Shadows of Destiny
Everyone's destiny is different. Although your fate is tied closely to the fortunes of your companions, your path is unique.
Talk about this Preview here.
Nice picture though.
WotC designers, this epic destiny is insufficiently epic. As a make-up assigment, I want a three to five page report from each of you on why the Thief of Legend is so awesome.
EDIT: And of course forum eats my post.
I find it funny that the little blurb says "your path is unique" this ED generally requires to have someone else in the party with it as well to be 'cool'. I suppose you could have NPCs who are part of the group for it, but even then its kinda, blah. It also feels a bit shoehorning story-wise, yet at the same time doesnt do anything cool to really help one "embrace" its suggested story, or even make it cool for poaching and re-fluffing.
I'm also not a fan of level 30 ant-death features. So many EDs have them at 24, and many others get something really cool at level 30. It seeing use is also much less likely, making it feel like a kinda dead feature. The Dark Wanderer had this issue too, but atleast its level 24 was freaking awesome.
This isn't anywhere near in the league of Thief of Legends, which is what EDs SHOULD be.
Does regeneration stack? Otherwise it also behaves kind of funny with vampires.
Nope.
If regeneration stacked, you could easily gain Regeneration 60.
The level 21 Necro Resist and Regen aren't a good reason to remove the second +2 to an ability score, and the tribal feat style system... for such unimpressive bonuses... really really not worth picking up.
This isn't anywhere near in the league of Thief of Legends, which is what EDs SHOULD be.
What are you talking about "second +2 to an ability score"?
The level 21 Necro Resist and Regen aren't a good reason to remove the second +2 to an ability score, and the tribal feat style system... for such unimpressive bonuses... really really not worth picking up.
This isn't anywhere near in the league of Thief of Legends, which is what EDs SHOULD be.
What are you talking about "second +2 to an ability score"?
Some EDs that lack really nice mechanics give a second +2 to an ability score.
I know that. But he makes it seem like they all do. It's just not clear.
A significant number of them do, and I expect that those which do are more popular than those which do not, since it provides a strong mechanical advantage and usually enhances one's core build.
I know that. But he makes it seem like they all do. It's just not clear.
A significant number of them do, and I expect that those which do are more popular than those which do not, since it provides a strong mechanical advantage and usually enhances one's core build.
But that doesn't mean that is a requirement for all EDs to have two. Though I agree that it doesn't have the most unique mechanics, it still works just fine.
But that doesn't mean that is a requirement for all EDs to have two. Though I agree that it doesn't have the most unique mechanics, it still works just fine.
It's basically a measuring stick. "Is this ability worth losing a +2 to an ability score?"
But that doesn't mean that is a requirement for all EDs to have two. Though I agree that it doesn't have the most unique mechanics, it still works just fine.
It's basically a measuring stick. "Is this ability worth losing a +2 to an ability score?"
You assume that they were intended to have a second +2. There are plenty EDs that only give one. Additionally, I would think that resistance 15 Necrotic (a very common damage type) and regenerate 5 while bloodied is equivalent to a +2 in a secondary stat.
But that doesn't mean that is a requirement for all EDs to have two. Though I agree that it doesn't have the most unique mechanics, it still works just fine.
It's basically a measuring stick. "Is this ability worth losing a +2 to an ability score?"
You assume that they were intended to have a second +2. There are plenty EDs that only give one. Additionally, I would think that resistance 15 Necrotic (a very common damage type) and regenerate 5 while bloodied is equivalent to a +2 in a secondary stat.
No, it isn't. A +2 to an ability score affects so very much. Regen 5 at epic is pitiful, and the resist to necrotic is only really useful if you face a lot of stuff with necrotic. Common as it may be, it is not as good as a +2 to an ability score.
But that doesn't mean that is a requirement for all EDs to have two. Though I agree that it doesn't have the most unique mechanics, it still works just fine.
It's basically a measuring stick. "Is this ability worth losing a +2 to an ability score?"
You assume that they were intended to have a second +2. There are plenty EDs that only give one. Additionally, I would think that resistance 15 Necrotic (a very common damage type) and regenerate 5 while bloodied is equivalent to a +2 in a secondary stat.
Regen 5 is very easy to get, and doesn't have much of an effect on an epic-level encounter, and Resist 15 Necrotic only when bloodied isn't really that great at Epic, either. They're not useless, certainly, but they aren't especially impressive and are easily replicated with items.
But that doesn't mean that is a requirement for all EDs to have two. Though I agree that it doesn't have the most unique mechanics, it still works just fine.
It's basically a measuring stick. "Is this ability worth losing a +2 to an ability score?"
You assume that they were intended to have a second +2. There are plenty EDs that only give one. Additionally, I would think that resistance 15 Necrotic (a very common damage type) and regenerate 5 while bloodied is equivalent to a +2 in a secondary stat.
Regen 5 is very easy to get, and doesn't have much of an effect on an epic-level encounter, and Resist 15 Necrotic only when bloodied isn't really that great at Epic, either. They're not useless, certainly, but they aren't especially impressive and are easily replicated with items.
Wouldn't that be an item tax? Items are much harder to come by than taking an ED. You can't depend on your DM giving you what you want, you can ask but that doesn't mean squat.
But that doesn't mean that is a requirement for all EDs to have two. Though I agree that it doesn't have the most unique mechanics, it still works just fine.
It's basically a measuring stick. "Is this ability worth losing a +2 to an ability score?"
You assume that they were intended to have a second +2. There are plenty EDs that only give one. Additionally, I would think that resistance 15 Necrotic (a very common damage type) and regenerate 5 while bloodied is equivalent to a +2 in a secondary stat.
Regen 5 is very easy to get, and doesn't have much of an effect on an epic-level encounter, and Resist 15 Necrotic only when bloodied isn't really that great at Epic, either. They're not useless, certainly, but they aren't especially impressive and are easily replicated with items.
Wouldn't that be an item tax? Items are much harder to come by than taking an ED. You can't depend on your DM giving you what you want, you can ask but that doesn't mean squat.
True, but the common armor in heroes of shadow has an armor that is resist 15 necrotic, or you could play a race that gives resistance to necrotic that does not need for you to be bloodied.
Wouldn't that be an item tax? Items are much harder to come by than taking an ED. You can't depend on your DM giving you what you want, you can ask but that doesn't mean squat.
Potions are merely uncommon and a Potion of Regeneration 5 is a 160gp level 9 item. It does cost a surge, but if you're that desperate for at most 30HP in a typical encounter... you'll get a free surge if you use the +2 on your Con score, and all the side benefits of a higher Con. A conditional resist against necrotic is really not that great unless you're constantly dealing with undead and those undead all use necrotic and only necrotic and you don't have one of the many ways to gain different resists on a per-encounter basis.
A +2 to an ability score is much more precious. +1 to a defense, +1 to skills, +1 to whatever special effects your ability gives you, +1 to any class abilities tied to it. An ability has to be quite impressive to beat it.
But that doesn't mean that is a requirement for all EDs to have two. Though I agree that it doesn't have the most unique mechanics, it still works just fine.
It's basically a measuring stick. "Is this ability worth losing a +2 to an ability score?"
You assume that they were intended to have a second +2. There are plenty EDs that only give one. Additionally, I would think that resistance 15 Necrotic (a very common damage type) and regenerate 5 while bloodied is equivalent to a +2 in a secondary stat.
Regen 5 is very easy to get, and doesn't have much of an effect on an epic-level encounter, and Resist 15 Necrotic only when bloodied isn't really that great at Epic, either. They're not useless, certainly, but they aren't especially impressive and are easily replicated with items.
Wouldn't that be an item tax? Items are much harder to come by than taking an ED. You can't depend on your DM giving you what you want, you can ask but that doesn't mean squat.
True, but the common armor in heroes of shadow has an armor that is resist 15 necrotic, or you could play a race that gives resistance to necrotic that does not need for you to be bloodied.
That can be said of many EDs. Heck there's a common armor that gives you resist 15 fire and necrotic. But it's not helpful if you're someone that isn't proficient with chainmal of heavier. I'm just saying it averages out. An extra point on your modifier (+2 to an ability score) works out on average to resistance and minor regen while bloodied. Obviously it is situational in its usefulness, but everything is.
But that doesn't mean that is a requirement for all EDs to have two. Though I agree that it doesn't have the most unique mechanics, it still works just fine.
It's basically a measuring stick. "Is this ability worth losing a +2 to an ability score?"
You assume that they were intended to have a second +2. There are plenty EDs that only give one. Additionally, I would think that resistance 15 Necrotic (a very common damage type) and regenerate 5 while bloodied is equivalent to a +2 in a secondary stat.
Regen 5 is very easy to get, and doesn't have much of an effect on an epic-level encounter, and Resist 15 Necrotic only when bloodied isn't really that great at Epic, either. They're not useless, certainly, but they aren't especially impressive and are easily replicated with items.
Wouldn't that be an item tax? Items are much harder to come by than taking an ED. You can't depend on your DM giving you what you want, you can ask but that doesn't mean squat.
True, but the common armor in heroes of shadow has an armor that is resist 15 necrotic, or you could play a race that gives resistance to necrotic that does not need for you to be bloodied.
That can be said of many EDs. Heck there's a common armor that gives you resist 15 fire and necrotic. But it's not helpful if you're someone that isn't proficient with chainmal of heavier. I'm just saying it averages out. An extra point on your modifier (+2 to an ability score) works out on average to resistance and minor regen while bloodied. Obviously it is situational in its usefulness, but everything is.
How so? That +2 to an ability score gives your attacks that much more lilkelihood to hit, does more damage, makes it easier to pass skill checks, affects your defenses (two if you choose int/dex). The armor that gives resist to necrotic is always on. If you were desperate for regen, you could play a shifter.
It would give you an increased likelihood to hit, if you used it to bolster your primary. Which you should have done with the first +2. It only helps damage if you have a specific class feature that adds secondary stat modifiers to damage. It gives you a +1 to skill checks, and defenses. All of this can easily be made up for with feats. Yes the armor that grants necrotic resistance works all the time, but if you aren't proficient with that type of armor you either won't use it or choose to take the penalty for wearing it anyway. You aren't desperate for regeneration, it's icing on the cake.
The +2 to a secondary stat would also help you if you play a hybrid.
It would give you an increased likelihood to hit, if you used it to bolster your primary. Which you should have done with the first +2. It only helps damage if you have a specific class feature that adds secondary stat modifiers to damage. It gives you a +1 to skill checks, and defenses. All of this can easily be made up for with feats. Yes the armor that grants necrotic resistance works all the time, but if you aren't proficient with that type of armor you either won't use it or choose to take the penalty for wearing it anyway. You aren't desperate for regeneration, it's icing on the cake.
The +2 to a secondary stat would also help you if you play a hybrid.
That's just as situational as the Necrotic resistance. I'm not saying that this ED is useful to everybody, I'm just saying it useful.
That said, if I may, Hatta -
No, not every destiny is among the demigod family. It's not an assumption of destinies at all. But a destiny that isn't of that family needs to have some pretty increadible abilities to hold any interest by comparison.
This destiny wouldn't hold much interest even if it did get two score boosts. The other benefits are just too bland and unimpressive.
And it's the blandness that's the real killer. These abilities simply aren't evocative of the destiny's fluff. They're just too boring and generic. I know not everything can be the thief of legend, the greatest epic destiny ever printed. At least, from a thematic perspective - although the mechanics are still quite impressive.
But they could at least try. This just feels . . . half hearted. Disinterested. Dull. Hopefully the other destinies pick up the slack. Destinies are hard to design, if there's only one or two really neat destinies in this book I'd still consider it pretty successful on that front.
Fellows, fellows, please now. If you're going to debate one another, please quote only the specific points you're replying to, not the entire dialog to that point!
That said, if I may, Hatta -
No, not every destiny is among the demigod family. It's not an assumption of destinies at all. But a destiny that isn't of that family needs to have some pretty increadible abilities to hold any interest by comparison.
This destiny wouldn't hold much interest even if it did get two score boosts. The other benefits are just too bland and unimpressive.
And it's the blandness that's the real killer. These abilities simply aren't evocative of the destiny's fluff. They're just too boring and generic. I know not everything can be the thief of legend, the greatest epic destiny ever printed. At least, from a thematic perspective - although the mechanics are still quite impressive.
But they could at least try. This just feels . . . half hearted. Disinterested. Dull. Hopefully the other destinies pick up the slack. Destinies are hard to design, if there's only one or two really neat destinies in this book I'd still consider it pretty successful on that front.
It's not terrible in my opinion, particularly as you really aren't "required" to take an Epic Destiny at all. Is it awesome, not really. Does the fluff and mechanics mesh well, not particularly. Is it unique, nope. But does it give you something useful, it sure does. Its a whole lot better if you have the entire party take it, which is alluded to in the fluff text.
It makes her more of an Unaligned deity, rather than Evil all but in name.
It's not terrible in my opinion, particularly as you really aren't "required" to take an Epic Destiny at all. Is it awesome, not really. Does the fluff and mechanics mesh well, not particularly. Is it unique, nope. But does it give you something useful, it sure does. Its a whole lot better if you have the entire party take it, which is alluded to in the fluff text.
Even then it's not that compelling.
It's just not 'epic', and as an epic destiny that just leaves it kind of flat.
It's not terrible in my opinion, particularly as you really aren't "required" to take an Epic Destiny at all. Is it awesome, not really. Does the fluff and mechanics mesh well, not particularly. Is it unique, nope. But does it give you something useful, it sure does. Its a whole lot better if you have the entire party take it, which is alluded to in the fluff text.
Even then it's not that compelling.
It's just not 'epic', and as an epic destiny that just leaves it kind of flat.
It's epic enough for this country bumpkin, though I have a theatre background so I can make even folding laundry seem epic.
These are just more of the same with the "Shadow" coolness facter thrown in to somehow make them seem better.
My main problem with PP and ED is that they are level dependant (The start of the new "Tier"). The removal of PrC's in favor of a smattering of a few new powers at certain levels from a PP or ED was not a good move in my mind. I was hoping the DS like Themes would have been opted to be avialble at any level provided requirements were met. I also was hoping that some expanded class PP and ED could be introduced in a future product, the augmented class type stuff.
These are just more of the same with the "Shadow" coolness facter thrown in to somehow make them seem better.
That was necessary. They had to remain the same, or the people who are yelling "IT'S 4.5!" would be crapping themselves.
Some ideas of Shadowfell eds: An ED where vampirism is cured as the immortality or improved aka Golgonda.
Shadow Dragon where you become a Shadow Dragon. Got that idea from everflows cool pic.
Fell Scuptor one where your power over shadow grows so great that you create new species of shadowfell creatures and change the geography of the shadowfell to your whim like a dark gaia.
Megawraith where you absorb thousands of spectral undead to become an powerful undead entity.
Multiversian where you use connections in the Shadowfell to travel between universes.
True Love where you scour the shadowfell searching for the soul of your one true love so you can be reunited. Cheesy but sweet.
Avatar of Vice a Shadow/Divine ed for Blackguards.
Darklight- Where you bring greater light to the Shadowfell and redeem the place as a paradise.
Demilich- Self Explainatory
Servant of the Fallen- Where you restore a dead god to life, drawing his soul from the shadowfell and into his body in the astral plane.
An ED for the Underdark. Not sure what that would be.
Vryloka King- rebuild your races kingdom using the power of the Shadowfell.
Prince of Shade- Ruler of Netheril
Sand King- Destroyer of Netheril
Spirit of Darkness- A powerful primal spirit of the Shadowfell.
Enthropic Principle- You because so attuned to the Shadowfell that you are an extension of its hunger, your mere presence in another plane starts converting parts of that plane into Shadow stuff and ultimately into Shadowfell.
Shadowdealer- You now grant shadow pacts to other beings.
Vestige- Your existance by level 30 snaps and you become a legendary vestige.
There are many other ideas that don't involve RQ.
Oh well no big deal, at least there is a lot of stuff I do like in HOS.
My main problem with PP and ED is that they are level dependant (The start of the new "Tier"). The removal of PrC's in favor of a smattering of a few new powers at certain levels from a PP or ED was not a good move in my mind. I was hoping the DS like Themes would have been opted to be avialble at any level provided requirements were met. I also was hoping that some expanded class PP and ED could be introduced in a future product, the augmented class type stuff.
These are just more of the same with the "Shadow" coolness facter thrown in to somehow make them seem better.
See, I like the the tier structure. I also like the themes. I think they both have there place.
But that doesn't mean that is a requirement for all EDs to have two. Though I agree that it doesn't have the most unique mechanics, it still works just fine.
It's basically a measuring stick. "Is this ability worth losing a +2 to an ability score?"
You assume that they were intended to have a second +2. There are plenty EDs that only give one. Additionally, I would think that resistance 15 Necrotic (a very common damage type) and regenerate 5 while bloodied is equivalent to a +2 in a secondary stat.
I agree.
The Guardian's Recovery is definitely Essentials influenced. Does go well with having a Shadowfell heavy based campaign and the party mostly takes the Guardian of the Void paragon path. Since my group mostly does delves of any level every other week, I'll have to start on them for creating a 12th level party delve using this paragon path and solely Heroes of Shadow.
It's an Epic Destiny actually. Those 12th level characters would have to be 21st level.