Personally, I want a Psionic class keyed off Wisdom… someone who has achieved enlightenment or something to that effect. I don't know how it would be done though, or what it would be.
I would like to see this soulknife everyone keeps talking about. Yes, its technically do-able with the monk, but its something that'll avoid future Psionic X.
Classes need something to make them stand out, a player who's more concerned with theme over mechanics will look at the battlemind/ardent and just see a fighter with a halo around his head. I don't care if classes have redundant themes (Rogue vs Assassin, Archer Ranger vrs Seeker), but something beyond "hey i'm this class but psychic".
The sixth class might be up to some debate, since most of the bases are covered once you've got the second striker in place. Perhaps there should be another class related thematically to the Monk so it doesn't feel so much like the odd duck of the psionic group; either a Swordsage-type class which focuses on Ki Focus and weapon use (either a light-armored Defender or a melee Controller might fit), or a Mystic that has more of a ranged focus.
Perhaps a mark mechanic that let him redirect attacks (They think they're attacking something else, or maybe marking the enemy makes all your allies appear much more frightening in their mind, and so they take some penalty?), maybe even that the enemy sees the defender where-ever they turn, even though he's elsewhere, so he presents multiple targets for attack? I think that'd be a bit nifty.
Beyond that, I've not yet seen the Battlemind preview, but from what I've heard of it (and read of the Ardent) I also wouldn't mind seeing either or both of a new psionic defender and leader. The battlemind sounds kind of... meh. And the Ardent? I'm really not a fan. Actually, I'm really disappointed that the Ardent is what we get for a psionic leader.
Gah.
EDIT: Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing a Shaper come back. While, as a summoner-concept, it would naturally tend toward Controller, I think they could make it an interesting striker option. We haven't seen a summoning striker yet, have we?
(Then again, one can already create a very convincing shaper using the Shaman mechanics. Still, if it went for more "OMG damage!" and less leader-ey stuff, it could easily be distinct.)
While I think the Monk can easily absorb the Soulknife (give it an alternative feature, or a feat, or even a full build, if folks want a more direct mechanical representation - but it works well as-is), I too would like to see an augmenting psionic striker.
Beyond that, I've not yet seen the Battlemind preview, but from what I've heard of it (and read of the Ardent) I also wouldn't mind seeing either or both of a new psionic defender and leader. The battlemind sounds kind of... meh. And the Ardent? I'm really not a fan. Actually, I'm really disappointed that the Ardent is what we get for a psionic leader.
Gah.
EDIT: Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing a Shaper come back. While, as a summoner-concept, it would naturally tend toward Controller, I think they could make it an interesting striker option. We haven't seen a summoning striker yet, have we?
(Then again, one can already create a very convincing shaper using the Shaman mechanics. Still, if it went for more "OMG damage!" and less leader-ey stuff, it could easily be distinct.)
Psionic Shaper + Incarnum stuff and i would be really really happy
CLASS: Role. Mechanic. Fluff.
SOULKNIFE/SOULBLADE: Striker. With daily o encounters "get psionic focus" powers and at will that can be augmented spending the psionic focus. The soulknife we know in 3.5
STOCHASTIC/MINDBOW: Striker as bow ranger or controler as seeker. Same as soulK, an archer who focus his mind to aim better. Think as a guy with the closed eyes shoting with wis bow and a luminous eye in his head.
LURKER: Striker. This for the power points striker, as a psichic rogue mixed with a bard (for his versatility)
HIPNOTIST/ILUSIONIST: Controler. With power points. As the ilusionist school of 3.5, the afecting mind, control enemys and those things.
WILDER: Striker. Yes, wilder. Like the dark pact of the warlock (FR CS) but only doing drawback to itself. As the 3.5 class.
I cant think in a defender, maybe something like the swordmage with a lot of teleport and missunderstand to the enemies (like attack their allies) or a offtank defender (never done) that not get the monster attention, he may redirect to other pc (maybe a true tank)
PD: There are only ideas, but I do another PH3 with those number of classes...
PD2: Enlgish isn´t my language, sorry about it.
PD3: Yes, I love psionics.
Primary to their abilities would be Vision, a small area of focus in which they can see the future and manipulate its outcome. It could mean warning a party member of an impending attack, spotting an ambush to come, or predicting just where the foe will be to inact a certain tactical maneuver. The hypothetical reaction would concentrate on interception; whenever an ally is attacked within your Vision, your interrupt either increases their defenses or outright negates it.
Thing is, this Vision is limited. It takes the form of a burst-shaped effect, and you would have to hook it up to a target (concentrating on an ally, for example, means wherever the ally goes, you have Vision over everything within a few squares of him. Ditto for an enemy.). If something occurs outside of your Sight, your reactions are much more limited.
The rest of their powers would likewise focus on premonitions. It could be anything from projecting visages of doom into the opponent's minds (This is you when the fighter stabs you, this is you being set on fire, this is you being humiliated when I tell all your allies about what happened when you were six, and yes, I already saw it!) to boosting allied attacks in a semi-leader fashion to just outright dirty fighting through perfect predictions.
This would supply us with a caster-defender who is actually rather weak; isn't very impressive physically, but fulfills the defensive role very well, without even needing to be adjacent. Which would be a hell of a lot more interesting than Another Generic Melee Defender, But With Psi!
Might be a bit gimmicky, though, so premonition might be toned down a little.
As an alternative, it would be quite nifty to take the Elocater/Nomad and cross it with the Seer. A psychoporting, precognitive warrior who can see the future and bend reality to be wherever she is needed, a true master of space and time. Add swashbuckling flair with the use of Ki foci and soulknife lore; the ability to pull weaponry from just about anywhere, anyplace to suit the situation. One build would focus on being twelve steps ahead of the opponent, seeing their moves and negating everything they can do. The other could focus on spatial abilities, pulling out appropriate tools for any given situation, drawing exactly the right weapon from some facet of reality, blinking across space to get ahead of a target, and sometimes just throwing an opponent across dimensions.
A ranger will shoot you with an arrow.
An Elocater will psychoport in a ballista.
I want to see a leader and defender that aren't "I'm a fighter/warlord who's psionic" and a psionic defender that doesn't end up controlling himself and his party more than the enemy.
Classes need something to make them stand out, a player who's more concerned with theme over mechanics will look at the battlemind/ardent and just see a fighter with a halo around his head. I don't care if classes have redundant themes (Rogue vs Assassin, Archer Ranger vrs Seeker), but something beyond "hey i'm this class but psychic".
+10
SOULKNIFE/SOULBLADE: Striker. With daily o encounters "get psionic focus" powers and at will that can be augmented spending the psionic focus. The soulknife we know in 3.5
While I think there's plenty of room for another psionic striker, I really do think "the soulknife we know in 3.5" is really just an alternative Monk/Rogue - and it can be built as such using those classes in 4th as well. Adding some kind of feature/feat/build that gives you a mindblade instead of the monk unarmed strike, and then MCing Rogue for a few ranged powers, would really accomplish "3.5 soulknife" well.
That said, if they did go the Soulknife route for another psionic striker, I'd much prefer they roll the nomad into it completely - all of the teleporty/time-travelly/fast-movement goodness combined with the "stab people - in the mind!" elements of the Soulknife.
Then again, as I type that out and look at the Monk preview again... it mostly already has all of that stuff. In Heroic it's mostly faster shifting, and slightly boosted movement, but at about mid-paragon the teleportation stuff kicks in really strong.
Re: soulknives, I can heartily recommend this product, which contains feats which already do most of the things people are asking for. Pair it with a rogue, monk, or ranger, and you've got your classic soulknife.
For now, the Psion can be re-fluffed, but this seems like such a generic psionic concept that I'm honestly not sure why it's not one of the initial four classes. They easily could have rolled the Ardent and Battlemind together into something (or just taken one) and put in a class like this instead, a second ranged implement psionic class.
I want the Wilder. I hated the name, but I loved the concept. Not every psionic person trains or studies for their power like a Psion (or Wizard). It's a common trope in psionics to have a character that is simply a psychic prodigy. They didn't ask for their power. They just have it. Sort of like the Sorcerer, I guess. Usually these characters are telekinetic or precognative, so those should be the initial builds for the class, but like the Sorcerer, this class should include the theme of lack of control. After all, this is a character that doesn't have these powers willingly. Sometimes they see things they don't want to see or move things around, often violently, without meaning to.
For now, the Psion can be re-fluffed, but this seems like such a generic psionic concept that I'm honestly not sure why it's not one of the initial four classes. They easily could have rolled the Ardent and Battlemind together into something (or just taken one) and put in a class like this instead, a second ranged implement psionic class.
Wilder has been made into a theme for Dark Sun characters. Not that we know too much about themes, but this apparently means all psionic classes can become wilders now!
I want the Wilder. I hated the name, but I loved the concept. Not every psionic person trains or studies for their power like a Psion (or Wizard). It's a common trope in psionics to have a character that is simply a psychic prodigy. They didn't ask for their power. They just have it. Sort of like the Sorcerer, I guess. Usually these characters are telekinetic or precognative, so those should be the initial builds for the class, but like the Sorcerer, this class should include the theme of lack of control. After all, this is a character that doesn't have these powers willingly. Sometimes they see things they don't want to see or move things around, often violently, without meaning to.
I thought that's what they were going to do with the Ardent, as sort of a expansion from just empathy, Empath + Wilder = interesting Leader class
I guess they could still do it as a ranged striker, but then that would seem a little much like Sorcerer
As apposed to combining the Ardent and the Battlemind into one class, I would rather they just got rid of the Ardent and made the Battlemind more varied to encompass more archetypes.
Step 1
Look I made a guide to help make your own Psionic class concept!
Step 1
I always thought the crystal relation was kind of goofy, but since wizards only seems to be able to produce 1 power-point class before sticking halo's on martial classes, It may have been a better idea to keep them around.
vs.
This also doesn't help their claims that Ki wasn't viable, when the 2 of the 3 psionic classes that weren't Ki refugees are rather uninspired.
I really love the Ardent and Battlemind. I feel they are much more than people are giving them credit. Both got me really excited, because character concepts I've had rolling around that I've wanted to carry out are FINALLY DOABLE. Both of these classes play into concepts that really resonate with me, but you need to look at the powers and features, not at the fluff like "arrogant merc."
For my own desires, besides the Wis-class (Mystic?), I want a Lurk – a non-Monk Psionic Striker. I don't think that the Soulknife on it's own is tenable, though combined with the Nomad might be.
That said, if the Lurk turns out to be too similar to the Beguiller (which I see as a Shadow Controller) in concept… no, Beguillers are more shadowy, while Lurks might hide in the back of people's minds – they can't even see the Lurk because the Lurk erased herself from your perception.
The battlemind does feel like a fighter with psychic powers, just like a warden feels like a fighter with nature powers. The fighter is just too general a concept to allow any other defender to be anythign but fighter+source. However I will give the battlemind is likely the least distinct, but we still only have half the class.
I want a Lurk
Step 1
The battlemind does feel like a fighter with psychic powers, just like a warden feels like a fighter with nature powers. The fighter is just too general a concept to allow any other defender to be anythign but fighter+source. However I will give the battlemind is likely the least distinct, but we still only have half the class.
Yes, thats a good point.
but I at least expect a defender to be at the least a Fighter + Source + History + Relation to other classes within source + explanation of how one gets the power.
Warden may just seem like a fighter + primal in a simple sense of the concept, but Battlemind only has that level of concept, with Warden when you look at the story behind the class and how they fit into setting, you see there's a bit more thought behind the class than there would appear.
I feel like Battlemind is getting a lot of the same bashing. We'll probably see more and more unifying fluff for it and Psionics as the edition advances, ESPECIALLY after Psionic Power.
The battlemind does feel like a fighter with psychic powers, just like a warden feels like a fighter with nature powers. The fighter is just too general a concept to allow any other defender to be anythign but fighter+source. However I will give the battlemind is likely the least distinct, but we still only have half the class.
Yes, thats a good point.
but I at least expect a defender to be at the least a Fighter + Source + History + Relation to other classes within source + explanation of how one gets the power.
Warden may just seem like a fighter + primal in a simple sense of the concept, but Battlemind only has that level of concept, with Warden when you look at the story behind the class and how they fit into setting, you see there's a bit more thought behind the class than there would appear.
Very true, but for me half that feel didn't come until Primal Power just a few months ago. Thats where warden's really got time to shine, and get flushed out. Now I hope we don't have to wait tille Psionic Power to get that type of attention for Battlemind, but mind you we have even gotten the intro to the power source (assumed from primal's introduction in PHB2)
I feel like Battlemind is getting a lot of the same bashing. We'll probably see more and more unifying fluff for it and Psionics as the edition advances, ESPECIALLY after Psionic Power.
I hope for all our sake that you're right.
But I'm still going to give WotC a hard time; somebody has to keep em on their toes, just to let em know somethings don't slide.
The battlemind does feel like a fighter with psychic powers, just like a warden feels like a fighter with nature powers. The fighter is just too general a concept to allow any other defender to be anythign but fighter+source. However I will give the battlemind is likely the least distinct, but we still only have half the class.
And that's one of the biggest hurdles WotC has to finally get their rears over.
Because Leaders have been defined in multiple ways (although six out of seven still have a melee build, if not requirement), branching out in unique paths like the Shaman. Controllers have expanded to things like the Druid, which defined control on a melee level. Strikers have bridged the gap from being pure damage to being multiple types of foci, from artillery blasting sorcerers to condition heavy warlocks.
Defenders are still stuck as fighter clones. They need to expand the concept, or else every single class published under that label will simply be "Like a Fighter, but with X"
I was thinking in the psionic defender... May be:
ELOCATOR: Defender. With group teleport powers (a little bit controler), and powers based in movement (If that enemy go away from you triggers more damage, if that enemy do not move triggers more damage...) and a Defender mark whose teleport near you an enemy when damage another PC.
PD: I was feeleng the same Wardenconection with psionics from 3.5, when I started to play D&D, so I understand you... But I will have to wait a lot of month more to read them in spanish.
Defenders are still stuck as fighter clones. They need to expand the concept, or else every single class published under that label will simply be "Like a Fighter, but with X"
Imagine some class that could be anywhere on the battlemap. It could immediatly swap itself with any ally about to take a hit - therefore taking them all. Then, after being all bruised, he simply regenerates. Like, super-fast, Wolverine-like healing.
That would be a different, interesting, awesome take to a Defender class. Heck, it could even be Psionic!
On a side note, yeah, I agree that Soulkinfe + Nomad could work. Imagine the setting: a human wizard, an elf archer, a dwarf fighter and a... DARK TEMPLAR!
AWESOME!
Now we only need a Protoss race ^^
I'd want to see an Oracle (psionic leader that utilizes the hidden potential in her allies' minds) and a seer (psionic defender that has short bursts of insight into the future, so he would, for a second, see his friend get shanked by an orc, and then move in on it; I don't know how that would work out in mechanics, though).
After playing a Vanguard in Mass Effect 2, I hope the Battlemind gets something just like the Charge power.
I'd like this too, though technically the Vanguard are more like strikers than defenders.
The ardent is depicted as pretty much a militant sort of character, but who has manifested psionic power which is added as a supplement to an otherwise very martial-feeling package. I was hoping for more of the various psychic archetypes in fiction to show up.
It could be that other concepts are being saved for another psionic class later on. Either way, my idea for at least one future psionic class is this psychic-sensitive type, who not only draws power from strong emotions (whether of others or their own, but can share both health and power between allies, use telepathic to coordinate actions from across the battlefield, and unlocking the latent power and ability in others. A really cool mechanic for a class like this would be granting allies actual temporary powers, and it's one we really haven't seen in other leaders classes.
A really cool mechanic for a class like this would be granting allies actual temporary powers, and it's one we really haven't seen in other leaders classes.
I like this idea. And I really think it's doable. I mean, there already are daily powers that grant the users new at-will or encounter attacks as one of their effects. There's little balance difference between Target: self and Target: one ally. Other than specifying the ability score for the attack bonus? But I'd say, since this is an implement-using theoretical class bestowing non-weapon power, the strength behind the attack comes from the empath. So example:
Empath power grants fighter a new encounter power.
Attack: Cha vs NAD (implement)
Hit: blah
Special: use the empath's charisma modifier and implement for attack and damage rolls.
It's actually a fair bit like the warrior-forge artificer.
A really cool mechanic for a class like this would be granting allies actual temporary powers, and it's one we really haven't seen in other leaders classes.
I like this idea. And I really think it's doable. I mean, there already are daily powers that grant the users new at-will or encounter attacks as one of their effects. There's little balance difference between Target: self and Target: one ally. Other than specifying the ability score for the attack bonus? But I'd say, since this is an implement-using theoretical class bestowing non-weapon power, the strength behind the attack comes from the empath. So example:
Empath power grants fighter a new encounter power.
Attack: Cha vs NAD (implement)
Hit: blah
Special: use the empath's charisma modifier and implement for attack and damage rolls.
It's actually a fair bit like the warrior-forge artificer.
Yeah! One way to do it is to use the empath's attack bonus/ability modifier, but the power is controlled by the character to which it's granted. Another way is to have the ally use "highest ability modifier + 2/4/6," like with the powers granted by Warden guardian forms.
And a simple mechanic to represent the same concept is allowing an ally to use powers through the empath's square, or to use your own power through an ally's square, as if you and the ally are "borrowing" each other's power. I think this would be particularly nice for at-wills.
We could end up with a class which is very tactically unique after the fashion of the shaman, only through various allies rather than a spirit companion.
Ardent really doesn't emphasise the same elements as the old Ardent did.
Empath is someone who deals with the emotions of people psychically. This is exactly what the Ardent does, either with his allies or his enemies.
Empath seems to me to be the Ardent with a different name.
Ardent really doesn't emphasise the same elements as the old Ardent did.
Empath is someone who deals with the emotions of people psychically. This is exactly what the Ardent does, either with his allies or his enemies.
Ardent is definitely an empath concept, but ardent doesn't encompass the variety of characters described as "empaths" in fiction, comics, etc.
For a class to deal with emotions of people psychically is kind of like saying a class "inspires allies with their actions." Warlord, bard, and even thaneborn barbarian "inspire allies with their actions," but it means different things for each one.
An ardent - who emphasizes intensity and gusto - does it in one way, but there is room for a related concept who does it in another way - emphasizing communal consciousness and meditation.
Ardent is a fine class, but it's certainly one concept amongst a few different ones.
Empath seems to me to be the Ardent with a different name.
Ardent really doesn't emphasise the same elements as the old Ardent did.
Empath is someone who deals with the emotions of people psychically. This is exactly what the Ardent does, either with his allies or his enemies.
Ardent is definitely an empath concept, but ardent doesn't encompass the variety of characters described as "empaths" in fiction, comics, etc.
For a class to deal with emotions of people psychically is kind of like saying a class "inspires allies with their actions." Warlord, bard, and even thaneborn barbarian "inspire allies with their actions," but it means different things for each one.
An ardent - who emphasizes intensity and gusto - does it in one way, but there is room for a related concept who does it in another way - emphasizing communal consciousness and meditation.
Ardent is a fine class, but it's certainly one concept amongst a few different ones.
You're warriors. PCs are supposed to get riled up to fight. That said, I would point you towards the Mantle of Clarity and the associated Enlightened Ardent build that was debuted. It's definitely more of the communal consciousness and meditation than the Mantle of Elation's Kamina-esque leadership.
That said, I think there is still more room for more Empathic options, albeit as new Mantles for the Ardent, not as a new class altogether. Too much overlap.
You're warriors. PCs are supposed to get riled up to fight. That said, I would point you towards the Mantle of Clarity and the associated Enlightened Ardent build that was debuted. It's definitely more of the communal consciousness and meditation than the Mantle of Elation's Kamina-esque leadership.
That said, I think there is still more room for more Empathic options, albeit as new Mantles for the Ardent, not as a new class altogether. Too much overlap.
A build doesn't explore the design space I described earlier, and this particular example (Mantle of Clarity) is not a close approximation of the kinds of character concepts I'd mentioned. Ardent has a clear focus, and it is one that is very militant and warlord-like. That has been made plain. Unlike with some classes - such as cleric - whose builds create almost a picture of multiple classes in one, the ardent has no indication of being one of those classes at present. This isn't a flaw of the class. It does mean, however, that Mantle of Clarity is not a stand-in for an altogether different psionic leader mold.
I wasn't sure why you pointed out that PCs are warriors - I'm not suggesting that ardent should be a very passive class or that we need more passive classes. The most passive style of build so far seems to be shielding cleric, and even that is far from a combat-incapable character concept, and that should probably be the limit as to how passive a build should be. I'd guess, though, that you meant the same line of thought voiced by people who were hesitant about the thought of having an "empath" class, because that hinted at a character that would be squeamish.
Perhaps I should point out that I'm not desiring a "fix" for ardent, nor any change in the ardent class, and no one needs to defend the ardent to me. Instead, I'm thinking up a different kind of psionic leader. A character that would have more in common with the bard or shaman than the warlord or Strength-based cleric.
I don't think it was as clear before, so I'll put out this argument - I do think that ardent is an empath-like concept, but I don't think it embodies that concept even so much as to push another similar class out of design territory. Ardent is a very D&D-born idea. Ardent's empathic theme seems to be fairly limited to using emotional intensity as a source of strength and sending forth ripples of their own psychically-tuned emotion to offer that strength to nearby allies.
Here are some examples of empath-like themes the ardent doesn't feature or is unlikely to feature, at least in more than a few powers:
- Taking others' pain onto oneself to heal them.
- Creating empathic feedback to hinder foes.
- Being receptive to psychic energy, instead of projecting it to others. For instance, drawing on an ally's rage, enhancing a power if an ally has been bloodied.
- Using telepathic coordination over a distance. There are a couple powers like this in the debut, but they are decidely short range and don't do much to suggest the "mental network" idea that often occurs with telepath and empath-like characters.
- Pain-split or power-sharing mechanics. Ardent might have some utilities like this in PHB3 that aren't previewed, but so far shaman and cleric have a lot more of this than the ardent shows hints of having. Powers like Bonds of the Clan and Ode to Sacrifice seem perfect for the idea of a empathic leader, but if ardent has any, it doesn't appear to be a major theme of even an existing build.
- More classically psychic capabiltiies, such as telepathic blasts and deception, various paranormal powers like telekinesis or clairvoyance, etc. Psion has plenty of this, but the overlap between psion and ardent seems to be even smaller than the overlap between the wizard and the bard, or the invoker and the avenger.
The ardent isn't presented as a "psychic" in the classic sense, as being mostly supernatural - it seems even less "caster-like" than even the swordmage. This is perfectly fine on its own. However, it does mean that ardent is a very unique concept, rather than a catch-all for empathic characters in the same way that fighter and the ranger are good catch-alls for various soldier or weaponmaster characters.
Look I made a guide to help make your own Psionic class concept!
Step 1
1 - some sort of shaper type that uses ectoplasm & astral constructs - I could see that done as either a defender or controller (ectoplasmic weapons & armor, astral creatures, walls, objects, etc...) If someone is correct that they are doing a summoning build in Psionic Power, then I could see this get incorporated into psion as a shaper/metacreative class feature along with telepath and telekinetic
2 - a soulknife striker - none of the existing classes could support a mental blade as a seperate class feature without completely goofing up the role (though it's possible that soulknife is a battlemind paragon path) - I could definitely see a soulknife striker class with at least 3 different class features (mental blade, tk blade, and thrown blades) and with powers that do extra things on a soulknife strike and nomad-ish teleportation and movement powers
l'd personally I'd like to see two things:
1 - some sort of shaper type that uses ectoplasm & astral constructs - I could see that done as either a defender or controller (ectoplasmic weapons & armor, astral creatures, walls, objects, etc...) If someone is correct that they are doing a summoning build in Psionic Power, then I could see this get incorporated into psion as a shaper/metacreative class feature along with telepath and telekinetic
2 - a soulknife striker - none of the existing classes could support a mental blade as a seperate class feature without completely goofing up the role (though it's possible that soulknife is a battlemind paragon path) - I could definitely see a soulknife striker class with at least 3 different class features (mental blade, tk blade, and thrown blades) and with powers that do extra things on a soulknife strike and nomad-ish teleportation and movement powers
I'd actually started a little bit of work on a soulknife class before the power point thing was revealed. I based the selectable class feature instead on "trained soulknife" versus "wilder soulknife." Taking a cue from the sorcerer, I made Wisdom or Charisma the secondary ability for the two kinds. Trained soulknives (I had come up with better terms) were masters of doing things with mind blades that you couldn't do with ordinary weapons, like making it 'port from one hand to the other, while wilder soulknives were all brute force. The former felt like a monk, but had a lot of combat advantage effects, while the latter felt like a barbarian. Both paths offered both melee and thrown powers.
Otherwise, what else is there? Looking back, the other classes in 3.5 that aren't covered now are the Lurker (psi-rogue), the Erudite (which was a wizardly rehash of the Psion), and... maybe not even something else. Psionics have a history of being "I'm an x, but psychic!" I would like there to be some new ideas coming out, after the Wilder and/or Soulknife. Some unique Psionics would be good.
I think Wilder and Soulknife have potential as Psionic classes. Wilders would be the sorcerers of the power source, and Soulknives... I dunno.
I have good evidence that the Wilder is dead as a class. Look at the Dark Sun Character sheets as proof for why there won't be a Wilder Class.
It could be the PP Psionic Striker.
Charisma dominant, and then Dexterity or Intelligence/Wisdom (not sure which would be).
Anyway, here's what I'd like to see for psionics:
A clairsentient build for the battlemind, perhaps even one that eschews armor. A defender that sees slightly into the future, so he knows just where to stand to absorb but avoid attacks.
A soulknife/nomad striker.
A true empath leader class or a ranged build for the ardent that encompasses the empath archetype. Remove some of the armor and weapon proficiencies, put some range on the powers, and you're there. I'd like to see a build that heals by harming opponents or absorbing pain, sangehirn style.
A shaper build for the psion class.
No more of those goofy halos in the art. Pick something else. Dorje, third eye, drilbu, anything. Bring back all the crystals in the art.
Psion: Also a very solid class both thematically, I do have issues with the PP system but I'm not going to hold that against any particular class.
Ardent: I think the Ardent has a ways to go, I would like to see it adopt the Wilder and even get some ranged mental attacks, just to give the concept a little more encompassing.
Battlemind: Same boat as Ardent, I would like to see it adopt Soulknife, and I would like to see it have a light armor build (like a variant class feature) so it can utilize all the speed stuff (I don't get why a class build based on speed wears heavy armor).
As for the other ones, Lurk and Shaper and such, I don't really see any classes there; the Lurk sounds like more a Psionic PP for any class trained in stealth. And I the Shaper as a much more appropriate Elemental class.
IMO the Psionic power source is fine class wise, those classes need some work, but just like Martial; it could have all it's bases covered in a mater of time.
I keep hearing kvetching about this halo thing. What gives? Is it really any sillier than any of the other "No, but really, these guys are PSYCHIC AND DIFFERENT" conceits they've used for psionics before? >.> I personally don't think so.
Yeah, but a lot of folks do personally think so. My only issue with it is that, as presented, it really makes them look like "Psionic X" characters. "I'm a Warlord - With a Halo!". Personally, I think it's just too same-ey.
I think the other power sources have had more distinct looks to them than just "Guy + Halo" - though really "Guy In Light Armor + Leaves or Fur" (Primal) isn't that different.
Matter of preference and all.
EDIT: And I liked the "crystal fetishist" look psionics carried with it in 3.X. I know a lot of folks didn't. *shrugs*
I'm somewhat disappointed with the battlemind, but then I'm only seeing half the class. It looks overly complicated, and the speedy powers feel out of flavor--why is a character in heavy armor flitting around the battlefield? I also don't like the ardent's melee specialization, since it's Psionic X, and the teleport-y powers feel out of flavor, like the mindlink power of the paladin. I'm not a fan of the pp mechanic, either.
Anyway, here's what I'd like to see for psionics:
A clairsentient build for the battlemind, perhaps even one that eschews armor. A defender that sees slightly into the future, so he knows just where to stand to absorb but avoid attacks.
A soulknife/nomad striker.
A true empath leader class or a ranged build for the ardent that encompasses the empath archetype. Remove some of the armor and weapon proficiencies, put some range on the powers, and you're there. I'd like to see a build that heals by harming opponents or absorbing pain, sangehirn style.
A shaper build for the psion class.
No more of those goofy halos in the art. Pick something else. Dorje, third eye, drilbu, anything. Bring back all the crystals in the art.
Can someone please tell me how mechanically you can pull off clairsentience? Unless the class has a class feature that makes the dm tell you the tactics for the next round how do you pull off the ability to see into the future? I agree it's a psionic archetype, but mechanically it is very difficult to pull off.
The ardent is the wilder, spontaneous developed emotion based powers, it just uses martial abilities to focus it's attention instead of a caster. It is also an empath, it inspires allies, and fears and such it's enemies. What more are you looking for? I would not be adverse to the taking pain on onesself angle however.
Can someone please tell me how mechanically you can pull off clairsentience? Unless the class has a class feature that makes the dm tell you the tactics for the next round how do you pull off the ability to see into the future? I agree it's a psionic archetype, but mechanically it is very difficult to pull off.
I think there are several ways to represent clairestience. I imagine there would be a lot of powers where you force the enemies to reroll attacks(indicating that you saw where their attack was going before they made it). On the same vein you could also have powers which increase our ref and AC. On the oppisite side, you could cause attacks to deal extra damage because you know how the enemy is going to dodge allowing you to adjust your attack to hit a vital spot(or just use rerolls again). Powers which allow you to shift when an enemy makes an attack(you saw it coming so you moved before hand). I'm sure there are other ways, but I think that is enough for now.
Can someone please tell me how mechanically you can pull off clairsentience?
Immediate Interrupts. Reflex and Armor bonuses. Granted powers with the "Trigger: the next time an enemy does ______". Conditional bonuses for "If the enemy goes here, it takes damage". Flat bonuses to die rolls, rerolling die rolls, or outright enabling you to say "The next dice roll will be treated as a ______."
I'd like to see the ardent fully absorb the empath archetype. Instead of healing by "inspiring" it could heal by transferring wounds instead. Perhaps its healing word actually damages enemies or, in lieu of that, the ardent itself. I'm essentially looking for a character more like a society mind & empath instead of a psionic X warlord. Right now I can't see a compelling reason to play the ardent or, to a lesser extent, the battlemind.
Halos are ridiculous. You don't look heroic in one, you look silly. Personal taste and all that, of course.
Can someone please tell me how mechanically you can pull off clairsentience?
Immediate Interrupts. Reflex and Armor bonuses. Granted powers with the "Trigger: the next time an enemy does ______". Conditional bonuses for "If the enemy goes here, it takes damage". Flat bonuses to die rolls, rerolling die rolls, or outright enabling you to say "The next dice roll will be treated as a ______."
Conditional bonuses isn't clairsentience, unless it's something that the moneter has to do. The reroll and stuff works, but how do you pull off the concept of "i'm standing in exactly the right spot", this is the part that everyone keeps talking about that makes no sense. Without knowing the dm's plans how do you know?
Clairsentience can be modeled as a +2 to this, +2 to that, reroll this and that and take the new result. Knowing something will happen doesn't always mean you can avoid it entirely.
I'd like to see the ardent fully absorb the empath archetype. Instead of healing by "inspiring" it could heal by transferring wounds instead. Perhaps its healing word actually damages enemies or, in lieu of that, the ardent itself. I'm essentially looking for a character more like a society mind & empath instead of a psionic X warlord. Right now I can't see a compelling reason to play the ardent or, to a lesser extent, the battlemind.
Halos are ridiculous. You don't look heroic in one, you look silly. Personal taste and all that, of course.
Hence why official art doesn't mean much at all. A class isn't defined by how they dress.
Even a Swordmage can wield a shield if he really wants to (it just might undermine some of his inherent abilities).
Seers can learn precognitive powers to aid their comrades in combat, as well as powers that permit them to gather information in many different ways.
The word that they should probably actually be using for this discipline is "Clairvoyance" (it's more of a catchall, including true clairsentience itself also also being open to including most if not all forms of precognition), but my point is that "Clairsentience" isn't all about precognition. It also encompasses retrocognition, clairvoyance, remote viewing, dowsing, psychometry, and so on, all of which can be made into great powers.
An easy example off the top of my head is a power that allows allies to ignore cover or concealment. Attack, damage, defense, and save bonuses for allies and penalties for enemies are all totally fair game as well, as are granting or forcing rerolls. Gaining Truesight would work well too, as would making enemies grant combat advantage or preventing allies from granting it when they normally would. Really, there are any number of things that you can do with "Clairsentience".
I'd like to see the ardent fully absorb the empath archetype. Instead of healing by "inspiring" it could heal by transferring wounds instead. Perhaps its healing word actually damages enemies or, in lieu of that, the ardent itself. I'm essentially looking for a character more like a society mind & empath instead of a psionic X warlord. Right now I can't see a compelling reason to play the ardent or, to a lesser extent, the battlemind.
Theoretically, it could. But it's going to need to drop the melee weapon requirement.
My primary annoyance with the ardent is that, after two leaders managed to be thematically and mechanically compelling with implement, melee, AND ranged weapon builds, it backslides into the "Guy who buffs allies by hitting with a stick" role.
Six out of seven leaders have melee builds, but the ardent is now the ONLY one who cannot do anything else. Even the warlord, through MP2, has ranged options. If they are going to try to make the Ardent contain all the empath concepts, they are going to need to get over the Melee requirement, because it is holding the class back. Sure, warlord got its ranged powers through a supplement. If they want the Ardent to broaden itself, it is going to need the same treatment, fast.
Conditional bonuses isn't clairsentience, unless it's something that the moneter has to do. The reroll and stuff works, but how do you pull off the concept of "i'm standing in exactly the right spot", this is the part that everyone keeps talking about that makes no sense. Without knowing the dm's plans how do you know?
You use the same mechanic the defender relies on, the "Damned if you do, damned if you don't."
So you might have a power, for example, that triggers off of the enemy attacking you. It they hit, you retcon the attack and slide away with an immediate interrupt, representing "I knew you'd do that, was escaping before you even started". At the same time, you have a secondary trigger if the attack misses, allowing you to strike, thus being "I knew you would fail, so I didn't even bother dodging and whacked you on the head."
I'd like to see the ardent fully absorb the empath archetype. Instead of healing by "inspiring" it could heal by transferring wounds instead. Perhaps its healing word actually damages enemies or, in lieu of that, the ardent itself. I'm essentially looking for a character more like a society mind & empath instead of a psionic X warlord. Right now I can't see a compelling reason to play the ardent or, to a lesser extent, the battlemind.
Theoretically, it could. But it's going to need to drop the melee weapon requirement.
My primary annoyance with the ardent is that, after two leaders managed to be thematically and mechanically compelling with implement, melee, AND ranged weapon builds, it backslides into the "Guy who buffs allies by hitting with a stick" role.
Six out of seven leaders have melee builds, but the ardent is now the ONLY one who cannot do anything else. Even the warlord, through MP2, has ranged options. If they are going to try to make the Ardent contain all the empath concepts, they are going to need to get over the Melee requirement, because it is holding the class back. Sure, warlord got its ranged powers through a supplement. If they want the Ardent to broaden itself, it is going to need the same treatment, fast.Conditional bonuses isn't clairsentience, unless it's something that the moneter has to do. The reroll and stuff works, but how do you pull off the concept of "i'm standing in exactly the right spot", this is the part that everyone keeps talking about that makes no sense. Without knowing the dm's plans how do you know?
You use the same mechanic the defender relies on, the "Damned if you do, damned if you don't."
So you might have a power, for example, that triggers off of the enemy attacking you. It they hit, you retcon the attack and slide away with an immediate interrupt, representing "I knew you'd do that, was escaping before you even started". At the same time, you have a secondary trigger if the attack misses, allowing you to strike, thus being "I knew you would fail, so I didn't even bother dodging and whacked you on the head."
That is something I will buy. Feels a little powerful though, and I don't know why.
Can someone please tell me how mechanically you can pull off clairsentience?
I believe the easiest way would be to allow you to change the square you you determine line of sight from.
Halos are ridiculous. You don't look heroic in one, you look silly. Personal taste and all that, of course.
Well I can see why someone might not like them, but I would like to point out that the concept of a halo related to psychic powers has been around for a while.
Wolverine and the X-Men uses then for both Erma Frost and Psylocke as well.
I read a telepath and shaper home brew that used "third eyes," gemstones that float over the center of the forehead (like with a Guild Wars elementalist). To me, that's in flavor for a psionic class. Interestingly, the telepath home brew class is a leader / empath with ranged powers, much as I think the ardent should be. I don't see the current ardent's mantles meshing with a ranged build, though.
I read a telepath and shaper home brew that used "third eyes," gemstones that float over the center of the forehead (like with a Guild Wars elementalist). To me, that's in flavor for a psionic class. Interestingly, the telepath home brew class is a leader / empath with ranged powers, much as I think the ardent should be. I don't see the current ardent's mantles meshing with a ranged build, though.
Wait, were those my versions of the classes? I stopped working on them once they started actually previewing the 4th Edition psionics, but as the release gets closer, I'm feeling more and more that I may restart them (since I'm not a fan, so far, of 2 out of 4 of the psionic classes), using the "power point and augment" system though.
Yes, I'm talking about your classes. WotC hasn't provided a shaper, so I've been using yours. I like your telepath/empath as well. If it leaned slightly more toward the society mind & empath side, it could even stand distinct from WotC's controller telepath.
After considering the current psionic classes (or rather, what we know of them), and finding that they (as of what we know) don't cover the concepts how I'd like to see them, I've found myself reconsidering what psionic classes I would have liked to have seen.
My Thoughts
First and foremost, I would have liked if they had avoided building a generic psionic class with a generic name - ie no "Psion" class.
As is, I'm a huge fan of the Monk class. I think it fits the power source extremely well, and I would prefer that it absorb the Soulknife concept (preferably via a build-neutral alternative class feature option).
I would have liked to have seen telekinesis given its own class. However, I understand that, because it's not a broad concept, WotC would probably have been stretched to fill it with material. Still, I would have prefered a Kineticist class as a second psionic striker (ranged; augmenting).
I would have liked to have seen telepathy remain its own class, or, alternatively, have the same class absorb the empathy concept as an alternative build. A Telepath as a psionic controller obviously makes sense, as does an Empath as a psionic leader. If they combined the two, I would prefer the emphasis be put on the leader role, but the telepathic flavor.
I don't mind the Battlemind. I have issues with some of its mechanics, but I feel like it's a fair translation of the Psychic Warrior. I would have liked, though, if they could have gone with a different name. I'm not sure what they could have used that covers the particular concepts included in the current Battlemind, but I favor Egoist (which actually matches the flavor extremely well), as it hails back to the XPH classes.
Finally, I would have liked (or perhaps would like, in the future) to have a final psionic class. I am extremely partial to the shaper concept of old, and keeping with my want to avoid the creation of a "generic" psionic class, I would have liked to have seen it remain a distinct option. The flavor of the shaper was, quite honestly, awkward. Drawing "ectoplasm" from the astral plane seems more out-of-step with the world than any of the other psionic concepts. However, I think there's a fairly easy way to preserve the mechanics (as a summoner) and concept (of creating things with one's mind from thought alone). I would have liked to have a Dreamshaper class - a character who is, effectively, a waking dreamer. The "creation" aspects of the class would be pure mental manifestations - as a normal being creates things in dream, the Dreamshaper creates things in the real world. This would allow for the "shaper" concept to be carried forward, while attaching (what I feel is) better, and more workable, fluff. My one strange idea with this class? Make it a second psionic defender - a pure caster defender, with a "pet" concept. To compare to existing concepts, I imagine something akin to a Shaman crossed with a Swordmage, with no weapons, and augmentable powers. Strange? Yes. Workable? I dare to think so. At the very least, the concept should have been able to work as a controller (if the "pet+no-weapon defender" pushes the role too much).
As is, I'm a huge fan of the Monk class. I think it fits the power source extremely well, and I would prefer that it absorb the Soulknife concept (preferably via a build-neutral alternative class feature option).
I would have liked to have seen telekinesis given its own class. However, I understand that, because it's not a broad concept, WotC would probably have been stretched to fill it with material. Still, I would have prefered a Kineticist class as a second psionic striker (ranged; augmenting).
I would have liked to have seen telepathy remain its own class, or, alternatively, have the same class absorb the empathy concept as an alternative build. A Telepath as a psionic controller obviously makes sense, as does an Empath as a psionic leader. If they combined the two, I would prefer the emphasis be put on the leader role, but the telepathic flavor.
I don't mind the Battlemind. I have issues with some of its mechanics, but I feel like it's a fair translation of the Psychic Warrior. I would have liked, though, if they could have gone with a different name. I'm not sure what they could have used that covers the particular concepts included in the current Battlemind, but I favor Egoist (which actually matches the flavor extremely well), as it hails back to the XPH classes.
Finally, I would have liked (or perhaps would like, in the future) to have a final psionic class. I am extremely partial to the shaper concept of old, and keeping with my want to avoid the creation of a "generic" psionic class, I would have liked to have seen it remain a distinct option. The flavor of the shaper was, quite honestly, awkward. Drawing "ectoplasm" from the astral plane seems more out-of-step with the world than any of the other psionic concepts. However, I think there's a fairly easy way to preserve the mechanics (as a summoner) and concept (of creating things with one's mind from thought alone). I would have liked to have a Dreamshaper class - a character who is, effectively, a waking dreamer. The "creation" aspects of the class would be pure mental manifestations - as a normal being creates things in dream, the Dreamshaper creates things in the real world. This would allow for the "shaper" concept to be carried forward, while attaching (what I feel is) better, and more workable, fluff. My one strange idea with this class? Make it a second psionic defender - a pure caster defender, with a "pet" concept. To compare to existing concepts, I imagine something akin to a Shaman crossed with a Swordmage, with no weapons, and augmentable powers. Strange? Yes. Workable? I dare to think so. At the very least, the concept should have been able to work as a controller (if the "pet+no-weapon defender" pushes the role too much).
Scince Psi has eaten Ki as a power source, I'd like to seem some other potential ki ideas re-branded psionic.
Namely, non-striker monks. At the risk of saying, "psionic defender", hand to hand guy who jumps into the crowd of thugs and takes them all on, or perhaps something more like a drunken master who keeps opponents off ballance (melee controller, like a druid sorta is) or maybe a psion who inspires his comrades by standing on one foot and kicking enemies in the face.
Or maybe instead of this, Psions need "discipline feats" similar to how fighters now have combat styles.
dunno.
Since Telepath and Telekineticist were wrapped into one class, I doubt such a thing would come into existance, given the existance of the Psion.
I don't think I -need- a Dreamshaper, since Ardent, Battlemind, and Psion all deal with dreams in different ways.
As for Empath? I'd like a non-melee weapon Ardent build, and I think then I'm good for that.