The 3e5 books were so much better concerning this.
You did it for feats, why not with powers?
So please, at least for every new book with powers, give us a list/table of powers for each class.
Thanks
AKW
Still, the guy has a point...
He does. But the whole point of the Digital Initiative is to provide value, One of those values is the ability to search and list all powers by class. It used to be free in 3rd. Now it's part of a larger package. I know it sucks if you want something for free and you have to pay for it.
A table of powers would be really useful. A printable table of powers that's comprehensive across books would be even better. It would also be nice if it didn't have as many glaring problems as the feat table does
*Yeah, I know it's too late to actually have something like that added to AP. It's just an example.
Not saying that tables are a terrible idea, but I'm certain that the above situation will be very common as a result.
He does. But the whole point of the Digital Initiative is to provide value, One of those values is the ability to search and list all powers by class. It used to be free in 3rd. Now it's part of a larger package. I know it sucks if you want something for free and you have to pay for it.
Did it, where? The SRD only covered the PHB (pretty much.)
They put every single feat, equipment, race, PrC, everything in pdf tables.
They didn't have details, I recall only a few columns. Name, a few words, reference (Source and page number), and that's it. Their magic item list had level had a column too. It was awesome. PrCs had "earliest level possible" with all the classes listed (for skill/BAB prereqs). Awesome.
-SYB
The only realy useful power table would be one that references multiple books, but that would need to be digital or it quickly becomes obselete. Maby if they made the compendium listing free, with a sub required to read the data?
Did it, where? The SRD only covered the PHB (pretty much.)
The website gives consolidated lists for monsters, spells, invocations, feats, classes and prestige classes for 3.5
1) Each class gets its own table at the head of the Powers Section.
2) Each Table Entry Contains the Following:
a) Level
b) At-Will (These should head the Table), Encounter, etc
c) Stat Vs Def, Appropriate Keywords (Implement, Weapon, etc.)
d) Damage
e) Reliable, Damage on Miss, etc. (Simple Column Header, "y" or "n" indicator.)
f) Brief Summary of Effect - if summary is too long, "See Text, pg XX".
**Organize it Alphabetically By Level or By Level Alphabetically. Your choice. ;)
That's really all that's needed. It's not going to be able to tell you everything about a power. That's not what it's for, though. It's a summary sheet. Nothing more.
The only realy useful power table would be one that references multiple books, but that would need to be digital or it quickly becomes obselete. Maby if they made the compendium listing free, with a sub required to read the data?
Have you tried the Compendium? What you're asking for is exactly what the Compendium already is. You can search for whatever you'd like without a subscription and view the table entries. Full rules text is, however, only available to subscribers.
Go to http://ww2.wizards.com/dnd/insider/database.aspx to demo the Compendium.
The website gives consolidated lists for monsters, spells, invocations, feats, classes and prestige classes for 3.5
Ah, forgot that one. Maybe they can be persuaded to add a 4th edition version of it to the free part of the website.
I'd actually like to see a free version of the compendium which doesn't have any text, but just lists where things come from.
Ah, forgot that one. Maybe they can be persuaded to add a 4th edition version of it to the free part of the website.
I'd actually like to see a free version of the compendium which doesn't have any text, but just lists where things come from.
Gosh, wouldn't it be awesome if WotC had already given you exactly what you asked for?
Have you tried the Compendium? What you're asking for is exactly what the Compendium already is. You can search for whatever you'd like without a subscription and view the table entries. Full rules text is, however, only available to subscribers.
IC, I have never used it withough being being loged in, and for some reason though if you were loged out, it would list lvs 1-3 only. Like the char builder beta, Guess I should double check these things.
Gosh, wouldn't it be awesome if WotC had already given you exactly what you asked for?
Paint me blue, hang me in a tree, and call me a herring. I never thought to try the Compendium while I wasn't logged in to DDI.
Paint me blue, hang me in a tree, and call me a herring. I never thought to try the Compendium while I wasn't logged in to DDI.
Heh, I think this is what we're seeing. Those of us who have subscriptions are going "They really ought to do something for those poor non-subscribers, like letting them see the table data for the Compendium!" while the poor non-subscribers are going "Wow, this table data from the Compendium is cool!"
Gosh, wouldn't it be awesome if WotC had already given you exactly what you asked for?
Really doesn't fit the bill in my book; it doesn't say anything about what these powers do. Even with a subscription, you have to click on each link. You can't just say "Hm, which powers get benefits from using a polearm?" and skim through, and you certainly can't just skim looking for an idea of what powers you might like.
You can't just say "Hm, which powers get benefits from using a polearm?"
Sure you can, you use the search ox for polearm, and the resulting list are the powers that mention a polearm, which are going to like 90% of the time be ones with a bonus for using one.
and for skiming through looking for what powers you like, you are going to need ot read the full entries to figure that out, whicih are sorted so skiming them is faster. A table would be able to include is small details, and maby some fluff text, but you only need one when there is alot of info to look through or if it is unsorted.
Really doesn't fit the bill in my book; it doesn't say anything about what these powers do. Even with a subscription, you have to click on each link. You can't just say "Hm, which powers get benefits from using a polearm?" and skim through, and you certainly can't just skim looking for an idea of what powers you might like.
Tables wouldn't solve this, since no easily-readable table in the world could effectively convey all the information required to fully understand most powers.
As for searching for specific aspects of powers, as sjmcc13 said, that's what the search box is for. Searching.
He does. But the whole point of the Digital Initiative is to provide value, One of those values is the ability to search and list all powers by class. It used to be free in 3rd. Now it's part of a larger package. I know it sucks if you want something for free and you have to pay for it.
I'm a paying subscriber to DnD Insider, so that is not the problem.
It would be so much helpful to have some more lists/tables in the books to get a better overview.
They did it before, why not in 4e?
I don't want to have it digital, but PRINTED in the real hardware books (this stuff made out of paper).
And sure there won't be all the information in that table, but the power's level, name, some other stats and a short description would fit in there.
that's what I forgot to mention in my initial post.
the 4e indexes are so poor, please work on that too.
What might satisfy you is if all the powers were organized differently in the first place. Like a chart, I guess. Something like the feats where you could skim one particular column if you're looking for something special. It would totally change the feel of the book, but that's fine. I wasn't a big fan of the color-coded block format, anyway.
some info like target, range, [W] would fit into one row, so you could get all the encounters for one class on one page.
I would really like that.
and come on, the 4e indexes are really poor.
It would definitely help me.
some info like target, range, [W] would fit into one row, so you could get all the encounters for one class on one page.
I would really like that.
Martial Power. Level 3, rogue encounter attacks. This was just the first subsection I looked at.
You have Flamboyant Strike and Defender's Cohort. Both deal 2W + dex damage. Both target one creature. Both are melee attacks. On your table they'd be identical. You need to read the actual entries.
If the powers were listed off alphabetically, instead of by level within class, then tables would be required. as it is not, they are not needed, as all my options for a lv. X power from class X fit in a single column most of the time.
The only real use for a table would be as a cross reference tool, with brief info about the power, and where to find the power to read the full thing.
ItaraKoturo, but having at least that much information *would* be helpful. Why is it such a bad idea to consolidate the basics - attack vs defense, weapon or implement, bonus or penalty, and damage or [w]s. Would it somehow negatively affect the game to have this information consolidated?
It won't negatively impact the game, but it will certainly take up a lot of ink and pages (which we have to pay for, in case you missed that memo) essentially duplicating, in a less useful form, content already in the book. Seriously, by the time a power table includes enough information to be useful, it takes up almost as much space as the powers take up printed out normally.
I don't know about you, but I'd rather have more content, then use free digital tools to help with the organization. That's just me, though. I also write down book and page numbers for powers on my sheets (I use Shado's sheets, which have boxes for that).
ItaraKoturo, but having at least that much information *would* be helpful. Why is it such a bad idea to consolidate the basics - attack vs defense, weapon or implement, bonus or penalty, and damage or [w]s. Would it somehow negatively affect the game to have this information consolidated?
It's a matter of justifying that space being used by tables as opposed to more choices for players. I wouldn't be surprised if someone on the design team had considered reference tables for powers but decided they would ultimately require people to turn to the actual powers' descriptions anyway and instead decided to include another few pages of new powers or magic items.
some info like target, range, [W] would fit into one row, so you could get all the encounters for one class on one page.
I would really like that.
Why would you need all the powers for one class on the same page? Each level's powers are irrelevant to all the other levels. You aren't picking from the whole pool every time. I can see a desire for a more compact method of viewing the powers for any specific level but what you're asking for would be almost functionally useless. The whole power block is important information. I say that because flavor is so mutable now. You're no longer having to break your powers down into schools like with wizard spells. The only thing the power means in the stat blocks. You describe the scene however you like. There would never be a reason for you to cut down Blinding Barrage to "Close blast, 2[w] You throw broken glass." because it doesn't really mean that exclusively.
Spell lists in 3.5 were huge deals. You had the choice of like 30 damn spells at any given level. That definitely requires a reference. 6-8 powers per level like they have in 4e would just be a redundant waste.
I think it would be a great idea down the road when more and more splats are released and the number of powers for each level (which is the only relevant thing at a given level) but right now we shouldn't really go the way of spell lists when the lists are so short. We don't want to end up with another Tome of Battle. That was just a mess.
It's mostly a summary for my players and I to quickly see the available powers for a class at any level, from all of the sources that we currently have.
This means, as a 5th level fighter, I can choose a power from the PHB, Martial Power, or Dragon Magazine.
This sheet will just give you a rough idea of the power, not all the specifics. (Unless it's a very simple, melee-single-target-damage-only-type power, which there are a couple of).
I should be done in a week or so; it's taking a while, as you can imagine.
Book page counts are probably determined up-front by a business wing of the company that focuses on costs, projected sales, and the like. Every page devoted to tables like this, bigger indexes, and so forth is one less page of content. Not another page to pay for ...
oh come on, 4e books have such low quality concerning paper and ink, cost can't be too high! :D
I'm working on a spreadsheet to do this already. Will post it here when I'm done.
...
That would be great!
But IMO you're kind of doing WotC's job then...
...A table would be an add-on for quick reference. There would also need to be a brief summary of what the power does beyond damage. It's an aid, not a replacement.
yes, yes, and yes!
Example:
When I first got the 4e books, I was stunned by the amount of powers available, especially for warrior types (c'mon, before 4e we only had feats).
I was really impressed by the fighter's close burst attacks, so I was looking for the one table to show me with one look
which are the close burst powers for each level.
As you know, no success, cause there ain't no such tables!
Maybe some of you don't need these tables, but it looks like at least half of us would like to have these.
AKW
Even then, this would only be helpful if the tables were organized by level/type so that players could (at a glance) make gross comparisons between the At-Will/Encounter/Daily/Utility powers of X, Y, and Z class at A, B, and C levels.
It would also help if such a table was organized based on its level/type (AW, E1, D1, U2, E3 etc), role (defender, striker), and class (fighter, warden) - in that order.
For Example
That would be great!
But IMO you're kind of doing WotC's job then...
Their job is to create and sell us good content. If we want it presented in a certain way, then we do it ourselves.
Check out my website in the sig - I've been creating easy to use online content for people since I did Modern Heroes back in 2002 =J
I mean, it's not like they're going to reprint the OHB with tables in just because you ask nicely... but if you print out my spreadsheet, formatted how you like, filtered how you like, you can have whatever power tables you desire.