There's a lot of interest, so any chance?
Discuss.
Looking forward to the Feywild and Shadowfell books especially.
Bel
4Ed aberrations are oficially from Far Realms. Aren´t they?
My prediction for 'Manual of the Planes' slot now is for each book to focus on a new planar area, giving more and more details about it.
This prediction is indeed true for this year, as the MotP slot has been taken by a book on the Elemental Chaos.
This prediction is indeed true for this year, as the MotP slot has been taken by a book on the Elemental Chaos.
The Plane Below, correct?
So if there's a Far Realms book, I think it's imperative that it fully supports PC travel within the realm. It should also include substantial support for DMs in running the horror freakshow setting that the Far Realm seems to require, as not everyone can do that off the top of their head. I haven't read MotP, so maybe that includes a nod to Far Realm adventuring.
Actually, I reckon any such book will also include the Plane of Dreams.
Not much there.
The Plane Below, correct?
Yup.
MotP (4e) has a single page on the Far Realm, and a single page on the Plane of Dreams.
Not much there.
Interesting. It could be we'll see them get fleshed out more in MotP 2 and then get them (and other planes introduced in MotP 2) fleshed out.
I'd like to see a Far Realm book, but I have some reservations. The Far Realm appears to be a throwback to many of the planes of previous editions' cosmology, in that it's a plane you're not really meant to go to. The advance blurb for the 4e Far Realm, in Worlds and Monsters, paint it as a bizarro world that snaps the minds of anyone who visits. Which doesn't quite gel with the "Make the planes suitable for adventure!" rallying cry in the same book.
I hope the approach they take would be to simply cover the areas on the edge of the Far Realms that have been tainted by that plane's influence. As in much of the Cthulu mythos, one only saw the effects those aberrations had on the real world. One never looked past the curtain into the beyond.
The Far Realm appears to be a throwback to many of the planes of previous editions' cosmology, in that it's a plane you're not really meant to go to.
I can think of a number of older edition planescape players that would like to debate that one. Even back in 1e AD&D the outer and inner planes were far from inaccessible.
That being said I don't think WotC will pass up the opportunity to do such a book. It will allow them to do a number of things including the return of the Illithids of Thoon and some other aberrant monstrosities.
That being said I don't think WotC will pass up the opportunity to do such a book. It will allow them to do a number of things including the return of the Illithids of Thoon and some other aberrant monstrosities.
Myself, I'm expecting an Aberrations book, ala Draconomicon and Open Grave. Actually doing a Far Realms book seems unlikely, unless they're planning on making the place much more PC-friendly than it has been in the past editions. Characters devolving into insane monstrosities isn't much fun outside of Call of Cthulhu.
Heck, it's not much fun even in CoC. ;)
I can think of a number of older edition planescape players that would like to debate that one. Even back in 1e AD&D the outer and inner planes were far from inaccessible.
That being said I don't think WotC will pass up the opportunity to do such a book. It will allow them to do a number of things including the return of the Illithids of Thoon and some other aberrant monstrosities.
I was an older edition Planescape player. Some of the planes were, if not inaccessible in the absolute sense, totally impractical to visit without some form of heavy shielding (Positive/Negative Energy, much of the Abyss, Earth/Fire, and many of the paraelemental planes like Ooze and Salt). The inner planes were the main offenders, but a few of the outer planes could be nearly as uninviting, like Limbo, or the Gray Waste with its trapping effect.
But worse than that, in my opinion, were the planes that were hostile and just plain dull. Pandemonium was hostile but fun. Ooze, on the other hand, was nothing more than an endless sea of muck that you drowned in. It didn't bring much to the roleplaying table. Planes like Ooze are the ones I'm glad to see the back of.
I'd say that any elaboration on the Far Realm is likely to be part of an Aberrations book. Which I'm certain will be done one day - probably after the unannounced but virtually certain Fey book.
;)
As I understand it, many of the WotC people are fans of Lovecraft and his Mythos, so I really can't see them saying 'no' to doing at least one book in their own version if it.
The Far Realm isn't really a place to go, it's a place to be from.
Agreed. It is by definition a place beyond the reality of the other planes. A place of corruption and madness. I feel that the Far Realm being inaccessible by PC's would not be unreasonable. This would be especially meaningful in one's campaign if the Far Realm was just a "crutch" plane used by scholars to discribe where these crazy creatures came from-- Maybe no Far Realm actually exists.
Shifting, Unconstant, a few locales.
I would want 30% Player Resource, 50% Abberrations, 20% Locations.
That being said, i really don't see anything much being done for it. I agree there will likely be an aberrations book, but the extreme alienness of the far realm's denizens make it an unlikely adventure spot.
Consider that there will likely be nothing there for the characters. No atmosphere they can breathe w/o assistance; no food that isn't likely to kill or transform them; no npcs that are sane enough to deal with; and the omnipresent threat of tentacled horrors feasting on their flesh. I'll confess much of this isn't a significant departure from the abyss of olden days, but at least demons had uses for adventurers other than as food (most of the time).
If there are any PC friendly locations, that aren't filled with gibbering madmen, they are likely to owe their existence to some kind of non-aberrant higher power.
Ideas, ressources, monsters, even items for adventures under the sign of the Far Realm, for all three tier, would make a great book.
Altough 'Influence of the Far Realm' or 'On the Edge of Madness' or some other title of a book about locations that were touched and warped by the Far Realm, like Aboleth and Illithids' strongholds and stuff would be pretty cool.
Ideas, ressources, monsters, even items for adventures under the sign of the Far Realm, for all three tier, would make a great book.
I completely agree. Could even go with a feat, like the spellplagued feat from 4e FR (an idea i've been toying with). For now my lock char uses madness and cosmetic effects (claw-like finger nails and a tentacle-like tongue) to show far realm influence. The cosmetic effects are based on the images of the foulspawn in the MM.
I completely agree. Could even go with a feat, like the spellplagued feat from 4e FR (an idea i've been toying with). For now my lock char uses madness and cosmetic effects (claw-like finger nails and a tentacle-like tongue) to show far realm influence. The cosmetic effects are based on the images of the foulspawn in the MM.
Nice idea...something like someone who got saved before they were fully turned into foulspawn or other aberations or simply granted these 'cursed bonuses' by their unknown patrons.
I would call it 'Far Touched' myself :p
The powers should synergize well with Starlocks (though not in a 'crazy over powered' way so as not to make it too common amongst starlocks).
Other option is a "tainted demiplane of madness/nightmares" by Far Realm that can be explored by heroes.
Do you rebember the neh-thalggu or brain collector? Does anybody miss the cult of thoon (MM 5) or the zerns and creatures (MM 4), the etherngaund and kaortis (Fiend Folio), the half-daelkyrs (magic of eberron, why not?Shifters and warforged are general PC races), fhaerimm, sharns and malaugrym (forgoten realms) and the tsochars (lords of madness).
I wish the return of Chut... the brainstealer dragon (Dragon magazine 337)!!!.
Nice idea...something like someone who got saved before they were fully turned into foulspawn or other aberations or simply granted these 'cursed bonuses' by their unknown patrons.
I would call it 'Far Touched' myself :p
The powers should synergize well with Starlocks (though not in a 'crazy over powered' way so as not to make it too common amongst starlocks).
Like the feat name; and i can definitely see it achieving an "out-of-the-box, paradigm-shifting, synergistic symbyosis" with star locks. [smacks self] Woo! Too much 1980s business speak.
I also had a notion that it might lower the DCs of social skill challenges against foulspawn, or at least start them out as being less hostile to the character. I think this would be more a matter of DM's judgement than actual feat mechanics.
For those who want more info, my suggestions are:
Call of Cthulu source materials AND Warhammer Daemons of Chaos (the fantasy one)...
The realm of chaos in warhammer, although it's just created via mortal emotions, is described in a somewhat fashion I can see within the far realm BUT not as extreme. The far realm would be far worse.
This is where I see a problem.
The far realm is described as being beyond what anything in the multiverse (outside of the far realmm which is it's own dimension) can describe. The fact that we want designers to give us a book on it, means they can never do that justice since by writign stuff down, they have thought of some way to describe it, but the material says it'sbeyond that?
heehWhat I have done...in the adventure "Firestorm Peak" they have mushrooms that are poisonous to stuff from the far realm. We did some house rules and used that to help protect the body if they entered the gate to the far realm (players never did), but that would make the mushrooms useful, and allow them to do some adventuring in the far realm for a short time. Of course, the horror tables from ravenloft we use for insanity though, would overcome them much sooner than anything else along with the random reality bending tables we have.
Overall, players loved it though. it was unique :D
Sanjay
From reading this post, I just had the coolest idea of what the Far Realm is. It's where Planes go to die. The Abberations are like a cancer slowly destorying old dead worlds, consuming them in a slow digestion precess into raw untamed Residium and Elemental muck. :D
That's very clever. The toxic environment could even be digestive gasses and juices from the immense abberations that dwell there (the giant ones described in the MoP).
*shivers*
Such a book should have delves in abberant filled environement for various level so you can start fighting those guys in mid-heroic!
Being so gigantic and powerful they EAT ENTIRE PLANES FOR SNACK!!!
*shivers*
Such a book should have delves in abberant filled environement for various level so you can start fighting to guys in mid-heroic!
Agreed.
I would also like to see a few aberrant adventure hooks. Like this:
1) While travelling at night, the PC's are attacked by a starving dog; with eyestalks and 2 tentacles with jaws at their ends.
The problem with adventuring in the far realms itself is that it is, by definition, utterly alien. It is the planes that operate in such a fundamentally different way that they can break your sanity in an instant. Could you feasibly run an adventure in which their are five spacial dimensions (technically, I think it's possible, provided you used some sort of graphing system), or were the movement of matter affects time, or were energy itself does not exist?
I think the fundamental issue with the Far Realms is its theme is Weird Stuff. Beyond a bunch of tentacles and extra eyes, I don't really see a coherent theme behind the Far Realm denizens. Fleshy, multi-limbed, gibbering things are so overdone now that they're not terribly evocative or strange in the first place.
The problem with adventuring in the far realms itself is that it is, by definition, utterly alien. It is the planes that operate in such a fundamentally different way that they can break your sanity in an instant. Could you feasibly run an adventure in which their are five spacial dimensions (technically, I think it's possible, provided you used some sort of graphing system), or were the movement of matter affects time, or were energy itself does not exist?
Given that many aberrant creatures have mental abilities that could easily be psionics, it's not much of a stretch to assume the far realm is somehow psychoreactive.
It may be that the far realm has only 4 dimensions (like the 4 we perceive) but that they are woven together with mental energy. The fabric of space-time would then become the fabric of thought-space-time.
The notion is that it's not too difficult to imagine how a world might possess utterly bizarre laws of physics. Also, much of the description of the far realm (at least to me) evokes images of a world that is like living inside another living being.
Reading specifically the description in the MoP; it sounds to me like the far realm is a giant amoebic life form with tentacled life writhing in a psychoreactive cytoplasmic solution. This helps explain the viral nature of the var realm, and how it not only infects other worlds with it's presence, but is so able to transform the fleshly medium of other creatures' bodies.
I'd expect a Far Realm book to include monsters, abberation filled delves, story hooks, a few items and the description of an Illithid city in the Underdark. Basically stuff I would need to create something like 'Sleeper in the Tomb of Dreams' for myself.
Epic battle...you vs Chuthlu's Elbow.
Nah Cthulhu as tough as he is probably only level 35-38 all of him.
The Elder things are probably like elder gods and more or less unstatable due to the almost non exsistant chance of doing anything.
Epic battle...you vs Chuthlu's Elbow.
I think people often forget that Cthulhu was defeated with a boat to the face. A group of epic level adventurers would smear his eldritch ass across the astral floor before he could so much as croak "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh C'thulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn".
I think people often forget that Cthulhu was defeated with a boat to the face. A group of epic level adventurers would smear his eldritch ass across the astral floor before he could so much as croak "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh C'thulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn".
He got better. QUICKLY.
I'm so tired of lazy writers throwing the term "tentacles!" around like it's supposed to be scary. I eat fried calamari for dinner. Tentacles actually taste quite good.
Whenever I ran a monster in my 3e Eberron campaign that would otherwise have tentacles because of a template (like Half-Farspawn from Lords of Madness) I'd make it extra limbs with 3 elbows on them. What's more freaky, a wiggling tappered flap of flesh, or a 6-foot long arm with three hyperextending elbows flailing at your head wildly?
What's more freaky, a wiggling tappered flap of flesh, or a 6-foot long arm with three hyperextending elbows flailing at your head wildly?
The mind of the person who is running the game.
I have some TWISTED dms
What's more freaky, a wiggling tappered flap of flesh, or a 6-foot long arm with three hyperextending elbows flailing at your head wildly?
It really depends on the nature of the tentacle, and i'm not going in the "naughty" direction with this one. I will agree that an octopus-like tentacle is not terribly freaky. It would be if it was on my face, but adventurers have enough exposure that they get over the fear. That is not the only kind of tentacle though. Tentacles with mouths; with ray-shooting eyes; that end in a pod that bursts with disease/poison effect spores. These are all different from the standard octopus tentacle in that they are more threatening than a simple slam or grab. There can be a great variety to tentacles, if you use your imagination ans keep it out of the gutter.
But who am I to judge? Some people like the gutter. ;)
I'm so tired of lazy writers throwing the term "tentacles!" around like it's supposed to be scary. I eat fried calamari for dinner. Tentacles actually taste quite good.
Yeah, clichéd Call of Cthulhhu encounter:
"Upon entering the men's lavatory cubicle, you see a squid in the toilet – roll a sanity check!"
I think people often forget that Cthulhu was defeated with a boat to the face. A group of epic level adventurers would smear his eldritch ass across the astral floor before he could so much as croak "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh C'thulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn".
Not true. Read the story (and not the game supplement), and its clear that Cthulhu dodged the boat by assuming mist form before it ever made contact. Great Cthulhu can assume mist form at will.
1. Aberation planning. What do the Aboleths, Illithids, Beholders want out of the Martial Plane? What do they gain. (I personally like the 'eat the world' I posted, but still.)
2. Starting points for Far Realm games. Is there stable chunchs of the Far Realms, breaches into reality, strange rules for magic there?
3. Expanding Far Realm adventures from Heroic to Epic.
4. More rituals dealing with the Far Realm itself.
5. Paragon Paths, and class powers tied to the Realm for all classes if possible.
5. Paragon Paths, and class powers tied to the Realm for all classes if possible.
I smell the return of the Alienist.
Although it's capstone would be better as a Far Realms EpD
I smell the return of the Alienist.
Although it's capstone would be better as a Far Realms EpD
I don't have that book anymore. I think the capstone would be a paragon path, and the epic destiny would put you on the path to becoming one of the ancient beings of the far realm (Cthulhu-hood, in a sense).
I would also like to see some motivations for aberrant creatures, especially those that make use of humanoids (like the thralls of the illithids or the skum minions of the aboleths).
That is the capstone iirc actually, you become a tentacled horror.
Of demigod-like proportions? Cuz you can already become a demigod from the current epic destinies. I think the general notion should be along that theme. Plus the horror, and madness, and of course the tentacles.
I don't have that book anymore. I think the capstone would be a paragon path, and the epic destiny would put you on the path to becoming one of the ancient beings of the far realm (Cthulhu-hood, in a sense).
I would also like to see some motivations for aberrant creatures, especially those that make use of humanoids (like the thralls of the illithids or the skum minions of the aboleths).
Well there's the Starlock epic destiny 'Radiant One' (I think that's what its called...) where you become one of those weird far realm touched stars.
Well there's the Starlock epic destiny 'Radiant One' (I think that's what its called...) where you become one of those weird far realm touched stars.
What book is that in? I can't find it in the PHB I.
What book is that in? I can't find it in the PHB I.
Its in the Starlock Dragon article.
Here, its free. No mentions of tentacle though. Its also not Starlock specific and open to any level 21 character (as odd as it may be).
Its in the Starlock Dragon article.
Here, its free. No mentions of tentacle though. Its also not Starlock specific and open to any level 21 character (as odd as it may be).
Thank you very much. Do you normally have to subscribe to DDI for that kind of content?
Another thing I remember doing in my Eberron game was making Pseudonatural creatures' alternate forms actually horrific, not just "MASS'O'TENTACLESSCARRYOMG!". For instance, pseudonatural scorpions looked like giant, multihued scorpions with a giant human baby's face where a natural scorpion's eyes would be. It's alternate form? It's stinger would stab into it's own back, then erupt from the baby's face, and bloom into a gapping, three-jawed mouth with a lashing spiked tongue protuding outward from it's razor-tooth lined throat.
Being so gigantic and powerful they EAT ENTIRE PLANES FOR SNACK!!!
*shivers*
Such a book should have delves in abberant filled environement for various level so you can start fighting those guys in mid-heroic!
One of the 2e Planescape Monstrous Compendiums had a creature called an "Entrope" that did exactly that. Except they were a lot smaller (gargantuan IIRC) and ate the planes a little at a time to speed up the end of the multiverse. They lived "in between the planes" and that includes the astral plane, which is the traditional "in between the planes" plane, so I guess they exist in the Far Realm and eat the planes from there.
The thing about a Far Realm sourcebook is that I think the DM should just change the D&D rules completely arbitrarily and at random every few rounds. Far Realm has lots of tentacles, but also spontaneous transformations (like your brain spontaneously transforming into a spider swarm that immediately starts to eat you). Or maybe the terrain has a random rapidly fluctuating non-Euclidean geometry (their movement rate randomly fluctuates between 5 ft and 400 ft per round, but the terrain shifts too).
Or maybe beings suddenly turn inside out but act normally, or your limbs disappear. You might be able to pick up the sun out of the sky and hurl it at your enemies, only for the terrain to cause it to veer off course, and maybe even turn back on you. You might start aging rapidly in reverse. Or suddenly heavy armor becomes like cotton and cotton becomes like adamantine. Or magic items don't do anything or get cursed, and nonmagical weapons gain magic enhancements that change every round.
Or raising the dead might permanently kill the dead PC, while finger of death would act like true resurrection, but the switch up only happens 50% of the time. Here's a good one: mosquitoes give the PC's blood instead of healing them, but it infuses the PCs with random mutations. You might even give out and take away divine ranks or levels at random. Maybe a creature that looks city-sized from "far away" (which could be 5 feet) is actually diminutive "up close" (20 or 30 feet away).
Or maybe the color of the PC's own gear attacks them, eating their ability to hear. when the PC's are completely deaf, their ears rip off of them and sprout tentacles with mouths, webbed feet, and beholder eyestalks that go Hokusai on the party, implanting purple roses in their stomachs (with eyes in place of thorns). Bad roses that grow fast, eat meat, and animate the corpses of their food, and make them do evil things. You can't stat stuff like that very easily.
The Far Realm is supposed to make Limbo look like a low-level prime material campaign, and it's supposed to be lethal as heck to even greater deities. It's supposed to be sick, twisted, demented, evil, maddening, disgusting, bizarre, non-euclidean, perverted, obscure, and scary.
In other words, some things are better left to the minds of killer DMs with a taste for disturbing psychedelic imagery. The Far Realm is by requisite a free-form plane where normal D&D rules don't apply, because it's by definition where the rules of the multiverse don't apply.
If you want to introduce a realm beyond the space-time universe, one not bound by our physical laws, and you start by drawing a map and tourist guide, then you have already blown it.
Almost by definition, such a place could not be depicted in two dimensions. And language that depends on sequential syntax (there is a temporal and spatial order the words) could not be used to accurately describe it. For beings from a structured reality the only way to explain it would be: "Think of everything you know to be real. This isn't it."
:p
I'd rather just do 'Sleep in the Tomb of Dreams' (which is a free level 8 adventure in Dungeon BTW).
DM: Okay suddenly the color red decides it wants to drink the delicious liquid inside your eyes, roll for initiative!
:p
QUOTE]
That would suck really hard if you rolled low.
DM: Okay suddenly the color red decides it wants to drink the delicious liquid inside your eyes, roll for initiative!
:p
QUOTE]
That would suck really hard if you rolled low.
Or if you tried to use a RED DICE!!!
By the way, I have never read any Lovecraft or other examples of that segment of the horror genre. Are they any good?
Now you're thinking.
Yes, but are they thinking with portals?
:3