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Elemental Magic

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Haldrik
Dec 06, 2011 0:27:14 Coming soon, Heroes of the Elemental Chaos (HotEC) explores “elemental magic”.

Presumably, this means the “elemental power source”.

Yet a separate power source remains uncertain, the announced “elemental” classes are actually builds of current arcane and psionic classes: the Wizard (Shair), the Sorcerer (Elementalist), and the Monk (Shugenja). Therefore, like the Shadow power source, the elemental tends to avoid functioning as a fully separate power source. It wont have its own suite of classes.

Other power sources will manipulate the elemental power source. For examples, the In-the-Works article previews the book as follows: The arcane “fireball spell harnesses elemental flame”. The elemental power source is a “greater power than the primal magic that controls it”. And so on. Apparently, the elemental “chaos” is inherently incapable of organizing, thus necessarily other power sources exert their “will” over it to manipulate it.

As far as I can tell, the elements will organize similar to Magic The Gathering. Theres the Fire-Earth pair and the Air-Water pair.

The book description says: “Masters of fire and earth. Lords of air and water.” It seems to me, the description is precisely correct: fire and earth are one category, and air and water are an other category.

The illustration for the new class builds (from the artists blog) convinces me: The Elementalist Sorcerer seems clearly a “master of fire and earth”, while the Shugenja Monk and the Shair Wizard seem clearly “lords of air and water”. Meanwhile the book cover appears to be a fire-earth character, tho Im unsure of which class.

So, Fire-Earth and Air-Water, are the *two* mystic elemental paths.
#2
incenjucar
Dec 06, 2011 1:45:48 That is almost certainly just a poetic device. Certainly, those combinations work very well together, and they may even focus on them, but pure-elemental elementals and 3+ element elementals are pretty deeply ingrained in 4E as well as past editions.
#3
Shroomy
Dec 06, 2011 10:16:34 Just as the Elemental Chaos provides the building blocks for reality, it appears that it also provides them for magic of all sorts. Kind of a neat idea if you think about it.
#4
Janx_14
Dec 06, 2011 15:14:04 Though I'm kind of curious why fireball doesn't have the Elemental keyword given that description.
#5
Marandahir
Dec 06, 2011 19:43:51 It's pretty cool to me how Elemental and Shadow are both additive sources, and yet they are basically antitheses: Shadow is what is there in the spaces between, cast as a dark, well, shadow, by the other power sources.

Elemental, on the other hand, is the fundamental building blocks beneath the other power sources.

Shadow is the lack of other magics, Elemental is fundamental to all other magics.
#6
Janx_14
Dec 06, 2011 21:45:41 Considering that shadow latches on to other power sources, I wouldn't call it a "lack" of other magics.
#7
Aetharion
Dec 07, 2011 4:33:48
Considering that shadow latches on to other power sources, I wouldn't call it a "lack" of other magics.

It seems rather like a remnant or reflection, but a reflection taken to the extreme that has gained separate existence.
#8
Shroomy
Dec 07, 2011 10:21:39 Shadow seems parasitic to me.
#9
incenjucar
Dec 07, 2011 10:44:55 Shadow is just another patron now, like gods, spirits, or devils.

While primordials also make excellent patrons, I hope that they don't imply that ALL elemental magic is granted by primordials.
#10
Steely_Dan
Dec 11, 2011 6:38:07 Yet the O-4th Ed Assassin is purely a Shadow power source class.
#11
IxidorRS
Dec 13, 2011 12:38:34
Shadow is just another patron now, like gods, spirits, or devils.

While primordials also make excellent patrons, I hope that they don't imply that ALL elemental magic is granted by primordials.

Kossuth has lorded over fire since the very beginning of time.
#12
Haldrik
Dec 17, 2011 16:53:31
Shadow seems parasitic to me.

Sounds about right.
#13
Haldrik
Dec 17, 2011 17:01:33 Regarding the elemental pairings, fire-earth and air-water seem a good idea for design.

The problem with earth and to some degree water is, they kinda just sit there. Kinda boring. By infusing earth with explosive fire, and water with flying air, the two sedentary elements gain a dynamic quality. That makes options more exciting - while maintaining distinctive flavor without sacrificing mythological accuracy.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Haldrik Dec 06, 2011 0:27:14	Coming soon, Heroes of the Elemental Chaos (HotEC) explores “elemental magic”. Presumably, this means the “elemental power source”. Yet a separate power source remains uncertain, the announced “elemental” classes are actually builds of current arcane and psionic classes: the Wizard (Shair), the Sorcerer (Elementalist), and the Monk (Shugenja). Therefore, like the Shadow power source, the elemental tends to avoid functioning as a fully separate power source. It wont have its own suite of classes. Other power sources will manipulate the elemental power source. For examples, the In-the-Works article previews the book as follows: The arcane “fireball spell harnesses elemental flame”. The elemental power source is a “greater power than the primal magic that controls it”. And so on. Apparently, the elemental “chaos” is inherently incapable of organizing, thus necessarily other power sources exert their “will” over it to manipulate it. As far as I can tell, the elements will organize similar to Magic The Gathering. Theres the Fire-Earth pair and the Air-Water pair. The book description says: “Masters of fire and earth. Lords of air and water.” It seems to me, the description is precisely correct: fire and earth are one category, and air and water are an other category. The illustration for the new class builds (from the artists blog) convinces me: The Elementalist Sorcerer seems clearly a “master of fire and earth”, while the Shugenja Monk and the Shair Wizard seem clearly “lords of air and water”. Meanwhile the book cover appears to be a fire-earth character, tho Im unsure of which class. So, Fire-Earth and Air-Water, are the two mystic elemental paths.
#2 incenjucar Dec 06, 2011 1:45:48	That is almost certainly just a poetic device. Certainly, those combinations work very well together, and they may even focus on them, but pure-elemental elementals and 3+ element elementals are pretty deeply ingrained in 4E as well as past editions.
#3 Shroomy Dec 06, 2011 10:16:34	Just as the Elemental Chaos provides the building blocks for reality, it appears that it also provides them for magic of all sorts. Kind of a neat idea if you think about it.
#4 Janx_14 Dec 06, 2011 15:14:04	Though I'm kind of curious why fireball doesn't have the Elemental keyword given that description.
#5 Marandahir Dec 06, 2011 19:43:51	It's pretty cool to me how Elemental and Shadow are both additive sources, and yet they are basically antitheses: Shadow is what is there in the spaces between, cast as a dark, well, shadow, by the other power sources. Elemental, on the other hand, is the fundamental building blocks beneath the other power sources. Shadow is the lack of other magics, Elemental is fundamental to all other magics.
#6 Janx_14 Dec 06, 2011 21:45:41	Considering that shadow latches on to other power sources, I wouldn't call it a "lack" of other magics.
#7 Aetharion Dec 07, 2011 4:33:48	Considering that shadow latches on to other power sources, I wouldn't call it a "lack" of other magics. It seems rather like a remnant or reflection, but a reflection taken to the extreme that has gained separate existence.
#8 Shroomy Dec 07, 2011 10:21:39	Shadow seems parasitic to me.
#9 incenjucar Dec 07, 2011 10:44:55	Shadow is just another patron now, like gods, spirits, or devils. While primordials also make excellent patrons, I hope that they don't imply that ALL elemental magic is granted by primordials.
#10 Steely_Dan Dec 11, 2011 6:38:07	Yet the O-4th Ed Assassin is purely a Shadow power source class.
#11 IxidorRS Dec 13, 2011 12:38:34	Shadow is just another patron now, like gods, spirits, or devils. While primordials also make excellent patrons, I hope that they don't imply that ALL elemental magic is granted by primordials. Kossuth has lorded over fire since the very beginning of time.
#12 Haldrik Dec 17, 2011 16:53:31	Shadow seems parasitic to me. Sounds about right.
#13 Haldrik Dec 17, 2011 17:01:33	Regarding the elemental pairings, fire-earth and air-water seem a good idea for design. The problem with earth and to some degree water is, they kinda just sit there. Kinda boring. By infusing earth with explosive fire, and water with flying air, the two sedentary elements gain a dynamic quality. That makes options more exciting - while maintaining distinctive flavor without sacrificing mythological accuracy.