In my humble opinion, such posts are forgetting the vast treasure trove of role playing coolness of the last 30 years.
Some class Ideas that could someday "Be":
* unarmored fighter types: acrobats, pirates, swashbucklers, duelists,
(huge potential here)
* Alternate forms of fighter: Aristocrats, knights, samurai,
(unique powers or special abilities)
*other forms of rogue: spellfilcher, scout-archer, nightblade, acrobat, blade dancer, jester-juggler, the expert (sage?), alchemist-apothecary.
when it comes to feats, there are more than one book that offered nothing but hundreds of new feats... many that would readilly become powers of some sort, others that could be special class abilities.
***************************************************
it should be noted that the psionics word is mentioned once at the end of the Deva race article. So, psionics may be on the back burner of some game designers minds.
Obviously Psionics would have to be massively RE-INVENTED from concept up as the whole 3.0/3.5 psionics debacle was -lets face it- a bad joke. Cutting and pasting buzz words over wizzard class stuff? who thunk that up?
4e has a lot going for it in terms of balancing mechanics, but psionics isn't about how much damage my character can do. Psionic classes have been something of the utility belt that spell casters couldn't be. Mages needed the web spell more than levitate. Mages needed lightning bolt more than invisibility,,,
unless you had magic items to cover the optional focus of your spell slot. I.e. wand of magic missles, wand of web, wand of fireball, wand of lightning. Staff of power. amulet of blah, rings of this-that-the other thang.
So My hope is that 2nd edition psionics gets a 4th ed make over. class balance, power balance, 4e has it, however a psionic character should offer the adventuring party a focus on utility, on options...
I don't mean the ability to do any kind of damage descriptor on a whim, or narrow elemental specialization that will cripple the class.
If you can free your mind from the static "I create a bolt of mystical force that deals 1d4+1 per 4 levels"- and realize what the potentials are for truely moving things with your mind...
then psionics might get a fair shake. when it comes to 2nd ed psionics the one thing that should never come back... is a random roll for wild talents.
perhaps the biggest reason for why psionics was hated as much as it was.
1st level characters walking arround with the "disintergrate" psionic power, sheesh. what a D.M. nightmare.
The psionic character should be distinctly different from any other character class out: the warrior is all about might and mastering technique with weapons. The rogue is all about daring and well thievery. the mage- arcane spells, the cleric- faith in the divine.
the psionicist was about personal power that came from within, strange powers that did not need components, runes, and finger wagging. psionics was personal, and very limited. a psionicist player had to be tactical about the use of their power.
that is why the psionicist deserves to be a part of 4e.
A psionic defender, should in my opinion, be based on anticipating what a foe can do - my hope is the elocator prestige class becomes a class of it's own, eating the psychic warrior and taking it's stuff, what there was of it. You would then have a very mobile defender that locks onto a target to read their mind and stop them from attacking foes by intercepting their attacks by using a temporal acceleration. I doubt it would ever happen since I'm not one of the developers, but I'd love to see that.
Honestly, I think 3.x did a much better job of making psionics acceptable in game than previous editions because they were pretty well balanced with the other classes - a philosophy that 4e has taken to heart, and you'll notice by the fact that the 4e fighter remains very useful at any level.
Also, if you look at the classes in the second Player's Handbook, you'll see that the powers that be at WotC have decided to venture farther away from the abilities seen in the first PHB and try different methods of accomplishing the roles, a good example is strikers. The new ones - especially the Avenger, accomplish it different from the warlock, ranger, and rogue who all just add extra dice if a certain condition is met.
Sometimes, I worry about too many classes being written for the sole purpose flavor. What I mean is that a perfectly good samurai could be made with a Fighter or Paladin, but simply describe different fluff for the powers and simply relabel whatever weapon you're using.
Am I the only one who feels this way?
Am I the only one who feels this way?
Nope. I do feel there's a large breadth of mechanical possibilities left in class design in 4e, however. Elocaters & soulknives should be cool additions to the system, with decent flavor to wash the mechanics down.
Nice vid, BTW.
I think Eberron did the most for doing psionics proper justice under the circumstances.
I do feel that many "class" concepts really are best served by a simple reflavoring and rearranging of existing classes...much like the method in the 3.5 DMG regarding the Undead Stalker or the Witch...but there is still plenty of room for unique concepts such as psionics and incarnum (although I actually hate incarnum, it was fairly unique).
-Ardent = Psionic Defender
-Shaper/Wilder = Psionic Controller
-Telepath/Kineticist = Psionic Striker
let us turn this thread into a "Psionics Jam". I.e. we start brain storming what we believe might work... who knows. maybe this thread will get read and some ideas might be considered.
My first recomendation, An empty cup.
which is to say, FORGET everything about psionics, before we start.
where to start? go with your gut feeling, and perhaps research the topic;
even if you have to depend on some time-life "collection of the unkown",
now lets look at a 4th ed considerations:
1. classes have a flavor, a feel, that is a player's unconcious summation of their experiences while playing a character of that class.
2. However, notice that the new writing style of the character classes makes no assumption about the campaign setting. For example- characters can have almost any origin and will cope with any number of advantages and disadvantages of the campaign world presented by the D.M. If we were to write something about psionics we must keep an over-arcing theme in mind, without painting them into a small game world corner...
what not to do: hunted and feared by all psionic characters must avoid the holy inquisition, dissection by wizzards (seeking to steal their power) and the lowly commoner who doesn't understand that they have a gift...
while complelling and potentially detailed this puts players in a very uncomfortable possition- aka, 1st edition "thief" meets "paladin".
Crystals and Ectoplasm are here to stay, as they were something uniquely flavoured back in 3e for psionics, who can bet on them keeping those elements around to make psionics feel different from arcane and other sources. In fact 3e did a lot to make psionics more "standalone" even if it did succeeded or failed to varying degrees with classes such as the Ardent. And then there's the fact that Bruce Cordell who designed much of 3e psionics still works for WotC. He already got one of his pet interests, the Far Realm, into 4e, his ideas of psionics is probably not that far behind.
I think some variety of telekinetic should definitely be the controller, combined with the shaper's abilities of summoning ectoplasm and the whole crystal focus that I thought was very well done in the complete psion for 3.5.
Combining the telepath, seer, and empath would make the most sense for the leader, but as noted above the egoist's healing should really remain separate.
The soulknife is all but assured to be the striker, maybe grabbing some of the other niche markets like the elocator and nomad.
I hope psionics gets the prime spot with four next PHB, and not Ki. I would be happy with shadow and psionics both getting three (so we could get a shadow ninja/assassin, a necromancer and an illusionist), but I think that it's unlikely to be so even, as that would only leave one class of each for the PHB IV. We're more likely to see psionics tapped out first, as it was always the fourth system, or fifth now with primal having it's own thing as opposed to being divided up among the others. PHB IV will have two shadow, two ki, and four elemental. Maybe gearing up for Dark Sun with the elemental?
1.) empath would make the most sense for the leader
2.) The soulknife is all but assured to be the striker
1.) One of the designers has already mentioned the Empath as a Psionic Leader.
2.) As Ki is the power source of the soul, they would have to change the name of the class to Mindknife/blade or something.
The thing that would put me off psy in 4e? Making the combat role power type dependant. There's no reason why a Psy controller should be stuck with mind-control or telekinesis. It's like saying that wizards should get fire spells whereas sorcerers get cold.
Soulknife should be a feat letting Psy-characters use thier implement for weapon attacks.
I hated the psychic warrior until I really examined the powers they had available. It's actually a really great class with the least evocative name in the history of D&D. It should really be incorporated into 4th edition as the psionic defender, preferably by eating the egoist and getting all of the powers related to body alteration. Some healing abilities like the paladin would not be out of character, absorbing disease and damage and then healing oneself is a long time staple of psionic powers in D&D, and he could make a good secondary leader or striker.
I have to say I had much of the opposite feelings towards the class. Granted when I was first getting into it it was simply because it was the shortest route to the Soulknife PrC. When I started realizing that it was so linked with those damnable claw powers I lost whatever vague interest I had leftover when Soulknife became a base class. Body manipulation doesn't seem exactly psychic to me, a defender concept that came to me when thinking on possibilities for the New Psi I came to a manifester who utilized short burst precog and surface thought reading to know what a foe was going to do before they did it, defending their allies by preventing this.
Some people don't want psionic classes to be stuck with mostly telepathy powers...but that's what Psychic powers are...telepathy. There's a certain degree of psychokinesis...but most certainly NOT that garbage that was in 3.x. Crystal Shard? Energy Ball? Are you kidding? That's not psychic...that's a wizard in psion's clothing.
I don't even like ectoplasm for ghosts...let alone Psychics.
I don't mind force effects of the widest variety possible...but I draw the line at fireballs, conjurations, and transmutations. Necromancy is ok though...to a point, anyway...there's nothing wrong with psychokinetically animating a corpse or other object and leaving a "piece" of your mind with it to keep it running.
portals, teleportation and the like are alright too...just altering space and time through psychokinetic force.
I don't want even so much as a hint of an idea of wizard in any psionic class...
On a closing note...soulknives rule, and if they have to change the name because of Ki, I hope it ends up just as cool.
(Yes, as far as I'm concerned, the rest of D&D exists solely to support Psionics...most specifially, Psionics in Eberron. I'm biased, sue me.)
Kineticist (Psionic Striker)
[indent]Kineticists use the power of their minds to create physical forces in the world around them, and create potent offensive effects. Most Kineticists manifest particular strength in either the manipulation of whole objects, or of the material that makes up the world around them.
Primary stat: Wisdom
Implements: Weapons (Telekinetic) or Psi Crystals (Pyrokinetic)
Telekinetics use their minds to wield melee weapons remotely. They receive weapon powers with limited built in reach, and can animate weapons using a mechanic comparable to summoning. They can also use their powers more directly, to move, immobilize, or otherwise hamper enemeis.
Specialty Feature: A Telekinetic uses melee weapons as an implement, rather than a Psi Crystal. He gains proficiency in all simple and military melee weapons.
Main Damage Types: Force, Thunder, Weapon
Secondary Role: Controller
Secondary Stat: Charisma
Pyrokinetics employ their psionic abilities to manipulate matter and shift energy between objects and spaces. They use crystals as implements, and their powers create effects including both zones and targeted effects, which can be maintained with concentration.
Specialty Feature: Once per turn as a minor action a Pyrokinetic may maintain a number of powers with the Persist: Minor rule equal to his Intelligence modifier.
Main Damage Types: Force, Fire, Cold
Secondary Role: Striker
Secondary Stat: Intelligence
[/indent]
Telepath (Psionic Controller)
[indent]Telepaths use their psionic abilities to touch the minds of their foes directly, and influence their actions. Particularly willful Telepaths may dominate their foes through sheer mental strength, while the more subtle tend use a gentler touch, misleading their enemies in ways that may go entirely unnoticed until far too late.
Primary Stat: Charisma
Implements: Psi Crystals, Orbs, Rods
Masters use their considerable psychic strength to seize control of the minds of others. Their powers can compel enemies to attack each-other, assist the Master's allies, and move about the battle field. He can also use his powers to direct his allies and force them to action.
Specialty Feature: Once per turn as a free action, the Master may have one creature effected by one of his Charm abilities (harmful or beneficial) take a move action.
Main Damage Types: Psychic, Charm
Secondary Stat: Wisdom
Secondary Role: Leader
Deceivers twist the minds of others, creating illusions only they can see, blinding them to the obvious, and clouding their thoughts. Their powers apply a variety of negative and limiting effects, and can also create phantasmal foes that distract, and occupy specific enemies.
Specialty Feature: Once per turn make a secondary attack against Will to inflict a penalty to the defence of choice equal to Int modifier until the end of his next turn.
Main Damage Types: Psychic, Illusion
Secondary Stat: Intelligence
Secondary Role: Controller
[/indent]
Adept (Psionic Defender)
[indent]Adepts use their psychic gifts to enhance their perception of the world around them, predicting attacks and taking swift, even preemptive action against their enemies. They may use these gifts to strike with supernatural speed, or to evade the blows of their enemies, depending on their path.
Primary Stat: Dexterity
Implements: Weapons
Seekers user their powers to guide their blades to the foe's heart. Their meta-abilities use their at-will powers as a primary attack, adding additional effects or benefits. They also use Disciplines - psionic stances - to enhance their offensive power.
Special Feature: Once per turn when the Seeker attacks an enemy he has marked, before the die is rolled, he may elect to take a bonus to the attack roll equal to his Charisma bonus.
Main Damage Types: Weapon
Secondary Stat: Charisma
Secondary Role: Striker
Evasives use their precognitive powers to avoid the enemy's blows less through sheer speed than through careful planning. They combine defensive meta-abilities and disciplines with abilities which impart these benefits on those they protect.
Special Feature: Each encounter, before initiative is rolled, an Evasive selects one of his defenses to receive a bonus equal to his Wisdom bonus for that encounter.
Main Damage Types: Weapon
Secondary Stat: Wisdom
Secondary Role: Defender
[/indent]
Empath (Psionic Leader)
[indent]Empaths have the power to connect with objects and places, and bond with enemies and allies alike. Aggressive Empaths use this bond to force pain and overwhelming emotion on their foes, while those of a gentler bent use it to lift others' burdens and enhance their allies' strength.
Primary Stat: Wisdom
Implements: Psi Crystals
Hateweavers use their powers to channel negative emotions and even physical injury from their allies to their enemies. Their powers often have two effects when they hit, one benefiting an ally, the other imparting some negative effect on a foe.
Special Feature: As a minor action, bond with an enemy you can see until the end of your next turn. You gain a bonus to hit your bonded enemy equal to your Charisma bonus.
Main Damage Types: Psychic, Necrotic, Healing
Secondary Stat: Charisma
Secondary Role: Striker
Confessors channel negative energy from their allies to themselves, and rely on their personal strength to overcome it. Their offensive powers steal enemies' strength, beneficial effects, or even whole abilities and put them to use.
Special Feature: As a free action once per turn, bond with an ally until the end of your next turn. Whenever the bonded character spends a healing surge, you may spend one of yours instead.
Main Damage Types: Psychic, Necrotic, Healing
Secondary Stat: Constitution
Secondary Role: Leader
[/indent]
Psionics, underlying theme, controller (like arcane), but with a power point mechanic that acts somewhat like the channel divinity.
Kineticist: Striker. Many pushing effects, ongoing damage, slows. Wilder as a PP.
Shaper: I like this as the controller because really the name is just perfect for the job. Telepath I would think of as one of the pp's (That obviously focuses on psychic attacks) But could also summon, etc.
Empath: Healer, maybe with some upper end healing but the Empath has to sacrifice something.
Bastion: Defender with some area effects and denials.
I detested the following regarding 3.x psionics. Ectoplasm, Egoists, most of the Kineticist powers, Psychic Warriors, Wilders.
Some people don't want psionic classes to be stuck with mostly telepathy powers...but that's what Psychic powers are...telepathy. There's a certain degree of psychokinesis...but most certainly NOT that garbage that was in 3.x. Crystal Shard? Energy Ball? Are you kidding? That's not psychic...that's a wizard in psion's clothing.
I don't even like ectoplasm for ghosts...let alone Psychics.
I don't mind force effects of the widest variety possible...but I draw the line at fireballs, conjurations, and transmutations. Necromancy is ok though...to a point, anyway...there's nothing wrong with psychokinetically animating a corpse or other object and leaving a "piece" of your mind with it to keep it running.
portals, teleportation and the like are alright too...just altering space and time through psychokinetic force.
I don't want even so much as a hint of an idea of wizard in any psionic class...
Some parts of the psion were pretty much "wizards with a different casting mechanic". Hopefully, the new psionic classes will focus on their more unique qualities.
For instance, a Psionic Controller (whether it's called the Psion, Esper, or something else) would have the following two builds:
Mentalist Psion(Prime Stats - Intelligence and Charisma): Primarily deals psychic damage. Control is achieved mostly through conditions and mind control. For instance, making targets attack their allies or stunning them with mental force. Based primarily on the "Telepath" build of the 3E Psion.
Doppelgangers are especially suited for the mentalist build, though gnomes also work well with deceiving others.
Kinetic Psion(Prime Stats - Intelligence and Constitution): Primarily deals force damage (with a few fire and lightning powers for the pyrokinetics). Control is achieved through repositioning enemies and allies. For instance, throwing around enemies with telekinetic force. Based primarily on the "Kineticist" build of the 3E Psion.
Githyanki are the ideal kinetic psions. Half-elves or deva also work well here, if less than ideal.
One thing that would be useful is some sort of cantrip-like mechanic for basic psychic powers like mind-reading and telekinesis(which would work similarly to the mage hand spell). Overall, powers from the psionic source should be somewhat more subtle than arcane powers; the flashy exploding powers are more a shtick for the latter.
I have to say I had much of the opposite feelings towards the class. Granted when I was first getting into it it was simply because it was the shortest route to the Soulknife PrC.
The Soulknife was a base class, was it not?
I agree that the name Psychic Warrior is too bland. And as I've said before, I doubt we will get a Psionic class called Psion in 4th Ed, as that would be like calling an Arcane class Arca.
The Soulknife was a base class, was it not?
It was both. In the 3.0 psionics book, the soulknife was a prestige class. In the 3.5 psionics book it was expanded to a base class.
And as I've said before, I doubt we will get a Psionic class called Psion in 4th Ed, as that would be like calling an Arcane class Arca.
Yes but, Arca doesn't mean or sound like anything. Psion does sound like something, it sounds like Scion and thus it's more likely to be used as a class name. Also it's been a term used in other RPGs already such as White Wolf's Trinity, and there's an alien race in DC comics called the Psion.
Given that you have this whole POL campaign assumptions with it's fallen empires, having a class that sounds exactly like Scion (which means son/daughter, inheritor or descendant) fits in really, really well.
Yes but, Arca doesn't mean or sound like anything. Psion does sound like something, it sounds like Scion and thus it's more likely to be used as a class name.
Okay, how about a Martial class called Martia?
And speaking about Trinity. That game actually precedes 3e (though 2e with it's different disciplines came out nearly a decade before Trinity), and in many ways can be seen as a bit of a template for how 3e psionics turned out. The different orders based on different continents and countries certainly correspond to different disciplines.
Okay, how about a Martial class called Martia?
Martia doesn't sound like anything, and it still doesn't change the fact that Psion sounds like Scion.
Martia doesn't sound like anything,
Yes it does, it sounds like the name of one of the Brady sisters!
Chainsaw, I love the fluff you've put out for the Adept, but the mechanics seem a bit wonky with what we've seen so far. Biggest thing that stands out is that the 'Seekers' get a bonus to hit, a pretty large one all things considered. Also, personally I think i'd go with putting Wis as primary, with dex as secondary on the seekers, not sure what for the evasives.
Yeah, the unique benefit for the Seeker (and many of the others really) could probably use adjustment and development to avoid issues. The balance considerations really depend on how he marks his targets though. I mostly included them as conceptual starting points in any case.
The thinking behind the choice of Dex is that both types would need it to act on their insights. Conceptually they are 'less psychic' than the other psionic classes, and use their powers to enhance the physical, rather than the other way around, so the secondary stats reflected the actual psychic focus.
The only good part was my mechanic for psionic focus. I had designed the class to be a sort of Elocator, and a striker. Psionic focus worked like this: You started every combat with psionic focus. As long as you had it, you dealt an extra 1d6 damage with your at will and encounter attacks. Your daily attacks received a significant boost if you expended your psionic focus when you launched them.
This encouraged you to save your daily attacks and use them as finishers, and to space them out across the course of the day.
I really liked the mechanic. My efforts on the class power list never came together, unfortunately.
Okay, how about a Martial class called Martia?
I guess I'm just going to have to repeat the following in this thread.
First of all, Psion is the ONLY explicitly named psionic class currently in a printed book (PHB, pg 54, in the "Power Sources" sidebar). In that same sidebar, the Barbarian and Druid are named as primal classes. The Monk is named as a ki class (and has been confirmed by WotC). The Psion is named as a psionic class. Thus, evidence seems to indicate that it has a very good chance of seeing print with that name.
Second, psions are to psionics as magi are to magic. It is not outside the realms of possibility, has an internally historic precedent, and does indeed give the auditory impression of "scion". Yes, we should have a Prim class, and a Divi class, and and Arca class, and a Shad class, and a Elem class, and a K class.
I understand you personally don't like the name. Nevertheless, the precedent, history in the game, and printed evidence are all present.With regards to the OP, I see the various psionic classes as being the kings of the single-target effect, and basically ALL be secondary or primary controllers. Psionic controllers, for example, won't have as many AoE control effects, but will instead have more potent single-target control effects. Psionic strikers won't deal as much damage as rangers et al, or splash into as much AoE as Warlocks, but will instead deal rock-solid single-target damage combined with nasty status effects. Psionic defenders will likewise deal nasty status effects with their AoOs, and likely focus on single target (and likely many self-targeting) buffs. Psionic leaders won't do the AoE buffs or heals, but will instead dish out more potent single-target buffs and heals. At least, that's how I see psionics being different from the current array or power sources and their classes, in addition to the various nifty utilitarian powers, like telekinesis, telepathy, clairsentience, and so on.
What do you guys think?
... allowing psionic "rituals" that take longer but that only require expensive foci (like crystals) rather than components and that have a different tact (such as allowing a psionic divination ritual to summon a shade that will possess the psion and answer questions through him or her).
The bolded part I like. A lot. That alone could give psionic classes quite a different out-of-combat feel from the current magic-based ritual casters. Instead of paying for ritual components every time they use a ritual, each "type" of psionic ritual has an expensive focus you need to use, with higher level rituals requiring more expensive foci (that are usable with the lower level rituals, ala the scrying orbs for existing scrying rituals). I don't even know that they'd need to add more time to most of the rituals.
Psionic classes, then, have a considerably higher up-front cost, but a lower long-term cost. The more they use their rituals, the more efficient they get, in terms of cost-to-use ratio. A traditional ritual caster, conversely, has a smaller up-front cost, but a larger cost-to-use ratio as they use more rituals.
Yeah, that seems really cool, and in-line with how psionics should get progressively easier as time goes on. Magic, while easier to cast (the user's ritual checks get higher, after all, to use the same ritual), still requires the same material components, the same frog tongues and salamander scales and black pearls and residuum, and so on, each time you use the ritual. The material cost doesn't go away. The psionic characters, though, are just using the power of their mind, and focusing it through the same object with more skill and practice as time goes on.
Me likey. :D
Consider also, that in RL psychic abilities are essentially a modern understanding of magic-people went from believing in the ability to call up shades from the netherworld using a summoning circle and a pentacle to believing in the ability of a seer with an inherited gift channeling said shade from the netherworld. While psychic abilities may not exist in real life, this overlap is something that needs to be admitted to-and it's fine that there is at a little bit of overlap (primal and divine have some similar conceptual overlap). What's important is focusing on both how the two sources are the same and how they are different (such as allowing the "Psion" or "Kineticist" to burn their foes, but by moving existing fire rather than by conjuring it, or allowing psionic "rituals" that take longer but that only require expensive foci (like crystals) rather than components and that have a different tact (such as allowing a psionic divination ritual to summon a shade that will possess the psion and answer questions through him or her).
What do you guys think?
I can see the connection you speak of...but in terms of legend and myth, magic is pretty clearly all about mumbo-jumbo and symbols of power. Psychics might be mystics, but they don't use props, gibberish, or spiffy doodles. Yes...I mock magic...frequently...it's a personal flaw I've learned to enjoy.
There's nothing inherently wrong with the notion of having a pyrokineticist MOVE fire instead of create it...except in those situations in-game when there's no fire to be had. It arbitrarily neutralizes one of his powers by chance alone. Sure, he could start a fire normally...or if someone else uses a fire-based power, swipe some of that...but it's touchy, I think. I don't mind them "creating" a fire of their own. I just didn't like the "Energy" powers. They were ridiculous. They were excessively versatile versions of wizard spells, and nothing more. The magic-users had to take a feat to change a fireball into a lightning, cold, or acid ball and they could only pick one of those when they took the feat, having to take the feat again for yet another type...while a Psion simply had to choose any of them, AS he was manifesting it!
I think they should focus more on force effects than anything else though, when it comes to powers that affect things physically. Any damage type's ok...in moderation...except Radiant and Necrotic. I hated that about Complete Psionic. I liked psionics being kept out of all that positive-negative crap (though I did like some of the negative energy spells from Libris Mortis and BoVD...mmmm, necrotic cysts).
I'm not sure what I think about the idea of them paying through the nose to be capable of using a ritual (buying an expensive focus), only to basically perform the ritual for free later on. I don't think even an ncreased casting time justifies that. Money's not much of a balancing factor unless it prevents you from doing it all the time. I mean, once a psion actually had the focus, he could do the ritual constantly from then on if he wanted...he could actually get a pretty ridiculous return on his investment enchanting magic items...since all rituals are available to be learned by all characters who meet the prereqs. But, at least people are thinkin about it, so that's a good thing.
I think variant mechanics of any sort should be avoided like the plague...but that's just me. They haven't happened yet in 4e as far as I know, and I don't think they should.
Class Feature for Telekineticists
Intercepting Mind: once per round as an immediate reaction, when an ally is attacked, you may replace one of the ally's defenses with your own if that defense is high enough that it would cause the attack to miss. However, you take half damage from this attack, even though the attack misses.
Power
Something Within - Telepath Attack 1
Your enemy tries to dig out the horror growing within them... but it's all in their mind.
At-will*Psionic, varies, implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Target: One Creature
Attack: Will vs Will
Hit: The target attacks itself with a weapon/unarmed, or any at-will power it has that does damage, doing their normal damage with that weapon or power.
Feat (Power?)
Enervating Boost: You augment an attack or healing power by a number of extra dice equal to your key ability modifier. However, you take damage equal to half as many hitpoints you do in damage or healing with the extra dice.
Edit: Considering I'm not familiar with every feature, power, or feat in the book, I hope none of the above duplicate any other class feature, power, or feat.
Psionic Feat, Utility Power, or Class Feature
Augment: You may spend up to your daily number of healing surges to augment your powers. As a minor action, for every two surges you spend, you boost a power's attack bonus, damage, healing, defense bonus, or duration by 1. That's +1 to an attack, or defense bonus, 1 extra die of damage, or healing, or 1 extra turn for the duration of a power. Spending a healing surge in this way doesn’t restore hit points, unless used with a power that restores them.
Augment doesn't stack with Enervating Boost.
I think we'll see Astral Constructs return, though it'll be powers like "Summon Iridescent Serpent" or "Summon Anathemic Carapace" and will appear in Psionic Power rather than any of the PHB's since it seems like that's what they're doing with Wizard and Druid summoning.
And don't assume for a second that some of the stranger prestige classes are completely disappearing. After all the Green Star Adept (Complete Arcane), a prestige class that I'm sure no one ever bothered with, became a 29th level Warden power. It's possible that some of the weird psionic prestige classes may come back as psionic paragon paths, or paths for other classes, after all Storm Disciple already exists as the Stormwarden path for Rangers.
Psion Uncarnate is a prestige class that I feel is the top candidate for getting a promotion to an Epic Destiny.
I like Somoflange's suggestion and have incorporated it into the augment power for psionics thusly:
Psionic Feat, Utility Power, or Class Feature
Augment: You may spend up to your daily number of healing surges to augment your powers. As a minor action, for every two surges you spend, you boost a power's attack bonus, damage, healing, defense bonus, or duration by 1. That's +1 to an attack, or defense bonus, 1 extra die of damage, or healing, or 1 extra turn for the duration of a power. Spending a healing surge in this way doesn’t restore hit points, unless used with a power that restores them.
Augment doesn't stack with Enervating Boost.
Actually, the more I think about spending surges with psionics to simulate using your internal resources, the more I like it. The same holds true for Ki. In fact, this could easily be the mechanism the two have in common that gives additional incentive to place both in the same book (PH3, hopefully).
I'd like to see spending healing surges be a very simple, yet overall limited mechanic. A class feature along the lines of the following for each class, perhaps being an encounter power usable a certain number of times each encounter akin to Channel Divinity:
The psionic controller (Psion?) might spend a healing surge once per turn to buff a manifestation, either increasing the duration of any status effect by one turn, or, similarly, give a saving throw penalty to one target affected by the manifestation (most likely scaled, -1/-2/-3 at heroic/paragon/epic, respectively).
The psionic defender (Ardent?) can spend a healing surge to either give themselves a defensive buff tacked on to a manifestation, or perhaps increase the effectiveness of a mark (again, perhaps scaled at -1/-2/-3 at heroic/paragon/epic, respectively).
A psionic leader (Empath?) might be able to spend a healing surge to increase a healing effect, or perhaps to increase the effectiveness of a buff (once more, each scaled at heroic/paragon/epic).
The psionic striker (Mindblade?) on the other hand would likely either spend a healing surge to increase a damage roll, else to increase a to-hit roll (one final time, scaled up at heroic/paragon/epic).
Make these special uses for healing surges the class features that are not likely to be shared via a multiclass feat. Ki-based classes would take up the healing-surge uses that the psionic classes don't (i.e., if the psionic striker has the damage buff, the ki striker would have the to-hit buff, etc).
Finally, again a la Channel Divinity, I'd love to see additional, more role-blurred uses for healing surges available as feat choices to psionic and ki classes.
Since healing surges are such a valuable commodity, these augmentation abilities could be justifiably as potent as regaining 1/4 of your hit points. Moreover, psionic and ki classes would have an interesting tension of choice each day: Spend surges to augment, or save them for healing in case the **** hits the fan.
Yeah, this is a good avenue to explore as far as design space goes. The best part? No entirely new systems being tossed in to the mix. It is purely a new avenue for the existing systems to explore, that have already been explored to a more limited degree (the use of healing surges to activate magic items), and are interesting in multiple ways.
Other than that, I like whatcha laid out, Tectu.
Random sample class feature, power, and feat for various psionic classes.
Class Feature for Telekineticists
Intercepting Mind: once per round as an immediate reaction, when an ally is attacked, you may replace one of the ally's defenses with your own if that defense is high enough that it would cause the attack to miss. However, you take half damage from this attack, even though the attack misses.
Power
Something Within _ Telepath Attack 1
Your enemy tries to dig out the horror growing within them... but it's all in their mind.
At-will*Psionic, varies, implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Target: One Creature
Attack: vs Will
Hit: The target attacks itself with a weapon/unarmed, or any at-will power it has that does damage, doing their normal damage with that weapon or power.
Feat (Power?)
Enervating Boost: You augment an attack or healing power by a number of extra dice equal to your key ability modifier. However, you take damage equal to half as many hitpoints you do in damage or healing with the extra dice.
Edit: Considering I'm not familiar with every feature, power, or feat in the book, I hope none of the above duplicate any other class feature, power, or feat.
The Intercepting Mind feature sounds pretty strictly for leaders overall. I also think it's more of a telepath power when it comes to Will defense...telepath OR kineticist for Reflex...and kineticist for Fortitude. If used at all, this would be my basic take on it...
It essentially raised the manifester level by 1 and paid the cost of augmentation. But, for each point in wild surge used there was a cumulative 5% chance of a psychic backlash called Psychic Enervation.
Essentially, I was trying to find a use for the healing surge for a specific class that would give it a different flavor and a significant power boost in two key areas (healing, damage) over other psionic classes. However, this advantage would come at a heavy cost if they choose to use it. Basically, a way of balancing out the power by having the class have to use two healing surges AND taking damage when using them in that way to gain an advantage.
I definitely dig what you've done. The only exception would be, what if the target of Something Within was wielding a bastard sword? Wouldn't it try and use that causing more damage? But, either way. And, enervating boost was an attempt to replicate the 3.5E Wilder's ability to augment their powers while possibly taking damage from doing so. Essentially, where as other psionic classes had to spend powerpoints to augment, the Wilder could use a wild surge, a number which began at +1 and increased with level.
It essentially raised the manifester level by 1 and paid the cost of augmentation. But, for each point in wild surge used there was a cumulative 5% chance of a psychic backlash called Psychic Enervation.
Essentially, I was trying to find a use for the healing surge for a specific class that would give it a different flavor and a significant power boost in two key areas (healing, damage) over other psionic classes. However, this advantage would come at a heavy cost if they choose to use it. Basically, a way of balancing out the power by having the class have to use two healing surges AND taking damage when using them in that way to gain an advantage.
Oh. Ok, now I get where it was coming from. Still not sure about it myself, though, but that could just be my personal bias against the Wilder.
The reason I left out something like, "target hits itself with whatever's handy" in Something Within is because it wouldn't matter much. They wouldn't be able to hit themselves very effectively at all, even bare-handed, and because of their circumstances they're not likely to be clear-headed enough to use powers to "solve" their problem. Hmm...maybe I should make them dazed with Int mod psychic damage on a miss? Anyway, the other problem with having them hurt themselves is that the damage and effects would vary wildly and with no consistency at all...from completely useless, all the way to "holy crap the BBEG just Harry Carey'd himself!" And it would be very complicated and page-consuming to word it effectively. So I just made it a base die-roll for physical damage as they thrash about in terror, with a bonus from Int as psychic damage from the strain on their mind duing the event. I had thought to only bump up the physical damage, but then decided that it was a tad underpowered and threw a d4 of damage onto the psychic portion of the damage also. Overall, I think it's roughly on par with most similar powers, but I'm not totally sure. If it is overpowered, I don't think it's so much so that someone would choose it over all others...or even only a few others.
Mind Fire - Pyrokinetic Attack 1
You boil your enemy's brain inside their skull.
At-will* Augment, Fire, Implement, Psionic
Standard Action - Ranged 10
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma vs Fortitude
Hit: 1d10 + Charisma modifier fire damage, and target is knocked prone.
Level 21 2d10 + Charisma modifier fire damage.
Augment: You make a secondary attack
Secondary Target: One Creature
1d6 + Charisma modifier fire damage, and target is knocked prone.
Molten Blast - Pyrokinetic Attack 1
Your eyes blaze like pools of lava, as a molten blast spews toward your foes.
Daily*Augment, Fire, Implement, Psionic
Standard Action - Close blast 3
Target: Each creature in blast
Attack: Charisma vs Reflex
Hit: 2d8 + Charisma modifier fire damage, and ongoing 5 fire damage (save ends).
Miss: 2d8 + Charisma modifier fire damage.
Augment: Target takes ongoing 5 fire damage on a miss (save ends).
Daze on a miss??!! Whoa that is WAY too powerful for an At-Will. If anything you would want to purposefully miss with the power.
I tend to agree, but ONLY because it's a burst 1. As I've said, I would have next to ZERO AoE attacks, especially at-wills, for psionic controllers. They should be all about single-target nastiness.
The attack in question would be more reasonable on a single-target at-will. Something more like:
Psychic Warrior/Ardent - Defender
Wilder - controller/striker
Mindknife - striker
Psion - Leader/Controller
The Psion would be the most versatile of the bunch. This class would be able to take discipline paths. The Psion's powers would have additional effects depending on the chosen discipline.
Kineticist - masters of energy. Able to manipulate or change energy attacks on the fly (fire, cold, acid, lightning).
Telepath - masters of powers that allow mental contact and control of other sentient creatures. A telepath can deceive or destroy the minds of his enemies with ease. Imparts debilitating effects on most powers, and adds additional damage on telepathic powers.
Shaper - master of armor-like, and weapon-like powers that boost the defenses and attacks of the psion or their allies, or alter biology such as healing, and limited polymorph powers.
Nomad - master of teleportation powers, and forced movement. This discipline would attach a teleport, shift, push, pull, or slide to many powers.
Also, I'd change the above from pyrokinetic to just kinetic. Since, there won't be 6 psionic classes, the kinetic discipline would combine the use different energy types, which would include fire, as well as cold, acid, and lightning, necrotic and radiant energies.
Second, psions are to psionics as magi are to magic.
There's a class called Magi?
To be honest with all the psychic damage that bards and other magic casters do I don't see how outside of fluff a telepath of some kind would be any different from them mechanically. I think psionics, and the psion were at their best back in 2e, that was my first exposure to the concept and my favorite version of the class. I would personally like to see the versatility and usefulness of that psion to return. Unfortunately 4e is horrible at widely versatile classes thanks to the roll system and the limitation of highly variable class features (such as why the binder which in 3.5 could be excellent melee one day and change to a radically different thing the next, like say healing, has been diluted into the vestige pact warlock). The 4e system cannot produce the class that can do a little of everything like the Psion used to. That being said we have to break the class up as much as myself and a few others don't want into a telepath and a telekeniticist, and so on and so on, which to cover every facet of the psion would require a number of classes, not that thats a problem, we have what 6 arcane classes now counting the artificer. I could see a wide range of psionic classes between the phb 3 and 4 (depending on if they split two classes each or if they put 4 in one book) and a potential dark sun player's book.
Some of the traditional disciplines could be represented as multi-class feat trees without a class, similar to the weapon specialized multi-class options that have been put out in several recent Dragon articles. Perhaps with more feats than a traditional multi-class. This would be ideal for power types that are difficult to build into a whole class (such as Metapsionics) or that would be difficult to balance as a class theme (Teleportation for example). This has the side benefit of giving non-psionic classes a chance to dabble, much like the old Wild Talents did.
You mercilessly assault your enemy with psychic force causing them to go on the defensive.
Encounter*Augment, Force, Implement, Psionic
Standard Action - Ranged 10
Target: One Creature
Attack: Wisdom vs Fortitude
Hit: 1d10 + Wisdom modifier force damage, the target cannot attack, but gains +2 to all defenses until the start of its next turn.
Augment: The target is slowed until the end of your next turn.
Whiplash - Telekinetic Attack 5
Your mentally snatch a foe from its feet, violently drawing it toward you.
Daily*Augment, Force, Implement, Psionic
Standard Action Ranged 10
Target: One Creature
Attack: Wisdom vs Will
Hit: You pull the target a number of squares equal to your Dexterity modifier.
Effect: The target takes 3d8 + Charisma modifier force damage, and is knocked prone.
Augment: You can make a secondary attack against the same target.
Secondary Attack: Wisdom vs Will
Hit: The target takes 1d6 force damage, and you push the target a number of squares equal to your Dexterity modifier.
Blood Leech - Psion (Shaper) Attack 3
You draw the blood from your wounded enemy turning it into a life-giving force.
Encounter*Augment, Implement, Psionic, Psychic
Standard Action - Ranged 5
Target: One Creature that has been bloodied
Attack: Wisdom vs Fortitude
Hit: 2d6 + Wisdom modifier psychic damage, and you heal yourself or an ally within 5 squares of you, a number of hitpoints equal to your damage roll + wisdom modifier.
Augment: The target is weakened (save ends).
Also, agreed. Daze on a miss for Something Within, is too powerful for an at-will power.
What I'd have would be 3 to 4 classes.
Psychic Warrior/Ardent - Defender
Wilder - controller/striker
Mindknife - striker
Psion - Leader/Controller
Ridonkulous thats bringing the 3.5 flaws forward.
this must not be done, at all
how can I say this?
take one look, heck, make a comparison, of the wilder
versus the beguiler...
the beguiler made a much better psionic character, but had a more powerful design because it wasn't a psionic class psionics was the red headed step child of 3.0 & 3.5 because as bruce cordell admited in his author interview on the wotc d&d website- he "just copied wizard stuff" (because) "writting psionics would be too hard".
so would you want to play an orignial class or a weak copy, read "plagurization" of something YOU ALREADY PAID FOR!
New is better- trust me
SO for example, one player might want to try a blind warrior as a defender...
another might want to persue the oracle as a leader...
yet another might want to play a fangbreaker as a striker...
and another might want to play their karmic mind as a controler...
One player might want a RAW teker able to demonstrate great psychokinetic feats, another a pyrokinetic able to set things ablaze with mental energy, yet still another a subtle "kelpto-kinetic" telekinesis bent to the task of thievery.
Even a MANGAKNIGHT who weilds a weapon of RIDONKULOUS weight and size, only because the character has the psychokinetic talents to do so. as well as performing that crazy wuxia stuff of leaping from tree branches and running on walls.
there is more I could offer but I digress. I have to go to my real world work.
- Arcana skill-allowing psionic characters to sense magic at a -5 penalty and know magical lore with a -5 penalty, conversely the same -5 penalty applies to others trying to sense psionic items. one wonders if this point is moot though as wizards currently have no problem identifing magic items created by casters using another source, in this case; divine, and primal items.
perhaps these two should be mandatory class skills with powers and feats desgined arround their use.
Psycrystals, or whatever they end up calling Psychic Implements will likely be worn, not held, like Holy Symbols.
Psychic Warrior I see as a heavily armored Defender subbing Controller or Striker. Controller for lots of telekinetic pushing, pulling, and sliding and some telepathic dazing effects. Striker more for lots of bonuses to movement from the old Psychoportation suite of powers and maybe some +Wis to accuracy effects. I'm imagining lots of [W] attacks and few, if any, Implement attacks. No idea how their marking's gonna work. Maybe something that lets them slide a distant marked target adjacent to them if the target tries to make an attack against not-the-PW.
Soulknife I'm imagining to be a melee implement-based Striker with a restriction that they must be unarmed for their attacks to function. All of their attack powers manifesting as psychic weapons appearing in their hands. Probably subbing Controller or Leader. Controller for much the same reasons as PW, plus some mind-controlly effects thrown in. Leader for giving your allies telepathic boosts. I'd love to see a striker that gets a damage boost by hitting a guy, and forcing (allowing) a nearby enemy (or ally) to attack the target as well.
Psion would be a Controller. Mostly utilizing all the charm effects the Wizard doesn't have, with plenty of telekinetic walls and Area grabs thrown in. Probably with some leader-ish effects thrown in with some tk repositioning of your allies or tp morale boosters.
I hope to see Wilder as just a build of Psion and not a separate class. All it's ever been is the Sorcerer to the Psion's Wizard. Otherwise I'd expect it to be the Psionic ranged Striker.... just like Sorcerer is to Wizards.
Not really sure what they'd have for a Psionic Leader (mostly because I see Telepathy as primarily used for Mind Control with buffing allies as a secondary effect) or even if they really need one.
My guesses:
Psycrystals, or whatever they end up calling Psychic Implements will likely be worn, not held, like Holy Symbols.
I'm guessing psicrystals is likely correct. I also agree that they are likely to be worn a la a holy symbol. Also, orbs. In the only campaign setting in which psionics plays a central role (Dark Sun), orbs are devices commonly used to focus the power of both arcane magic, and the will to use psionics. WotC could easily place orbs in for Psions, possibly Empaths, for no other reason than to set up Dark Sun later on, even if it isn't the 2010 campaign setting, while maintaining a cohesive theme for psionics (orbs would essentially be larger, nicer psicrystals that you have to wield, not merely wear).
My guess is that ALL psionic classes have a secondary of controller, except for the Psion (the primary controller), who'd likely have a secondary of leader.
Psychic Warrior I see as a heavily armored Defender subbing Controller or Striker. Controller for lots of telekinetic pushing, pulling, and sliding and some telepathic dazing effects. Striker more for lots of bonuses to movement from the old Psychoportation suite of powers and maybe some +Wis to accuracy effects. I'm imagining lots of [W] attacks and few, if any, Implement attacks. No idea how their marking's gonna work. Maybe something that lets them slide a distant marked target adjacent to them if the target tries to make an attack against not-the-PW.
Honestly, I'd like to see psychoportation simply fade away, never to be seen again. I never liked the idea that psionics allows you to teleport, etc. Move faster? Sure, give them speed buffs. Jump really far? Heck, yeah. Walk on surfaces they normally cannot? Absolutely, telekinesis something to walk on all you want. "Astral" project, or clairsentiently observe from a distance? Oh, my, yes! But teleport? No, save that for magic, thanks.
We currently have an extra-"sticky" defender (Fighter), a leader-esque defender (Paladin), a teleporting high defense AoE-spewing defender (Swordmage), and a fighter who can multi-mark and have encounter-long stance-like nastiness and uber hit points (Warden). For the psionic defender (Ardent? I do like the name better than Psychic Warrior), I'd like to see a defender that is all about pushes, pulls and slides (especially pulls). Sure, the other classes dip into this some, especially Fighter. But, how about a class that is proactive about being "sticky", rather than reactive, through mechanisms such as literally pulling the enemy towards them, among other means.
Soulknife I'm imagining to be a melee implement-based Striker with a restriction that they must be unarmed for their attacks to function. All of their attack powers manifesting as psychic weapons appearing in their hands. Probably subbing Controller or Leader. Controller for much the same reasons as PW, plus some mind-controlly effects thrown in. Leader for giving your allies telepathic boosts. I'd love to see a striker that gets a damage boost by hitting a guy, and forcing (allowing) a nearby enemy (or ally) to attack the target as well.
I'd like to see the Mindblade (much more apropos name than Soulknife, in my opinion) be the ultimate stealth striker, with speed buffs galore, and damage slightly above a Warlock, but nastier status effects than any other striker (to go with their controller secondary), but their attacks are limited to melee range, unlike the Warlock. Sure, others get some stealth options, and maneuverability. However, Mindblades should be clouding the minds of the enemies, making themselves invisible during combat more than any other class currently available.
Psion would be a Controller. Mostly utilizing all the charm effects the Wizard doesn't have, with plenty of telekinetic walls and Area grabs thrown in. Probably with some leader-ish effects thrown in with some tk repositioning of your allies or tp morale boosters.
I hope to see Wilder as just a build of Psion and not a separate class. All it's ever been is the Sorcerer to the Psion's Wizard. Otherwise I'd expect it to be the Psionic ranged Striker.... just like Sorcerer is to Wizards.
I've posted enough about Psions elsewhere. Don't really need to repeat it.
Not really sure what they'd have for a Psionic Leader (mostly because I see Telepathy as primarily used for Mind Control with buffing allies as a secondary effect) or even if they really need one.
Empath. :D Solid healing. Really good buffs to represent their awareness of the battlefield, the motivations of friend and foe alike. The usual array of psionic controller-centric secondary abilities and utilities. Finally, I'd like something a little new in a leader. I want to see more emphasis on a lightly touched upon design space: Splitting effects amongst the group. Think of the various abilities that allow leaders primary and secondary characters to funnel damage away from one target to another, or to split damage taken 50/50 between you and a friend, and ramp the concept up quite a bit. Split damage an ally deals to multiple legal target. Split the effects of buffs and debuffs on friends and/or foes. Split damage between a friend AND a foe. Stuff like that.
Empath. :D Solid healing.
I've never understood the connection between Empathy and healing. Empaths (in the pseudoscience real world sense) are supposed to read and manipulate emotions like Telepaths read and manipulate thoughts.
I know City of Heroes made them healers, but that never really made sense to me for the aforementioned reasons.
1.) Psychic Warrior
2.) Soulknife
3.) Not really sure what they'd have for a Psionic Leader
1.) I doubt we'll see class called Psychic Warrior, first of all, I believe they are going with one word titles for classes, and second of all it has always seemed a tad generic for a class title to me.
2.) As Ki is the power of the soul, they would have to change the class name to Mindknife.
3.) That's the only confirmed Psionic class we have: Empath = Psionic Leader.
3.) That's the only confirmed Psionic class we have: Empath = Psionic Leader.
Really? Where was this?
Psion disciplines will probably be done in a manner similar to warlock pacts.
I wouldn't say it's probable.
Frankly, considering how wrong everyone has been about class speculation regarding classes that have since been published, I'd say nothing is probable at this point.
However...I would say it's possible, and I'll also say that I wouldn't mind that at all. It actually sounds like a workable idea with plenty of options, IMO.
Actually, I'd really like to see that implemented in the Psion class.
But still, all that pseudo-wizard garbage in psionics just has to go, period...no matter the discipline. That's why I always played soulknives...because in 3.5 they didn't have psionic powers. The only time I didn't play soulknives was when I played telepaths.
Ya know...I think I'll add that pact-based idea to my existing psion homebrew...gratzi.