I know that Gamma World is designed to be a standalone system, but I also know that it is designed to fit the 4.0 rules and format. So, I was wondering if anyone knew whether or not the mutated characters created in Gamma might be playable in a regular DnD game?
If not, does anyone have thoughts on houserules that could make this possible?
I know that not much is out yet, but here's a link to how Character Creation is going to work in Gamma World.
A bigger question is why you want this in D&D. If you want to play a giant cockroach, rat swarm, or robot in D&D, then just create races for that. You could further look at any cards and origins and balance them. But the overall GW PC concept does not easily convert to D&D.
A bigger question is why you want this in D&D. If you want to play a giant cockroach, rat swarm, or robot in D&D, then just create races for that. You could further look at any cards and origins and balance them. But the overall GW PC concept does not easily convert to D&D.
Creating a new race in D&D is not the same as GW character. The GW character is more of a new race and class combined. I'm disappointed that this can't be done. While I'm not sure I would, I like to have that option. You could create a magic/technology mix world that could be very interesting.
It really depends on what you want to do. If you want the Barrier Peaks temporary scenario, you could provide crazy strong stuff and use charges so it all eventually goes away. Your encounters might need to be harder for a while to compensate.
You could also look at other systems. Compare SAGA to 4E for ideas on how to have a more technological system that permanently extends the options. Look at Fantasy Craft and Spycraft for ideas on a D20 mingling of weapons and modern rules. Those might give you ideas for how to make things work better.
GW is just really a super-fun campy system where the fun comes from the erratic nature. You really need to clamp down on the erratic to make it balanced... or deal with the imbalance (which would make your D&D game more campy and fun). That actually could work for Barrier Peaks, to be honest.
I don't mean to declare absolutes. You can use anything in anything to some extent, but some combinations will have strong effects on play. GW does not easily mix with D&D. The reverse is not as true.
Whenever I experiment with elements that might not mix well I try to have a bit of a fence around it. Barrier Peaks did this well. Then I also make it fairly clear to players that this is temporary and an experiment. The experiment can go on if we are all having fun, or end early. Also, as DM you can add or subtract things. Maybe everyone gains a mutation, but a session later it fades. Etc.
This has probably already been discussed, but will the GW characters, monsters etc. be added into the Character Builder and Monster Builder?
It was said in the preview that the Gamma World RPG is a seperate product and is not meant to be used with the regular D&D game. Specifically, the cards are completely incompatible.
Its too bad that's the route they went, because I think it will hurt sales. A Gamma World RPG that took itself a little more seriously, and was compatible with 4e D&D would be of interest to a lot more people, in my opinion... especially with 4e Modern/4e Future no where on the horizon.
As to how difficult it would be, there should be no concerns about the implementing technology, as it would be another type of power source. It may be tricky to represent different levels of technology, but they already have different levels of magic items.
Yeah, they pimped Gamma World to the CCG concept. It's not like it's the first time GW's been used to promote something else. The last version required you to buy d20 modern. The one before that, Alternity. The 3rd Ed of Gamma World represented an attempt to take the ACT system from MSH to 'core system status' - it failed, mercifully. For that matter, the closely related Metamorphosis Alpha was used to promote Amazing Engine.
There have been 7 editions of Gamma World, only three of them were /just/ Gamma World, not Gamma World being used as a marketing tool for something else.
Obviously marketing plays a big part in the decisions of any company, but can we at least pretend it's possible that the developers actually like their fans, and go to great lengths to design a product they think we'll really enjoy?
Does assuming The Man is out to steal your hard-earned dollar by conning you into buying games make you industry-savvy? Or just unhappy? Do I need a tinfoil hat to join this club?
From the perspective of someone who spends an inordinate number of his waking hours thinking about game design, adding a drawn card mechanic is interesting. Making them collectible in a non-competitive environment is doubly so. There is no reason to arbitrarily draw lines between different types of games: adding CCG elements to an RPG does not inherently dilute the concept of either. It makes even less sense to set up fortifications just to make sure none of the filthy cards get into your role playing game.
Don't like collectible cards in your RPG? Great! Want to make your stance known to the creators of the game? Fantastic idea! Assuming every attempt at innovation by game designers is a grab at your wallet and nothing more? Don't worry, the agents are converging on your position as we speak...
I think for those that like the previous Gamma World RPG, this will end up being fun. For those that see it as a conspiracy, one that introduces the evil cards into the RPG universe, I have a suggestion. Don't buy it.
The impression I got is that the Gamma World product is considered a separate product from the D&D brand
To be honest, if this is the case, I'd prefer they move the threads and commentary to a new forum, much like A&A , Magic and what not. And, while they are at it, get the articles out of Dungeon and Dragon magazines and quite wasting the content space.
I have no issue with the game on a whole, I understand it's separate, and it's not my cup of tea; but if they continue to list all of the stuff for it under these forums, and in the D&D magazines, it gives everyone the wrong impression and these questions will never cease.
Theres a reason it won't be in the CB or the AT, and while it's based on some remote connection to 4e, its not D&D.
To be honest, if this is the case, I'd prefer they move the threads and commentary to a new forum, much like A&A , Magic and what not. And, while they are at it, get the articles out of Dungeon and Dragon magazines and quite wasting the content space.
I have no issue with the game on a whole, I understand it's separate, and it's not my cup of tea; but if they continue to list all of the stuff for it under these forums, and in the D&D magazines, it gives everyone the wrong impression and these questions will never cease.
Theres a reason it won't be in the CB or the AT, and while it's based on some remote connection to 4e, its not D&D.
Well, it is called "Dungeons & Dragons Gamma World." And the only functional difference between it and D&D 4e is the method with which you generate characters. The entirely of the Rules Compendium, for instance, still applies to this game. Point of fact, you could run a GW character alongside D&D characters and the game would still function. It would simply require more from the DM as far as campaign planning (but no more than a mixed party of hardcore optimizers and hardcore non-optimizers).
That said, I don't care where the forum goes, so long as we get one soon. **
Additionally, DRA/DUN magazine content doesn't necessarily have "space" (unless they secretly set some sort of arbitrary content limit) and is based on what gets submitted. I'd be perfectly fine if Gamma World articles are put in some sort of new, separate magazine, but I wholly expect it to be part of my DDI subscription, since I pay for ALL D&D-related content.
** EDIT: I would prefer it remain under the D&D header, simply so that I'm free to make use of all the other 4e forums for my GW campaign planning.
For those that see it as a conspiracy, one that introduces the evil cards into the RPG universe, I have a suggestion. Don't buy it.
I have a counterproposal: buy the game, not the booster packs. GW has had it tough through most of it's history, no ed ever gets that many suplements - the 5th ed was cancelled before it hit the shelves, for crying out loud - other games pick on it and take it's lunch money. Have a heart, don't abandon this poor little mutant game just because WotC made it hold their stash.... :sniff:
For those that see it as a conspiracy, one that introduces the evil cards into the RPG universe, I have a suggestion. Don't buy it.
I have a counterproposal: buy the game, not the booster packs. GW has had it tough through most of it's history, no ed ever gets that many suplements - the 5th ed was cancelled before it hit the shelves, for crying out loud - other games pick on it and take it's lunch money. Have a heart, don't abandon this poor little mutant game just because WotC made it hold their stash.... :sniff:
Wanted to, but Thax is right.
After reading the previews so far I've gotten less interested in the game, NOT more interested.
So, I keep looking for stuff and maybe pick up a copy in three or Four years on E-bay.
For those that see it as a conspiracy, one that introduces the evil cards into the RPG universe, I have a suggestion. Don't buy it.
I have a counterproposal: buy the game, not the booster packs. GW has had it tough through most of it's history, no ed ever gets that many suplements - the 5th ed was cancelled before it hit the shelves, for crying out loud - other games pick on it and take it's lunch money. Have a heart, don't abandon this poor little mutant game just because WotC made it hold their stash.... :sniff:
I agree! I don't understand why so people would boycott the entire game because of the ccg portion?
I am still undecided to wether i will buy them or not, but if i choose not to I know that i will still have fun with what i get. Then again it may be a cool idea to get a few packs and have my players only play with the cards they open. I would only do that once or twice but think about how fun that randomness would be, no one would no what power they could pull next!
Why advise people to boycott the entire game because of the CCG portion, then?
Wanted to, but Thax is right.
After reading the previews so far I've gotten less interested in the game, NOT more interested.
So, I keep looking for stuff and maybe pick up a copy in three or Four years on E-bay.
And i get more interested. Sounds like lots of fun, cards and all.
I merely advised that if one does not like the product, you have the choice of not purchasing that product. I am not boycotting anything. Buy it. Don't buy it. It doesn't matter to me.
I am not getting it, but then again, I didn't get the first incarnations of the game either.
What I am questioning is why there is so much anger over the CCG aspect of the game, it is unique to the game, using the Mutation aspect with the cards.
The Fortune Cards are a different aspect to be used with the D&D brand, nothing to do with the Mutation cards in the Gamma World game, cept both are "cards."
What I am questioning is why there is so much anger over the CCG aspect of the game, it is unique to the game, using the Mutation aspect with the cards.
The Fortune Cards are a different aspect to be used with the D&D brand, nothing to do with the Mutation cards in the Gamma World game, cept both are "cards."
How about the fact that WotC has a history of testing new ideas in their side games? SWSE was a testbed for 4e, and GW could very well be a testbed for including cards in D&D. I don't have a problem with fortune cards (and neither does anyone else I know, including Cyber Dave who has been very vocal on this subject), because they are truly optional. GW style cards are not genuinely optional, and they have been revealed to be collectible in spite of past assurances that they aren't. So yes, some people react to this with anger, while others (like Dave and myself) rationally decide what to do with our discretionary income to acheive the outcome we desire: keeping collectible cards out of D&D.
Really, I have never played Gamma World myself. My main point was that it isn't "compatible" with the regular D&D brand and that the Mutation Cards are a part of the character in the game, unlike that Fortune Cards that are coming for the D&D brand.
Whether or not it is a test for future products, I really don't care. I tend to look at a product on it's own merits rather than stress on what influence it would have on other products or brands.
I merely advised that if one does not like the product, you have the choice of not purchasing that product.
So, you honestly believe that there are people able to operate a computer and read who were somehow unaware of that?
What I am questioning is why there is so much anger over the CCG aspect of the game.
I'm guessing it's mostly the first 'C.' Collectible cards are a really poor buy if you're trying to get some content for an RPG rather than an edge in a competative game (or just the thrill of collecting). If content is offered /only/ in that format, the serious RPGer has the choice to do without it, demand it in a different form, or abandon the product line as badly supported. The last, if done proactively and vocally would be a 'boycott.' :shrug:
Beyond that, M:tG /did/ spawn a certain amount of resentment in the RPG community that, for some, may well have festered into outright prejudice against CCGs in general.
I think there was some things taken from SaGa to use in 4th edition, but the only real mechanic that was lifted from it was the trained/suck aspect of the skills.
According to some developer comments from around 4th edition's release, Saga pretty much was what the (in development) 4th edition rules looked like at the time of Saga's release. Changes were made, but in a sense Saga was a testbed for the direction they were going with 4th edition.
Beyond that, M:tG /did/ spawn a certain amount of resentment in the RPG community that, for some, may well have festered into outright prejudice against CCGs in general.
Some? You could cut the resentment towards CCG players exuding off most PnP RPG players with a knife.
As to the OP:
Certainly the Character origins can be converted to character races or themes,
My instinct would be to make each character origin a partial race, with a few feats to make up the difference.
Then you combine two like a gamma world character.
I might also start a community feat database, for those who love feats.
Cynicism... overwhelming... Can't... type... sentences... without... ellipses...
Obviously marketing plays a big part in the decisions of any company, but can we at least pretend it's possible that the developers actually like their fans, and go to great lengths to design a product they think we'll really enjoy?
Does assuming The Man is out to steal your hard-earned dollar by conning you into buying games make you industry-savvy? Or just unhappy? Do I need a tinfoil hat to join this club?
From the perspective of someone who spends an inordinate number of his waking hours thinking about game design, adding a drawn card mechanic is interesting. Making them collectible in a non-competitive environment is doubly so. There is no reason to arbitrarily draw lines between different types of games: adding CCG elements to an RPG does not inherently dilute the concept of either. It makes even less sense to set up fortifications just to make sure none of the filthy cards get into your role playing game.
Don't like collectible cards in your RPG? Great! Want to make your stance known to the creators of the game? Fantastic idea! Assuming every attempt at innovation by game designers is a grab at your wallet and nothing more? Don't worry, the agents are converging on your position as we speak...
QFT
You don't have to buy boosters, you can use the DM deck, you can have all players pool cards, etc. just like you don't have to buy any of the expansions/adventures. If you WANT twenty more origins, yes, buy Famine in Fargo, if you do not, then don't. If you WANT a deck of specific powers, yes, buy some boosters, if not, then don't. Personally, I KNOW NONE of my players are going to buy even a single pack of boosters for GW, but I will, and I'll let them build character decks with the cards, aren't I a great dude? But come on, the core game comes with 80 cards AND a booster pack, if you are really so worried about The Man getting your money, I'm sure you can get by with that. Or, you know, just don't buy the game, Wizards might care, but I don't...actually, I doubt Wizards does care, because I think this game was marketed toward certain people, and I think we're all probably gonna be buying a copy and a few boosters while we're at it, cheers.
maybe, just maybe it'll be frikin Voltron.
Unintentionally ironic reference to the standalone Voltron game using a rules set of a collectible miniatures game?
You don't have to buy boosters, you can use the DM deck, you can have all players pool cards, etc. just like you don't have to buy any of the expansions/adventures.
If you like a game and you're fairly serious about it, wanting to pick up suplements is a natural enough thing. A suplement that added mutant powers or tech would be an obvious one. Though, actually, the former has never been done before, that I noticed, while the latter has(Treasures of the Ancients, for instance). Publishing a suplement as cards isn't even a bad idea. But distributing it /only/ in blind randomized packs is definitely not OK. It is an extremely bad distribution model for the RPGer who's just looking for content. Cards are a workable RPG component if they come with the game, come with a suplement, or are sold in complete decks. The CCG model works for competative games where the point of acquiring cards is to get an edge, or to enjoy the thrill of collecting. RPGs are not those sorts of games.
There is certainly overlap between the RPG and CCG hobbies. The hope of publishing an RPG with a CCG aspect is obvious: to tap into both markets. But, if the CCG aspect is pushed too hard - and the two-booster buy-in for Game Day may already be 'too hard' - it risks attracting /only/ the subset of players who already enjoy both, not the superset that it's aiming for.
It will be interesting to see just how it plays out. CCG+RPG may be Oil and Water, but maybe, just maybe it'll be frikin Voltron.
I highly doubt Gamma World is going to be a mega seller. Even if you don't mind the CCG aspect, Magic and other CCGs (or at least the successful ones IMHO) have interesting cards. In particular the artwork draws people in to try the game. WotC seems to have gone on the cheap side for Gamma World and not given any artwork. I think that decreases the chance of the cards being noticed and desired.
I think you're downplaying a lot of potential advantages that cards in a collectible format can provide a non-competitive traditional pen and paper role-playing game. I'd extrapolate, but I'm fairly certain you've made up your mind.
Again, if I understand the interviews correctly, packs will only be semi-randomized and semi-blind.
I think you're downplaying a lot of potential advantages that cards in a collectible format can provide a non-competitive traditional pen and paper role-playing game. I'd extrapolate, but I'm fairly certain you've made up your mind.
Please do extrapolate.
Because, I can clearly see some potential advantages to using /cards/. It's just the collectable aspect that seems entirely negative. TT RPGs generally strive for some level of balance and fairness, while competative CCGs very explicitly, as part of their apeal, grant some degree of advantage to the more avid collector. The two would seem incompatible at a basic level.
So, what would be the potential advantages to an RPG like Gamma World of selling expansion materials as (semi-?) blind/random 8-card packs vs putting the same content in a larger suplement or putting all the same cards in a complete deck.
So, what would be the potential advantages to an RPG like Gamma World of selling expansion materials as (semi-?) blind/random 8-card packs vs putting the same content in a larger supplement or putting all the same cards in a complete deck.
One advantage is that different gaming groups won't necessarily see the same mutations/tech and get tired of them. If we accept that the cards are just plain cool, and you don't need to have them all, then a random pack is fine.
Regardless, it isn't a big deal. I don't like the collectible aspect either, but it is a small issue.