The better question is what mechanics are going to make the end half of the encounter more "risky", as mentioned in the podcast.
The most interesting is the first Dual-Role class. It was mentioned in the latest D&D Podcast. What do you all think?
I'm going to have to agree with Mike Mearls on the concept of dual role classes.
I know there was some talk of trying to make hybrid character classes that span two roles, but in playtests and looking at it, it was just a switch that let you go “OK, now you’re a controller”, flip a switch, and now you’re a striker.
At some level you’re just going to be worse than someone else filling those two roles. You don’t want to be a controller that’s sometimes a crappy striker.
We don’t really need to make multi-role characters
:P
Also was it a completely new class or just a new build?
I'd be willing to bet the multi role "class" is a Werewolf or something similar. I'm also willing to bet that gnomes get "essentialized".
The werewolf would be interesting, especially with the Vampire being in the Shadowfell book, this seems plausible.
Ueing that race and makeing it into a class (just saying it is tought and rituels not inborn does that) you could have a controler that mixed wizard and druid (non wild shape theme) basics that could, flip the switch and go striker were baddie...
I imagin like druid you get 1 extra at will, and tleast 1 most be useable in beast form, and atleast 1 not. beast form powers are like barbrian powers, non beast powers are more like debuf and AOE.
then flip the switch (rage out) and gain extra damage and claw like attacks.
on the other hand imagin the defender who marks and at the half way point was driven into a bezerker frenzy thats mark shifts into an extra damage feature (ala curse or quarry)
The impression I get is that, if Heroes of Shadow is for people who want D&D to be more like Vampire: The Requiem, then Heroes of the Feywild is for people who want it to be more like Changeling: The Lost... ;)
Kinda, but that's not neccessarily a bad thing. It expands the in-game universe, and that's cool (like bowties
).Also, I wish the thread title was "Heroes of the FeyWILD SPECULATION". :TEACH:
Ranadiel, were those quotes made before Essentials? Because Essentials was a game changer (literally). What can be done with the new freedom of design Essentials gives is much different than could be done before. I loved Pre-Essentials design, but it was limited by it's uniformity.
They were pre-PHB2 and they were referring to the attempt to make the Druid into a hybrid role class. It simply didn't work. It wasn't that 4ed was unable to handle dual source roles and that essentials will some how magically make it work. It was that the concept didn't work right and it still doesn't work right. I'm sure if you are fine with sacrificing either fun or balance to make the class it is doable, but I wouldn't hold my breath otherwise.
And yes, I know essentials was a game changer. That is why I have effectively quit D&D....again. Essentials killed all the enthusiasm that I used to have(and I had a lot). I'm honestly not even really sure why I bother to come here still other than possibly the fact that watching stuff crash and burn is fun.
The only freedom given by Essentials is the freedom for developers to be lazy in designing classes.....I could go on but I'm already horribly off topic. x_x
I'm inferring from the podcast that once you change roles in an encounter you cannot return to the previous role until a new encounter. I see that as a feasible solution to Ranadiel's objections, however as they hate what has been added to 4e thanks to Essentials I doubt they will agree with me.
I don't really see how that handles the issue that came up with the Druid. Either the class will be fully effective at both roles and therefore will break balance or the class will be les than fully effective at both roles and will therefore feel as though it is subpar. Or it could be fully effective at one role and less effective at the other, but then there is no real point to the second role. Having the switch be permenant for an encounter hardly handles the inherit problem with the concept.
I'm inferring from the podcast that once you change roles in an encounter you cannot return to the previous role until a new encounter. I see that as a feasible solution to Ranadiel's objections, however as they hate what has been added to 4e thanks to Essentials I doubt they will agree with me.
I don't really see how that handles the issue that came up with the Druid. Either the class will be fully effective at both roles and therefore will break balance or the class will be les than fully effective at both roles and will therefore feel as though it is subpar. Or it could be fully effective at one role and less effective at the other, but then there is no real point to the second role. Having the switch be permenant for an encounter hardly handles the inherit problem with the concept.
Basically, as set out in the Hybrid rules (PHB3), the only thing a split roles is good at is covering that ever elusive 5th character sweet spot. If only there was a role that was not covered by Striker, Leader, Controller and Defender.
Kinda, but that's not neccessarily a bad thing.
I didn't imply that it was. In my D&D, the Feywild already takes a lot of inspiration from Changeling. Right down to the fey 'races' being originally humans who spent too long in the 'Faerie Realms' (and the Archfey simply being those who've been there the longest, so that they've actually become part of the plane).
that's cool (like bowties
Yes.
Kinda, but that's not neccessarily a bad thing.
I didn't imply that it was. In my D&D, the Feywild already takes a lot of inspiration from Changeling. Right down to the fey 'races' being originally humans who spent too long in the 'Faerie Realms' (and the Archfey simply being those who've been there the longest, so that they've actually become part of the plane).that's cool (like bowties
Yes.
Nor did I imply that you implied that it was a bad thing. Rather I was reassuring those that may infer that it was a bad thing from your statement. Indeed I feel it to be very good.
Kinda, but that's not neccessarily a bad thing.
I didn't imply that it was. In my D&D, the Feywild already takes a lot of inspiration from Changeling. Right down to the fey 'races' being originally humans who spent too long in the 'Faerie Realms' (and the Archfey simply being those who've been there the longest, so that they've actually become part of the plane).that's cool (like bowties
Yes.
Nor did I imply that you implied that it was a bad thing. Rather I was reassuring those that may infer that it was a bad thing from your statement. Indeed I feel it to be very good.
Indeed, this is only a bad thing if the players in question dislike the work of White Wolf.
I happen to be one such person, but my point still stands.
Well the switch was noted as being risky. From personal experience I've noticed that defenders and leaders function mostly from class abilities, whereas controllers and strikers function mostly through powers. Perhaps there will be something of a Rune state mechanic, switching will affect your powers in some way. That seems more than a fair balance.
If the dual-role class is indeed a Lycanthrope, I wouldn't be surprised if it started out as a defender or controller that would (willingly or unwillingly) transform into a more deadly striker as the encounter progressed. The implied risk would, IMHO, be slowly losing control of your character, maybe attacking the nearest creature when struck etc.
I guess only time will tell. :p
Then we'd have:
• Werewolf Class
• New domains for Warpriests (Moon? Arcana?)
• New Swordmage kit or support for the Bladesinger (depends on how Bladesinger turns out in Neverwinter)
• Possibly essentialised Bard, or at least Bard support?
• Warlock Pacts with various members of the Court of the Stars: Winter Court and the White Lady are already there in Hexblade, and Winter Court is there for the original Warlock; we'd probably get some more support for different types of Fey Pacts.
• More Illusion and Enchantment spells for Mages/Wizards?
That fills up the book quite nicely.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if we got a box set similar to Shadowfell: Gloomwrought and Beyond on the Feywild not too long after.
So, dual-scored Shifter and Gnome; plus a new race, is my racial predictions.
Then we'd have:
• Werewolf Class
• New domains for Warpriests (Moon? Arcana?)
• New Swordmage kit or support for the Bladesinger (depends on how Bladesinger turns out in Neverwinter)
• Possibly essentialised Bard, or at least Bard support?
• Warlock Pacts with various members of the Court of the Stars: Winter Court and the White Lady are already there in Hexblade, and Winter Court is there for the original Warlock; we'd probably get some more support for different types of Fey Pacts.
• More Illusion and Enchantment spells for Mages/Wizards?
That fills up the book quite nicely.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if we got a box set similar to Shadowfell: Gloomwrought and Beyond on the Feywild not too long after.
Ok.. that would be just awesome. Granted this is just speculation right now, but what would think would go into a product like that?
half dragons maybe?
cyclopses? (im not sure what the plural form of cyclops is)
most likley new race options for wildens, and all the fey races
duel role class? could be intristing, however its diffrent so chances are you will see alot of people act like this is the worst thing that WOtC could of possibly ever done and darn them to heck for ruining ALL OF 4E. lets just hope it dosent take all forums off topic like the essentials debate did
return of high elves perchance?
Considering eladrin effectively are high elves, and are generally the masters of the feywild. High elves are already covered.
If they aren't, WoTC also decided to give Elves Intelligence as their new optional stat.
I'm kinda hoping in '12 they may have a super adventure w/ a new artifact tie in, like Gardmoor Abby had the Deck of Many Things. Though I don't really know how they could do a Feywild boxed set that included Baba Yuga's Hut
I would be really happy to get stats for Baba Yaga or any more of the Archfey. The Feywild is my favorite plane. I am stoked for this book coming out.
I could easily see Werewolf/Lycanthorpe as the new dual role class. From what I've ready, Lycanthorpes aren't inheirently evil, and even some of what was mentioned in the Brokenstone Vale section of MotP makes me think that there could be some non-evil ones.
I could see Gnomes and Shifters getting the updated Racial package too...Gnomes especially.
return of high elves perchance?
half dragons maybe?
cyclopses? (im not sure what the plural form of cyclops is)
most likley new race options for wildens, and all the fey races
duel role class? could be intristing, however its diffrent so chances are you will see alot of people act like this is the worst thing that WOtC could of possibly ever done and darn them to heck for ruining ALL OF 4E. lets just hope it dosent take all forums off topic like the essentials debate did
Half dragon seems unlikely, it's just doesn't really fit with the fey theme.
Kalnaur, I believe Duskweaver was making an analogy, not specifically stating that it would be a carbon copy of those White Wolf products. I can understand your dislike of their products, and your desire for further support of the elements that you like. Personally I don't much like White Wolf either, but adding to the game is always something I enjoy.
Adding to the game, provided that the options are interesting or fun. And yeah, I doubt D&D will become a White Wolf product anytime soon.
No it wouldn't be terrible. It'd be hilarious to play a thoroughly confused Warforged Werewolf.
It'd be a Transformer!
No it wouldn't be terrible. It'd be hilarious to play a thoroughly confused Warforged Werewolf.
It'd be a Transformer![/quote]
fixed
No it wouldn't be terrible. It'd be hilarious to play a thoroughly confused Warforged Werewolf.
It'd be a Transformer!
Golems in Disguise? I'd hate to have to try and explain that to my allies. "Oh yeah, um I turn into this big wolf creature sometimes." "No, I don't know how I got into this predicament." "I'm not real sure how it works either, it's really confusing."
No it wouldn't be terrible. It'd be hilarious to play a thoroughly confused Warforged Werewolf.
It'd be a Transformer![/quote]
fixed
It'd actually be more like this. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds7NBsHxBZE
and shifters are like 1/2 werewolf, making them about 1/4 wolf already
as for warforged werewolf, it would be more like beast wars,
while this is a hyena.
Note the thinner, longer snout on the wolf as well as the longer fur and more pointed ear structure.
Additionally, only longtooth shifters are akin to werewolves. Razorclaws on the other hand are related to weretigers.
This is a wolf,
while this is a hyena.
Note the thinner, longer snout on the wolf as well as the longer fur and more pointed ear structure.
Additionally, only longtooth shifters are akin to werewolves. Razorclaws on the other hand are related to weretigers.
My mind just constructed a Razorclaw Vampire/Werewolf hybrid class character.
Then my mind proceeded to explode.
No it wouldn't be terrible. It'd be hilarious to play a thoroughly confused Warforged Werewolf.
It'd be a Transformer!
I played one before =)
Warforged Druid. Had to change though; my companions kept facepalming whenever I said the ''Autobots'' catchphrase.
return of high elves perchance?
half dragons maybe?
Like Mink from Dragonhalf? (And if so, can we have slime halfs? Or even just slimes
) Actually, I remember a PC that accidentally married a dragon, and his daughters ended up being half silver dragon.
cyclopses? (im not sure what the plural form of cyclops is)
Either Cyclops, Cyclopes, or Cyclopses.
No it wouldn't be terrible. It'd be hilarious to play a thoroughly confused Warforged Werewolf.
It'd be a Transformer!
fixed
It'd actually be more like this. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds7NBsHxBZE
Or like this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANAs0RVYpiQ
no offense, but I hated beastwars...
when i was 4 it seemed awsome
either way, a werewolf would be awsome, i do not know how a warforged could actually get infected with it however, its made of a combo of wood metal and other magic crud.
i would wonder how still they would implement it, would you get speed bonuses? would silvered weapons screw you up? would it be limited to werewolves? there are wererats, weretigers, werewolves, and im sure a bunch of other werestuff that i cant think of right now, is it possible that we will have an option as a class feature?
no offense, but I hated beastwars...
when i was 4 it seemed awsome
either way, a werewolf would be awsome, i do not know how a warforged could actually get infected with it however, its made of a combo of wood metal and other magic crud.
i would wonder how still they would implement it, would you get speed bonuses? would silvered weapons screw you up? would it be limited to werewolves? there are wererats, weretigers, werewolves, and im sure a bunch of other werestuff that i cant think of right now, is it possible that we will have an option as a class feature?
Agreed I loved it too when it was around. I remember the sequel (can't remember it's name) looked real bad in comparison.
As for how it works I can only think of the Futurama episode where Benders gets turned into a werecar. Honk! Honk!
Beast Machines was just...bad. It tried to take itself too seriously.
if there is a werewolf then im totally going warforged just to relive the ol days when crappy CG and bad writing seemed like the coolest thing ever to me
I'd go with a minotaur.
if there is a werewolf then im totally going warforged just to relive the ol days when crappy CG and bad writing seemed like the coolest thing ever to me
I'd go with a minotaur.
how would that work? would you be 1/2 man 1/4 wolf ana 1/4 cow?
No. It's manwolfcow. Half man, half wolf, half cow. And it's the greatest threat to D&D ever. I'm super serial.
It's a half man, half wolfcow! Or, is it a half wolf, half cowman? Maybe it's a half cow, half manwolf?
No. It's manwolfcow. Half man, half wolf, half cow. And it's the greatest threat to D&D ever. I'm super serial.
no its a walking mad cow disease....
tottally gotta make a revnent minotar werewolf with deva heratage, try explaining that one boys n girls
Death God having a laugh. You were a minotaur in life but you died in a truly fantastic way, so whatever god that is in charge of the dead in your campaign decides "I'm going to bring him back" for whatever inscrutable reasoning they may have. You came back blessed with divine undeath (how much of a paradox is that?) and were unceremoniously turned into a werewolf somehow. Perhaps it was the gods messing with you, maybe it was primal spirits making sure you didn't upset the balance to badly, you don't really know and no one is going to tell you.
tottally gotta make a revnent minotar werewolf with deva heratage, try explaining that one boys n girls
yogurt... you want Yogurt master of the swartz!!!
a poor DEva got himself bit by a werewolf, then got killed by the Dread Necromanser Bavmorda and instead of coming back, he got reincarnated and got axed by Fin Razel and came back alter as a revnant with all the qualities of each time....
that sir is a doomed character.....
tottally gotta make a revnent minotar werewolf with deva heratage, try explaining that one boys n girls
Deva heritage can manifest in any living race, including minotaurs, and is, among other things, a sign of a great destiny. Minotaurs can be infected with lycanthropy as easily as any humanoid race, and your deva heritage minotaur suffered this fate. His companions, unable to save him, struck him down.
However, as he died with his destiny unfulfilled, the god of death was pursuaded to return him on borrowed time as a revenant.
There you go, revenant deva minotaur werewolf.
A mishmash, but still not as bad in my head as the revenant vrloka damphyr vampire / wizard archlich.
no offense, but I hated beastwars...
when i was 4 it seemed awsome
You guys are young, I was like 8 when that show was on.
I was 16 when that show started. Now I feel damn old . . .
I was 16 when that show started. Now I feel damn old . . .
I was in middle school, so I'm older than them but still younger than you.
Beast Wars had good writing, and it was better than Transformers I'd say.
In an attempt to get this thing back on topic, what kind of races could be included? Shadow is getting three (one old, and 2 completely new), so I'd assume there'll be three in here.
It would be unexpected, a korred bard would be an interesting concept. Myconids may make an appearance as well, though that seems unlikely.
i can see it now...
"what's your party make-up?"
"we got a vrloka, dhampyre vampire, a warforged lycanthrope, a screaming mushroom with a mandolin, and then things get really weird..."
It would be unexpected, a korred bard would be an interesting concept. Myconids may make an appearance as well, though that seems unlikely.
i can see it now...
"what's your party make-up?"
"we got a vrloka, dhampyre vampire, a warforged lycanthrope, a screaming mushroom with a mandolin, and then things get really weird..."
That honestly sounds awesome.
I think I need to ask for Gamma World stuff . . .
It would be unexpected, a korred bard would be an interesting concept. Myconids may make an appearance as well, though that seems unlikely.
i can see it now...
"what's your party make-up?"
"we got a vrloka, dhampyre vampire, a warforged lycanthrope, a screaming mushroom with a mandolin, and then things get really weird..."
Korreds are like leprechauns, they're a different thing from myconids. Though Korreds are pretty obscure monsters. A Satyr race could be interesting, or maybe a faun.
well it would likely be FEY types.
the elven were wolf for starters( its name I forgot)
the gnome
and the aquatic elf
winged elf
this is my guess list
I dont see plant types being listed as a race though....
player races..
well it would likely be FEY types.
the elven were wolf for starters( its name I forgot)
the gnome
and the aquatic elf
winged elf
this is my guess list
I dont see plant types being listed as a race though....
Lythari, and I really don't see there being any more elves, ever. The gnome, probably but other than that it's a bit of a mystery.
@ lokoire that sounds like a badass party to me, although you clearly ment it in mocking sarcasim like always *yawn*
yeah if they did put them in, they would likely just be a power to replace the elf one out of the phb/essential books
I'd be willing to bet the multi role "class" is a Werewolf or something similar. I'm also willing to bet that gnomes get "essentialized".
The werewolf would be interesting, especially with the Vampire being in the Shadowfell book, this seems plausible.
Werewolf here would = awesome. When I first considered it, I thought the opposed locations (shadow book/fey book) would be cool but wondered, "Isn't the werewolf dark and shadowy too?" However, the big bad wolf is straight outta fairy tales, no? Thus I think it is not only plausible but arguably favorable and compelling to include a werewolf in the Feywild book. The Feywild theme is old school fairy tales, afterall, not just happy, magical, Disney-like fairy tales.
(Having said that, I hope they include a side-bar about reflavoring to weretigers, etc.)
Other ideas/speculation:
- For racial options, I figure some archfey/nymph-like races or race options, in general, might be cool. (Dragonborn swanmay, go!
) For example, I'd be interested to see some dryad flavoring for wilden. (I know they're fluffed as a newborn race, but I kind of like presenting them as dryads of some sort.....ones not tied to a tree, I guess.) Oh, and can we really fight the elven subrace hordes?? Who doesn't want to see a flying* fey/elven race, if just to have their characters shoot them down for target practice? 
*(By flying I of course mean gliding until higher levels.
) - Archfey patrons could probably be described, along with options (feats, PPs) for their followers. I hope for a lot in this regard...though mostly the angle and variety of the fluff is what I'm interested in.
- Some monsters out of fairy tale nightmares would be awesome! I hope they can find some things that terrified us all as little children!
(I mean that in a good way an amoral feywild way, of course!) 
- For items, they should include a poisoned apple! Ha.
- I'd be impressed if they can seamlessly incorporate "feywild" aspects of fairy tales from across the globe throughout different portions of the book. The "dark & scary woods" or "forbidden caves" where parents tell children never to go exist everywhere, right?
- Something about charms and psionics. Perhaps something that further integrates psionics into fantasy (for those who need or want that). I read somewhere about psionics (primarily in the form of charms) being natural to fey creatures like much of arcane magic, so much so that some of them consider non-fey using psionics an unnatural affront.
ETA: I'd like to see hagspawn as a playable race.
WE WANT WEREWOLVES
Wererabbit then?
How about a Werebear? Weretiger? Werelion? Wereunicorn?
Wererabbit then?
can it have vorpal teeth and breath so foul ?
it would say, in a Champions of the Beast book.....
but not FEY.....IMO and its my Opinion and I'm welcome to it
I'm pretty sure you can pretty much refluff to any werecreature fairly easily. I do want a Werewolf Class, I want it very much.
I imagin a class with multi builds... werewolf build(controler turns into striker), werebear build(controler turns to defender), wereshark (get laughed at on land)...ect
yeah but the were anything creature doesnt fit in with a book on more FEY options.....
it would say, in a Champions of the Beast book.....
but not FEY.....IMO and its my Opinion and I'm welcome to it
Heroes of the Feywild isn't just about fey characters, it's a book of options centered around the Feywild, which is home to an entire kingdom of Lycanthropes.
At any rate, as many posters have pointed out: Shapeshifters, like the werewolf, have many precedents in fairy tales, certainly live in the feywild, Goddess of Fey and Moon, etc, etc,
WotC wouldn't have to work too hard to find precedents (read: excuses, if you like) to fit the werewolf into a feywild book.
It also follows well after the Vampire being in the Shadow book. I like the idea. It makes sense to me. Which means it's likely it hasn't crossed anyones' mind at WotC. (That's me being pessemistic, not a statement of "I know better than WotC")
I will be happy to be wrong.
What's a MOP?
At any rate, as many posters have pointed out: Shapeshifters, like the werewolf, have many precedents in fairy tales, certainly live in the feywild, Goddess of Fey and Mood, etc, etc,
WotC wouldn't have to work too hard to find precedents (read: excuses, if you like) to fit the werewolf into a feywild book.
It also follows well after the Vampire being in the Shadow book. I like the idea. It makes sense to me. Which means it's likely it hasn't crossed anyones' mind at WotC. (That's me being pessemistic, not a statement of "I know better than WotC")
I will be happy to be wrong.
Manual of the Planes = MOP.
and that kindom is listed where?? MOP?? if thats the case it would explain it as I dont own a copy of it... could never stomach reading it....
It was in Manual of the Planes. It was also the cornerstone of a recent Dungeon adventure. Brokenstone Vale just so you know.
To boot, I think the dual-role class would work into the theme of the Lycanthrope well, but with one very specific trigger. How do you make it dangerous to switch roles?
By being Bloodied.
It's a great status effect, and depending on the initial role, might not get bloodied into half-way through a fight. Since losing a Leader is bad, I would suspect the Lycanthrope to be a Defender or Controller until it gets Bloodied, and then have it be a striker while it is bloodied. That fits with the racial powers of the Shifter races, and allows for players to strategize how to take damage optimally.
So, my vote is for a Lycanthrope class that starts as a Defender, bloodies, and becomes a Striker.
how about
A Unicorn (able to morph in to what seems a human or elfish child except looking in their eyes you can see the forest)
Big leader boosts as a child...Defender boosts as a Unicorn
I think this lends credence to the Unicorn class rather than simply dismissing the Werewolf. Obviously that Unicorn is being ridden by a cits summoned Eladrin and that faerie dragon is its familiar.
Probably would be Essential 'No choice for you! Less work for us!' style --
There are quite a few classes with little to no fey oriented material. Divine classes don't have much,
Anything relating to Corellon or Sehanine would fit. Trickery, Love, Moon, Wilderness, Skill and Arcana domains for warpriests? The Virtue of Compassion (i.e. Love) for cavaliers?
neither do psionic classes.
Except in Dark Sun, where the eladrin of the Lands Within The Wind (the Athasian Feywild) are some of the most powerful practitioners of the Way (i.e. psionics) in that setting. IIRC, it's also mentioned in Psionic Power that some fey believe psionics as a whole to be just a mortal formalisation of fey magic.
IIRC, it's also mentioned in Psionic Power that some fey believe psionics as a whole to be just a mortal formalisation of fey magic.
Ah, thank you! I knew I had heard this from somewhere. This is what I was referring to when I mentioned charms and psionics.
In regards to archfey and primal magic, if the former don't grant the latter directly perhaps it will just go into archfey alliances or connections with primal spirits.
Well 2 Archfey already do grant primal power, but it's not really definite if others can or not.
Which two?
Well 2 Archfey already do grant primal power, but it's not really definite if others can or not.
Which two?
Lurue and Relkath of the Infinite Branches. They're both from the Forgotten Realms campaign. Also, I'm not positive of where I read that they could so I may be incorrect.
i dont think we will get a flying race for balance reasons, exept with PP options like dragonborn
Well genasi have an encounter power that lets them fly, so that is an option.
the avariel would be nice
I agree, but I just don't see it being playable. Not because of mechanics necessarily, but due to the PoL backstory. They just don't fit too well with the elf/eladrin/drow trichotomy. If they were to be squeezed in they'd lose their charm in my opinion.
Maybe Harpys? They have flyin but its clumsy flying and they are fey. I'd belive they would fit in the book. The only thing that would harm them is their back story.
How bout winged elves? They could start out with an encounter fly and when they hit paragon have a feat that allows them to use it multiple times per encounter...
Elves?! bOOOring!
Bring in something new dangit... or pixies (winged gnomes!).
How bout winged elves? They could start out with an encounter fly and when they hit paragon have a feat that allows them to use it multiple times per encounter...
Elves?! bOOOring!
Bring in something new dangit... or pixies (winged gnomes!).
Pixies are cool, I want to play a pixie. That or a badass leprechaun!
what we'd get if anything...
Avariel
aquatic elves
were-something or other( though this might end up as a class)
Lashey( or was it Leshay??) archfey
Nymph
possible dryad
half fey
treant
Lythari
much of anything else is a no go for player characters...
that does include those giants
harpy
assassin vines etc
now we could get a whole lot of nothing too...
leprachauns are gnomes....
what we'd get if anything...
Avariel
aquatic elves
were-something or other( though this might end up as a class)
Lashey( or was it Leshay??) archfey
Nymph
possible dryad
half fey
treant
Lythari
much of anything else is a no go for player characters...
that does include those giants
harpy
assassin vines etc
now we could get a whole lot of nothing too...
As an Irishman I am offended by your lack of knowledge about The Fey!
Gnomes aren't Leprechauns. But that's neither here nor there. I seriously doubt we will see any elf variants as fully statted races, which leaves out Avariel, Aquatic elves, and Lythari. Secondly, treants are magical beasts not humanoids and are not medium or small in size so they're probably a no go. A half-fey race could be possible but half-elves already fit into that slot. Nymphs seem to be a fair guess, though unless they introduced males it would be limited to only female characters. Dryads have the limitation of being bonded to a certain tree(?, not positive on this) so they probably wouldn't be the adventuring type, as well as being all female as well. Archfey are too powerful, it'd be an epic destiny. It'd be more likely that we'd get something like a Faun, some feytouched human variant (human variants are like cars, everybodies gotta have one these days), and maybe something out of left field like Spriggans or something.Maybe Harpys? ... The only thing that would harm them is their back story.
I don't see why. In 4e, they're basically a subrace descended from another playable race (elves in their case) with a curse brought about by the actions of an evil ancestor. Just like drow, vryloka and tieflings, which are all playable races. There's nothing saying the whole race is evil. And the race as a whole is considerably less depraved than the drow. They also have a much less rigid society than the drow, making it far easier for lone heroic individuals to escape and become PCs.
And making a balanced flying race would be easy now that races can apparently have their own utility powers (see the shade). Start the harpy off with an encounter power that gives a single flight move. Then give it encounter and daily utility powers it can take in place of its class utilities that each give different variations on flight moves and corresponding modifications to attacks and other actions taken in the same turn (like the thief's tricks). Then, when it gets to mid-paragon tier, start to give it access to racial flight utilities that work at-will.
Examples:
Shrieking Dive
You fall from the sky upon your prey, unleashing a hellish screech that makes its ears bleed.
Encounter * Psychic, Thunder
Move Action * Personal
Effect: You fly your speed -2. If you do not land at the end of this movement, you fall. If you end this movement adjacent to an enemy, that enemy takes 5 extra thunder and psychic damage the next time you hit it with an attack before the end of your turn.
Dance Upon The Wind
You dodge and weave as you fly, your feathers brushing the faces of your foes in mockery of their hopeless attempts to hit you.
Encounter
Move Action * Personal
Effect: You fly half your speed. You do not provoke opportunity attacks during this movement. If you are grabbed, slowed or immobilized, you can make a saving throw or an escape attempt as a free action before resolving this movement, gaining a +2 power bonus to the roll. If you fail the saving throw or escape attempt, you do not move, but do not expend this power.
Maybe Harpys? ... The only thing that would harm them is their back story.
I don't see why. In 4e, they're basically a subrace descended from another playable race (elves in their case) with a curse brought about by the actions of an evil ancestor. Just like drow, vryloka and tieflings, which are all playable races. There's nothing saying the whole race is evil. And the race as a whole is considerably less depraved than the drow. They also have a much less rigid society than the drow, making it far easier for lone heroic individuals to escape and become PCs.
And making a balanced flying race would be easy now that races can apparently have their own utility powers (see the shade). Start the harpy off with an encounter power that gives a single flight move. Then give it encounter and daily utility powers it can take in place of its class utilities that each give different variations on flight moves and corresponding modifications to attacks and other actions taken in the same turn (like the thief's tricks). Then, when it gets to mid-paragon tier, start to give it access to racial flight utilities that work at-will.
Examples:
Shrieking Dive
You fall from the sky upon your prey, unleashing a hellish screech that makes its ears bleed.
Encounter * Psychic, Thunder
Move Action * Personal
Effect: You fly your speed -2. If you do not land at the end of this movement, you fall. If you end this movement adjacent to an enemy, that enemy takes 5 extra thunder and psychic damage the next time you hit it with an attack before the end of your turn.
Dance Upon The Wind
You dodge and weave as you fly, your feathers brushing the faces of your foes in mockery of their hopeless attempts to hit you.
Encounter
Move Action * Personal
Effect: You fly half your speed. You do not provoke opportunity attacks during this movement. If you are grabbed, slowed or immobilized, you can make a saving throw or an escape attempt as a free action before resolving this movement, gaining a +2 power bonus to the roll. If you fail the saving throw or escape attempt, you do not move, but do not expend this power.
That is a brilliant idea!
I mean, what about the Vrykolakas for HoS? Or it called the Vǎrkolak?
I can't find the name of the thing now.
Anyway, point is it could be any odd thing out of left field.
That or a badass leprechaun!
A gnome by any other name would not smell so sweet...
perhaps we will see some hybrid animal/human races
like beardude or birddude or maybe they will conceive of new races not featured in the past of D&D
Probably the latter of the two. I think that Wizards shies away from the non-established anthros, as Furries are bad for public relations.
Don't count the furries out, they are our best bet at getting blue half-cat elves.....
ARRRRGHH! Avatar reference! Kill it with fire!
Also: on altitiude rstictions on flying as I talked about earlier: It's from ground, so darts could still strike them, they also get only prtoectio from 10ftt. pits for truth and 5 ft: 1 square.
I caound maybe be fine with blue half-cat elves. I would like harpys more though...
I would like hybridized half races, It would make it interesting. Maybe half-golems(nah, maybe not).
Also: on altitiude rstictions on flying as I talked about earlier: It's from ground, so darts could still strike them, they also get only prtoectio from 10ftt. pits for truth and 5 ft: 1 square.
I caound maybe be fine with blue half-cat elves. I would like harpys more though...
Anything with a pressure switch would be avoided by flying over it. Not to mention it would render difficult terrain a mute point.
I would like hybridized half races, It would make it interesting. Maybe half-golems(nah, maybe not).
Also: on altitiude rstictions on flying as I talked about earlier: It's from ground, so darts could still strike them, they also get only prtoectio from 10ftt. pits for truth and 5 ft: 1 square.
I caound maybe be fine with blue half-cat elves. I would like harpys more though...
Anything with a pressure switch would be avoided by flying over it. Not to mention it would render difficult terrain a mute point.
Wind tunnels or high gust areas and similar things are difficult terrain too ... in a world with magic auras and life force are detectable.
According to Bart's Blog, the race update is this week. Let's hope it remains this week, rather than being pushed off for later this month.
And now you can!
According to Bart's Blog, the race update is this week. Let's hope it remains this week, rather than being pushed off for later this month.
Seconded.
And now you can!
According to Bart's Blog, the race update is this week. Let's hope it remains this week, rather than being pushed off for later this month.
Seconded.
Thirded. Its nice to have something the majority of the community can agree on!
And now you can!
According to Bart's Blog, the race update is this week. Let's hope it remains this week, rather than being pushed off for later this month.
Seconded.
Thirded. Its nice to have something the majority of the community can agree on!
Agreeing is easy, being civil enough to be able to is hard.
Agreeing is easy, being civil enough to be able to is hard.
I don't know, Hatta. We're relatively civil most of the time, yet rarely agree.
off topic: civility
Further, the implication that any disagreement is inherently the fault of one side or the other being insufficiently civil is itself not particularly civil. "I'm right because I've been polite, and you're wrong because you aren't" is a very aggrevating posture to assume, not to mention logically incorrect, and is generally used as an excuse to disregard the arguments of an impassioned adversary in a debate. It's especially galling when casual disregard of the other side's opinion is what goaded them into an adversarial tone in the first place.
A: "I don't like this for these reasons."
B: "Your opinion doesn't matter, and I'm not
even going to bother reading your reasons."
At this point A can meekly restate their reasons any number of times, and as long as they do it quietly and politely B can go on casually disregarding them, proving that unless A makes a fuss, B isn't going to pay any attention.
A: "You're being a jerk! Since you won't
listen to me when I'm quiet, then I'm going
to YELL untill you HAVE to listen!"
B: "Look at you name calling and yelling. Your
uncivil behavior just shows how nothing you say
has any validity, completely justifying my flippant
dismissal of your opinion in the first place."
It's also further complicated when A is a group and not an individual, in which case there will inevitably be more and less agitated members of A and the more agitated will skip directly to yelling and name calling, making it all the easier for members of group B to disregard anything said by any part of group A, using the excuse of group A's uncivil behavior. Of course, group B will also have less civil elements, and the less civil groups on both sides end up dictating the terms of the debate because the more civil members of either group find it easier to refuse to engage "those people" on the other side.
Now, of course, here we're just discussing casual games and luxury items, and none of it particularly matters that much. I'm just trying to point out that disregarding an opinion based on the lack of civility among those most vocal in espousing it is a poor habit to be in. If you find such a group to be too angry to interact with, then try making an honest effort to find the more civil elements within that group willing to explain why the rest are so angry in the first place.
Apart from that - some conflicts don't have resolutions reached through civil discussion, understanding, or compromise. Some conflicts don't have resolutions at all.
A: "I don't like this for these reasons."
B: "Your opinion doesn't matter, and I'm not
even going to bother reading your reasons."
At this point A can meekly restate their reasons any number of times, and as long as they do it quietly and politely B can go on casually disregarding them, proving that unless A makes a fuss, B isn't going to pay any attention.
A: "You're being a jerk! Since you won't
listen to me when I'm quiet, then I'm going
to YELL untill you HAVE to listen!"
B: "Look at you name calling and yelling. Your
uncivil behavior just shows how nothing you say
has any validity, completely justifying my flippant
dismissal of your opinion in the first place."
It's also further complicated when A is a group and not an individual, in which case there will inevitably be more and less agitated members of A and the more agitated will skip directly to yelling and name calling, making it all the easier for members of group B to disregard anything said by any part of group A, using the excuse of group A's uncivil behavior. Of course, group B will also have less civil elements, and the less civil groups on both sides end up dictating the terms of the debate because the more civil members of either group find it easier to refuse to engage "those people" on the other side.
Now, of course, here we're just discussing casual games and luxury items, and none of it particularly matters that much. I'm just trying to point out that disregarding an opinion based on the lack of civility among those most vocal in espousing it is a poor habit to be in. If you find such a group to be too angry to interact with, then try making an honest effort to find the more civil elements within that group willing to explain why the rest are so angry in the first place.
Apart from that - some conflicts don't have resolutions reached through civil discussion, understanding, or compromise. Some conflicts don't have resolutions at all.
Agreeing is easy, being civil enough to be able to is hard.
I don't know, Hatta. We're relatively civil most of the time, yet rarely agree.off topic: civilityFurther, the implication that any disagreement is inherently the fault of one side or the other being insufficiently civil is itself not particularly civil. "I'm right because I've been polite, and you're wrong because you aren't" is a very aggrevating posture to assume, not to mention logically incorrect, and is generally used as an excuse to disregard the arguments of an impassioned adversary in a debate. It's especially galling when casual disregard of the other side's opinion is what goaded them into an adversarial tone in the first place.
A: "I don't like this for these reasons."
B: "Your opinion doesn't matter, and I'm not
even going to bother reading your reasons."
At this point A can meekly restate their reasons any number of times, and as long as they do it quietly and politely B can go on casually disregarding them, proving that unless A makes a fuss, B isn't going to pay any attention.
A: "You're being a jerk! Since you won't
listen to me when I'm quiet, then I'm going
to YELL untill you HAVE to listen!"
B: "Look at you name calling and yelling. Your
uncivil behavior just shows how nothing you say
has any validity, completely justifying my flippant
dismissal of your opinion in the first place."
It's also further complicated when A is a group and not an individual, in which case there will inevitably be more and less agitated members of A and the more agitated will skip directly to yelling and name calling, making it all the easier for members of group B to disregard anything said by any part of group A, using the excuse of group A's uncivil behavior. Of course, group B will also have less civil elements, and the less civil groups on both sides end up dictating the terms of the debate because the more civil members of either group find it easier to refuse to engage "those people" on the other side.
Now, of course, here we're just discussing casual games and luxury items, and none of it particularly matters that much. I'm just trying to point out that disregarding an opinion based on the lack of civility among those most vocal in espousing it is a poor habit to be in. If you find such a group to be too angry to interact with, then try making an honest effort to find the more civil elements within that group willing to explain why the rest are so angry in the first place.
Apart from that - some conflicts don't have resolutions reached through civil discussion, understanding, or compromise. Some conflicts don't have resolutions at all.
off topic, maintaining a cheery disposition
I've led a relatively priviledged life (emotionally if not monitarily) that has instilled in me the confidence that what I think matters and that when I express myself others will hear me out. Had I not enjoyed such priviledge, I might have a more difficult time keeping my polite, if passionate, tone.
Even so, I require regular doses of mental candy to maintain my generally upbeat disposition. I was getting by on Adventure Time on Mondays. The whole Heroes of Shadow thing has necessitated the addition of My Little Pony on Fridays*, along with the occasional rerun of old favorites (PPG, Chowder, Invader Zim, FLCL, Teen Titans, Gargoyles, etc - all highly recommended by the way). If I'm posting at the time, you might notice an upswing in my disposition this Summer (I think?) when the new Avatar series starts - that's looking pretty awesome.
* I suppose I should thank HoS for that much, at least.
Even so, I require regular doses of mental candy to maintain my generally upbeat disposition. I was getting by on Adventure Time on Mondays. The whole Heroes of Shadow thing has necessitated the addition of My Little Pony on Fridays*, along with the occasional rerun of old favorites (PPG, Chowder, Invader Zim, FLCL, Teen Titans, Gargoyles, etc - all highly recommended by the way). If I'm posting at the time, you might notice an upswing in my disposition this Summer (I think?) when the new Avatar series starts - that's looking pretty awesome.
* I suppose I should thank HoS for that much, at least.
off topic, maintaining a cheery dispositionI've led a relatively priviledged life (emotionally if not monitarily) that has instilled in me the confidence that what I think matters and that when I express myself others will hear me out. Had I not enjoyed such priviledge, I might have a more difficult time keeping my polite, if passionate, tone.
Even so, I require regular doses of mental candy to maintain my generally upbeat disposition. I was getting by on Adventure Time on Mondays. The whole Heroes of Shadow thing has necessitated the addition of My Little Pony on Fridays*, along with the occasional rerun of old favorites (PPG, Chowder, Invader Zim, FLCL, Teen Titans, Gargoyles, etc - all highly recommended by the way). If I'm posting at the time, you might notice an upswing in my disposition this Summer (I think?) when the new Avatar series starts - that's looking pretty awesome.
* I suppose I should thank HoS for that much, at least.
That was a joke, of course - HotF without mention of eladrin would be just as ridiculous as HoS already is without the Shadar-Kai. I just hope we see some love for non HotFL races as well.
Undrave: I'm with you! Then again,
I just hope it isn't "eladrin, elf, halfling, dwarf, human" again. For one, doing all the HotFL races and none of the HotFK races is some pretty heavy favoritism, imo. And for another, those elves and humans and dwarves have been done to death. And really, Heroes of Shadow talks about high elves and wood elves, but not dark elves? Besides, if Heroes of Shadow didn't need to cover Shadar-Kai, I don't see why Heroes of the Feywild should bother to include Eladrin.
That was a joke, of course - HotF without mention of eladrin would be just as ridiculous as HoS already is without the Shadar-Kai. I just hope we see some love for non HotFL races as well.
Undrave: I'm with you! Then again,
a ddi article
thus the dragon annual
the monster manual.
like the Shades of Netheril, the shadar kai are nothing more than humans who spent to lon in the shadowy planes of massive I cant see 5 feet in front of meness
They're also explicitly the most populous PC race of the Shadowfell. Their people are the 'people of shadow', and their heroes are the 'heroes of shadow'. If not a full reprinted/updated write-up, then presumably they should have at least warranted as much mention in HoS as, say, Dwarves or Eladrin. And even apart from that, why write ups of all of the HotFL races, but none of the HotFK races? I thought Drow, Dragonborn, Half Elves, and Half Orcs were essential, too. Apparently some of the essential races aren't as essential as others.
Hopefully Gloomwrought takes some steps in rectifying the egregious oversight of the Shadar-Kai, and hopefully Heroes of the Feywild remembers that there were races in Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdom as well.
the sahdar kai have been mentioned in several locations
a ddi article
thus the dragon annual
the monster manual.
like the Shades of Netheril, the shadar kai are nothing more than humans who spent to lon in the shadowy planes of massive I cant see 5 feet in front of meness
Contemporary Campaign-generic Shades chose to be what they are. But that's Shadowfell talk, I wish to speak of Faeries, and Unicorns, and Sunshine, and Leprechauns and their shiny pots-o-gold at the end of giant sparkly rainbows, D@*# IT!
Contemporary Campaign-generic Shades chose to be what they are. But that's Shadowfell talk, I wish to speak of Faeries, and Unicorns, and Sunshine, and Leprechauns and their shiny pots-o-gold at the end of giant sparkly rainbows, D@*# IT!
This is fair.
Player's Essentials: Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms picked up some of the more uncommmon races, but not the rare ones.
The five from HotFL are in Player's Option: Heroes of Shadow, most likely, because since they're the most common in the world, they're the most common to be Shadowborn as well. Of course, I believe Shadar-kai should have gotten a mention here as well, if not an entire reprinting. It was egregrious for them to be ignored. ;_;
So, to bring this on-topic, I bet Drow and Half-elves will be ignored in Player's Option: Heroes of the Feywild, and we'll get Dwarves, Eladrin, Elves, Halfling, and Humans in the Feywild sections. Which is dissipointing, because I'd much rather see a section on Drow, Eladrin, Elves, Gnomes, Half-elves, and Wilden, the races that actually matter for their Fey connection.
Something I would buy...
I think that the fey races will definitely get some kind of coverage. Though to what extent remains a mystery. One must also remember that Heroes of the Feywild was stated to be not just about the fey, but also about all races (well the PC races anyway) interact with the Feywild and it's natives.
Bah that's just means 'races from Heroes of the Fallen Kingdom' again like in Heroes of Shadow. Just like Shadar-kai got snubbed I bet there won't be a line about PC Eladrins!
I think that the fey races will definitely get some kind of coverage. Though to what extent remains a mystery. One must also remember that Heroes of the Feywild was stated to be not just about the fey, but also about all races (well the PC races anyway) interact with the Feywild and it's natives.
Bah that's just means 'races from Heroes of the Fallen Kingdom' again like in Heroes of Shadow. Just like Shadar-kai got snubbed I bet there won't be a line about PC Eladrins!
Save for perhaps saying that they make good choices for certain classes in the Book.
I think that the fey races will definitely get some kind of coverage. Though to what extent remains a mystery. One must also remember that Heroes of the Feywild was stated to be not just about the fey, but also about all races (well the PC races anyway) interact with the Feywild and it's natives.
Bah that's just means 'races from Heroes of the Fallen Kingdom' again like in Heroes of Shadow. Just like Shadar-kai got snubbed I bet there won't be a line about PC Eladrins!
Save for perhaps saying that they make good choices for certain classes in the Book.
Yeah but you know we'll get full pages on 'Fey Human', 'Fey Halfling' and 'Fey Dwarf'. Heck I bet they'll do even worse and go 'Elves from the Feywild are High Elves!'
><
I think that the fey races will definitely get some kind of coverage. Though to what extent remains a mystery. One must also remember that Heroes of the Feywild was stated to be not just about the fey, but also about all races (well the PC races anyway) interact with the Feywild and it's natives.
Bah that's just means 'races from Heroes of the Fallen Kingdom' again like in Heroes of Shadow. Just like Shadar-kai got snubbed I bet there won't be a line about PC Eladrins!
Save for perhaps saying that they make good choices for certain classes in the Book.
Yeah but you know we'll get full pages on 'Fey Human', 'Fey Halfling' and 'Fey Dwarf'. Heck I bet they'll do even worse and go 'Elves from the Feywild are High Elves!'
><
Or we could get something from left field that hits us all like a truck, like PC goblins.
I can't imagine a better location to put them. They've got a whole kingdom there, after all. And we know there can be good Goblins in the game, what with the companion in that Solo Adventure.
Maybe Satyrs and Raptorans to round it up.
Goblins, I think have a reasonably high chance. And this is coming from someone who often doubts WotC would take the plunge when it comes to Monster Races.
Satyrs and Raptorans are both wild guesses, but are more reasonable, then say, Centaurs. Raptorans have been done before – in a book that had Killoren (aka Wilden) as a supplementary race. I think they were averse to the Flying issue, but I think, as they've been broading their options, they'd find they can do it, if they keep it within limitation (aka, no at-will flying or fly speed, but encounter power, and racial paragon path, etc). Satyrs are one of the last non-evil, medium-sized fey humanoids. Nymphs could also appear, but they don't carry as strong an archetypal appearance to them (hot women who are spirits of nature, but otherwise look like humans or elves, maybe with different tinted skin and dress).
Goblins, I think have a reasonably high chance. And this is coming from someone who often doubts WotC would take the plunge when it comes to Monster Races.
Well one must also consider that many fey are less evil and more amoral due to vicinity to the Court of Stars. So even a race usually considered evil may be an option.
the lashay...... nots very nice people them guys
True, but aren't they supposed to be superpowerful? Also they are tied pretty strongly to the Forgotten Realms, so much so that it may be hard to port them out into different setting. The same problem presents itself with the Avariel, they technically exist in the Realms but I don't remember seeing one given a stat block.
Sadly, I expect it in the form of support for the half-primal ranger builds from HotFK, maybe a half primal nature domain for warpriests, or a half primal transmuter school for wizards, or maybe a part primal subclass for paladins who want to get back to nature. Maybe a new essentials-style shapeshifting druid subclass. I don't expect anything at all for the seeker, shaman, barbarian, or warden, outside of maybe some general feats or paragon paths. Those classes aren't "essential".
the lashay...... nots very nice people them guys
True, but aren't they supposed to be superpowerful? Also they are tied pretty strongly to the Forgotten Realms, so much so that it may be hard to port them out into different setting. The same problem presents itself with the Avariel, they technically exist in the Realms but I don't remember seeing one given a stat block.
ummm.... not really the lashay were listed in the 3.x epic level handbook.
and they are arch fey.. which would connect them to the feywild
the lashay...... nots very nice people them guys
True, but aren't they supposed to be superpowerful? Also they are tied pretty strongly to the Forgotten Realms, so much so that it may be hard to port them out into different setting. The same problem presents itself with the Avariel, they technically exist in the Realms but I don't remember seeing one given a stat block.
ummm.... not really the lashay were listed in the 3.x epic level handbook.
and they are arch fey.. which would connect them to the feywild
Yes but that was 3e, and epic level. So far in 4e they have only been mentioned in the Forgotten Realms(as far as I'm aware). Where do they fit into the default setting? As well any creature that was described in an epic level accessory wouldn't be acceptable to play at heroic tier.
Again, the druid's wild shape can turn into a natural or fey beast, that's a pretty strong connection in my head. Yeah, I expect a primal presence in Heroes of the Feywild.
Sadly, I expect it in the form of support for the half-primal ranger builds from HotFK, maybe a half primal nature domain for warpriests, or a half primal transmuter school for wizards, or maybe a part primal subclass for paladins who want to get back to nature. Maybe a new essentials-style shapeshifting druid subclass. I don't expect anything at all for the seeker, shaman, barbarian, or warden, outside of maybe some general feats or paragon paths. Those classes aren't "essential".
There you go being pessimistic, do I need to get the pony?
But seriously, we don't know yet. We make get subclasses of primal classes that haven't been made already. Perhaps a new Shaman? Though it may add Arcane to the mix or vice-versa with an arcane class.
I'm gonna take a wild pessimistic guess and say... They'll have options to have a human that was born/raise in the feywild and call those 'Changeling'!
There you go being pessimistic, do I need to get the pony?
Yes. Yes you do. I think Fluttershy this time. She's sort of primal - in that she's in tune with nature, even if, much like the Scout or Hunter, she doesn't seem to have anything in particular to do with Primal spirits. But now I'm just nitpicking. ;)
I say we should actually get REALLY REALLY pessimistic, like depressingly so (would put us in a great mood for a Shadowfell game) then when the real book is release we'll be really happy!
I'm gonna take a wild pessimistic guess and say... They'll have options to have a human that was born/raise in the feywild and call those 'Changeling'!
The trick to that is to not prejudge the product negatively, or else even if you would have liked the stuff in it you'd still hate it. If you just have no expectations, then you can have many delightful surprises rather than feelings of disappointment that something you liked was in such a "terrible" product.
There you go being pessimistic, do I need to get the pony?
Yes. Yes you do. I think Fluttershy this time. She's sort of primal - in that she's in tune with nature, even if, much like the Scout or Hunter, she doesn't seem to have anything in particular to do with Primal spirits. But now I'm just nitpicking. ;)
Nature oriented is not necessarily spirit oriented is it.,,, is that were fey might comes in arcane nature.
There you go being pessimistic, do I need to get the pony?
Yes. Yes you do. I think Fluttershy this time. She's sort of primal - in that she's in tune with nature, even if, much like the Scout or Hunter, she doesn't seem to have anything in particular to do with Primal spirits. But now I'm just nitpicking. ;)
Nature oriented is not necessarily spirit oriented is it.,,, is that were fey might comes in arcane nature.
An astute observation. While not overtly primal, the fey are very nature oriented. A possibility, definitely a possibility.
Nature oriented is not necessarily spirit oriented is it.,,, is that were fey might comes in arcane nature.
I was mostly just making a jab at the scout and hunter's "primal" connection, rather then a guess at fey's connection to primal or arcane.
Though I do honestly expect half-primal builds of arcane subclasses in this book, and don't actually expect there to be any particular connection to primal spirits in their fluff or mechanics.
Nature oriented is not necessarily spirit oriented is it.,,, is that were fey might comes in arcane nature.
I was mostly just making a jab at the scout and hunter's "primal" connection, rather then a guess at fey's connection to primal or arcane.
I was ignoring the unproductive pooh pooh - ing and making speculative leaps instead. Arcane Nature distinct from spirit manipulation within a natural flavor..
Arcane means hidden or inscrutable ..the fey are exactly that.
I'll be very surprised if Bards don't receive substantial support in Heroes of the Feywild. It's probably the most appropriate class for the Feywild theme. I'd also expect that even if Bards are given some E-style subclasses that those would be more along the lines of the Mage in that they'd still have a full complement of encounter and daily powers, which the O-Bard could swipe just as easily.
Any Bard subclasses could very easily be dual-source Arcane/Primal, too, which would also be thematically fitting and directly invoke the 1e Bard's feel (minus the ridiculous triple-class entry, of course). Say, have a Skald which would continue the theme from the Bards of Wolfstone article and be mostly melee-based. The other dual-source Bard could be a Filid and be wholly implement-based, maybe even have features to make musical instruments the optimal choice for them.
Another possible idea for a Bard subclass might be the Jester, as a Controller version of the Bard. It would focus more on tricking enemies and imposing conditions rather than assisting allies, such as pratfall-type powers that slide and knock enemies prone.
However, I'll try to be optimistic and list what I think will be in the book.
-Classes/builds-
- Swordmage (Bladesinger)
- Bard
- Druid
- Warden
-New Powers-
Wizard
Bard
Druid
-Races-
- New Wilden Aspects?
- Maybe a bird-like race
- Shifters (new breeds?)
-Feats-
-Totem Expertise?
-Non-Beast Druid feats
as for the races....
will be either plant based or fey based.
we might actually see the anti-fey prc make a retrun as a paragon path with the feywild book too...
which would be a shame as I didnt care for that one at all....
I expect e-bards to be a weapon-using leader class with healer's word, pre-selected songs instead of choosable daily powers, and a single, build-dependant encounter power that scales in effect and uses throughout its career rather then multiple, choosable encounter powers.
Can't have an Implement Leader in Essential after all... for some reason?
And since it swings a sword its OBVIOUSLY Martial/Arcane! Right? That's what Martial is now, the 'swing a sword' power source. And Primal is the 'animal-themed and plant-themed Arcane' source.
--
The Feywild
A Discussion of the Feywild, the Arcane Power Source, and stuff like that.
New Classes
New Bard Subclass: Allowing them to bring Bards to the game.
New Wizard Subclass: A new type of Wizard that tends to be in the Feywild.
New Ranger Subclass: Based on the Beastmaster Ranger, Essentialised into its own thing.
New Class – Werewolf: A new class that changes roles over the course of combat.
New Class Options
New Warpriest (Cleric) Domain: could be Arcana, could be Wilderness, could be Moon. Depends which deity they want to emphasise in this book. I'd hedge my bets on Arcana though, since it would allow them to give Clerics powers with the Arcane keyword.
New Options for Hexblade Fey Pact: Just how we got a Winter Court version of the Warlock Fey Pact in the Court of the Stars article on the Prince of Frost, we'd get Fey Pact variations for each of the Fey Courts. We've already seen how this can work with the Lady of the White Well article providing an alternate Fey Pact for the Hexblade. The current Hexblade has a weapon derived from the Winter Court, so then need one for the Summer Court, the Green Court, the Gloaming Court, and the Sea Court still.
New Options for Enchanter and Illusionist Mages: More spells for Enchanters and Illusionists, the schools of Magic that are practiced most in the Feywild.
New Races
• Gnome
• some Medium Fey race (Satyr?)
• some race that often lives in the Feywild but isn't Fey (Goblin?)
Essentials Race Feywild Description
Dwarves in the Feywild
Elves in the Feywild
Eladrin in the Feywild
Halflings in the Feywild
Humans in the Feywild
Fey Options
A few little discussions first.
New Paragon Paths
10 New PPaths
New Epic Destinies
4 New EDests
Feats
Various new feats for the classes, subclasses, class options, and races.
Equipment
Equipment common in the Feywild, and new Arcane Equipment.
The break-down I'm seeing is possibly this:
The Feywild
A Discussion of the Feywild, the Arcane Power Source, and stuff like that.
New Classes
New Bard Subclass: Allowing them to bring Bards to the game.
New Wizard Subclass: A new type of Wizard that tends to be in the Feywild.
New Ranger Subclass: Based on the Beastmaster Ranger, Essentialised into its own thing.
New Class – Werewolf: A new class that changes roles over the course of combat.
New Class Options
New Warpriest (Cleric) Domain: could be Arcana, could be Wilderness, could be Moon. Depends which deity they want to emphasise in this book. I'd hedge my bets on Arcana though, since it would allow them to give Clerics powers with the Arcane keyword.
New Options for Hexblade Fey Pact: Just how we got a Winter Court version of the Warlock Fey Pact in the Court of the Stars article on the Prince of Frost, we'd get Fey Pact variations for each of the Fey Courts. We've already seen how this can work with the Lady of the White Well article providing an alternate Fey Pact for the Hexblade. The current Hexblade has a weapon derived from the Winter Court, so then need one for the Summer Court, the Green Court, the Gloaming Court, and the Sea Court still.
New Options for Enchanter and Illusionist Mages: More spells for Enchanters and Illusionists, the schools of Magic that are practiced most in the Feywild.
New Races
• Gnome
• some Medium Fey race (Satyr?)
• some race that often lives in the Feywild but isn't Fey (Goblin?)
Essentials Race Feywild Description
Dwarves in the Feywild
Elves in the Feywild
Eladrin in the Feywild
Halflings in the Feywild
Humans in the Feywild
Shadow Options
A few little discussions first.
New Paragon Paths
10 New PPaths
New Epic Destinies
4 New EDests
Feats
Various new feats for the classes, subclasses, class options, and races.
Equipment
Equipment common in the Feywild, and new Arcane Equipment.
Did you mean Fey Options?
I don't know what you're talking about, hatta. >_>
Riiiight
Alternately Oreads could make an interesting race as a group of mountain nymphs maybe unique in nymphdom for having two genders.
The more I think about it, the more I hope for something off the wall... like a fey build for sorcerer, or barbarian or somethin
The more I think about it, the more I hope for something off the wall... like a fey build for sorcerer, or barbarian or somethin
I'm wanting an Primal/Arcane subclass for the Shaman. I think it would be an interesting idea.
The more I think about it, the more I hope for something off the wall... like a fey build for sorcerer, or barbarian or somethin
I'm wanting an Primal/Arcane subclass for the Shaman. I think it would be an interesting idea.
going with the star pact warlock fluff, maybe a stargazer shaman who gets a little crazy....
"Player's Options Heroes of Shadow focusses on characters that fight evil in ways that make others cringe. In addition to exploring the nature of the shadow power source, this book presents races, classes, feats, powers, and other options aimed at players hungry to play the archetypical antihero with a dark edge."
Here's what they have for Heroes of the Feywild:
"This book contains exciting new character builds and options that are thematically rooted to the Feywild, a wild and verdant plane of arcane splendor, full of dangerous and whimsical creatures. Characters who trace their origins or backgrounds to the Feywild gain access to unique feats, powers, and mechanics. The book explores what makes fey-themed characters so fun and distinct."
So: Heroes of Shadow- races, classes, feats, powers, other options... and that's exactly what we got. Let's look at HotF: builds, options, origins/backgrounds-based stuff, feats, powers, mechanics.
Based on that, I'm thinking no new races, and no new classes. Whether I like that or not is irrelevant. It does say builds and options, though. Probably some Fey-themed E-builds of existing classes, most likely arcane &/or primal. I hoping not wizard/mage or warlock/hexblade/binder- those two (five?) have enough support and variety to be their own game, in my opinion.
Anyway, it looks like there will be more support for fey-based races; eladrin, elves, drow, gnomes, wilden.
What really caught my eye is the word "mechanics," especially since it is in a list of "unique" things, according to the description. As much as I hope for non-DS themes, the idea of an altogether new mechanic is at the very least intriguing.
In short, we're looking at e-builds, backgrounds, feats, powers, PPs, EDs, themes (I hope!)... and perhaps something new.
Okay, here's what Wizards wrote for Heroes of Shadow:
"Player's Options Heroes of Shadow focusses on characters that fight evil in ways that make others cringe. In addition to exploring the nature of the shadow power source, this book presents races, classes, feats, powers, and other options aimed at players hungry to play the archetypical antihero with a dark edge."
Here's what they have for Heroes of the Feywild:
"This book contains exciting new character builds and options that are thematically rooted to the Feywild, a wild and verdant plane of arcane splendor, full of dangerous and whimsical creatures. Characters who trace their origins or backgrounds to the Feywild gain access to unique feats, powers, and mechanics. The book explores what makes fey-themed characters so fun and distinct."
So: Heroes of Shadow- races, classes, feats, powers, other options... and that's exactly what we got. Let's look at HotF: builds, options, origins/backgrounds-based stuff, feats, powers, mechanics.
Based on that, I'm thinking no new races, and no new classes. Whether I like that or not is irrelevant. It does say builds and options, though. Probably some Fey-themed E-builds of existing classes, most likely arcane &/or primal. I hoping not wizard/mage or warlock/hexblade/binder- those two (five?) have enough support and variety to be their own game, in my opinion.
Anyway, it looks like there will be more support for fey-based races; eladrin, elves, drow, gnomes, wilden.
What really caught my eye is the word "mechanics," especially since it is in a list of "unique" things, according to the description. As much as I hope for non-DS themes, the idea of an altogether new mechanic is at the very least intriguing.
In short, we're looking at e-builds, backgrounds, feats, powers, PPs, EDs, themes (I hope!)... and perhaps something new.
Don't count your chickens before they hatch, they might not be chickens. I pretty much toss up the difference to the vagaries of blurb writing.
True, blurbs are vague. But this is a thread on speculation...
Sure is! That's my speculation. You may have avoided it by replacing the instances of "are" with the word may or might.
The more I think about it, the more I hope for something off the wall... like a fey build for sorcerer, or barbarian or somethin
I'm wanting an Primal/Arcane subclass for the Shaman. I think it would be an interesting idea.
fochlucan lyrist for bard
i) it would be a missed opportunity not to expand on the wilden in this book;
ii) divine/arcane dual power source bard with much correlon flavor;
iii) as i stated above, fochlucan lyrist as primal/arcane dual power source bard;
iv) fluff on eladrin and gnomes is a no brainer;
v) whole tribes of minotaurs have been subjugated by fomorians to build and patrol extensive labyrinths/mazes that surround the subterrainean fomorian kingdoms; and
vi) lo and behold, correlon maintains his own demesne within the feywild (remember, the primal spirits are not as strong in the echo planes, so they are not able to keep correlon out of the feywild, nor the raven queen out of the shadowfell.).
I really don't want more Wizard/Mage stuff.
. . . I really don't want more Wizard/Mage stuff.
with a book about the home of the children of correlon, i wouldn't build my hopes up if i were you.
. . . I really don't want more Wizard/Mage stuff.
with a book about the home of the children of correlon, i wouldn't build my hopes up if i were you.
We might get a Fey Sorcerer, I'm people sure would like that.
. . . I really don't want more Wizard/Mage stuff.
with a book about the home of the children of correlon, i wouldn't build my hopes up if i were you.
We might get a Fey Sorcerer, I'm people sure would like that.
While that would be cool, I doubt it would happen. Most fey are more on the side of crafty magic than blasty magic. Besides, a book like this is more likely to supplement existing classes/subclasses, not introduce them.
. . . I really don't want more Wizard/Mage stuff.
with a book about the home of the children of correlon, i wouldn't build my hopes up if i were you.
We might get a Fey Sorcerer, I'm people sure would like that.
While that would be cool, I doubt it would happen. Most fey are more on the side of crafty magic than blasty magic. Besides, a book like this is more likely to supplement existing classes/subclasses, not introduce them.
They already said there would be a new class, a dual-role class at that.
and many have dibs on it being the lycan class
My point was that was a confirmed new class, as Stormcrash didn't think there'd be one.
. . . I really don't want more Wizard/Mage stuff.
with a book about the home of the children of correlon, i wouldn't build my hopes up if i were you.
We might get a Fey Sorcerer, I'm people sure would like that.
While that would be cool, I doubt it would happen. Most fey are more on the side of crafty magic than blasty magic. Besides, a book like this is more likely to supplement existing classes/subclasses, not introduce them.
They already said there would be a new class, a dual-role class at that.
Oh yeah. Haha, my bad.
I still find Sorcerer unlikely, but who knows.
- The new class they talked about (my guess it has to do with faeries)
- A bard sub-class, likely called the Minstrel, that is done mostly wrong.
- A warlock sub-class based entirely around cursing things, likely there will be Fey and Star pacts for it.
- The eldritch knight, almost completely reprinted from Dragon.
- An arcane domain for warpriests that uses, you guessed it, arcane and divine powers.
- A feywild-themed ranger sub-class, likely an arcane hunter of sorts.
- Even more fey-pact hexblades (Including a Dragon reprint! YAY!)
- Fey-pact for the binder warlock. (Possible)
- Random, but possibly awesome, paragon paths and epic destinies.
- A neo-racial write up for the Gnome.
- Copious amounts of feat support for eladrin.
- Feats a'course.
The way I see it, Heroes of the Feywild will look exactly like Heroes of Shadow, unless HoS tanks in sales. I don't see that as a bad thing, and I actually like essentials a lot and I don't mean to be negative, but I make a lot of the serious design mistakes they are continually prone to.
As for wilden and sorcerer, wilden support is extremely unlikely, and 4e sorcerer support will come with a 0.0000000001% chance. The wilden seems to me at least to be an unpopular race, (I may be wrong here, granted) and are more importantly not from traditional D&D, which is the focus of essentials.
As for wilden and sorcerer, wilden support is extremely unlikely, and 4e sorcerer support will come with a 0.0000000001% chance. The wilden seems to me at least to be an unpopular race, (I may be wrong here, granted) and are more importantly not from traditional D&D, which is the focus of essentials.
afaik they wre created for the 3.x races of the wi6ld book and tha avariel have been around for much longer.
and no the elven subraces were not nuked, they just were recategorized....
they present the Boggle, appearing in the next Monster Vault. They are described as the progenitor of goblins and banderhobbs. Is this evidence of a potential PC race write-up for the Goblin in Heroes of the Feywild. Possibly, as WotC has said they are considering more monstrous race write-ups.
HoS had (comparison) HoF possibilities <---edit
1 executioner (new build) nature domain
2 blackguard (new build) arcane domain
3 vampire (new class) dual role class
4 binder (new build) controller bard
5 gloom hexblade (new build) fey binder
5.5 warlock spells (powers) warlock spells
6 death domain (new build) feyblood sorcerer
6.5 cleric prayers (powers) sorcerer spells
7 wizard spells (powers) druid evocations
7.5 necro/nethermancy (new builds) fall/winter sentinel
8 paragon paths "
9 epic destinies "
10 feats "