I was hoping AV2 would have them, but im not so sure now. PHB3 maybe?
Where there ever firearms in official 3.5 supplements?
There were firearms in the 3.5 DMG.
That said, no. At best, I figure we might see firearms in a campaign setting book.
I'm hopeful that there will at the very least have a DDI Exclusive for Firearms. I also am hopeful that WoTC does some interesting things with firearms and goes for more style then trying to replicate real-guns, given that in a podcast question they talked about it and said that if they brought in firearms they would approach it from a fantasy angle.
Well thinking a little more about it now, if i were Wizards and wanted to introduce firearms, i would go about the fantasy spin on them as apposed to the real life aspect. And in bringing them about, i would create at least a class or race or specific faction or what have you to help them get integrated into the rest of the game, so they feel like a part of it more than anything. As apposed to 'oh and here are some gun rules'
Where there ever firearms in official 3.5 supplements?
There were also some in one Dragon article. Though the list available was extensive there weren't much beyond that. (Magic items, NPCs, etc.)
The IDEA'S alone are of great help, plus the artwork itself makes the issue worth having. As for a 4e core product offering rules on firearms... I highly doubt we will ever see them included in "core" d&d.
This isn't 3e or 2e: there are only a tiny number of variables. Damage die, proficiency bonus, reload time, and range (and then trivials like weight and cost). What is there really to design?
Weapon Properties.
I'd rather not have guns/rifles/flintlocks in Dungeons and Dragons. I could maybe see some kind of very very primitive firearms in an Eberron setting but otherwise, no. And when I say "very very primitive" I mean the kinds that were huge and called "hand cannones".
I'm the exact opposite I want revolvers, repeating rifles, machine guns, howitzers, etc. In my current campaign for instance your basic trooper has this:
I'd rather not have guns/rifles/flintlocks in Dungeons and Dragons. I could maybe see some kind of very very primitive firearms in an Eberron setting but otherwise, no. And when I say "very very primitive" I mean the kinds that were huge and called "hand cannones".
You may not want them but that is no reason for them not to print them. Many people (myself included) would like to see their return. The have a presence in Forgotten Realms (they were listed as regional items for inhabitants of Lantan).
I think they should be included for settings and regions that boarder on the steampunk.
I think they should be included for settings and regions that boarder on the steampunk.
Seconded.
I think they should be included for settings and regions that boarder on the steampunk.
I personally do not think that the settings or regions have to border on steampunk. Given the levels of magic in most D&D settings I do not see gunpowder as really being that far fetched of an idea or an over-stretching of the imagination. I have no problem with some clever dwarves mixing chemicals and finding something that goes boom or some wizard/alchemist stumbling upon the formula for gunpowder. Even in our real world some gunpowder was invented by a society that was not all that technologically advanced. Chin around 800-1000 AD was most certainly not all that advanced of a culture (when compared to traditional steampunk type environments), and they had gunpowder.
*Snip*
From what I've read Guns were also found in Greyhawk.
I'd rather not have guns/rifles/flintlocks in Dungeons and Dragons. I could maybe see some kind of very very primitive firearms in an Eberron setting but otherwise, no. And when I say "very very primitive" I mean the kinds that were huge and called "hand cannones".
This
Bel
I'm the exact opposite I want revolvers, repeating rifles, machine guns, howitzers, etc. In my current campaign for instance your basic trooper has this:
My shoulder hurts just looking at that!
Probably fits into one of the reasons it never entered production. But damn, does it ever look like a gun for a steampunk game and thus why it is in my game :P
I personally do not think that the settings or regions have to border on steampunk. Given the levels of magic in most D&D settings I do not see gunpowder as really being that far fetched of an idea or an over-stretching of the imagination. I have no problem with some clever dwarves mixing chemicals and finding something that goes boom or some wizard/alchemist stumbling upon the formula for gunpowder. Even in our real world some gunpowder was invented by a society that was not all that technologically advanced. Chin around 800-1000 AD was most certainly not all that advanced of a culture (when compared to traditional steampunk type environments), and they had gunpowder.
Okay, I can't possibly agree with the claim that China was not a "all that advanced of a culture", but Mock26 otherwise makes a very good point. Gunpowder was pretty widely known and available a long time ago. An example that I like to bring out is the Battle of Agincourt in the year 1415. This is a battle that showcases many commonly assumed parts of D&D technology: longbows and knights wearing plate armor. Gunpowder was first used as a military weapon in Europe in 1262. According to Wikipedia, by 1411, the Duke of Burgundy had several thousand guns in his armory. Historically speaking, gunpowder weapons were quite prevalent in the world during the time period that D&D style fantasy typically model.
Of course, I am one of those people who wouldn't mind having stats for semi-automatic handguns in D&D, since I am a big fan of the Final Fantasy branch of fantasy fiction.
EDIT: As a quick sidenote, it is worth pointing out that flintlock weapons are way too advanced if you are aiming for a period-appropriate firearm. The flintlock mechanism was invented in the mid-17th century, after a couple of centuries worth of technological progress and weapons development past the end of the Middle Ages. A flintlock gun is not a primitive or early firearm by any stretch of the imagination.
In particular, I like an idea of guns that is exactly opposite the historical one. In the real world, early guns were relatively cheap, easy-to-use, inaccurate, and crude weapons that were heavily associated with the use of large armies made of conscripts and common soldiers. I prefer a vision of fantasy guns that are elaborate and highly refined technological wonders that are only ever used by elite and capable agents who work in the shadows of powerful nations.
In other words, I really like the way guns are used in the Suikoden series of videogames.
In other words, I really like the way guns are used in the Suikoden series of videogames.
Best example ever.
It is basically two iron pipes connected by a locking hinge and a gear crank with a key wrench insert (for opening and closing the pipes). It includes a stabilizer spring which is basically a stock, wrapped in cloth to help protect the user from harm due to the massive recoil effect. It has an insert slot for the firing cap (black powder container) along with a latch plug to cover the insert, an activation switch (trigger), and a detonation switch (hammer).
The rear pipe has a small groove in it to hold the projectile (bullet/slug/round) so it doesn't slide forward and get jammed in the barrel (still has a risk of happening when the weapon is turned upside down). Its fitted with a long hilt (handle grip) which is wrapped in leather to protect the users hands from harm due to recoil. It include three locking rings on the top of the rear pipe (sight) , each one gets smaller from back to front.
The firing cap, or "bang cap" is like one of those gold coin chocolate candies, only much bigger. the back end of the cap is filled with black powder and the front end is filled with wadding of an undecided material. The firing cap is made of either ceramic or glass, with the front being much weaker than the back. A known issue with the firing cap is it breaking if the weapon is dropped, the chamber fills up with blackpowder and if not cleaned out, it can cause the weapon to explode if used. (backfire)
The weapon is a death trap, which is why it spawned a prestige class of the same name. The forgecaster is a gnome or dwarf cleric of Reorx who uses divine magic to safeguard against backfires and blessings to ensure the weapon functions and reduces the chance of malfunction.
The weapon has a malfunction table, special ammunition choices and mostly comes in a rifle form, although a sidearm (pistol) form is being worked on now. Its a huge pain in the butt to use, breaks often, costs a fortune to make and repair but when it works, its devastating. It also does blunt and piercing damage at the same time. But it also does non lethal damage to the user when fired.;)
Hey, its a tinker gnome creation. Atleast it doesn't have bells, whistles and steam engines. Those come later.:D
I also have wandblasters, psicrystal channelers and wrathfocuses and incarnumfocuses, which are all basically guns with magical ammo.
I'd rather not have guns/rifles/flintlocks in Dungeons and Dragons. I could maybe see some kind of very very primitive firearms in an Eberron setting but otherwise, no. And when I say "very very primitive" I mean the kinds that were huge and called "hand cannones".
The funny thing here?
You'll probably never see an actual gun published in Eberron. The creators intentionally left them out in order to maintain a more magical/fantasy aesthetic where spell and ritual is the technology.
Forgotten Realms, however, actually had firearms via Gond and Lantan. While they didn't get into the equipment section of the 3E FRCS books, there's a picture of a Gnome using one in the book and rules for them in Magic of Faerun.
The unconventional setting everyone expects to have firearms has pretty much stated that you'll never see them, while the setting everyone exalts as classic fantasy D&D does.
Oh, and i like to mess with em, i have one gun that needs to be "cranked" to produce a lightning effect, and another that teleports the target....fun fun fun
My preference would be for a more fantasical, balanced set of firearms that could stand with crossbows and bows without being a better or worse option.
Okay, I can't possibly agree with the claim that China was not a "all that advanced of a culture", but Mock26 otherwise makes a very good point. Gunpowder was pretty widely known and available a long time ago. An example that I like to bring out is the Battle of Agincourt in the year 1415. This is a battle that showcases many commonly assumed parts of D&D technology: longbows and knights wearing plate armor. Gunpowder was first used as a military weapon in Europe in 1262. According to Wikipedia, by 1411, the Duke of Burgundy had several thousand guns in his armory. Historically speaking, gunpowder weapons were quite prevalent in the world during the time period that D&D style fantasy typically model.
The problem is that realistic midieval guns would be nigh worthless; a trained bowman was better than a gunman until the 18th century. Guns didn't replace bows and similar because they were better, but because they wee easier to use.
Of course, I am one of those people who wouldn't mind having stats for semi-automatic handguns in D&D, since I am a big fan of the Final Fantasy branch of fantasy fiction.
The fundamental problem is that guns do not get along well with bows and crossbows.
Basically, you don't want to outmode bows and crossbows, because people LIKE using them, but if you give them guns as well, people will feel sort of obligated to use them/feel obsolete if they do not.
All that said, I'd love a world which had firearms in it as an official campaign setting.
My current world doesn't have handheld guns, but it does have cannons. Why? Because cannons are cool.
If you want to have them as a player's main weapon, you either have to make them fantasy-based or design them at a level of technology that is far past the supposed "medieval" foundation of some settings. Having to clean out and tinker with the things after every shot makes early firearms unsuitable for PC weapons
Isn't magic basically already past the medieval level of technology? :D
I'd think it logical that magic would have some hand in the design, if not the actual crafting of the weapon. If not magic, then alchemy. Ultimately, so long as they're balanced, I won't care.
And of course, if they do print them in a regular Adventurer's Vault instead of a setting book, remember that core does not inherently mean allowed.
Isn't magic basically already past the medieval level of technology? :D
Are you getting all Aurthur C. Clarke on me here? ;)
I'd think it logical that magic would have some hand in the design, if not the actual crafting of the weapon. If not magic, then alchemy. Ultimately, so long as they're balanced, I won't care.
Well, the alchemy aspect is pretty much required if you are doing anything remotely similar to real-life firearms. Personally, id prefer standard firearms that work with gunpower or blackpowder or blasting caps or whatever, while magical upgrades are optional.
On the other hand, im currently playing an artificer who uses a traditional gun while all of his wands and staves are refluffed arcane firearms.
If you want to have them as a player's main weapon, you either have to make them fantasy-based or design them at a level of technology that is far past the supposed "medieval" foundation of some settings. Having to clean out and tinker with the things after every shot makes early firearms unsuitable for PC weapons
It's essentially the same with most weapons in D&D. People weren't whirling around the battlefield with dual scimitars, firing their crossbows every six seconds (or more!) and ignoring the effects of water and moisture on their bows especially if they were composite bows.
D&D weapons have always been more about fulfilling fantasy expectations and being balanced against one another rather than accurately emulating real world combat.
It's essentially the same with most weapons in D&D. People weren't whirling around the battlefield with dual scimitars, firing their crossbows every six seconds (or more!) and ignoring the effects of water and moisture on their bows especially if they were composite bows.
D&D weapons have always been more about fulfilling fantasy expectations and being balanced against one another rather than accurately emulating real world combat.
*Nods* That is why whenever people bring up firearms and weapons in general. I go with, "watch movies, read fiction, etc. don't read weapon schematics. Emulate the fiction and the feel of the weapons not the reality."
Lantan gone.
smokepowder is gone when they disposed of the weave when they disposed of Mystra by Cyric Spanking her with the switch of Azuth.
Gond may be still around, but it means very little that the ritual to create the smokepowder and diagrams to create a smokepowder weapon survived the Tidal Wave that leveled most of Lantan.
on the otherhand, no telling what survived the wave either.
but still smokepowder required the weave so no smokepowder for you.
no on the otherhand only Greyhawk would have them now, them and Eberron.
however if anything they would only be considered at best optional, as they were in 3.x and at best in 4e DDI and still optional.
either way, Im not one for them.
no on the otherhand only Greyhawk would have them now, them and Eberron.
As mentioned before, it's been pointed out that leaving firearms out of Eberron was a conscious choice and that they don't plan on adding them. That would leave Grayhawk.
or a silver flame thrower
okay I got nothing
true then, must of missed that post.