Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mudbunny Mar 16, 2011 20:42:50	From wizards.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/... 1. Will there be anything in the Heroes of Shadow that’s useful to older characters, created from earlier books? Yes!  There are a number of powers, feats, items and paragon paths useful to characters created from many different 4th edition sources.  Here’s an example of a power that could be quite interesting to a cleric created from the original Player’s Handbook… (See the link for the power)
#2 askanipsion Mar 16, 2011 21:29:53	Ugh that power is NOT good - it only has 1 hit point?? They could have given it at least hps like a summoned creature.
#3 Plaguescarred1 Mar 16, 2011 21:40:23	Wow its hell of a Power. If you Raise an Elite Brute, it can do some carnage even if it has only 1 HP.
#4 malisteen Mar 16, 2011 21:46:55	Don't know what I think of that.  1hp means it probably won't last long, but no express duration limit means it could last the rest of the campaign.  And there's nothing stopping you from casting it again tomorrow, slowly collecting an army of fragile dominated dolls. It's weird.  It's probably not good, but it's still pretty interesting. . . . also: insert standard rant on wanting new shadow classes, not support for other, non-shadow classes, pre-e or otherwise.
#5 askanipsion Mar 16, 2011 21:53:48	1hp means it probably won't last long, Wow watch that squirrel kill that undead minotaur in ONE bite!
#6 malisteen Mar 16, 2011 22:00:49	Since when can squirrels even cause HP damage?  And even if they could, I don't see dropping an undead minotaur in one bite to be any more ridiculous then dropping an abyssal ghoul or lich vestige in one bite. The power creates a minion.  Minions have one hit point.  They're mechanical abstractions meant to be used in encounters against adversaries of approximately the same level. Doesn't make the power any better mechanically, but complaining about the abstraction that 1hp minions represent is so two years ago. Notably: unlike a summon, there's no hardcapped duration limit on the minions created by this power.  They last until they die.  That's interesting at least, even if it isn't good.
#7 askanipsion Mar 16, 2011 22:11:02	but complaining about the abstraction that 1hp minions represent is so two years ago. I didn't know there was an expiration date on griping about something -  Make sure you tell the Ki Power Source people that too Sure you can come up with creative ways to use it  but as a Daily I find it lackluster. In all the campaigns I have played in, we don't use minions as we think the idea of them is just silly.
#8 malisteen Mar 16, 2011 22:16:42	My campaigns have made much use of them.  Having 'weak enemies' that are mechanically stripped down so as to be faster to run and that also have level appropriate attack, defence, and damage scores is very helpful in my games, much as it's useful to have 'elite' and 'solo' boss monsters that have HP, action, and damage pools equivalent to multiple normal monsters, but still have level appropriate attack and defence scores.  Otherwise 'weak monsters' might as well be left out, as they can't hit the party to do anything to them, don't pose any thread, but still eat up a monster's worth of time and DM attention, while powerful monsters create frustration with their unhittable defenses. But that's just me.  I admit the abstraction took some time and deliberate mental effort to get past. But regardless, if you game bans npc minions, then it should likewise ban PC abilities that create minions, meaning this power should hardly be worth commenting on for you.
#9 askanipsion Mar 16, 2011 22:27:00	But regardless, if you game bans npc minions, then it should likewise ban PC abilities that create minions, meaning this power should hardly be worth commenting on for you.  Since I am the only one who ever seems to play clerics in my campaigns, I don't think we ever will use the power. We do have alot of players who summon regular summons. I DO like the new Wiz/Mage spells that have summons that last the whole day. I am sure minions can be used well in other groups but never seemed to be liked by DMs or players in the ones I was in. Another thing we house rule: a divine character gets their deity's Channel Divinity power free along with weapon proficiency in their deity's chosen weapon.  I am a long time player of DnD so I miss the specialized clerics they used to have so we incorporated some of that flavor back into 4E. So far most of the HoS previews I have liked....but this power just seems "meh" to me but that is just me.
#10 omegaphallic Mar 16, 2011 23:03:59	Ranged caster could make a good minion if you keep the enemy from it. it is only a level five power. It might not be great, unless you can find ways to keep it alive. I think thp or damage reduction or resistance could work.
#11 calronmoonflower Mar 16, 2011 23:12:44	Ugh that power is NOT good - it only has 1 hit point?? They could have given it at least hps like a summoned creature. If you did it that way, how you balance out a solo monster that you kill after exposing it to the power? As it is it allows you to build an army of undead minions and a number of people have been asking for that ability.
#12 FrozenWastes Mar 17, 2011 10:50:02	It's actually a really strong power.  With it you can: block movment spaces flank provide a source of opportunity attacks dish out good damage absorb one blow meant for a PC I know more and more monsters get damaging move and minor action attacks and auras in the Paragon tier, but if the monster ends up eating a standard action, then it's totally worth it.
#13 omegaphallic Mar 17, 2011 11:44:47	The auras are a good point. They don't take any actions to use after the minor action to restore it and they are usable at will.
#14 frothsof Mar 17, 2011 14:36:12	are there any strength cleric powers is the question, of course theres warpriest powers. that being said i like the power
#15 lokiare Mar 17, 2011 14:37:50	I can just see some cleric player saying: Player "Ok, we're here for a month right?" DM "Yeah, why?" Player "Ok, each day I use this power until I have 30 minions"
#16 mellored Mar 17, 2011 15:06:11	Hmm... What happens if you use it on a troll... Edit: Hmm... it can't heal... but it's not dead...
#17 Silver_Blaze Mar 17, 2011 15:11:20	Hmm... What happens if you use it on a troll...  One word: Sidekick.
#18 Duskweaver Mar 17, 2011 16:28:41	Hmm... What happens if you use it on a troll... Edit: Hmm... it can't heal... but it's not dead... I would interpret "cannot heal" as "cannot benefit from any power or effect with the 'healing' keyword" (otherwise, it's a pretty damn vague restriction). The troll's 'Troll Healing' trait has the 'healing' keyword, so would not function while it was under the effect of Servitude In Death.
#19 ShinQuickMan Mar 28, 2011 20:32:24	Kinda late, but I just wanna point out that this power is not underpowered at all. In fact, it's one of the most broken things in 4e history (or perhaps even D&D history). Here's a shameless self promotion of my topic in Char Op showing why it is so: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... ... or if you're too lazy to go over there, here's a sysnopsis: - The shortcomings of the Servitude in Death power can be overcome with Temp HP. - Characters who have means of giving temp HP based on surge value make this especially abusable, particularly if used on creatures that started with a large max HP value (such as elites and solos); artificers do this with ease. - There's no limit on how many monsters you can have dominated by this power at a time; since these dominated monsters have their own turns and require no action to maintain, this breaks the action economy normally imposed on the pcs. - Monsters with ongoing special properties and at-will enabling abilities give pcs enormous boosts in effectiveness in line with class features; this includes granting attacks, rerolls, and situational regeneration. - Some monsters have attacks that permanantly dominate other creatures. Gaining control of this type of monster will give the pcs access to an exponentially larger number of dominated creatures, each without healing restrictions. - Mosters raised by this power are allies of the pcs; should their domination end, those monsters will never turn on the pcs willingly at the very least, or become an even less restricted willing ally in battle at the very most.