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| #1blueznlJul 19, 2010 12:06:23 | I feel somewhat confused about the 'Essentials' line, as there seem to be four interpretations of its arrival... Flavours... 1. It's 4.5... I do hope not! For all the obvious reasons :-) but mostly because I just bought the 4e PHB, PHB2, MM and DMG :-) 2. It's a low cost edition featuring all the required rules. Now that would be interesting, especially if it would feature all the rules updates. It's a bit silly (for players) to bring PHB1/2/3 to a game, because a multiclassing fighter / mage gnome requires all three books... But it probably will not happen. 3. It's just the basic rules, with more x / y / z (take your pick, but classes, races, feats, and spells are the likely fare)... Well, we've all seen the onslaught of good and not so good d20 material, so I cannot feel too excited about that. 4. It's an introduction package, featuring some of the above. Now THAT would be interesting! Your basic intro package... One of the things that always interested me is the way 'introduction' packages were handled. I personally think that, except perhaps for the 'Fast Play' products of ages gone, they were not the most incredible products I've ever encountered. Now assuming it's an introduction package, allowing people to start using the game, it should explain all the basic rules, add one or two scenarios and dice, and done. Or should it? I think not. Well, I hope not :-) I'd rather see a GOOD introduction package as a part of the deal. For example, how would an introduction adventure be, that starts with only a few abilities, a few checks, very simple characters. Then, each chapter, as the adventure progresses, it adds another layer of complexity to the mix. Such a book would take newcomers by the hand, and add a little extra on every page. Once the book is done, the player is a well versed D&D player. Hmmm. That doesn't even have to be a box or an 'essential' product. Well, I'll always be willing to take some credit :-) |
| #2GhostStepperJul 19, 2010 12:15:24 | According to the preview article: The Dungeons & Dragons Essentials products are fully compatible with the rest of the Dungeons & Dragons roleplaying game. The rules of the game are the same as those featured in the Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide. So you really shouldn't worry that you just bought the PHB, DMG, or any other book currently out. All the essentials books really are are books full of new options. |
| #3blueznlJul 19, 2010 15:05:27 | Somehow I'm not entirely convinced. If they're just about new options, then it wouldn't make much sense to call them 'essential' now would it? :-) Seriously though, sitting in the car driving back home, such an introduction handbook would make sense, wouldn't it? I envision it as a book with a few sections: I. Introduction II. Solo adventure - zero to hero - introducing rules step by step III. Multi player adventure - zero to hero - introducing rules and team play step by step IV. Solo adventure - low level full rules set V. Multi player - low level full rules set I can envision such a book for each class, or building one book with chapters for each class. If multiple books, then who would mind if they have some elements reused, as long as the adventures are all different? |
| #4migoJul 20, 2010 16:28:27 | In all likelihood the Red Box D&D Fantasy RPG set will be the same as the Red Box BD&D from the 80s. Unlike the other Basic D&D sets, it will actually have rules for character creation and leveling, so you can play the game completely and properly and get a feel for everything (just at levels 1-3 rather than anything higher), much in line with the free Character Builder. At $20 it's a good investment since that'll cover 6 people easily to start. The rules compendium is rather handy, as for the most part any table only needs one, unlike the way it is now where you'd need DMG1 and PHB1. Since the rules compendium has the rules, Heroes of the Fallen Lands & Forgotten Kingdoms will really be just like PHB2 and 3, only cheaper. It's not 4.5, errata takes care of that, but what isn't certain is if there will continue being errata after the line is released. I'd think basically the way it is is that existing players might want to get the Rules Compendium due to errata, but new players who don't have anything after the Rules Compendium would be fine just getting PHB2 and 3 and DMG2, but totally skipping out on PHB1 and DMG1. The two Heroes of books cover what PHB1 covered, except handle them with different builds. Your current PHB1 and DMG1 are fine, to the extent that they're mostly valid, but there's been some errata, and depending on when it was printed, you might be penciling in quite a bit. |
| #5ah_marauder_69Jul 20, 2010 17:37:26 | Just wondering - as someone who owns pretty much all the "player's" material I plan to get Heroes of the Fallen Lands & Forgotten Kingdoms. These seem like they have some updated rules for races plus new builds (as previewed) for existing classes. If I don't pick up the red box, am I missing out on any new material? |
| #6joydyheeJul 20, 2010 19:20:42 |
In all likelihood the Red Box D&D Fantasy RPG set will be the same as the Red Box BD&D from the 80s. This concept is almost exactly like the basic line from the 80's. Taking you from levels 1-36, it progressed from Basic (red box) which was introductory, to Expert (blue), Companion (turquoise), Master (black), and, optionally, Immortal (gold). There were also offshoots (Hollow World) and rules conversions at almost each step to convert your PC to Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (1E/2E). Eventually they came out with the Rules Cyclopedia, which had most of the rules in hardcover, but definitely (for me), lost the flavor of the boxes. |
| #7melloredJul 20, 2010 20:23:26 | It's not 4.5, errata takes care of that, but what isn't certain is if there will continue being errata after the line is released. They said they where going heavy on the errata to fix it up before essentials was released, and after that they would cut back. So they'll try not to, and they seem to be getting double the playtesting as they did before as well as having alot more experince about making 4e stuff. But people make mistakes so i'm sure something will slip though. Hopefully they'll at least avoid the missing impliment keyword errors and the like. |
| #8migoJul 20, 2010 20:27:28 | Just wondering - as someone who owns pretty much all the "player's" material I plan to get Heroes of the Fallen Lands & Forgotten Kingdoms. These seem like they have some updated rules for races plus new builds (as previewed) for existing classes. If I don't pick up the red box, am I missing out on any new material? I doubt you'd miss out on anything. The only reason I'd consider getting it is as an easy way to introduce people, but even that's probably not worth it. I'd think from what's been announced the red box is only for collectors and for people who haven't played D&D before and want to try it out. |
| #9MarandahirJul 20, 2010 21:10:55 | There seems to be a bit of confusion here – that the Red Box is like a PH1, and the Heroes of the Fallen Lands and Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms are like PH2 and PH3. This is not so. Red Box is less material than in Heroes of Fallen Lands – it has the same material, minus Eladrin – and only for levels 1-2 characters (or is it 3?). In any case, they're not expansions in the sense of more classes, and the first one features mostly the same options, with the addition of Eladrin. The Red Box is a starter set. You should skip it altogether if you just want the new material. |
| #10migoJul 20, 2010 23:32:51 | I'd lean towards 1-3 being most likely. 1-2 was for the Basic D&D game, which you can get for free with Keep on the Shadowfell and the quickstart download. |
| #11blueznlJul 21, 2010 0:47:56 | For some totally illogical reason, I've always been interested in starter sets, and in fact have collected a few over the years, haven't got a clue why actually :-) Personally, I think it would be a good thing if a starter set would be done 'right', as many show simply too many problems to be used by total non-believers. (If any of the Hasbro / WOTC / TSR people reads this, they should give a starter set to a 12 year old and see if the boy / girl can make sense of it without help.) As for the introduction book, I never played D&D, but started with 2nd edition (well, actually started with _Amber_, but that's a whole different story) so I was unaware that such a similar approach had been used before. I think I've got a scan somewhere of one of the old boxes, perhaps even have a box somewhere gathering dust or I'll borrow one to have a look at it. From a first glance, there seems to be a small difference though: I envision such a book as a 'road to happiness', it's not a product to offer low level adventuring, it's a product to simplify the learning curve. I hope Marandahir is right, and that the red box is a starter box, with the first 'essentials' book being a 'compendium' of rules of sorts, even if that would invalidate my current recent purchase of the core rules books... (And if the red box is again, from a beginner point of view, a disappointment, then I hereby offer Hasbro to write a better one for them :-)) |
| #12migoJul 21, 2010 1:10:25 | I do suspect it will be a proper starter set. I've got the BECMI red box (or the books rather), and given they're with cover art trying to duplicate it, it would be silly for them not to do it the same way. |
| #13joydyheeJul 21, 2010 21:04:09 | I think if they are smart, it will definitely be similar. I started playing when I was 9, and I figured it out. The hardest part for me was pronouncing "prime-requisite." (Oh, REQuisite...not reQUISite...) |
| #14samsaelJul 23, 2010 15:47:29 | I think if they are smart, it will definitely be similar. I started playing when I was 9, and I figured it out. The hardest part for me was pronouncing "prime-requisite." (Oh, REQuisite...not reQUISite...) I remember those days. I pronounced it requazeet, and I still have a hand written character sheet for a Theef with 16 dexatree. |
| #15FrozenWastesJul 24, 2010 11:15:20 | Everything I've heard and read points to the Red Box being the spiritual successor of the original Red Box. Humans, Elves, Halfings, Dwarves (though without the demi-humans being their own class) Fighters, Magic Users, Clerics and Thievs (MUs = Wizards and Thieves = Rogues) There's even going to be a "choose your own adventure" style solo-quest. I think it's a true starter with a full a version of the rules as you need for the races, classes, monsters and adventures that come with it. It's levels 1-2, so I'm also guessing the intro adventure probably takes you to somewhere between level 2 and 3 at its conclusion. Then if you want to keep playing, the DM can grab the DM kit or the DMG1. Either a MM or the new Monster Vault. The players can grab either a PHB of choice or a Heroes of X book. Someone in the group should probably also grab a Rules Compendium. Or you could go with just the Red Box plus one person gets a DDI subscription. I hope they also manage to get just the Red Box into major toy distributors and department stores like TSR did with the original. That's how I got into D&D. My friend's mom saw it in a local department store and thought her son would like it. |
| #16HaldrikJul 24, 2010 15:54:30 | Froze: 'Fighters, Magic Users, Clerics and Thievs (MUs = Wizards and Thieves = Rogues)' Actually, `Magic Users −> Mages (Wizard subclass) `Thieves −> Thieves (Rogue subclass) |
| #17FrozenWastesJul 24, 2010 23:18:14 | Right. It's only going to have the Essentials sub-class, isn't it. Knights, Mages, Warpriests and Thieves. |
| #18tsukinousagiJul 25, 2010 8:27:33 | My only complaint with 'Essentials' is the choice of the name of the product. I don't feel they are any more essential than the real core manuals. If they are all the same rules as the core manuals, then what makes them 'essential'? Personally I think it's all about sales nothing more than about sales and basically a means to make sales. They don't seem to be getting marketed as intro 4th and that is also confusing. Because you would think 'essentials' is what you need for an intro which implies this is all you need to get started. I think the Essentials line, is getting to look more like 4th Edition lite. All the game less filling. I'm ok with that, if that is really what the objective is. I don't mind if they use some wisdom gained with full out 4th to reword and tweak a few design concepts. They say it is 'compatible' with 4th and then claim it is actually the same as 4th and yet it is clear my 4th edition manuals will not be identical, especially if I am unwilling to write all over them with updates text. I don't want people coming to the game asking can I be an Essentials fighter for instance. No, make it from one of the real 4th edition manuals thank you. If you want to play 4th edition lite, YOU buy the books and YOU run the game. I will be playing 4th edition, just 4th edition, only 4th edition. Because I bought 4th edition. |
| #19blueznlJul 25, 2010 14:15:56 | I can hardly imagine Essentials being even 'less' than 4E. Flavour wise, that is. I found 4E, the handbooks at least, outright blad. Where 3E had a somewhat 'DaVinci' presentation and style, with a dose of miniature combat thrown in, 4E seems to have stripped out almost any flavour. Okay, less rules then. That could make sense, but it would not make a great introduction package then. I think the idea behind an introduction package should be that people, after playing it, a. have had their appetite wetted, and b. know all the basic rules, enough to make things fun and to smoothly step over to the real thing. Try to build a character, for example. If you use the 4E starter set (or whatever it is called) and compare the pregenerated characters with some generated by the generator (or whatever that thing is called :-)) then compare it to your own '4E PHB conform' build characters, youl find them to differ from eachother. Now that is not what I would call a good introduction to the game... |
| #20FrozenWastesJul 26, 2010 0:47:28 | I think the new Red Box is going to get tons of nostalgia buys. People in their mid to late thirties are going to hear about it or see it, see the price tag and buy it. Some just to check it out. Some for their kids because they remember getting one when they were a child (that's how I started, my friend got it as a present from his mom when we were 6). Then say you want to play more than levels 1 and 2. The DM of the bunch might grab the DM Kit. A player might grab a "heroes of" book, another grabs a Rules Compendium and they'll go. I don't know how many are going to go from the Essentials line to the Core line without first looking at other Essentials stuff first. The Essentials line look like there going to be the go-to products before people look at the Core line and the X Power books. When a store wants to stock D&D, their distributors are going to say "Get the 10 essentials products and a couple extra red box starter sets" as a first step. The current problem with the Core line and X Power books is the "where do I go from here" factor. The answer is probably DDI subscription, but as far as physical books go, the Essentials line is going to have a very, very clear answer to the question. What I don't understand is why people are mad or afraid of this. A new red box has the potential to add so many new players to each of our local communities. New books each detailing new builds and new powers? A monster vault that comes with tokens for the monsters inside? Dungeon tiles that stay in print? A Rules Compendium with errata'd content built in? A DM's kit that has everything you need in a single box? This is awesome. |
| #21Cyber-DaveJul 26, 2010 12:05:16 | What is Essentials? It is some of all of your options, depending on how it will be recieved by the community. 1. It's 4.5... I do hope not! For all the obvious reasons :-) but mostly because I just bought the 4e PHB, PHB2, MM and DMG :-) Essentials both is and is not 4.5 edition. It is not 4.5 edition in so much as your old books will all be completely 100% compatible, and offer different information, then the essentials products. That means purchasing them was not a waste. It is 4.5 edition in so much as it will represent a new philosophy of class design that will be present in later products released post-the-essentials-line. The development team has expressed interest in deviating form the 2 at-will/4 encounter/4 daily/ and class powers only from level 1 and your paragon path choice schematic. How much they will deviate, and in what form they will deviate, will largely depend on how each of the classes from the essentials line is received by the community. 2. It's a low cost edition featuring all the required rules. Now that would be interesting, especially if it would feature all the rules updates. It's a bit silly (for players) to bring PHB1/2/3 to a game, because a multiclassing fighter / mage gnome requires all three books... But it probably will not happen. It is a low cost edition, and it does feature all the required rules, but it will not feature all the rules. If you want to play a fighter ala the mechanics of the PHB 1 you will still need the PHB 1. If you want to play a gnome you will still need the PHB 3. But you will be able to pick up the entire essentials line and play D&D without the PHB 1, 2, or 3. 3. It's just the basic rules, with more x / y / z (take your pick, but classes, races, feats, and spells are the likely fare)... Well, we've all seen the onslaught of good and not so good d20 material, so I cannot feel too excited about that. It is this as well. If you already own all the 4e books (like I do) then the essentials line will offer you nothing but more class builds, powers, and feats. Mind you, these class builds will deviate from the standard power allocation schematics, so that will be interesting... but ultimately the book will be nothing but more options at your game table. 4. It's an introduction package, featuring some of the above. It is actually an introduction package that features all of the above... |
| #22melloredJul 26, 2010 12:19:45 | It is a low cost edition, and it does feature all the required rules, but it will not feature all the rules. This is wrong. It will feature all the rules. It even put's them in 1 book rather then have them spread out over 3. What you mean is it doesn't feature all the options, So to play a warlord, or great-weapon fighter, you need PHB1 (or the compendium). |
| #23HaldrikJul 26, 2010 12:39:22 | Dave seems right enough, even if not going into detail. After all, the Essentials Compendium wont have 'all' the rules, in the sense it wont have the rules for the Gnome, Warlord, etcetera. |
| #24ascottbayJul 26, 2010 12:44:00 | Try to build a character, for example. If you use the 4E starter set (or whatever it is called) and compare the pregenerated characters with some generated by the generator (or whatever that thing is called :-)) then compare it to your own '4E PHB conform' build characters, youl find them to differ from eachother. Now that is not what I would call a good introduction to the game... They all have HP, ability scores, defenses, feats, and powers. Powers are presented the same way, with same terms for effects. The exact wording of a power may change from errata, but they follow the same layout as other powers - making them readable with the same comprehension of rules. Pre-gens from events, promotional materials, and the Encounters program use unique layouts for character information, but everything you need to know is available or at least noted and applied. The differences are cosmetic, but all the information is still right there; power blocks are consistently displayed, as well as the boxes for ability scores and defenses. These are the things needed to learn the rules for play. How you populate the character sheet is like another system, and would fall under more complex rules that I think are/should be outside the scope of a "starter set" or the new Red Box. The Heroes of... books are that first step, the PHB shows a comparatively more-complex method; X Power books change the character creation rules even more. But regardless of how you made your character (or how it was made for you) you can use that character to play the same game. |
| #25melloredJul 26, 2010 13:37:31 | Dave seems right enough, even if not going into detail. Yea, not trying to put him down, but there's alot of miss information, and i just wanted to clarify that "rules" as in flanking, cover, concealment, burst sizes, to-hit, insubstantial, ect will all be there, and it will be the same (+ errata) as those in the PHB/DMG/MM. People will take any opertunity to prove their point. |
| #26ranadielJul 26, 2010 13:57:14 | Dave seems right enough, even if not going into detail. To be picky, neither gnomes or warlords are classified as rules. They are classified as "rule elements." The online compendium has all the rule elements in it. The Rules Compendium book will have all the rules in it. |
| #27AvonRekaesJul 26, 2010 14:38:01 | My only complaint with 'Essentials' is the choice of the name of the product. "Compatable" is not synonymous with "identical". Compatable doesn't mean it's exactly the same as your hardcover manuals. It does not promise to be the same. It promises to work with the hardcovers. That's what "compatable" means. Therefore your stance that a character built with Essentials rules would not be allowed into a "normal" 4e game is arbitrary. It would be the same as banning everything in the PHB3. Both PHB3 and Essentials showcases new design philosophies (PHB3 races all have a variable stat, and psionic classes have completely different power progression thanks to power points. That's entirely new design), but you don't immediately havea kneejerk reaction to that, do you? You say all you object to is the name, and that I can see. Labling them as "Essential" is just a marketing word, so that new players know to start there, while hinting that older players need it to. It's not claiming that the character options in it are any more important or more or less powerful than the ones in the PHB1, 2, or 3. However, if all you objected to was the name, why are you banning me (hypothetically) from playing my Essentials-built Elven Knight in a party with a Swarm Druid from Primal Power, an Avenger from PHB2, and an Ardent from PHB3? You allowed all the other optional 4e character options, why not my Essentials character that is fully compatable with (works under the same edition-wide rules and system math as) the other characters? Is it because the Essentials Knight doesn't have the same at-will/encounter/daily set up as the "regular" figher builds? That shouldn't matter, because even though the Knight's powers and features are presented differently, it's compatable with the same math that's the basis for the at-will/encounter/daily system. It's the same thing as the Psionic classes from PHB3. Power Points and Augmentable Powers work a little differently than the at-will/encounter/daily system, but it's more or less equivalent to it. You don't need to force an "all-psionics" party in order to use the Power Points classes. They work just fine next to the at-will/encounter/daily classes. Just like the Knight will work just fine next to the at-will/encounter/daily classes and the Power Point classe, and all the other variations we'll see in the Essentials line. |
| #28Tony_VargasJul 26, 2010 17:10:11 | My only complaint with 'Essentials' is the choice of the name of the product. It's 'essential' to WotC that they sell. ;) |
| #29Cyber-DaveJul 26, 2010 21:08:39 | It is a low cost edition, and it does feature all the required rules, but it will not feature all the rules. I am not interested in having a semantic argument over whether something should be called an "option" or a "rule." According to basic English, both the abilities of the warlord class and the ability to flank a foe are rules. One rule is required to play the game. The other rule is not. If you are interested in calling the required rules rules, and the optional rules options, I certainly see how that terminology could avoid confusion. It does not, however, change my point. The person wrote: 2. It's a low cost edition featuring all the required rules. Now that would be interesting, especially if it would feature all the rules updates. It's a bit silly (for players) to bring PHB1/2/3 to a game, because a multiclassing fighter / mage gnome requires all three books... But it probably will not happen. He clearly meant "all the rules updates" to include rules for classes and races. As such, I wrote the following: It is a low cost edition, and it does feature all the required rules, but it will not feature all the rules. If you want to play a fighter ala the mechanics of the PHB 1 you will still need the PHB 1. If you want to play a gnome you will still need the PHB 3. But you will be able to pick up the entire essentials line and play D&D without the PHB 1, 2, or 3. In other words, it will have all the rules for things like flanking. It will not have all the rules for all of the abilities that every class and race has. In fact, as far as I understand it, at the very least the books will only provide its reader with NEW rules in relation to the classes it provides. Old rules, such as the rules for playing fighters as presented in the PHB 1, will not be present. Neither, I believe they said, will gnomes. Though, I could wrong about that. |
| #30Cyber-DaveJul 26, 2010 21:13:03 | Dave seems right enough, even if not going into detail. Would you care to cite where anything, anywhere, has classified some of the D&D rules as "rule elements" and others as "rules." Because, according to basic english, both the rules for playing races, classes, or just interacting with the world around you, are classified as rules. Now, certain games or players might further classify some rules as X (lets say rules) and other rules as Y (lets say options, or rule elements), but I have never seen anyone, anywhere, use the term "rule elements" until you. That doesn't mean they haven't! But I have not seen anyone until you use that classification. So, I am intrested, does that classification exist in any published WotC product? |
| #31ascottbayJul 27, 2010 0:05:38 | My only complaint with 'Essentials' is the choice of the name of the product. Someone interested in D&D but with no idea how it works will be able to easily identify a group of useful products. Someone who's just starting up doesn't need to figure out if the DMG2 is like a more up-to-date DMG or if it's a distinct product, since the Dungeon Master's Kit is the essential product (with additional materials, too). When facing multiple Monster Manuals and monster-filled splat books, the Monster Vault promises an essential selection (and tokens, and adventures). The Rules Compendium, hopefully, will be organized as an efficient reference (since the original sources are structured as guides). They aren't going to be all that important to us, who already know how D&D works, although we're encouraged to mine them for their new content. Not everyone gets mentored into the game, and we've all seen the "how do I start playing?" threads. It seems obvious now, after playing for years, that players need the PHB, and the Dungeon Master should probably get the DMG and MM; but it's not so obvious to newcomers. And I like this Essentials product line more than simply changing the appearance of the PHB/DMG/MM so that they stand out as the "core" - such an action would likely suffer greater backlash while making a less significant impact on potential customers. |
| #32blueznlJul 27, 2010 3:12:50 | If the essentials line would include all errata, wouldn't it be nice if Hasbro / WOTC / TSR (to me that's the same thing, my apologies for that, in fact to me it's still TSR, but then again I'm an old grumpy fatbeard :-))... Restart. Wouldn't it be nice to see a minor product like a box of self adhesive labels / stickers, or perhaps a nicely formatted PDF that could verbatim be printed on an 'Avery' label sheet or something similar, so that we all could update our DMG / PHB / MM / xxx to correct errata in the PHB? It's better than penciling it in... Heh. A lot of people would buy the essentials line if it would include suck a sticker sheet :-) |
| #33Tony_VargasJul 27, 2010 3:38:00 | Y'know, that occurred to me, too. But, at this point, the errata are just too extensive even for that option. It's past time for new printings with errata. And, compared to re-buying several books, just picking up the Essentials Compendium doesn't seem so bad. |
| #34melloredJul 27, 2010 8:09:19 | It is a low cost edition, and it does feature all the required rules, but it will not feature all the rules. I wasn't trying to change you point, i was agreeing with it. I should of said "clairify" instead of "wrong". My apology. |
| #35migoJul 27, 2010 10:52:05 | Y'know, that occurred to me, too. But, at this point, the errata are just too extensive even for that option. It's past time for new printings with errata. And, compared to re-buying several books, just picking up the Essentials Compendium doesn't seem so bad. How much errata is there that you couldn't just paperclip in extra pages? Is it so many pages the book would bulge? |
| #36MockJul 27, 2010 10:57:30 | Y'know, that occurred to me, too. But, at this point, the errata are just too extensive even for that option. It's past time for new printings with errata. And, compared to re-buying several books, just picking up the Essentials Compendium doesn't seem so bad. The compiled rules update is a 115-page PDF. Note that this is across all books; the errata for the PHB 1 & 2, DMG 1 & 2, and MM 1 & 2 are about 40 pages total. |
| #37melloredJul 27, 2010 11:29:27 | Y'know, that occurred to me, too. But, at this point, the errata are just too extensive even for that option. It's past time for new printings with errata. And, compared to re-buying several books, just picking up the Essentials Compendium doesn't seem so bad. That's also in the expanded format, where they reprint every power they errated instead of just saying "add the impliment keyword to X". There's also a large amount of white space. Really a better questions would be How many powers have been errated? How many items have been errated? How many feats have been errated? How many rules have been errated? |
| #38HaldrikJul 27, 2010 12:04:28 | And they explain why they errataed it, which also adds to the amount of text. The percentage that is actually errata is much less. |
| #39MockJul 27, 2010 12:36:01 | Fair enough, good point that there's extra verbiage. So, I had a few minutes free and found, for the first 3 books (PHB, DMG, MM): Changes to: Rules: 86 Powers: 85 Feats: 9 Items: 3 Rituals: 1 Monsters: 46 Disclaimer: paragon path features ended up in Powers; and I may have miscounted here and there by a one or two. |
| #40melloredJul 27, 2010 12:50:31 | Fair enough, good point that there's extra verbiage. So, I had a few minutes free and found, for the first 3 books (PHB, DMG, MM): For reference the compendium list (source, PHB) Rules: ??? = ??? Powers: 85/707 = 12% Feats: 9/2589 = 5.5% Items: 3/720 = .4% Rituals: 1/49 = 2% Monsters (MM) = 46/488 = 9% Total: 144/4553 = 3% |
| #41MockJul 27, 2010 13:05:14 | Actually, I did the whole thing (lunch hour + compulsive streak). First, I am not saying that "most of the game has been errata'd" or anything like that. I never said that, and I don't want to get in an argument about that because that's not what I think. There are (and mellored read my mind about comparing # of changes to total elements in the compendium): 123 Rules changes - no way to tell percentage, but pretty low given how much werds there are in the books 265 power changes - 4% 112 feat changes - 4% 131 item changes - 1% 102 monster changes - 2.5% in the entire update document, accounting for +/- a few in each. That's 610 rules element changes out of 21,089 rules elements, which is just under 3%. I think that is an amazingly low amount of errata. Astonishingly low (actually, I think the designers deserve a huge thank you for making a game that solid). In absolute terms, though, pasting in stickers/post-its to cover these might be a tedious job and make your books bulge a bit. So I just counted all those things to answer the question, "would it be a lot to paste into your books?" |
| #42melloredJul 27, 2010 14:00:01 | I started a new thread so more people would see your counting. |
| #43ascottbayJul 27, 2010 14:04:48 | Keep in mind that anything that gets printed in large quantities needs to allow a certain margin for misalignment. Can labels really be made to go over pages in the books? I imagine they'd need to be applied with perfect precision or they'd very often spill over into another column or the next paragraph. Also, would custom-cut adhesive label packs be cheaper than a $13 Amazon/$20 brick-and-mortar paperback? The Rules Compendium is probably more bang for the buck, and useful to both printed-errata-seekers and new customers. Win/win for both Wizards and the customers. |
| #44melloredJul 27, 2010 14:08:22 | Keep in mind that anything that gets printed in large quantities needs to allow a certain margin for misalignment. Can labels really be made to go over pages in the books? I imagine they'd need to be applied with perfect precision or they'd very often spill over into another column or the next paragraph. I actually do think they size them appropriately for cut and paste (the powers anyways). That doesn't always mean they fit however, since some may be larger then what's in the book, but it probably works most of the time. |
| #45blueznlJul 27, 2010 15:03:05 | Yeah, what the books would need for such a thing to work is a little more whitespace on one side of the page. But then again, that would reduce content, so let's hope no-one is actually reading this and decides to reduce the amount of content in the essentials line, just 'because our customers demanded so' :-) |