That being said, the line has a little bit of an unfinished feel. I don't want it to become bloated with a vast amount of content (frankly, I think the game is better off being smaller and self-contained. Plus I think it needs to stick to classic rpg archetypes) but it just needs a little bit more content. In that vein, I'm making an essentials wishlist Of the things I think the system needs to be better fleshed out. Please feel free to add to it. What do you think essentials needs to be a fleshed out 'classic rpg' style game?
(note: If you want to debate someone's suggestion, please go ahead, but if you want to baw about how you hate essentials, please go elsewhere).
Classes:
-Minstrel- (Either rogue or bard subclass. Arcane and martial leader) Bards are a pretty classic RPG trope, and essentials would really benefit from a toned-down version of the class. namely, I'd like a verson that doesn't insult their enemies to death or sing lightning. I'd sort of like to see this class as a companion to the hunter, who relies primarily on martial abilities, but also makes use of magical utility powers. For example, I'd give them a number of at-will rogue tricks to scamper about the battlefield or hamper foes (stunning insult, confusing speech), a few wizard-like abilities like whispering wind, and, of course, utilities like healing word to bolster and heal the party. Really, in the essentials format, a toned-down bard kinda writes itself.
-Shapeshifter- (Druid subclass. Primal defender) Why why why doesn't this exist? This old RPG trope belongs in essentials, and it's nothing like anything that already exists. We've learned from both 3rd and 4th edition that people like shapeshifting, but it doesn't work as an add-in for another class (either overpowering the class or being heavily nerfed). This would be easy enough to make. Grant it a handful of simple at-will forms with basic attacks (bear, wolf, hawk), a handful of neat encounter forms with at-will powers (Displacer beast, umber hulk), and of course a couple of dramatic daily forms with encounter powers (Dragon, giant).
Weapon styles: nobody wants this to get too obscure. But some of these are pretty basic.
-Maul
-handaxe
-flail
-Archery
-Thrown
-Spear
Pacts: Keeping with the tradition of evil forces a literary witch migh consort with:
-shade/ghost-Completely thematic, and won't step on a wizards toes. Icy/necrotic blades, lifedraining attacks, and wraith/ghost warlock's allies
-Dragon-fits with lawful evil dragons. Electric or poison sword and drake warlock's allies.
-Aberration-This may be reduntant with starpact, but I can see a warlock forging a strange magical bond with a beholder and/or an illithid
Schools:
-Necromancy-man I hope HOS is essentials compatible
-Transmutation-NPCs can do this but not PCs? Not cool, man.
-Conjuration-Summoning may need to be revamped for essentials
Domains: I realize this could get overwhelming, so what big forces have peopel worshipped that aren't represented? (Also avoiding redundancies)
-Sea-
-Moon-
-Death-
-Love/Hate-(don't underestimate this one, it has a lot of potential)
-War-
Seasons:
-Autum-Scythe druid with a boar companion? Maybe an owl? Or a hound?
-Winter-Spear druid with a leopard companion.
That's all I've got, but I'm convinced we could get another book or two without seeing any 'out there' or redundant classes.
My Essentials wish list is pretty short: Ditch the whole concept.
Wow, you win the internet. You're so smart with your wit...and...ya know....witticism.
I would like to see a rogue defender "swashbuckler" because dex secondary fighter doesn't cut it skill wise or fluff wise.
I would also like to see a wizard leader "transmutation" school to bring back the old wizard buffs and polymorphs.
The bard concept in the op is a cool one I hadn't even thought of.
And a martial/psionic monk would be cool, could even take advantage of the staff expertise feat special abilities which do less than nothing for the phb3 monk lol.
Wow, you win the internet. You're so smart with your wit...and...ya know....witticism.
And you just won an Internet Oscar for best use of meme ever. *checks the label* Sorry I meant Internet Razzie.
Wow, you win the internet. You're so smart with your wit...and...ya know....witticism.
And you just won an Internet Oscar for best use of meme ever. *checks the label* Sorry I meant Internet Razzie.
Hey hey hey. No reason I couldn't have won both. Or a golden globe...those don't seem so hard to win...
Classes: Builds:
-Minstrel-
-Shapeshifter-
Weapon styles: nobody wants this to get too obscure. But some of these are pretty basic.
-Maul
-handaxe
-flail
-Archery
-Thrown
-Spear
Pacts: Builds:
-shade/ghost-
-Dragon-fits with lawful evil dragons. Electric or poison sword and drake warlock's allies.
-Aberration-
Schools: Builds:
-Necromancy-man I hope HOS is essentials compatible ??? It is all compatible with 4th edition.
-Transmutation- I would like this, but in a class.
-Conjuration- an addition mage build with new powers that repeat what has already been done.
I fixed a few mistakes there. I would like to see the Transmuter class, but it most likely will be a build at some point, with that pesky Mage tag.
You didn't fix anything. His post was fine the way it was, before you touched it. If anything, you muddled up what was perfectly clear to begin with...
yeah, no kidding
I think essentials is great for streching the boundaries. I like the idea of dual power source classes and sub classes with different roles to that of their parent class. I would like to see a rogue defender "swashbuckler" because dex secondary fighter doesn't cut it skill wise or fluff wise. I would also like to see a wizard leader "transmutation" school to bring back the old wizard buffs and polymorphs. The bard concept in the op is a cool one I hadn't even thought of. And a martial/psionic monk would be cool, could even take advantage of the staff expertise feat special abilities which do less than nothing for the phb3 monk lol.
Lol... I was trying to come up with a list of new Essentials-style sub-classes and builds that I'd like to see... and one of them was a Rogue Defender called the Swashbuckler. "Great minds and all" I guess.
Some of the Possibilities I've come up with for my list:
Assassin sub-classes
Ghostwalker - Striker / Psionic & Shadow / Melee - martial artist that combines the story fluff of the 3rd edition Ghostwalker prestige class with the 4th edition Monk paragon path
Shadowcaster - Controller / Shadow / Ranged - combines stuff from the pre-Essentials Assassin (like the Inescapable Blade and Executioner's Noose) with stuff from the 3rd edition Shadowcaster.
Cleric sub-classes
Avenger - Striker / Divine / Melee - conversion into new format; Builds = Divine Oaths... example Oaths (Hammer of Judgement / Moradin, Zealous Assassin / Sehanine, Radiant Fist / Ioun, Keepers of Forbidden Lore / Vecna)
Druid sub-classes
Warden - Defender / Primal / Melee - conversion into new format
Predator - Striker / Primal / Melee - mostly uses Wild Shape and Beast keyword powers
Fighter sub-classes
Grenadier - Controller / Martial / Ranged - ranged attacks and Alchemical explosives for Daily powers (similar to the Executioner's poisons)
Officer or Marshal - Leader / Martial / Melee or Ranged - conversion of the Warlord into the new format with updates/revisions (including getting rid of the god-awful Warlord name and replacing it with a name that keeps the military fluff of the Fighter without being dumb)
Ardent - Leader / Martial & Psionic / Melee - conversion into new format; either a seperate sub-class or a Build for the Officer (similar to the Sword Guard of Astrazalian build for the Knight)
Battlemind - Defender / Martial & Psionic / Melee - conversion into new format; either a seperate sub-class or a Build for the Knight
Rogue sub-classes
Swashbuckler - Defender / Martial / Melee - light weapons (like rapier), fancy footwork, and possibly crossbow use (for a Musketeer kind of thing)
Sorcerer - people with innate magical power that comes from being descended from a magical being... sub-classes / Builds would be the different Bloodlines
Dragon Heir - Elemental / Striker / Melee & Blasts - for Dragonborn, Kobolds, and people descended from Dragons
Immortal Soul - Divine / Striker / Melee & Bursts - for Deva, Aasimar (Deva Bloodline), and people desceded from angels, gods, and the like
Warlock - new Pacts for the Hexblade and for the new Warlock coming in "Heroes of Shadow" which will hopefully be a ranged version for the people who prefer the old one
Dragon Pact
Couatl Pact
Shadow Pact - Pact with the "Dark Powers of the Shadowfell" (the mysterious powers who control the Mists, Domains of Dread, and such)... I'm hoping that something like this will be in "Heroes of Shadow"
Wizard subclasses - I imagine this'll be the one that gets me the most flak... but keep in mind that the primary story fluff for the Wizard is that they are the "ultimate" spellcasters who come upon their magical abilities through long study, research, and practice, and they often see their craft as both an art and a science
Artificer - Arcane / Leader / Melee or Ranged - conversion into new format
Bard - Arcane or Martial & Arcane / Leader / Melee or Ranged - conversion into new format
Invoker - Divine / Controller (or maybe Striker / Ranged - conversion into new format
Psion - Psionic / Controller / Ranged - conversion into new format
I like your ideas, and I hope we see them too. Ignore the people who dislike Essentials and feel the need to post stupid hateful comments. Seriously, who does that? Can you imagine something like that happening in real life? You are sitting with your friends at Barnes and Noble talking about something you really like. Then some random dude walks over, says, "I hate [insert topic here]," and walks off. Who does that?
I unfortunately haven't gotten to play with the Essentials classes yet (but I guess its not a bad thing, as it is because my current campaign is still going strong, but if we start a new one I think people will try them), but here are some other things I'd like:
Cleric: more domains, just like you. I think Dragon Mag is the perfect place to introduce them, unless book sales go back up.
Thief: weapon tricks would be nice. I don't see the Fighter getting special stuff with Rogue weapons, so they wouldn't be stepping on any toes. Also an alternative encounter power from Backstab, but I don't have any ideas.
Fighter: more specific weapon powers, and alternate encounter powers from Power Strike.
Mage: abjuration would be cool, for a wizard that has leader as a secondary role. Divination would also be fun.
Druid: after introducing the remaining seasons, they could do terrain based druids, like forest and mountain.
My Essentials wish list is pretty short: Ditch the whole concept.
Wow, you win the internet. You're so smart with your wit...and...ya know....witticism.
They are not alone. 2010 would have been better with no Essentials and a few more hardcovers worth getting.
I'd have been happier if they had released a hardcover titled 'So you want to play D&D but are not bright enough to read the actual Players Handbook', and I would have made it mostly pictures and written like a childrens story book.
Ok I might not have added the last part "but are not bright enough to read the actual Players Handbook".
Monster Vault would have been better served by a Hardcover titled Best of the Monster Manual and they could have just sold tokens as tokens in sets called Monster Manual 1 2 and 3.
My Essentials wish list is pretty short: Ditch the whole concept.
Wow, you win the internet. You're so smart with your wit...and...ya know....witticism.
They are not alone. 2010 would have been better with no Essentials and a few more hardcovers worth getting.
I'd have been happier if they had released a hardcover titled 'So you want to play D&D but are not bright enough to read the actual Players Handbook', and I would have made it mostly pictures and written like a childrens story book.
Ok I might not have added the last part "but are not bright enough to read the actual Players Handbook".
Monster Vault would have been better served by a Hardcover titled Best of the Monster Manual and they could have just sold tokens as tokens in sets called Monster Manual 1 2 and 3.
wow... just wow
So according to you a person is mentally deficient if they like a product you don't. Well I've been both playing and DM'ing the game since back in AD&D 2nd edition, and I personally feel that the Essentials products are a definate evolution of the game and a step in the right direction. Does that mean that I should call you "retarded" or some-such thing because you prefer the pre-Essentials books? No, of course not... that would be incredibly rude and arrogant of me.
It's just personal preference people... do we really have to act like jerks just because it's an internet forum?
Again, lets think of this in a real life situation. You are gathered with your friends in a public park, talking about football. Some guy walks up to you, says, "Football is played by people who are too dumb to understand soccer," and walks off. Who does that?
So...to the rest of the rational minded nice people reading this forum: lets ignore the jerks. Keep posting with your thoughts on other people's ideas for future Essentials material as well as your own ideas.
For the Mage, more elemental schools like the Pyromancer, such as Electromancy and Cryomancy. I would also like to see a full-fledged Transmutation school, as well as Conjuration/Summoning (hopefully with Summons that don't suck). Also, more powers for the existing schools (Illusion has like five times as much as the rest because its Keyword already existing). Tag many of the existing powers with Evocation or Enchantment as appropriate. I do agree that the Artificer might work as a subclass of the Wizard rather than its own class, but then again, so could the Swordmage.
For the Warpriest, more domains, such as Air, Fire, Water, Trickery, and the like. Maybe a second form of the Cleric that is a Controller or something. Probably not striker, since we have, roughly, a gazillion of them.
I would like more Weapon Specializations for the Knight and Slayer, like Spear or Polearm specialties. Heck, maybe even a Bow specialty, because that would be pretty sweet too. You know, they should have a specialty for every weapon group.
I don't know what they need to add for the rogue since it is awesome as is.
More Virtues for the Paladin would be good.
The Druid needs the Autumn and Winter seasons. Maybe a Tiger or something for Autumn and a Badger or Wolverine for Winter.
Rangers are pretty much good as is.
The Hexblade could use the Dark, Vestige, and Sorcerer-King Pacts all getting Hexblade forms.
And that is just options for existing classes!
I want to see an Essentials Artificer, Avenger, Bard, Swordmage, Warlord, Monk(basic attack spamming! Especially since Stances really fits well), and Warden.
They need to give the rest of races variable Ability Scores. I want my Int Con/Cha Gnome!
On the order of what they are going to do with the Neverwinter Campaign Setting, I would like to see a Stormreach Campaign Setting for Eberron (which would be a really cool place to have the Essentials Artificer in the same way the Essentials Swordmage (Bladesinger) is likely in the NWCS).
I also want a Dragonlance Campaign Setting built with Essentials in mind.
My Essentials wish list is pretty short: Ditch the whole concept.
Wow, you win the internet. You're so smart with your wit...and...ya know....witticism.
They are not alone. 2010 would have been better with no Essentials and a few more hardcovers worth getting.
I'd have been happier if they had released a hardcover titled 'So you want to play D&D but are not bright enough to read the actual Players Handbook', and I would have made it mostly pictures and written like a childrens story book.
Ok I might not have added the last part "but are not bright enough to read the actual Players Handbook".
Monster Vault would have been better served by a Hardcover titled Best of the Monster Manual and they could have just sold tokens as tokens in sets called Monster Manual 1 2 and 3.
I think they are talking about the idea that Essentials was meant for beginners or as an easy entry point to D&D. The problem is there was already two "Dummies" books out, one on being a DM, the other on being a player. So WotC excuse sounds pretty lame.
What I would like to see with Essentials would be a way to differentiate your characters at each level. Example: Slayers get a +1 to attack or damage at certain levels. How bout the option to choose a power instead, or make these things "static" always on powers then have a variety of choices. I don't mind Essentials, but I think they limit choices unnecessarily. If they don't want to muddy the waters make another book called "More options for Essential characters" that has this information in it. With a big sign on the front that says "Requires Hof{L/K} to play".
I'm in total agreeance about wanting/needing more Schools of Magic for the Mage. I would also add that I feel that any School / Build they create should have a 1st level option. Unless I'm mistaken, you can take Pyromancy as your 1st level speciality, but don't actually have any power options that go along with it.
I also agree with you that we need more Domains for the Warpriests, Weapon Specializtions for the Fighter sub-classes, the other two seasons for the Sentinel, and more Pacts for Warlocks.
I also do kinda agree about the Swordmage fitting under Wizard. I original hope for them (which I don't actually see happening) was for them to be Essentials-style sub-classes that count as both Fighter and Wizard. That would allow them to create an elven Bladesinger (along with any other arcane warrior type that they could think up) that would have its own fluff, flavor, and theme while also being able to pick up Utility Powers from either class. However, I'm also ok with the idea of the Swordmage being done as Build options for the Knight and Slayer (which seems to be the way they're going with it.)