My theory: Rageblood Barbarians will be able to add their Constitution to their AC in light armor, and Thaneborn their Charisma.
The precedent has already been set by the other 2 primal classes, the Druid and the Warden. I wouldn't be surprised if something like that ended up in the final class writeup.
But I can't talk too much about the Barbarian. I wanted them to be a defender, so much of my speculation is colored by that.
Charisma to AC for a barbarian is ... hard to visualize.
You should watch 300.
I dont expect to see a boost to their AC in the final printing. They are in no worse shape for AC than a two-weapon ranger or a tempest fighter is.
Well they said that in response to the playtest results, they are going to give the barbarian some incentive to stay in lighter armors.....we just have no idea what that incentive will be.
I dont expect to see a boost to their AC in the final printing. They are in no worse shape for AC than a two-weapon ranger or a tempest fighter is.
... really?
Tempest Fighters have every reason to have a high Dex (and if they don't want to go for dex, they still have proficiency in scale, but are encouraged to wear chain). Two-Weapon Rangers are generally built with Str and Dex (helps them qualify for Sword feats and they get full use of the Stormwarden PP).
Barbarians have no class abilities that utilize Dexterity or Intelligence.
In Chain armor, a Tempest Fighter's AC is 17 at first level (+6 from Chain, +1 from Two-Weapon Defense). For a Barbarian to match the Fighter's AC, the barbarian would have to have an 18 Dex or Int. Even if the Barbarian bought Chain armor, the Fighter will still have more AC.
Barbarians are closer to Rangers. Rangers who focus on Str and Wis are advised to pick up Chain, but they still draw benefit from Dex (especially the versatility to use thrown weapons), so they have more reason to have a high dex.
Which one do you think has better survivability? Which one outputs more damage?
In both cases its the Barbarian. They are fine as they are. They are strikers they are not meant to run around with a 20 AC out of the box.
And even giving them the same Con for AC as the Warden can get it only increases their AC by 1 possibly 2 out of the box (18 or 20 con) So you are looking at 17 or 18 AC.
But we will see in a couple of months. Either way it matters little to me
However, if the Dm rolls, I'm surprised if he doesn't hit.
My prediction for release is that their Daily Rages will be more like the Wardens Aspects. That the character will go into a rage and gain access to an attack that can be used once during that encounter. (as well as keeping Rage Strike)
You are going to quibble over a 16 AC Barbarian vs a 17 AC Tempest Fighter?
Which one do you think has better survivability? Which one outputs more damage?
In both cases its the Barbarian. They are fine as they are. They are strikers they are not meant to run around with a 20 AC out of the box.
And even giving them the same Con for AC as the Warden can get it only increases their AC by 1 possibly 2 out of the box (18 or 20 con) So you are looking at 17 or 18 AC.
But we will see in a couple of months. Either way it matters little to me
I agree, as a striker you are not supposed to take a beating. Roleplaywise it could be difficult if you are playing your average bone-headed barbarian, but it is stupid in any other case to rush in and not have a defender around to pick the enemies off of you.
The point of being a melee striker is dishing out major damage, and not get hit. That is why barbarians can move around more than defenders, to make up for the lack of AC.
It is fine as it is, as far as I'm concerned.
As for their other build, I have a couple idea on the Thaneblood. In the article, it says they major in either defender or leader as their secondary role; obviously the con Rageblood is the defender. The thaneblood is the leader roll, so I'm expecting to see a lot of powers, and a feature to have something about a blood crazy that possibly incites fury in your allies, and terror in your enemies. Personally, I'd love to see the barbarians of that put the rattling keyword to another use, as I think it would be quite perfect for strikes and attacks that scare the !#$% out of your enemies, so to speak. I'm trying to think what other minor leader powers would come up. Temporary HP to allies maybe, but I don't think they'll be healing their allies.
But I can't talk too much about the Barbarian. I wanted them to be a defender, so much of my speculation is colored by that.
Me too, still feels odd.
Am I the only one who really wants to see a Barbarian power where you hit one guy, and everyone within a burst 1 or 2 gets rattled. The barbarian hit the one guy so hard and everyone who saw just gets really psyched out, especially fun if your target for the hit is a minion.
Now that would be cool. It could easily be a thaneborn power. I was just thinking they might get to add Con/Cha to damage while wearing light armor, to emphasize offense over defense. Or they could use it to determine AC. *shrug*
Mass rattling? Sounds a bit too controller-ish to me.
It's more leader. Giving people a penalty to hit doesn't do anything to control them; they can still do what they want to do. It does make them less effective. Giving your enemies a penalty to hit is the same as giving your allies a bonus to defenses, which many leaders do.
In fact, the two Bard (arcane leader) at wills we've been previewed so far each grant penalties to hit (one through a mark targetted on one of your allies, the other a generic -2 to hit).
Thus, penalties to hit would be a perfect ability for the thaneborn barbarian, because they're supposed to be a leader-light.
Then again, I think some of the new options we started to see in the MP book (and likely will be in future books as well) are starting to blur the lines of roles a bit (Rattling for Rogues for example), which IMO is a bad thing. One of the things I liked about the roles was an end to the "Oh, I'm not a healing cleric," type statements. I've already seen people people wanting to build a rogue as a martial controller suing some of the new options, and when specialized in such a role what you're left with is a striker that doesn't strike well and a controller that doesn't control well.
Back on topic, the Design and Development article on the Barbarian said that they were going to be giving them "something to encourage them to remain in light armor", and that they were aware of the problems with the powers incorporating striker damage into the power themselves rather than as a class ability (a melee ranger or brutal rogue could pick up some of the barbarian powers and get ridiculous damage). These were the issues that concerned my group the most, so I'm glad that they're (apparently) being addressed.
Other than a Half-Elf with Dillettante, is there any other way to pick up a class' at-wills?
Paragon multiclassing.
a good portion of Barbarian effects trigger on them being bloodied,
I find that statement on these boards all the time, but I don't see it in the barbarian. I'm aware of (the unpopular) Bloodhunt Rage at 1st level, and then Winter Ghost Rage at level 29. Other than that the only power I can find is a paragon class feature that grants Unfeeling Rage at level 16. So I'm thinking maybe 1 in 10 barbs gets a power that keys off of them being bloodied before epic levels. Am I totally blind to something?
"Why is he laughing? WHY IS HE LAUGHING?"
They found out the next round.
I can't talk too much about the Barbarian. I wanted them to be a defender, so much of my speculation is colored by that.
That's the Warden, a barbarian who's a defender-type, just with a different name. Similar to Expiditious Retreat's Savage Warrior class, except it is Martial based, not Primal. (Advanced Player's Guide, btw.)
I find that statement on these boards all the time, but I don't see it in the barbarian. I'm aware of (the unpopular) Bloodhunt Rage at 1st level,
It's unpopular? Really? I never heard that. Personally, I think it's better than Swift Panther. +2 speed and Shift 2 is nice and all... but I'd rather have the +4 damage to a bloodied opponent (or if I'm bloodied, even better! Then it's on every attack!).
That's the Warden, a barbarian who's a defender-type, just with a different name.
A warden is not a barbarian. A warden is ... well ... a warden I guess.