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| #1tbok1992Sep 13, 2011 2:35:43 | Well, I brought up the idea of a "heroes of the Far Realm" book as an idea that I'd love to see done in the vein of other "heroes Of" books (Heroes of the Feywild, Heroes of the Shadowfell, Heroes of the Elemental Chaos) in another topic, and I was wondering, what would you want to see if they ever made said book. Here are my ideas: Far Realm Mutant: A new class based on the idea of a character being warped into a horrific form by the Far Realm's influence and using those powers in battle. it would be highly influenced by films like Society, Tokyo Gore Police, Tetsuo The Iron Man and the entire body of work of David Cronenberg. Powers would involve things such as melting one's skin to escape a creature's grip, vomiting up a cloud of razor blades, turning one's eye into an organic gun that shoots malignant tumors, weeping blood that spawns grotesque monsters, that sort of thing. Madness Ardent: An ardent build with powers all revolving on some degree of insanity such as hallucinations, paranoia, violent rage, deep depression, etcetera, implied to be acquired by the Far Realm itself whispering in the character's brain. Blasphemous Artificer: An artificer build with a definite mad science inspiration, that powers its devices using the insane physics of the Far Realm and uses its maddening structure for their design inspiration. Their powers are typical B-Movie SCIENCE! type stuff, but with a deep, disturbing wrongness about them. Aberration Druid- A druid build with a focus on summoning aberrant plant and animal life. Good ones believe that, while the Far Realm must be closed off from the world, the current aberrant creatures can and must be integrated into the ecosystem. The others want the Far Realm to conquer all in a wave of mind-shredding horror. New Player Races: The Grell would be neat, mainly due to the fact that they have actual appendages and their racial motive of "the world is a smorgasboard, we might as well enjoy it" can easily lead to good and neutral goals as much as it can to evil ones. Plus it would be fun to play as a character who's motivation is "I want to deep-fry and eat the Tarrasque!". Also, it would be neat to be able to play as a fishy former-Aboleth-Servant-race (Who can't be called Skum due to that name referring to something else now), who escaped from Aboleth captivity and have now sworn vengance against them, with racial utility powers based on some of the nastier aspects of sealife (Think Octopi, Anglerfish, Lobsters, Sea Anemones, etcetera). But, this is just my far-more-than-two-cents. What would your ideas be for a "Heroes of the Far Realm" book? |
| #2EisenritterSep 13, 2011 14:25:30 | Neogi. I had a writeup for them awhile back. ![]() |
| #3sallaSep 13, 2011 14:33:06 | "Heroes" of the "Far Realm" is an oxymoron. |
| #4tbok1992Sep 13, 2011 15:39:44 | I get what ya mean Salla, but I was thinking more in the realm of "Making lemons out of horrible mind-shattering lemonade" type heroes. That is to say, heroes who have been touched and tainted by the Far Realm but are trying to use said unholy powers for good (Maybe even to shut the Far Realm out of the World for good for some respite from their madness) even as it slowly erodes away their sanity. Epic level play with these sorts of characters would be interesting, as they would either be strong willed enough to use the power with out it completely corrupting them by that point or almost gone to the realm's madness with but the barest hint of sanity guiding them along. Hey, White Wolf uses these themes as their bread and butter, so why not WoTC? |
| #5Omnirahk_half-RahkshiSep 13, 2011 19:24:17 | Ooh, I like the idea of a druid trying to integrate current aberrations. As for races, if you check the Races and Monsters board, I've got the updated B'er'den race, a beholder-touched race. I altered the fluff to be an escaped servitor race that's hunted down by their former masters. Paranoia is important, because their hunter's eyes are many. Anyway, as far as a Far Realm mutant class goes - that's a lot like the Spellscarred mutliclass only class from Forgotten Realms (hmm, both are FR). Down to the deeply disturbing mutations. Just cut out the blue flame. |
| #6raptor112Sep 13, 2011 19:28:17 | Well, I brought up the idea of a "heroes of the Far Realm" book as an idea that I'd love to see done in the vein of other "heroes Of" books (Heroes of the Feywild, Heroes of the Shadowfell, Heroes of the Elemental Chaos) in another topic, and I was wondering, what would you want to see if they ever made said book. Here are my ideas: I like all of that stuff. Though I always figured that a subclass of Artificer would be the mad scientist. I wouldn't mnd seeing something like all these sugestions. Though the book might be called Player's Options: Powers of the far realm. |
| #7egg_thallid_sandwichSep 14, 2011 4:55:21 | i don't understand the appeal of playing something way out there like an illithid, grell or neogi. being from a race that eats brains or enslaves people creates trust issues between players. for players who like to roleplay it could be a game killer to always have to act like you dont trust your team mate might eat your brain or at least thinks of you as his trusty thralls. haveing said that i do really love the far realm and a hero with a touch of madness could be cool. i did like the madness ardent idea. madness themed powers for the psion/telepath could be cool. i agree on the spellscared theme from neverwinter, it would make a good mutant but a new far realm mutant theme could be possible. one that changes your origin to aberant. i dont see it as a class though. i dont see any races. actually i think i read someone in one of the feywild threads said it was going to be the last official source for new races. gona have to check on that. correct me if i'm wrong. |
| #8XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsekSep 14, 2011 5:23:18 | I wouldn't mind seeing a Half-Farspawn theme. It could be someone who was implanted with an Illithid egg but something went wrong and the person didn't fully mutate. Maybe even a Starlock gave birth to a half-farspawnbecause of the pact that was made. |
| #9Steely_DanSep 14, 2011 11:55:22 |
All interesting ideas, but this is the one that I am most intrigued by, as I have been thinking about a Druid that specialises in standing against the Far Realm, the whole Primal Spirits vs. Giant Octopi. Maybe it could be a Druid subclass with the Primal and Psionic power source (since they are now designing classes with more that 1 power source, like some are speculating the upcoming Witch might be Arcane and Primal). |
| #10the_ubbergeekSep 14, 2011 21:22:37 | Actually, Eberron have more or less that already Steely Dan - the Gate something druidical sect, i think; they fight against the corruption of nature and Eberron from... the Madness realm, i think. It could easily be Poled and expended it there, though. |
| #11Omnirahk_half-RahkshiSep 14, 2011 22:45:05 | Actually, Eberron have more or less that already Steely Dan - the Gate something druidical sect, i think; they fight against the corruption of nature and Eberron from... the Madness realm, i think. Gatekeeper druids, defending against the Xoriat, the Plane of Madness. |
| #12raptor112Sep 14, 2011 22:52:55 | Its ashame WOTC won't touch any other time period but base D&D. I could easily see mixing the works of Mary Shelly, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and H.P. Lovecraft in a Player's Option: Powers of the Far realm book. I mean mad science, mystery and investigation along with Lovcraftian Horrors would be awesome in 4E D&D. |
| #13the_ubbergeekSep 15, 2011 1:16:16 | Its ashame WOTC won't touch any other time period but base D&D. I could easily see mixing the works of Mary Shelly, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and H.P. Lovecraft in a Player's Option: Powers of the Far realm book. I mean mad science, mystery and investigation along with Lovcraftian Horrors would be awesome in 4E D&D. D&D don't mix well with advanced tech, some may say - look at all this old debate about (early) guns in D&D... |
| #14Kalex_the_OmenSep 15, 2011 5:16:04 | I don't think such a book should be made. I prefer the Far Realm to be unknowable, and to change natural creatures that come in contact with it to gibbering madmen irredeemably. If heroes use the power of the Far Realm for good, the Far Realm becomes knowable and far less scary IMHO. |
| #15warfteinerSep 15, 2011 7:50:38 | Well, I brought up the idea of a "heroes of the Far Realm" book as an idea that I'd love to see done in the vein of other "heroes Of" books (Heroes of the Feywild, Heroes of the Shadowfell, Heroes of the Elemental Chaos) in another topic, and I was wondering, what would you want to see if they ever made said book. Here are my ideas: "Heroes of the Far Realm" The term itself brings to mind marauding, battle-scarred and trophy-laden aboleths and illithids. So in that vein... I want to see it! Would be a great monster sourcebook similar to the Lords of Madness stuff in 3.5 For PCs, I would love to see a "Scars of the Far Realm" player option book. Perhaps include crippling feats (feats that give a penalty to something in order to boost something else), madness rules, Far Realm-touched class and racial utility powers and substitute traits. It would be neat to see some new races and such but really, the Far Realm is an inscrutable place of alien methodology and goals so terrifyingly alien that most mortal's heads would explode from simply considering the implications of such machinations. ;) |
| #16CyvarisSep 15, 2011 10:15:18 | Its ashame WOTC won't touch any other time period but base D&D. I could easily see mixing the works of Mary Shelly, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and H.P. Lovecraft in a Player's Option: Powers of the Far realm book. I mean mad science, mystery and investigation along with Lovcraftian Horrors would be awesome in 4E D&D. When I run Eberron thats basically how I run it. Lots of steampunk tech, lots of eldrith abominations and lots of bizzare investigations. |
| #17VestrasSep 15, 2011 11:36:05 | Good start for certain. Contributing a few ideas: Monstrous Warforged Subrace - Frankenstein's Monster in player form. Shadow/Constructs with feat support to count as undead or alive as well. Fartouched race of corrupted PC races: For those in the M:TG lore, think of the Rathi races. Corruption Warlock (or Corrupter Subclass): Controller which works how the binder should have. Tons of Grab attacks and psychic assaults to cripple foes. Warper Psion Subclass: Adds more teleportation powers and lingering aftereffects to their attacks. Also, some transmogrification spells to really twist enemies into knots. Aberrant Companion Beasts: A new set of rules to give a character a corrupted pet, doing more DPR but at some price to their masters. Rules for Druid, Sentinel, Beast Masters, and such. Maybe some summonable ones as well. |
| #18hunterian7Sep 15, 2011 12:24:58 | Cancer Mage |
| #19hunterian7Sep 15, 2011 12:27:59 | "Heroes" of the "Far Realm" is an oxymoron. Who cares! It's a cool concept and question. |
| #20Steely_DanSep 15, 2011 13:01:25 | Cancer Mage 3rd Ed BoVD? |
| #21hunterian7Sep 15, 2011 13:09:43 | Cancer Mage Yeah. A terrible book, one of the worst from 3rd edition, but that the prestige class Cancer Mage always stuck with me. It would fit the far realm, corrupting the flesh of enemies. I'd name it something other than cancer Mage though. |
| #22raptor112Sep 15, 2011 19:13:06 | When I run Eberron thats basically how I run it. Lots of steampunk tech, lots of eldrith abominations and lots of bizzare investigations. Sounds like my kind of game! Wish I was in it! Good start for certain. Contributing a few ideas: A Frankenstein's Monster Warforged would great, but I think you could do that with refluffing (and maybe a few new feats to boot). I like the idea of maddness touched PC's and Corruption Warlock. Warper Psion? That I'm not too sure about. I did have an idea for a Telepathy Psion refluffed as a psychologiest, that would "mess with an enemies head" and psychological tricks on friend and foe alike. Never got to play it though. |
| #23mysticpizzaSep 16, 2011 4:01:49 | Heroes of the far realm sounds cool. I like these ideas! |
| #24incenjucarSep 16, 2011 21:50:24 | In 4th edition, the Far Realm is also the vengeful trash heap of the Dawn War; deities tend to throw horrible horrible things there to "discard" them, and then they come back more powerful and twisted than ever. Plenty of room for stories and character concepts based on that. Say a race that gets discarded by an angry deity and then develops into its own thing. |
| #25egg_thallid_sandwichSep 18, 2011 22:35:53 | isnt there a far realm summoner PP? something that with that feel for herois tier would be cool. i think a hero can draw on power from the far realm and still not know didly about it. in a game of mine a made it so one of my player's warlock patrons was actually a far realm entity. she was dark pact not star but i fluffed it differently for story purposes, she didnt object. i gave her horific prophetic dreams she actually enjoyed it. she only knew what i told her in the dreams thus the far realm was still very much a mystery. |
| #26calronmoonflowerSep 19, 2011 0:22:54 | Rules for taint, mental and physical. Subverted psion build. Illithid class. |
| #27raptor112Sep 20, 2011 14:11:34 | Personally here is what I'd want to see if they made a PC book about the far Realm: Player's Options: Powers of the far Realm Themes of madness: It would deal both the role playing themes having to do with maddness, and Character Themes such as psycholgeist, Occult Investigator, Mad Prophet, and Far Realm Touched. Races of Maddness: Ok I don't have much of an idea for this, the original poster mentioned far realm mutant which sounds like a good idea and fluff for rebranding the warforged as a frankenstein's monster/flesh golem. Other then that I'm at a loss (taking the mind flayer or the grell and make it a PC race would be a problem.) Classes of Maddness: I can see two different ideas: a standard build for Psion and Ardent (flesh warping Psion & a maddness based Ardent) as well as an esential artificer called the Mad Scientist (that is both martial & arcane power sources) Feats of Maddness: It would be a mix of racial feats for preexisting races to have a touch of maddness or be better at fighting it. Class feats for the two builds and the esential class, as well as general feats. Items of Maddness: These would be a mixture of new Psion/Ardent magical items and mad science items. There would be a side bar talking about how Mad Science items are basically magical items in crunch (built the same way mechanically) but are technological devices in fluff. Explaining that you can refluff any standard magical item as a mad science item and vice versa. That the only difference is the back story. this would include rituals with a new name (designs? Scematics?) but work the same way (with a mad science feat that is functionally the same as the ritual caster feat) |
| #28purpleknightSep 25, 2011 20:10:33 | Rules for taint, mental and physical. This |
| #29arnvid2008Oct 01, 2011 1:36:50 | Back in 3rd Edition D&D, in the book 'Complete Arcane', there was a section about those wizards who chose to extensively study the Far Realm and this section was called the 'Alienist'. Over time, such a wizard was supposed to acquire a greater ability to 'hear' the whispers of the entities of the Far Realm, even as this wizard gradually began to morph into a creature of the Far Realm. In his articles on the Far Realm, as it applies star pact warlocks, I think that Bruce Cordell has been trying to create the notion that the Far Realm is a place that the devils and the demons prefer to avoid, a place that the primordials shun, a place that only insane mortals can contemplate, a place that only mortals with an extremely high opinion of themselves (Charisma score of 28 plus!, Wisdom score of 10) would willingly associate themselves with. In short, the Far Realm is somewhere to be avoided and anyone who desires a close association with the Far Realm is quite probably totally insane (and thus, no longer suitable for use as a player character). |
| #30Omnirahk_half-RahkshiOct 01, 2011 10:06:42 | Back in 3rd Edition D&D, in the book 'Complete Arcane', there was a section about those wizards who chose to extensively study the Far Realm and this section was called the 'Alienist'. Over time, such a wizard was supposed to acquire a greater ability to 'hear' the whispers of the entities of the Far Realm, even as this wizard gradually began to morph into a creature of the Far Realm. Except that said star pact warlock article also provides rules for star pact warlocks making use of said powers. Ie., the article describes how foolish and insanity-inducing it is, while giving options for player characters who are exactly that foolhardy. So no, characters who gain power from the Far Realm are not automatically too insane to play. An individual DM is free to rule that way, the rules already provide the options, so WotC is not taking that stance. |
| #31arnvid2008Oct 03, 2011 3:03:22 | Back in 3rd Edition D&D, in the book 'Complete Arcane', there was a section about those wizards who chose to extensively study the Far Realm and this section was called the 'Alienist'. Over time, such a wizard was supposed to acquire a greater ability to 'hear' the whispers of the entities of the Far Realm, even as this wizard gradually began to morph into a creature of the Far Realm. Cordell's articles on 'Making the Pact' and 'Sealing the Pact' came much later after I had established a methodology of play for star pact warlock PC, thus if I had certainly begun to have side conversations with 'invisible' companions, the group would probably be unsettled by my actions. Now then, if I choose to play a star pact warlock again, or for that matter ANY warlock again, I will consider the idea of keeping a running conversation going with my patron's invisible emissary. |
| #32Kalex_the_OmenOct 03, 2011 7:29:12 | In short, the Far Realm is somewhere to be avoided and anyone who desires a close association with the Far Realm is quite probably totally insane (and thus, no longer suitable for use as a player character). I am in 100% agreement. There are some areas of the game best left undescribed. |
| #33XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsekOct 03, 2011 7:42:18 | In short, the Far Realm is somewhere to be avoided and anyone who desires a close association with the Far Realm is quite probably totally insane (and thus, no longer suitable for use as a player character). That's correct and I agree with this. I always hated it when any game did this sort of thing. They will describe a place such as the Far Realm as a place of pure and absolute madness that no mortal can last 5 seconds in and yet they come out with Far Realm options for your PC's and even classes. Now the Far Realm as you just described is essentially worth less. PC's shouldn't be the exception to everything. |
| #34raptor112Oct 03, 2011 8:56:58 | I disagree, you can have some fun role playing with the Far Realm, and PC's don't have to know everything about it but get a taste of its power. It brings up questions of how far your willing to go for that power. Is power worth the madness? I would love to see the return of the Alienist and other weird things for PCs |
| #35Kalex_the_OmenOct 03, 2011 9:27:06 |
I don't disagree with this, but I think concretely quantifying the Far Realm takes the mysterious, creep, and fear right out of it. My fear about a Far Realm book is that WotC would feel compelled to detail every aspect of the Far Realm making it a knowable challenege for players. Every DM should feel free to add Far Realms elements to their own game, but base them on what they and their players fear, and keep the details from their players to keep them fearful. That is why I think players options for the Far Realm should be kept to short articles in the magazines that refrain from describing in too much detail any of the background elements. |
| #36Omnirahk_half-RahkshiOct 03, 2011 9:30:46 | tbok, your idea is horrible and you should feel incredible shame for suggesting it. If they offered olympic medals in completely missing the point, you would have just taken the gold with a lowest score of 9.8. Then aim that glove at me. Look, (1) don't insult people for liking something different from you, and (2) if handled right it's possible (and in my opinion, desirable) to have options for PCs tainted by the Far Realm. This does not mean that the PCs are somehow greater than the gods and able to safely handle the power of the Far Realm. I think that most of us in favor are assuming the caveat of PCs crossing the line into madness and/or corrupted by an outside force (see TVTropes "Cursed with Awesome.") Or something like the Spellplague from the Forgotten Realms Players Guide. In short, sort of a 4e Heroes of Horror. |
| #37tbok1992Oct 03, 2011 17:15:16 | I did not mention anything about quantifying the Far Realm Kalex, only about using PCs deriving power from it. I also agree that the Far Realm is scariest when they give just give enough information to horrify, while revealing little enough to leave you wondering, as it is with most Lovecraftian horror. |
| #38hyrsamOct 03, 2011 17:40:53 | Synad, Nothics, Some new type of Star Spawn, and Advesaries (mindflayers that don't have to eat brains and I think were playable in a previous edition) could all make. A good new races. Nothics aren't evil either, nor particularly cannibalistic, just weirdos with one giant eye. Humaniod too. Class I could see is Host, you are infected with far realmsian parasite that takes a bite of your soul, shadow magic pours in to fill the gap. I |
| #39Steely_DanOct 04, 2011 11:55:10 | I can see Grell as the most likely abberant race to produce non-evil defectors. Plus, they actually have tentacles they can manipulate stuff with And would have a Speed of Fly X (altitude limit 1)? |
| #40raptor112Oct 04, 2011 17:12:50 |
My only worry with that in articles we won't get as much content as in a book, and we don't have to have the Far Realm completely spelled out in the book but only what the PC's can tap (which should only be a sliver of the tip of the iceburg). I can't see use haveing multiple builds/subclasses, at least one race, paragon paths/epic destinies, feats and magical items in dragon/dugeon articles. I just really want an excuse for them to make a mad scientist. |
| #41zenwarOct 05, 2011 20:10:03 | I get what ya mean Salla, but I was thinking more in the realm of "Making lemons out of horrible mind-shattering lemonade" type heroes. That is to say, heroes who have been touched and tainted by the Far Realm but are trying to use said unholy powers for good (Maybe even to shut the Far Realm out of the World for good for some respite from their madness) even as it slowly erodes away their sanity. Epic level play with these sorts of characters would be interesting, as they would either be strong willed enough to use the power with out it completely corrupting them by that point or almost gone to the realm's madness with but the barest hint of sanity guiding them along. It could be the heroes who specialize in fighting things from the far realm. Anyone remember the 3rd edition mind flayer hunters? I think tbok1992 has a great idea here. |
| #42MacEochaidOct 11, 2011 23:07:10 | Done right a hero book can be full of mystery and explanations. The key for me would be to keep it based on pockets of the natural world effected by Far Realm mutation. I have had a long standing idea of a Dwarf culture that has turned it's back on Moradin since it has found only psychic powers keep the Derro and their Aberrant masters at bay in the caves of madness. They have a sort of Tibetan mysticism about them, and wield gilded skulls of their ancestors as orb implements. If you kept it stuff like that, you wouldn't be "explaining the far realm" but still have powerful flavor. |
| #43Kalex_the_OmenOct 12, 2011 5:54:46 | Done right a hero book can be full of mystery and explanations. The key for me would be to keep it based on pockets of the natural world effected by Far Realm mutation. The funny thing about this to me is that is seems you don't need a Heroes of the Far Realm book. And that is part of my point, a Far Realms book actually adds nothing to the game, but potentially destroys a lot. Kinda like the Far Realms itself. |
| #44raptor112Oct 13, 2011 13:09:01 | I still insist that calling it Heroes of the Far Realm is a bad idea, it would be more appropriate to be labeled Powers of the Far Realm or Powers of Maddness. Since we can have a book about playing evil characters, why not one that taps maddness? Give the game a bit of lovecraftian flare. |
| #45Steely_DanOct 14, 2011 12:10:33 | I still insist that calling it Heroes of the Far Realm is a bad idea, it would be more appropriate to be labeled Powers of the Far Realm or Powers of Maddness. People who Fight Squid-Heads. |
| #46raptor112Oct 14, 2011 15:29:00 | I still insist that calling it Heroes of the Far Realm is a bad idea, it would be more appropriate to be labeled Powers of the Far Realm or Powers of Maddness. I would be ok with this. |
| #47Steely_DanOct 14, 2011 16:22:04 | I still insist that calling it Heroes of the Far Realm is a bad idea, it would be more appropriate to be labeled Powers of the Far Realm or Powers of Maddness. Exactly, get my aberration on. |
| #48MechaPilotOct 15, 2011 23:29:12 | I still insist that calling it Heroes of the Far Realm is a bad idea, it would be more appropriate to be labeled Powers of the Far Realm or Powers of Maddness. Since we can have a book about playing evil characters, why not one that taps maddness? Give the game a bit of lovecraftian flare. I am mostly indifferent to the name, but I do feel there is no good reason why the far realm can't have heroes. Granted, they would be insane by our standards, but that's the nature of the farm realm. I mean, what happens to a denizen of the far realm when it goes insane? Does it become capable of empathy and rational thought? With regard to the madness angle, I love it. My first 4e character was a starlock that was already insane and physically warped from contact with the far realm. She was exceedingly creepy, and a blast to play. My DM allowed me to give her hands, which had been warped into claws, the damage ability of daggers. We fluffed her wielding a dagger into her having claws. She had a foot-long prehensile tongue, and the really creepy habit of using it to tuck errant strands of hair behind her ear. She also hallucinated visually (though never in a way that undermined her usefulness in encounters) and used to hear the "music of the stars" at night. She liked to watch people sleep too (she got good and close, face to face when possible, as if she could see their dreams by interpreting their eye movements). We also agreed that her connection to the stars gave her an innate knowledge of their names, locations, and ability as an astrologer. Oh, and her bonus starting language was Deep Speech. God, I want to play that character again. |
| #49warfteinerOct 21, 2011 19:57:05 |
HAHAHHAHA! Get Your Aberration On: a DM's guide to the powers and options of the Far Realm |
| #50Steely_DanOct 22, 2011 13:16:32 |
Total, like a bad Call of Cthulu encounter: "...You enter a 10-by-10 room bathroom, there's an Octopus in the toilet - Sanity Check!" |
| #51blatherDec 02, 2011 21:37:12 | Frankly, this need to be a reasource to bring a little more vileness back into the game. A little more evil. NO HEROS! Strictly a resource for the DM. This eddition needs to power up on the dark side. There needs to be a harkening back to the leathal level of some serious fiends and foes from this realm unknown. bring back Jublix, Vaprax and some of the other real nasties from the OD&D Deities and Demigods. |