Prior to a little research, I had absolutely no idea what a Hengeyokai is or was, so I've taken the initiative to initiate the uninitiated as I school myself.
In AD&D2E, Hengeyokai were a race of shapeshifters who could take the form of an animal, a bipedal-humanoid-animal, and a human. There were twelve sub-races (Carp, Cat, Crab, Crane, Dog, Drake, Fox, Hare, Monkey, Raccoon Dog, Rat & Sparrow), all of which had associated attributes and clues to the animal form in the human's appearance (distinguishable features, hair color, etc). There were also alignment restrictions associated with the animal forms, ability score adjustments and other such AD&D traits that supported the fluff and crunch effect of the various forms. They are based on a group of mythological Japanese creatures that include a handful of anthropomorphic spirits.
I'm interested to see how they implement all of this, 4E style!
glad there's a new race, very curious about it. also a lil disapointed not to see vanara, nezumi and a full write up for kenku... the wait continues. i guess i'm still glad that we get anything at all this exciting.
I, too, would have preferred a full write-up for kenku; if only for the fact that it is entirely different from all of the currently available races.
Hengeyokai, depending upon the way it's implemented, has the possibility of being another half-supported Shifter re-hash. -- Got my fingers crossed!
Rule of Three states that Hengeyokai will be making a formal appearance as a new player race come October.
Prior to a little research, I had absolutely no idea what a Hengeyokai is or was, so I've taken the initiative to initiate the uninitiated as I school myself.
In AD&D2E, Hengeyokai were a race of shapeshifters who could take the form of an animal, a bipedal-humanoid-animal, and a human. There were twelve sub-races (Carp, Cat, Crab, Crane, Dog, Drake, Fox, Hare, Monkey, Raccoon Dog, Rat & Sparrow), all of which had associated attributes and clues to the animal form in the human's appearance (distinguishable features, hair color, etc). There were also alignment restrictions associated with the animal forms, ability score adjustments and other such AD&D traits that supported the fluff and crunch effect of the various forms. They are based on a group of mythological Japanese creatures that include a handful of anthropomorphic spirits.
I'm interested to see how they implement all of this, 4E style!
That was the list in 1e and 2e (the 1e Kara-Tur boxset also referenced tiger hengeyokai). An article in Dragon 266 introduced additional varieties, such as the badger, weasel, frog, lynx, owl, hawk, panda, and octopus. In 3e, the list changed as the drake was dropped and replaced by the badger and weasel.
I was hoping for Vanara, but the Hengeyokai is good enough me. Looking forward to this month, too bad it is so far away. More themes!
Feywild. You know what a hamadryad is, don't ya?
They could have given it the Dark Sun treatment, and changed it to fit the particular setting. Another missed opportunity to support something that is undersupported.
Redundant race. We already have the Changeling, which really needs support. This could have been a good way to do it.
They could have given it the Dark Sun treatment, and changed it to fit the particular setting. Another missed opportunity to support something that is undersupported.
Hengeyokai aren't much like Changelings. Changelings can change into any humanoid; Hengeyokai have precisely three forms. So, while your Changeling can be Dave, or Bob, or Mary, or Krusk, or Leglolas, the Hengeyokai can only be Dave The Human, Dave The Foxguy, or Dave The Fox.
Redundant race. We already have the Changeling, which really needs support. This could have been a good way to do it.
They could have given it the Dark Sun treatment, and changed it to fit the particular setting. Another missed opportunity to support something that is undersupported.
Hengeyokai aren't much like Changelings. Changelings can change into any humanoid; Hengeyokai have precisely three forms. So, while your Changeling can be Dave, or Bob, or Mary, or Krusk, or Leglolas, the Hengeyokai can only be Dave The Human, Dave The Foxguy, or Dave The Fox.
I don't know much about them. I just saw shapechanging race. It still could have been an interesting way to give them the Dark Sun treatment, imo. You know, sort of like the Becomer article, only good. :P
I don't know much about them. I just saw shapechanging race. It still could have been an interesting way to give them the Dark Sun treatment, imo. You know, sort of like the Becomer article, only good. :P
And now you know. And knowing is half the battle!
As far as 'the Dark Sun treatment' goes ... well, for me, that universally means 'make it suck', so I think not doing so is a good thing.
I was hoping for Vanara, but the Hengeyokai is good enough me. Looking forward to this month, too bad it is so far away. More themes!
Feywild. You know what a hamadryad is, don't ya?
Ummm... a hamadryad is pretty much described as a regular dryad. A hamadryas baboon is a baboon. I want my monkey folk!
I was hoping for Vanara, but the Hengeyokai is good enough me. Looking forward to this month, too bad it is so far away. More themes!
Feywild. You know what a hamadryad is, don't ya?
are hamadryads monkeys? i have to admit i dont know the significance of the (hama) part but im pretty sure a dryad is nothing like a vanara except maybe that they live in the forest.
as for adapting changelings to be hengeyokai? thats just silly. giving them a "darksun treatment" how do you picture that since the only change to any race in DS was either their name or culture and not actual rules... so a changeling (hengeyokai) is like, "oh ya i can change into anything but i was told to stick to these three forms"
hamadryas is a baboon! i'll assume that is a coincidence but if it turns out to be some kind of play on words and hamadryads turn out to be monkey/tree-folk i could deal with that.
Hamadryads aren't monkey/tree people. They are dryads that have the ability to leave the proximity of their tree, at least that's what they have been in older editions.
hamadryas is a baboon! i'll assume that is a coincidence but if it turns out to be some kind of play on words and hamadryads turn out to be monkey/tree-folk i could deal with that.
It is a type of baboon. It is also a genus of butterfly. It is a coincidence. And I still want my monkey folk!
As I said long ago I think Badger hengeyokai would be a perfect CON + INT race.
I would like to see a "Clever trickster" race power that lets you use INT in place of CHA for Bluff and instead of DEX for Theivery.
The Oriental Adventures/L5R spirit realms book has other D&D game mechanics for the traditional shapeshifters of Japan. ( Not that I expect modern WOTC to use stuff AEG wrote but it could be good for a homebrew)
Feywild. You know what a hamadryad is, don't ya?
A dryad made by Bucky O'Hare creator and G.I. Joe scribe Larry Hama?
Now I know...
... And knowing is half the battle.
... And knowing is half the battle.
COBRA!!!!
I look forward to seeing what we get either way. New races are always welcome in my book. As long as they stand well on their own, I can work around not having racial feats.
Rule of Three states that Hengeyokai will be making a formal appearance as a new player race come October.
Prior to a little research, I had absolutely no idea what a Hengeyokai is or was, so I've taken the initiative to initiate the uninitiated as I school myself.
In AD&D2E, Hengeyokai were a race of shapeshifters who could take the form of an animal, a bipedal-humanoid-animal, and a human. There were twelve sub-races (Carp, Cat, Crab, Crane, Dog, Drake, Fox, Hare, Monkey, Raccoon Dog, Rat & Sparrow), all of which had associated attributes and clues to the animal form in the human's appearance (distinguishable features, hair color, etc). There were also alignment restrictions associated with the animal forms, ability score adjustments and other such AD&D traits that supported the fluff and crunch effect of the various forms. They are based on a group of mythological Japanese creatures that include a handful of anthropomorphic spirits.
I'm interested to see how they implement all of this, 4E style!
Thank you for this. I too feel a bit more enlightened! Thanks to everyone else for adding to the info as well.
3e Hengeyokai had a Wisdom penalty; in 4e, they will have a Charisma bonus, as a few redone races have had their penalty scores 'converted' into a bonus to the other stat in the defense pairing. Their flex stat will be two of the physical ones (probably DEX and CON, as most Hengeyokai animals are small and thus STR seems unlikely).
Their ability scores will not change between forms, because having to recalculate big chunks of your character sheet in mid-combat sucks.
Idle speculation, because I can.
3e Hengeyokai had a Wisdom penalty; in 4e, they will have a Charisma bonus, as a few redone races have had their penalty scores 'converted' into a bonus to the other stat in the defense pairing. Their flex stat will be two of the physical ones (probably DEX and CON, as most Hengeyokai animals are small and thus STR seems unlikely).
Their ability scores will not change between forms, because having to recalculate big chunks of your character sheet in mid-combat sucks.
Seems like we already have one with the dead rat deserter theme.
It's got rat form, human form, and hybrid form.
Or mabey we can be carp/rat...
It would not shock me if the Hengeyokai end up being a reboot of the shifters from the ground up, and leaving the old Longtooth and Razorclaws to rot. At the same time, I more honestly expect the Henge will be reduced to one, perhaps 2 subtypes. Fox and Monkey make the most sense themeatically I suppose. I also imagine the pure human form will be off the table to help streamline them from a design perspective.
I'm hoping they won't include ALL of the subtypes, but more than two (4-5 sounds about right). I agree it needs to be a lot better implementation than the shifter, and using the genasi manifestation concept as a base can work.
I have seen an cartoon where a raccon spirit is called "dog spirit" by a human.
It seems Fox spirits grow extra tails and racoon spirits have heads shaped like dog heads.
Salla the CHA stat sounds good. They ARE trickster spirits after all.
I hpoe to see
Kitsune- Fox
Tanuki- Badger
and
Goku-Monkey
About the old Racoon-Dog from old OA-
I have seen an cartoon where a raccon spirit is called "dog spirit" by a human.
It seems Fox spirits grow extra tails and racoon spirits have heads shaped like dog heads.
Salla the CHA stat sounds good. They ARE trickster spirits after all.
I hpoe to see
Kitsune- Fox
Tanuki- Badger
and
Goku-Monkey
Tanuki is actually the raccoon dog, a canine native to most of Asia. In folklore they would often disguise themselves as monks or household objects such as a teapot. They were also described as having giant testes that they would drum on. Badgers are known as Mujina, though they were often used interchangeably depending on region.
Yeah, they were never called kitsune or tanuki in the past, and mujina was actually a completely different monster (kinda, sorta based off some Japanese myths though it was no badger) in BECMI D&D and AD&D.
Heck no he don't. Only thing honey badger care about is golden eagle. However, my inner hipster occasionally makes me an intolerable cracked.com reader.
Fixed.
Heck no he don't. Only thing honey badger care about is golden eagle. However, my inner hipster occasionally makes me an intolerable cracked.com reader.
Fixed.
Correct
3e Hengeyokai had a Wisdom penalty; in 4e, they will have a Charisma bonus, as a few redone races have had their penalty scores 'converted' into a bonus to the other stat in the defense pairing. Their flex stat will be two of the physical ones (probably DEX and CON, as most Hengeyokai animals are small and thus STR seems unlikely).
The converted bonus thing never occurred to me... interesting.
3e Hengeyokai had a Wisdom penalty; in 4e, they will have a Charisma bonus, as a few redone races have had their penalty scores 'converted' into a bonus to the other stat in the defense pairing. Their flex stat will be two of the physical ones (probably DEX and CON, as most Hengeyokai animals are small and thus STR seems unlikely).
The converted bonus thing never occurred to me... interesting.
It's not consistent, but it happens. Dwarves had a Charisma penalty, now have a Wisdom bonus. Half-Orcs had an Intelligence penalty, now they have a DEX bonus. Elves should have gotten a Strength bonus (hello, RANGERS), though, but didn't.
... And knowing is half the battle.
This thread is made of win.
Thank you for this. I too feel a bit more enlightened! Thanks to everyone else for adding to the info as well.
Happy to be of service.
-- completely late, but I just caught this response.
Which means that Dex + Wis/Cha is at least as likely as Cha + Dex/Con.
The issue with, "They had a Wisdom penalty before," is that it comes up against the WotC design philosophy of, "This race has at least some vague association with 'nature'. Therefore it shall have a Wisdom bonus." Which means that Dex + Wis/Cha is at least as likely as Cha + Dex/Con.
Unless they decide that they're fae.
Unless they decide that they're fae.
True, but at least they all don't automatically have the crap BAB and Fort they had in 3rd Ed! But, hey, maybe the upcoming satyr in the Heroes of the Feywild will have a Con bonus, to reflect their virility and throbbing emotions.
True, but at least they all don't automatically have the crap BAB and Fort they had in 3rd Ed! But, hey, maybe the upcoming satyr in the Heroes of the Feywild will have a Con bonus, to reflect their virility and throbbing emotions.
"Throbbing emotions" required more than one double-take. 
Not that I would.
...Who the hell am I kidding, of course I would.
Am I the only one who foresees players using this as an excuse to create anime-style characters for D&D? Like catgirls and kitsune?
Not that I would.
...Who the hell am I kidding, of course I would.
We still can do this in 4th Ed (or any previous edition for that matter), despite the tragic dumping of the Ki power source (no attitude intended).
Am I the only one who foresees players using this as an excuse to create anime-style characters for D&D? Like catgirls and kitsune?
Not that I would.
...Who the hell am I kidding, of course I would.
No.
Mine are going to be full-on furries, though. None of this ears-and-tails-on-a-person crap.
hamadryas is a baboon! i'll assume that is a coincidence but if it turns out to be some kind of play on words and hamadryads turn out to be monkey/tree-folk i could deal with that.
It is a type of baboon. It is also a genus of butterfly. It is a coincidence. And I still want my monkey folk!
You already have monkey folk... they're called "humans."
Humans are apes, not monkeys.
hamadryas is a baboon! i'll assume that is a coincidence but if it turns out to be some kind of play on words and hamadryads turn out to be monkey/tree-folk i could deal with that.
It is a type of baboon. It is also a genus of butterfly. It is a coincidence. And I still want my monkey folk!
You already have monkey folk... they're called "humans."
Humans are apes, not monkeys.
Exactly but a monkey race could be ahem small, have a climb speed of 6 and be no less balanced than the pixie.
1) Ending a movement adjacent to a foe, then returning to hybrid or humanoid form under his legs, flipping him over. Mechanically, it's a free action when you move at least 2 squares and end adjacent to a foe. You then shift to humanoid/hybrid form and make an attack versus Reflex to knock prone and deal a small amount of damage. We don't yet have racial powers that knock prone, do we?
2) Move action to transform to animal form and shift your speed. You scurry or fly beneath your foe's feet.
3) Death From Above! For flying hengeyokai only. Pretty obvious, and again, only really useful for meele oriented characters.
4) Sudden transformation. Immediate interrupt to transform to animal form when being attacked, causing a really good chance of being missed. Maybe a penalty to the attack and resistance against the damage if it hits, or a penalty to the attack and the attacker grants combat advantage. They're thrown off guard as their target is suddenly 5 feet shorter than a moment ago.
Damn. I really wish they had an encounter power. I could see so much for taking advantage of shapeshifting. I've got an idea or two, though they're less general. Maybe a feat to gain a free encounter power. Not the norm, but it's an off-the-wall idea, and my ideas seem more like learning tactical use of transformation than general. If the race is close to balanced, I like the idea of taking a feat to represent learning a specific use of your transformation. Examples:
1) Ending a movement adjacent to a foe, then returning to hybrid or humanoid form under his legs, flipping him over. Mechanically, it's a free action when you move at least 2 squares and end adjacent to a foe. You then shift to humanoid/hybrid form and make an attack versus Reflex to knock prone and deal a small amount of damage. We don't yet have racial powers that knock prone, do we?
2) Move action to transform to animal form and shift your speed. You scurry or fly beneath your foe's feet.
3) Death From Above! For flying hengeyokai only. Pretty obvious, and again, only really useful for meele oriented characters.
4) Sudden transformation. Immediate interrupt to transform to animal form when being attacked, causing a really good chance of being missed. Maybe a penalty to the attack and resistance against the damage if it hits, or a penalty to the attack and the attacker grants combat advantage. They're thrown off guard as their target is suddenly 5 feet shorter than a moment ago.
ya I was thinking of something like a move action to use a movement mode you can normily only use in animal form.
keep i mind that that you cant shift when burrowing (little known and annoying rule)
Still, we are doing and Oriental Adventures delve this weekend with a bunch of pre-mades, and I am tossing together several Henge for fun :D
Still, we are doing and Oriental Adventures delve this weekend with a bunch of pre-mades, and I am tossing together several Henge for fun :D
Let me know how they play!
Well, I rolled out as a Hengayokai Hare Sentinel for the delve night. Sadly, we had a much more limited player pool than we hoped for, but I wanted to get him in there. :D He was fun to RP for certain, lots of fun quirks, and during an extended rest, I assumed Hare form, and our Dragonborn had to roll will saves to avoid eating me. :D Lots of fun!
I still echo the feeling they need a proper encounter power. While I had a lot of lore and fluff fun, I didn't really have much I could contribute to the fight itself from a racial standpoint. Tossing ideas with my fellow players, we figure something like a minor action control power based on animal in any form could be fun:
Hares and Badgers kick dust at the enemy (Blinded), Carp get an escape (Slippery), Monkey or crane get a slide (Kung fu action), something long those lines.
The only other critique I had would be to consolidated the separate origins into a single feature, just for tidiness. It's a huge wall of rules text with not much to say. But that's prolly not really much of a concern.
I had a lot of fun with him, and I hope to roll one full time if we go into a full OA campaign