is "stand-alone" in a sense; you simply download it, and you don't ever need to update your subscription again, nor do you need internet access to use it.

"I just have one question, the same one I have asked before:" Where is the car that runs on water and drives itself? thaX is not it.