this bard will feature an aura that will allow allies to heal themselves with a minor action twice an encounter.
a few issues with this
If this is true, then I'd hope that the bard can still spend his own actions... that the "target can spend it's action" is an option, not a requirement.
this bard will feature an aura that will allow allies to heal themselves with a minor action twice an encounter.
a few issues with this
If this is true, then I'd hope that the bard can still spend his own actions... that the "target can spend it's action" is an option, not a requirement.
it is a passive aura that requires the other person to spend a minor action to heal. i assume activating the aura is an action but you can take it out of combat easily, the bard has pretty much no action taken this way
so i found out the following information on the new bard coming out soon, this is from a friendly source and i have not seen any actual publication on this, i trust the source though.
the next bard will be a cha based MBA user, who is more or less the oppsite of the bladesinger.
basically it will make an attack, and then shoot off some buff,
but here is the downside, most leaders have a healing word or, more or less, its equal surge+bonus healing. this bard will feature an aura that will allow allies to heal themselves with a minor action twice an encounter.
a few issues with this
1. unless you can slap on some serious heavy armor, melee is not where you want your leader
2. how are you supposed to get unconsious people back up?
3. you are dipping into other people's action economy, this is terrible since your striker cant make his minor action attacks or make minor action buffs, your defender cant switch stances or mark and your controllers cant sustain things, it compleatly rips up the way other characters are ment to function.
i dont know 100% sure and this is more or less speculation, but this sounds like the worst class in 4e, this is coming from me! a guy who has defended the freaken vampire!
Lucky you, to have a friend on the inside!
An MBA Leader who's up in the fray, chopping to buff, and giving off an aura of goodness sounds mighty fun to me!
1. The Virtue of Valor is a current Bard build that places the Bard front and center in combat, and it's a quite effective build option. Melee is exactly where you want your Leader to be if his effects are melee dependant, he has meaningful things to contribute, and he's designed to be in such a situation. -- Bards are intended to be in the fray; based on their armor proficiency, shield proficiency and their powers providing melee weapon attacks (of which there are many).
2. If the Bard is unable to awaken unconscious people, I'm fully cool with that. His words, buffs and heals are inspirational; it's difficult to be inspired when you're down for the count. -- This change in the Bard's manner of effect would bring him more in line with how I view the Bard; mostly martial (effective beyond human capability with his skill and words) with a little arcane (able to bring about magic with silvered words/song). The all-arcane emphasis in this edition kind of made him more of an entertaining Wizard, as opposed to a Rogueish minstrel able to influence through magic-infused talent. I'm happy they're shifting emphasis back to where it more appropriately belongs (in my opinion).
3. Dipping into other people's action economy is something new, so I'll have to see it in action before making a decision about it either way. Although, it doesn't sound too obtrusive given that it's only 2 minors the entire encounter. -- We'll see!
Excited for this!
Yay Bards! 2) Here I totally agree with the OP, and disagree with mrpopstar. Martial flavour means you fail at healing? Maybe you should look at the warlord, who feels very martial despite being able to yell at people to stand back up.
3) As long as the bard can still use minors to heal other people in it, I'm fine with it. That way people can heal themselves in your aura while you're stunned, dazed, dominated, etc. It opens up some nice abilities, just having it require other people's actions only would be icky.
I don't like the fact its an MBA spammer, but they're slowly starting to grow on me. I just hope its actually good at its primary role, unlike the Sentinel and Bladesinger.
1) Like every leader in the game is melee, seriously, only a few leaders have ranged builds (often just 1) the only "pure" ranged leader is the Shaman, who has a pet who's in melee most the time in order to give buffs.
2) Here I totally agree with the OP, and disagree with mrpopstar. Martial flavour means you fail at healing? Maybe you should look at the warlord, who feels very martial despite being able to yell at people to stand back up.
3) As long as the bard can still use minors to heal other people in it, I'm fine with it. That way people can heal themselves in your aura while you're stunned, dazed, dominated, etc. It opens up some nice abilities, just having it require other people's actions only would be icky.
I don't like the fact its an MBA spammer, but they're slowly starting to grow on me. I just hope its actually good at its primary role, unlike the Sentinel and Bladesinger.
I did not state, nor imply, that martial flavor means "you fail at healing". -- I merely presented reasoning, in terms of flavor, for my opinion that words of encouragement are best heeded when you're conscious and capable of hearing them.
Careful drawing attention to the Warlord. -- He may be revised in the same way! (never know...)
distancting melody: when you succeed with a MBA while this arua is active. until the beginning of your next turn enemies cannot shift while in the aura. if an enemy uses a shift to enter a square in the aura form outside the aura his movement stops.
i suppose that if you missed with your melee attack and failied to trigger the song's effect it would mean that you failed to propperly concentrate on singing well while being under the pressures of combat. that would make sense to me.
having your friends spend their actions to activate your healing powers is a lil odd but as long as the bard can toss some of those heals himself i dont think there will be a problem. the relyance of MBA is a lil wierd too. I mean i knew it was going to be fighter inspired but i just thought that meant the bard might get musical stances it could use at-will that buff all allies in the aura. not a slash n buff to the bladesinger's slash n zap. maybe something like, when you succeed with a MBA while this aura is active. allies in the aura gain +2 AC until the end of your next turn, would be closer to my vison. i would not perfer single target buffs. everyone who can hear should be able to hear the song. here are some other ideas.
distancting melody: when you succeed with a MBA while this arua is active. until the beginning of your next turn enemies cannot shift while in the aura. if an enemy uses a shift to enter a square in the aura form outside the aura his movement stops.
i suppose that if you missed with your melee attack and failied to trigger the song's effect it would mean that you failed to propperly concentrate on singing well while being under the pressures of combat. that would make sense to me.
Auras should affect all within, I agree.
The statements related to the class at GenCon outlined an AEDU class that resembled the Knight, with auras and songs.
Perhaps this will be the "Spoony" subclass of bard...
* The level 8 party I'm currently DMing for would have TPKed at least half a dozen times by now if their leader's healing was restricted like that.
A leader who can't heal stunned or unconscious allies and who effectively robs a dazed ally of their whole turn in order to heal them sounds like a leader I would not want in my party*. I mean, I can certainly imagine ways WotC could implement this in a way that didn't completely suck, but based on some of their recent releases, I do not trust the current design team to do that.
Perhaps this will be the "Spoony" subclass of bard...
* The level 8 party I'm currently DMing for would have TPKed at least half a dozen times by now if their leader's healing was restricted like that.
Spoony?
hopefully it will be changed before it hits the shelves, maybe a dev is reading this and could see the issue with this.
if the bard used its own actions to heal people, then i would be giddy, because i hate the current 4e bard. but i cant heal people who are under adverse conditions, and i cant enable people to press the advantage because of minor action stealing.
hopefully it will be changed before it hits the shelves, maybe a dev is reading this and could see the issue with this.
Hate is such a strong term. LOL
Why do you hate the current Bard?
And a light armour wearing melee leader only sucks if they don't have a lot in Int or Dex, light armour can surpass many heavy armour classes in AC depending on how high the ability score is.
if the bard used its own actions to heal people, then i would be giddy, because i hate the current 4e bard. but i cant heal people who are under adverse conditions, and i cant enable people to press the advantage because of minor action stealing.
hopefully it will be changed before it hits the shelves, maybe a dev is reading this and could see the issue with this.
Hate is such a strong term. LOL
Why do you hate the current Bard?
well i suppose dislike is a better term, its not how i invision bards, they are more or less healwizards i dont feel like a jack of all trades like the bards from old editions.
A leader who can't heal stunned or unconscious allies and who effectively robs a dazed ally of their whole turn in order to heal them sounds like a leader I would not want in my party*. I mean, I can certainly imagine ways WotC could implement this in a way that didn't completely suck, but based on some of their recent releases, I do not trust the current design team to do that.
Perhaps this will be the "Spoony" subclass of bard...
* The level 8 party I'm currently DMing for would have TPKed at least half a dozen times by now if their leader's healing was restricted like that.
Spoony?
A bard fan who doesn't know the term "spoony"? Looks like Mr. Popstar was too busy doing mall shows to play Final Fantasy IV.
if the bard used its own actions to heal people, then i would be giddy, because i hate the current 4e bard. but i cant heal people who are under adverse conditions, and i cant enable people to press the advantage because of minor action stealing.
hopefully it will be changed before it hits the shelves, maybe a dev is reading this and could see the issue with this.
Hate is such a strong term. LOL
Why do you hate the current Bard?
well i suppose dislike is a better term, its not how i invision bards, they are more or less healwizards i dont feel like a jack of all trades like the bards from old editions.
They don't feel like "Healizards" as much as they feel like entertaining magicians; which, I agree, is in opposition to the silver-tongued Rogue who has magic-infused talent of editions past.
I do, however, feel that there is a place for the archetype of each of the 4E Bard builds, and I welcome them as wonderfully built, balanced and engaging additions to the game.
About the only thing we really know is the new Bard build is a "Skald" but don't know for sure if it's officially called the Skald.
And a light armour wearing melee leader only sucks if they don't have a lot in Int or Dex, light armour can surpass many heavy armour classes in AC depending on how high the ability score is.
Agreed!
It's a shame the way 4E stats, riders and defenses work in tandem and how that impunes upon a Bard that is a Cha, Int, Dex combo; which is what they should really be. The constitution emphasis still feels odd, even after so long.
Maybe it's just me, but there seems to be an awful lot of hate flying around regarding what appears to be pure speculation. Maybe we should see some confirmation before zeroing the sniper scope?
QFT
A leader who can't heal stunned or unconscious allies and who effectively robs a dazed ally of their whole turn in order to heal them sounds like a leader I would not want in my party*. I mean, I can certainly imagine ways WotC could implement this in a way that didn't completely suck, but based on some of their recent releases, I do not trust the current design team to do that.
Perhaps this will be the "Spoony" subclass of bard...
* The level 8 party I'm currently DMing for would have TPKed at least half a dozen times by now if their leader's healing was restricted like that.
Spoony?
A bard fan who doesn't know the term "spoony"? Looks like Mr. Popstar was too busy doing mall shows to play Final Fantasy IV.
There's so much truth to that statement that it isn't even funny. LOL
It's a shame the way 4E stats, riders and defenses work in tandem and how that impunes upon a Bard that is a Cha, Int, Dex combo; which is what they should really be. The constitution emphasis still feels odd, even after so long.
I totally agree with this. I can think of flavorful reasons for Hit Points to be derived from any ability score.
Strength: I'm strong enough to fight through the pain.
Constitution: I'm tough enough to take the beating.
Dexterity: I'm flexible enough to keep fighting by shifting my weight off the leg you just shattered.
Intelligence: I'm smart enough to know how to mentally numb the pain.
Wisdom: I've got enough awareness to know how to move across the battlefield without injuring myself further.
Charisma: Oh, it hurts like The Nine Hells, but I'm sure as heck not going to give you the satisfaction of seeing me suffer, so I'll just grit my teeth and keep singing/casting/raging/whatever.
There's no real reason I can think of for Constitution to be so vitally important that it can't take a back seat as the Dump Stat every so often without nerfing my HP and Healing Surge pool.
It's a shame the way 4E stats, riders and defenses work in tandem and how that impunes upon a Bard that is a Cha, Int, Dex combo; which is what they should really be. The constitution emphasis still feels odd, even after so long.
I totally agree with this. I can think of flavorful reasons for Hit Points to be derived from any ability score.
Strength: I'm strong enough to fight through the pain.
Constitution: I'm tough enough to take the beating.
Dexterity: I'm flexible enough to keep fighting by shifting my weight off the leg you just shattered.
Intelligence: I'm smart enough to know how to mentally numb the pain.
Wisdom: I've got enough awareness to know how to move across the battlefield without injuring myself further.
Charisma: Oh, it hurts like The Nine Hells, but I'm sure as heck not going to give you the satisfaction of seeing me suffer, so I'll just grit my teeth and keep singing/casting/raging/whatever.
There's no real reason I can think of for Constitution to be so vitally important that it can't take a back seat as the Dump Stat every so often without nerfing my HP and Healing Surge pool.
Nice, very nice, though I would like to see Con used more as a primary/attack stat, like maybe a Sorcerer that uses Con instead of Cha (watch as my hardiness manifests/contains magic or what have you); maybe with the upcoming Elementalist.
It's a shame the way 4E stats, riders and defenses work in tandem and how that impunes upon a Bard that is a Cha, Int, Dex combo; which is what they should really be. The constitution emphasis still feels odd, even after so long.
I totally agree with this. I can think of flavorful reasons for Hit Points to be derived from any ability score.
Strength: I'm strong enough to fight through the pain.
Constitution: I'm tough enough to take the beating.
Dexterity: I'm flexible enough to keep fighting by shifting my weight off the leg you just shattered.
Intelligence: I'm smart enough to know how to mentally numb the pain.
Wisdom: I've got enough awareness to know how to move across the battlefield without injuring myself further.
Charisma: Oh, it hurts like The Nine Hells, but I'm sure as heck not going to give you the satisfaction of seeing me suffer, so I'll just grit my teeth and keep singing/casting/raging/whatever.
There's no real reason I can think of for Constitution to be so vitally important that it can't take a back seat as the Dump Stat every so often without nerfing my HP and Healing Surge pool.
Nice, very nice, though I would like to see Con used more as a primary/attack stat, like maybe a Sorcerer that uses Con instead of Cha (watch as my hardiness manifests/contains magic or what have you); maybe with the upcoming Elementalist.
I've wanted a Con primary Sorcerer for a looonnnngg time now!
I've wanted a Con primary Sorcerer for a looonnnngg time now!
I've found with the original Sorcerer that you can substitute Con for Cha as the primary score, and Cha for Str as the secondary.
The thing that I never liked about 4e Bards thus far is their lack of feeling like a bard from previous editions. It felt like I had to just imagine myself a bard mechanically, which sucks because pre4e bards were such a unique playstyle. This speculated build could bring back the unique factor back to the class, that is if the Bard can do more minor actions that help with this aura effect.
The thing that I never liked about 4e Bards thus far is their lack of feeling like a bard from previous editions.
If they were to really bring that back, they should make them Primal, and embrace the "under druidical tutelage' glory.
The At-Wills of the present Bard are some of the freshest, funniest, most enjoyable and tactically applicable effects available at first level. <3 I hope that this Bard holds up to snuff in that regard.
But no, I'm sure that would be too interesting.
Maybe allies in the aura also have an extra minor action, one they can take even when they're stunned or unconcious, and doesn't use up their one action when dazed. So most of the time it's a great boost to action economy, and this way the action taken by the healee is just the action the bard had granted it in the first place. And a bard inspiring rapid action via his song is totally in character.
That. would. be. TEH AMA21NG!!11!
I've wanted a Con primary Sorcerer for a looonnnngg time now!
I've found with the original Sorcerer that you can substitute Con for Cha as the primary score, and Cha for Str as the secondary.
Hey since hit points include a bunch of raw abstraction like heroic luck... that makes CON the luck stat too.
And I also treat it as the Instinct stat it has active uses not just passive ones.
It also feels pretty good for magic of the blood...
1.) The idea i heard for a Warlock was to allow those Feylock class feature to substitute Charisma for Con in any power with one of the Feylock riders
2.) also I like dragonborn as Str/Cha too.
1.) But should not a class's riders be a separate ability score from the primary attack ability score?
2.) But now they have +2 to Cha, with a choice of +2 to Str or Con.
2) that is why dragon sorc (con, cha) is the way it should go, imho.
1.) The idea i heard for a Warlock was to allow those Feylock class feature to substitute Charisma for Con in any power with one of the Feylock riders
2.) also I like dragonborn as Str/Cha too.
1.) But should not a class's riders be a separate ability score from the primary attack ability score?
2.) But now they have +2 to Cha, with a choice of +2 to Str or Con.
2) that is why dragon sorc (con, cha) is the way it should go, imho.
I agree entirely. Too bad the dragon sorcerer came out before flex stats did. Dragon magic in particular screams Con, not Str to me.
Con as Instinct and luck makes a great attack stat - the strength of the Elementals in your blood manifesting in high CON sounds ok to me also.
I've found using Con for all the Sorcerer's attacks, and using Cha for all the Str riders works well. A lot of people were annoyed that the Sorcerer was another Arcane Striker that also uses Cha like the Warlock.
So you'd rather have an arcane striker using Con...also like the warlock?
Con as Instinct and luck makes a great attack stat - the strength of the Elementals in your blood manifesting in high CON sounds ok to me also.
I've found using Con for all the Sorcerer's attacks, and using Cha for all the Str riders works well. A lot of people were annoyed that the Sorcerer was another Arcane Striker that also uses Cha like the Warlock.
So you'd rather have an arcane striker using Con...also like the warlock?
Ha, no need for the condescending ellipses; most of the Warlock powers are Cha-based (only the "magical" Starlock has to really bite the bullet), which brings up my question as to what the hell is with the Pre-E cleric and Paladin not having errata that they have to rely on one ability score for all attacks (I don't see any other classes in the game dealing with that problem)
Con as Instinct and luck makes a great attack stat - the strength of the Elementals in your blood manifesting in high CON sounds ok to me also.
I've found using Con for all the Sorcerer's attacks, and using Cha for all the Str riders works well. A lot of people were annoyed that the Sorcerer was another Arcane Striker that also uses Cha like the Warlock.
So you'd rather have an arcane striker using Con...also like the warlock?
Ha, no need for the condescending ellipses; most of the Warlock powers are Cha-based (only the "magical" Starlock has to really bite the bullet),
Most infernals use Con too pretty darn heavily.... enough so that a STR/CON rager Fighter/InfernaLock works fairly well.
It also gives a weak rationale for levying a feat tax on the Bard for swapping class features with the Skald - the Bard got ritual caster for free. So the Bard pays his feat tax, or the Skald takes Ritual Caster and they're 'even.'
Rituals are not abandoned, they just still don't know how to fix them.
Rituals are not abandoned, they just still don't know how to fix them.
Maybe an exclusive class feature?
Rituals are not abandoned, they just still don't know how to fix them.
Maybe an exclusive class feature?
That wouldn't fix them. They are broken in that they either aren't worth their gold cost, with a very small number of exceptions.