Based on the Dhampyr and the Deva Bloodline feats, it seems highly possible that the Half-Dragon will, if ever released, be done as a set of bloodline feats and an accompanying paragon path.
What do you guys thing?
Anyone caught word about the half-dragon coming out any time soon?
Based on the Dhampyr and the Deva Bloodline feats, it seems highly possible that the Half-Dragon will, if ever released, be done as a set of bloodline feats and an accompanying paragon path.
What do you guys thing?
It is possible, although, pardon the question, how would you see them differentiated from dragonborn?
It is possible, although, pardon the question, how would you see them differentiated from dragonborn?
I think it would be cool to play a Human that had a little Dragon in him. The same way I can play one that has a little Deva in it right now by taking Deva Heritage, I dont want to play a full Dragonborn or Deva just want a little splash of oddity to him.
Question: Would it be Half-Dragon, or Half-Dragonborn? Would the same Heritage feats be acceptable for both? I think so. I wanna keep the proliferation of new types of draconic humanoids to a minimum, because we're already reaching 3E's "elven subtype" levels here with these things.
Dragon Heritage
Prerequisite: Non-Dragonborn Living Humanoid
Benefit: You gain a +2 to Intimidate. The first time you become bloodied each encounter you gain use of the the following power.
Dragon Breath
As you open your mouth with a roar, the deadly power of your
draconic kin blasts forth to engulf your foes.
Encounter . Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Poison
Minor Action Close blast 3
Targets: All creatures in area
Attack: Strength + 2 vs. Reflex, Constitution + 2 vs. Reflex, or Dexterity + 2 vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + Constitution modifier damage.
Increase to +4 bonus and 2d6 + Constitution modifier
damage at 11th level, and to +6 bonus and 3d6 +
Constitution modifier damage at 21st level.
Special: When you take this feat, choose Strength,
Constitution, or Dexterity as the ability score you use
when making attack rolls with this power. You also choose
the power’s damage type: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or
poison. These two choices remain throughout your character’s
life and do not change the power’s other effects.
As you open your mouth with a roar, the deadly power of your
draconic kin blasts forth to engulf your foes.
Encounter . Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Poison
Minor Action Close blast 3
Targets: All creatures in area
Attack: Strength + 2 vs. Reflex, Constitution + 2 vs. Reflex, or Dexterity + 2 vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + Constitution modifier damage.
Increase to +4 bonus and 2d6 + Constitution modifier
damage at 11th level, and to +6 bonus and 3d6 +
Constitution modifier damage at 21st level.
Special: When you take this feat, choose Strength,
Constitution, or Dexterity as the ability score you use
when making attack rolls with this power. You also choose
the power’s damage type: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or
poison. These two choices remain throughout your character’s
life and do not change the power’s other effects.
I think it would be a single feat for all non-Dragonborn dragon decedents. One feat called something like
Dragon Heritage
Prerequisite: Non-Dragonborn Living Humanoid
Benefit: You gain a +2 to Intimidate. The first time you become bloodied each encounter you gain use of the the following power.Dragon Breath
As you open your mouth with a roar, the deadly power of your
draconic kin blasts forth to engulf your foes.
Encounter . Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Poison
Minor Action Close blast 3
Targets: All creatures in area
Attack: Strength + 2 vs. Reflex, Constitution + 2 vs. Reflex, or Dexterity + 2 vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + Constitution modifier damage.
Increase to +4 bonus and 2d6 + Constitution modifier
damage at 11th level, and to +6 bonus and 3d6 +
Constitution modifier damage at 21st level.
Special: When you take this feat, choose Strength,
Constitution, or Dexterity as the ability score you use
when making attack rolls with this power. You also choose
the power’s damage type: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or
poison. These two choices remain throughout your character’s
life and do not change the power’s other effects.
I think it would be a single feat for all non-Dragonborn dragon decedents. One feat called something like
Dragon Heritage
Prerequisite: Non-Dragonborn Living Humanoid
Benefit: You gain a +2 to Intimidate. The first time you become bloodied each encounter you gain use of the the following power.Dragon Breath
As you open your mouth with a roar, the deadly power of your
draconic kin blasts forth to engulf your foes.
Encounter . Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Poison
Minor Action Close blast 3
Targets: All creatures in area
Attack: Strength + 2 vs. Reflex, Constitution + 2 vs. Reflex, or Dexterity + 2 vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + Constitution modifier damage.
Increase to +4 bonus and 2d6 + Constitution modifier
damage at 11th level, and to +6 bonus and 3d6 +
Constitution modifier damage at 21st level.
Special: When you take this feat, choose Strength,
Constitution, or Dexterity as the ability score you use
when making attack rolls with this power. You also choose
the power’s damage type: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or
poison. These two choices remain throughout your character’s
life and do not change the power’s other effects.
It begs the question though, what do we do for Dragonborn who have a Dragon parent? Why exactly can't Dragonborn be Half-Dragons, when, say, Kobolds can?
the intent of this thread was not to make Half dragons it was to make a bloodline feat for other races that may have had some dragon blood in the past, say one of their great-great-greatgrand parents was a dragonborn/dragon.
Also I was just suggesting the Dragon breath power, and I dont see how it is so vastly over powered. Maybe change it to once per day, when you become bloodied.
-Nerp
the intent of this thread was not to make Half dragons it was to make a bloodline feat for other races that may have had some dragon blood in the past, say one of their great-great-greatgrand parents was a dragonborn/dragon.
Here's the OP:
Anyone caught word about the half-dragon coming out any time soon?
Based on the Dhampyr and the Deva Bloodline feats, it seems highly possible that the Half-Dragon will, if ever released, be done as a set of bloodline feats and an accompanying paragon path.
What do you guys thing?
The OP suggests that Bloodline Feats could be used to represent draconic heritage. However, it's disingenuous of you, Nerpherder, to say that the intent of this thread wasn't to suggest how to create Half-Dragons, when all the OP said is that Bloodline Feats were how he most likely sees it happening.
Anyway, that doesn't really matter. But you still didn't answer my question: Why can't Dragonborns have draconic heritage? They're "dragon-like" but they're not actually dragons, so I don't see why they should be disqualified, especially when you'd think Dragonborn would be the most likely humanoids for dragons to mate with.
Also I was just suggesting the Dragon breath power, and I dont see how it is so vastly over powered. Maybe change it to once per day, when you become bloodied.
There's a huge difference between "once per encounter, when bloodied" and "once per day, when bloodied", to the tune of the encounter version having the exact same effect but usable about three to five times more often each day.
Another important point is that it needs to be strongly distinct from the Dragonborn racial power; right now, AFAICT it's the same except only usable when bloodied. It's not that the power itself is bad or broken, it's the fact that if you're going to give away the most iconic ability of Dragonborn for the cost of a feat, why would anyone ever be Dragonborn? They'll be their favorite race, and take your feat to make themselves into a "Dragon-y Elf" or a "Dragon-y Goliath". It's important that the power granted be different. (My suggestion is not to try to make a breath weapon at all; maybe go with something more subtle like energy resistance, for example.)
FWIW, making this feat power a daily rather than an encounter power makes it a hell of a lot less broken already. It's not fixed, but it's better than before.
now I would say that having scales would have to be a requirement for having a Draconic bloodline feat...
with that said; Dragonborn, Kobolds, Lizardfolk, and any other scaled race could have access to it. Wouldn't that freak out your players to have a Kobold use a breath weapon???
in the Monsters manual it shows a Dragonborn with wings, there is a paragon path that does that for them... but what if that was also a bloodline feat...
These bring up some very good points, and I know this is not a "How to make a Half-Dragon" thread...
just putting a little 4e into it
Another important point is that it needs to be strongly distinct from the Dragonborn racial power; right now, AFAICT it's the same except only usable when bloodied. It's not that the power itself is bad or broken, it's the fact that if you're going to give away the most iconic ability of Dragonborn for the cost of a feat, why would anyone ever be Dragonborn? They'll be their favorite race, and take your feat to make themselves into a "Dragon-y Elf" or a "Dragon-y Goliath".
That was my point exactly, thank you.
That was my point exactly, thank you.
You're welcome!
In fact, I was elaborating upon what I had thought your (highly valid) point was. I guess I was right!
Wasn't there a setting that had half dragons in it? Birthright or something??
Council of Wyrms (which for the record I hope does NOT see a 4e incarnation)
now I would say that having scales would have to be a requirement for having a Draconic bloodline feat...
with that said; Dragonborn, Kobolds, Lizardfolk, and any other scaled race could have access to it. Wouldn't that freak out your players to have a Kobold use a breath weapon???
in the Monsters manual it shows a Dragonborn with wings, there is a paragon path that does that for them... but what if that was also a bloodline feat...
These bring up some very good points, and I know this is not a "How to make a Half-Dragon" thread...
just putting a little 4e into it
It is my opinion that outside of the draconic heritige feat all of the other "half dragon" bloodline feats (as well as related paragon paths) should be available to dragonborn much like how the other deva bloodline feats are available to deva. I think this would solve a little bit of the issue.
Wouldn't that freak out your players to have a Kobold use a breath weapon???
I know it's pretty much the opposite of optimal, but now I really really want to play a Kobolod Dragon Sorcerer.
Anyway I'd say 'Choose between Fire, Cold, Lightning, Poison, and Acid. once per encounter when you are first bloodied you gain resist 5 plus one half your level to that damage type until you are no longer bloodied'.'
As the basic bonus of the bloodline feat. Then have a further feat that lets you add that damage type to your attacks for a turn once per encounter and with additional damage.
I know it's pretty much the opposite of optimal, but now I really really want to play a Kobolod Dragon Sorcerer.
It's not "mechanically optimal", but it's certainly "thematically optimal", especially since 3E firmly established the direct link between Kobolds, Dragons, and Sorcerers.
I know it's pretty much the opposite of optimal, but now I really really want to play a Kobolod Dragon Sorcerer.
It's not terrible. Kobolds get Con and Dex, right? Well... wait. No, a chaos sorcerer would be decent. Nevermind, that would be pretty bad as far as optimization. But screw that!
At least the Con gives you a little more survivability I guess... which is nice with all the blasts... eh.
It's still a nice idea. If you got to level 29, you could be a kobold that turns into a dragon! THAT IS AMAZING! But then, anything that turns into a dragon is amazing. Especially a dragonborn. Or a dragon. Wait...
For PC's, I would simply say that you should use the Dragonborn as the "base race," and use the Revanant to kind of inform your decisions after that. You choose on additional race, and you are also a member of that race, in addition to being a dragon. Then, you take slightly modified versions of Revanant feats so that you can show flavor of your "base race."
If you just wanna show off slight signs of draconic heritage (ie, being less than half dragon), I think that is simply a fluff thing. Either multiclass/hybrid/be a Sorcerer, or something like that.
But I personally really hate the idea of "dragons can **** anything, and do so regularly" idea.
But I personally really hate the idea of "dragons can **** anything, and do so regularly" idea.
that puts them up there with gods... like Melora taking an interest in a male character... changing him to a woman and knocking him/her up!!!
the Dragonspawn fluff sounds like
Dragon + Human = Dragonborn
just my
that puts them up there with gods... like Melora taking an interest in a male character... changing him to a woman and knocking him/her up!!!
the Dragonspawn fluff sounds like
Dragon + Human = Dragonborn
just my
Tiamat leaves godlings lying around, right? Because the mechanics of Melora having babies seems unnecessarily complicated if she's gotta turn herself into a man, her (male) lover into a woman, and then undo it all after the baby is made, all so that she can avoid showing off her belly at deity parties. ...She's a goddess, right? Can't she just, like, make the baby pop out of her... forehead?
You know what? This god/baby-making is at least as nonsensical and complicated as demon-babies, devil-babies, and non-dragon dragon-babies.
Tiamat leaves godlings lying around, right? Because the mechanics of Melora having babies seems unnecessarily complicated if she's gotta turn herself into a man, her (male) lover into a woman, and then undo it all after the baby is made, all so that she can avoid showing off her belly at deity parties. ...She's a goddess, right? Can't she just, like, make the baby pop out of her... forehead?
You know what? This god/baby-making is at least as nonsensical and complicated as demon-babies, devil-babies, and non-dragon dragon-babies.
Didn't Zeus do the forehead thing once?....or was that his thigh?
And to be fair it did make some sense in previous editions for there to be non-dragon dragon-babies since dragons were able to polymorph more frequently. 4th edition maybe not quite as much. And come on, how can you say that god/baby-making is complicated. It isn't like they turn into the forms of swans or bulls in order to mate with humans.....oh wait right, Zeus. *sigh*:P
Didn't Zeus do the forehead thing once?....or was that his thigh?
And to be fair it did make some sense in previous editions for there to be non-dragon dragon-babies since dragons were able to polymorph more frequently. 4th edition maybe not quite as much. And come on, how can you say that god/baby-making is complicated. It isn't like they turn into the forms of swans or bulls in order to mate with humans.....oh wait right, Zeus. *sigh*:P
Folks must really have had lower standards then.
Folks must really have had lower standards then.
The water back then around there was generally considered unsafe. Everyone drank wine all the time.
The water back then around there was generally considered unsafe. Everyone drank wine all the time.
Hmm... Well, that explains why we all vacation in Mexico.
ooh, diefic dragonspawn come to mind... dragon egg infused with human blood... hmm... what about halfing blood instead!! Mini Dragonborn?? Kobolds??? hmm... who knows??
turning into an animal to fornicate with a human just sounds like something a medieval priest came up with, wait they did... called it bestiality... but thats what happens when you drank wine all the time!!
Didn't Zeus do the forehead thing once?....or was that his thigh?
Sort of. He ate Athena first when she was born because he was afraid she'd usurp him like he had done to his dad (His dad wanted to eat him too, but Athena didn't turn around and wage a war at Zeus. The god of gods is kind of a jerk >_>), and then after a while, he got a really big headache. A splitting headache. So his head split open, and Athena popped out fully grown and clad in armor.
Wow, greek myths are CRAZY. It sounds like a 3 year-old's idea of where babies come from.
Wow, greek myths are CRAZY. It sounds like a 3 year-old's idea of where babies come from.
lol It's not just the Greeks; just about every myth or religious belief sounds ridiculous if you describe it in the right (wrong?) terms -- and I say that as somebody with strong beliefs. In fact, learning to describe beliefs and practices in both familiar and unfamiliar ways is a fundamental exercise in anthropology, if you've never studied it. The classic example is from a short paper about the Nacirema tribe -- it's a really interesting read, if you've never seen it before.
I feel that Dragonkin bloodline feats should operate like the dragon sorcerer... and they should not have a breath weapon until paragon level...
Sort of. He ate Athena first when she was born because he was afraid she'd usurp him like he had done to his dad (His dad wanted to eat him too, but Athena didn't turn around and wage a war at Zeus. The god of gods is kind of a jerk >_>), and then after a while, he got a really big headache. A splitting headache. So his head split open, and Athena popped out fully grown and clad in armor.
Wow, greek myths are CRAZY. It sounds like a 3 year-old's idea of where babies come from.
Actually he hate Athena's mother while she was pregnant.
And Zeus' dad also killed HIS dad so it runs in the family. He had good reason to worry.
oops sounds like we went off on a tangent!!! we must really be gamers!!!
I feel that Dragonkin bloodline feats should operate like the dragon sorcerer... and they should not have a breath weapon until paragon level...
Still retains exactly what most people want from the half-dragon race/bloodline (awesome breath weapon) without completely negating the Dragonborn.
Instead of half-strength the breath weapon could be a standard action instead of a minor!
...But it still does the same thing a Dragonborn's breath weapon does. You haven't solved the problem...
Why does the breath weapon have to be anthing like the Dragonborn's? Why can't it be a ranged attack that hits only one target, it would look like Godzilla's breath. Encounter power, minor action, range 10 or so. Either has some lasting effect that persists until the end of your next turn or does a decent chunk of damage.
Still retains exactly what most people want from the half-dragon race/bloodline (awesome breath weapon) without completely negating the Dragonborn.
QFT.
Another possibility would be a Wall power, that would be pretty cool.
It would be cool, but it might not be thematic...
every time you use it, say more than once a day... there is a chance that you enter a greed filled rage, where you have to ingest treasure (coins)
or you might have to keep a certain diet to keep up the fuel for your breath
Actually he hate Athena's mother while she was pregnant.
And Zeus' dad also killed HIS dad so it runs in the family. He had good reason to worry.
Isn't Athena's mother Hera?
And I know he had good reason to worry! It's just that Zeus's kids are much nicer than he is, clearly.
or you might have to keep a certain diet to keep up the fuel for your breath
Only Chili Cheese Dogs.
Isn't Athena's mother Hera?
And I know he had good reason to worry! It's just that Zeus's kids are much nicer than he is, clearly..
No, Athena's mother was a nymph named Metis, one of Zeus's many seductions. Hearing that a son born of Metis would be greater than his father, and as she was near-term with Zeus's bastard child already, Zeus lured her to an isolated spot and ate her alive, to ensure neither she nor her child would be a threat to him. Afterwards, he suffered agonizing headaches, finally getting Hesphastus to split his skull with hammer and anvil in an effort to seek relief. Athena, fully grown and bearing arms and armor, sprang from from the wound.
It would be cool, but it might not be thematic...
It would still be a breath weapon, it would just be (for example) close wall 5. You could basically exactly replicate the 'line breath' power a lot of dragons had in 3.5. Half-Dragon's breath could be a focused beam that, once started, keeps going until it runs out of pressure. So they could hit multiple targets with it by moving their head around, resulting in the Line range.
It would still be a breath weapon, it would just be (for example) close wall 5. You could basically exactly replicate the 'line breath' power a lot of dragons had in 3.5. Half-Dragon's breath could be a focused beam that, once started, keeps going until it runs out of pressure. So they could hit multiple targets with it by moving their head around, resulting in the Line range.
Interesting use of the mechanic! I had thought you meant that they'd create a literal "wall" effect with their breath, which wouldn't be a totally new concept for dragons, but it's certainly towards the fringe. Still, I can just see the forums filling up with people who don't get it; "I want a Half-Dragon who breathes blasts of fire, not one who make walls!"