I feel the Essentials product is comming too soon. The reason I feel this way is because with the previous editions, when ever there was a major rule adjustment it usually indicated that the current version of the edition was about half-way through its lifetime. All the previous editions usually lasted about 10 years. We are only 3 years into this edition. Does that mean we can expect a 5e in another 3?
Examples:
1) 1st edition started in 1974 and came out with advanced dungeons and dragons in 1979.
2) 2nd edition started 1989 and in the mid 90's came out with the players options series.
3) 3rd ediiton sarted in 2000, and in 2003 3.5 was released.
4) 4e was released in 2008, and now in 2010 they are already releasing a rule upgrade.
It seems the timeframe in between editions just keeps getting shorter. Don't get me wrong, I love 4e. I also think there are numerous avenues Wizards can take to continue to generate revenue from this edition. I also believe the Essentials line wil have some positive rules adjustments, but I loved the Book of Nine Swords that came out right before they went to 4th.
Am I just being fearful?
All that matters is that we keep playing...
This just occurred to me as I'm writing this: Will the classes in Essentials have, designated in print, controller, leader, striker et al. roles as in the first 4e books? If the answer is no then I think the time machine back to 1985 and 1e is warming up.
Eventhough it might be a good thing to return to the "roots" but the 4e Essentials gameplay remains the same with 4e Core, and that is the major turn off for AD&D grogs.
Point taken. Grogs are grogs no matter what. It's funny to watch forty year old men argue over the validity of BECMI and 2e. How one is an abomination to the other. It's a hoot!
However, I've seen some grogs warm up to 4e where 3e was just !verboten! never to be spoken of. It's quite possible that WOTC has some keen polling showing grogs slowly warming to 4e and a quick turn to an old favorite (Elmore art, pseudo 1e roots) might tip them over into trying 4e.
One thing not too covered is this throwback Elmore art and Bill S. mentioning 1e by name as a design influence on Essentials. I know they want to bring back some old gamers but to do it will require them to dig pretty deep into the edition bin. Hey, I loved 1e. I started on 1e in 1985 but why is Bill S. going back to 1e as this "cornerstone" edition? If you want 4e to be a little more 1e-ish that's fine but you must first severe the on-line gaming references (hint, that's ticking off grogs a lot!).
This just occurred to me as I'm writing this: Will the classes in Essentials have, designated in print, controller, leader, striker et al. roles as in the first 4e books? If the answer is no then I think the time machine back to 1985 and 1e is warming up.
I think the "return to 1e" thing is just a marketing gimmick and not something they're taking seriously. They're just saying it and making the box look like it to try and get some of the people who complained that "This isn't D&D anymore!" to maybe buy the red box and give it a chance. Other than the box art, the errata for Magic Missile (come on, really?), and the possible dumbing down of the fighter, it doesn't look like they really are making any changes that are aimed at reeling in grognards.
Let's not forget the effect Pathfinder has had on the market. Pathfinder is making money and digging into 4e's share. I think some of this backward glancing to previous editions is being done with a keen eye on the PF and Retro-Clone areas of the market. Essentials may turn out to have a little old school soul to it with an extra slice of 3e.
One thing not too covered is this throwback Elmore art and Bill S. mentioning 1e by name as a design influence on Essentials. I know they want to bring back some old gamers but to do it will require them to dig pretty deep into the edition bin. Hey, I loved 1e. I started on 1e in 1985 but why is Bill S. going back to 1e as this "cornerstone" edition? If you want 4e to be a little more 1e-ish that's fine but you must first severe the on-line gaming references (hint, that's ticking off grogs a lot!).
This just occurred to me as I'm writing this: Will the classes in Essentials have, designated in print, controller, leader, striker et al. roles as in the first 4e books? If the answer is no then I think the time machine back to 1985 and 1e is warming up.
I think the "return to 1e" thing is just a marketing gimmick and not something they're taking seriously. They're just saying it and making the box look like it to try and get some of the people who complained that "This isn't D&D anymore!" to maybe buy the red box and give it a chance. Other than the box art, the errata for Magic Missile (come on, really?), and the possible dumbing down of the fighter, it doesn't look like they really are making any changes that are aimed at reeling in grognards.
Oh yeah, magic missile errata. I forgot about that. I don't know...the plot just thickened in my opinion. Change MM just to return it to old school roots? Hmmmm, seems a little too odd for my tastes.
As for races, the first line of Essentials has the classic core races. The Tiefling and Dragonborn don't show up till the second release.
This makes me wonder how I'm going to get my classic fighter/mage with the new rules
If you look at the classes covered in the Essential lines, only the core classes are covered. None of the psionics, Forgotton Realms or Ebberon calsses are listed. Also the only class covered from Player's handbook 2 is the Druid, which in the past was a core class.
As for races, the first line of Essentials has the classic core races. The Tiefling and Dragonborn don't show up till the second release.
This makes me wonder how I'm going to get my classic fighter/mage with the new rules
Multiclassing is a good question actually... I would bet that they'll include a modified version of the Hybrid rules in the Rules Encyclopedia and leave the original 4e multiclass feats suspiciously missing from any of the new books. So that the old multiclass style is still "supported" but ignored from here on out to concentrate on Hybrid from now on.
Probably not, but interesting to ponder.
Multiclassing is a good question actually... I would bet that they'll include a modified version of the Hybrid rules in the Rules Encyclopedia and leave the original 4e multiclass feats suspiciously missing from any of the new books. So that the old multiclass style is still "supported" but ignored from here on out to concentrate on Hybrid from now on.
So in an attempt to simplify and improve the rules, they will choose the option that takes a bunch of pages to explain and gives uncertain results over one that basically 3/4 of a page of text and another 3/4 page of feats?
Multiclassing is a good question actually... I would bet that they'll include a modified version of the Hybrid rules in the Rules Encyclopedia and leave the original 4e multiclass feats suspiciously missing from any of the new books. So that the old multiclass style is still "supported" but ignored from here on out to concentrate on Hybrid from now on.
So in an attempt to simplify and improve the rules, they will choose the option that takes a bunch of pages to explain and gives uncertain results over one that basically 3/4 of a page of text and another 3/4 page of feats?
Yes. I guess I haven't bought into this "simplify" thing yet. I'll start to believe it when I see some simplification. ;)
I expect multiclassing to look very similar to how it does now (ie, to be exactly the same as it is now). Hybrids I'm less sure of.
Yes. I guess I haven't bought into this "simplify" thing yet. I'll start to believe it when I see some simplification. ;)
Thinking that the Essentials version of the Cleric isn't simpler than the PHB Cleric is like saying that having a kid order a Happy Meal is more complicated than having them order stuff off the rest of the entire menu.
"They still have to choose between a hamburger, cheeseburger, and Chicken McNuggets AND a soft drink or milk or apple juice AND fries or apple dippers AND they get a toy (and there could be MORE THAN ONE to pick from) AND there may be activities on the box... which ONLY comes with a Happy Meal?! That at least 5 items. What if I want a hamburger? What if I want a toy? What if I want a Happy Meal box? I bet they are going to come out with different Happy Meal boxes in the future. LUNCH CREEP! Actually, well it's like lunch and dinner, so we should call it LINNER. LINNER EDITION. Does this mean I won't get support for my Snack Wrap?! They said that McRib was just for a Limited time but it's showing up on the menu again! Fish Sandwiches should be in there, as they have been sold for years and are part of the CORE MENU! All the other core food items coming out will also be in EXTRA VALUE MEALS!!!!!! I don't see how this is simpler."
You can still have hamburgers. You can still have Snack Wraps. You can still have soft drinks. You can still have fries. You can get Extra Value Meals or order ala carte. You may to jump through hoops if you want toys or a box, but you'll still get your greasy satisfaction.
You can even have 'em hold the pickles.
Yes. I guess I haven't bought into this "simplify" thing yet. I'll start to believe it when I see some simplification. ;)
Thinking that the Essentials version of the Cleric isn't simpler than the PHB Cleric is like saying that having a kid order a Happy Meal is more complicated than having them order stuff off the rest of the entire menu.
I don't see why it's simpler. You get everything that a normal cleric gets except Healer's Lore and possibly Ritual Casting (though honestly I expect some changes to how Rituals work for spellcasting classes to appear soon). You can still pick from all the same powers in all the books, but now you have additional powers to choose from that only Warpriests can take. You also get new features as you level up, and added domain powers. It's all just addition on top of the Cleric except for the removal of Healer's Lore and possibly Ritual Casting, and they do get some Rituals anyway, we're just not sure how. How is that simpler?
You have at-wills and encounters tied to your Domain. You're -heavily suggested- to draw from that pool of encounter powers. You're forced to take those at-wills.
Fewer choices means simpler. Simpler effects means simpler.
It's all just addition on top of the Cleric except for the removal of Healer's Lore and possibly Ritual Casting, and they do get some Rituals anyway, we're just not sure how. How is that simpler?
But a new 4e player fresh & pipin' hot from the Red Box hasn't the foggiest idea about most of the stuff you're talking about. It's simpler for people new to the system.
Example Time. Two new people are rolling up clerics for D&D Couples Counseling.
Essentials Gal and 
PHB Guy. Let's ignore everything but cleric stuff, as we do know that Essentials will start out with non-speaking extras from LotR but that's it for races. : I wish to crush my heretic enemies while nuturing my caring friends. I will choose a feat [from an abbreviated list], and a daily attack power [from an abbreviated list] and a domain [1 of 2, which will determine a bunch of stuff automatically] to complete my class selections, not counting skills [there is nothing in the preview that says anyone MUST pick skills]. It is apparent that all these choices are deliberately designed toward my goal of crushing heretics and nuturing friends. I don't understand why my beau implied that this game was complicated, as I am only making 3 choices at this step, not counting skills. Perhaps, in addition to his constant fiddling with devices at the expense of human interaction, he is a dishonest fellow.: Crap. Why did they have to change this from 3.5e? FOCUS. FOCUS. I'll be a cleric, because they can do anything; I want to be good at combat, but I don't want to gimp my healing. I want to look cool in from of my girlfriend, too, so I'll use the "real" 4e rules I've pirated instead of those newbie nostalgia-cash-in Red Box rules. Dang. They've changed everything from the OGL! How am I supposed to know how to get the best cleric dude for my concept? I have over 50 feats to choose from [81+ at the heroic tier, but not all are usable], 4 at-wills (and I have to pick 2), 4 encounters, 4 dailies... that doesn't even count skills. How the heck am I supposed to know how these interact? The builds in the PDF look generic, and I don't even know if they will do what they say they will. WTF?! I'll just whip out my netbook and use my pirated version of the character builder and mash some crud together. My girlfriend won't know the difference, anyway. I dunno why she said we need counseling, but it's D&D, so.... Just need to minimize this window after I post this forum troll....If you STILL don't get it, read on....
is the D&D Couples Counselor. Show
: Hello, miss. Hello, sir. I am your D&D Couples Counselor. Before we begin your counseling role-play session, would you mind if I reviewed the characters you have developed?
: I don't mind at all. I have chosen a warpriest, and I will crush heretics while nuturing my friends. Would you like to view the character sheet?
: Certainly. My, your penmanship is exquisite, and is that a hint of Obsession I smell in the paper? You are not only a woman of class and good taste, but you have chosen your character options well to match your concept, much like how I see you match your clothing and accessories.
: Thank you! Everything fell into place due to the design and presentation of the materials. I was lead to believe the process was more complicated than it was....
: [Looks up from netbook] That's because you are using a simplified newbie version. I'm trying to make a real cleric with the 4e PHB & character builder and it takes some time to optimize a real 4e character. The dumbed-down Red Box version is limited, but I have to contend with the full set of options of 4e.
: Actually, while in most cases I do not wish to overburden those I counsel too soon, I'd like to inform you that the feats, powers, and other options between D&D Essentials and your Player's Handbook are mostly interchangable. So, many of the selections that your charming young companion has chosen you could choose for your cleric as well.
: [Looks up from netbook] More choices to make?!
: Yes, but the choices aren't better, just different. Likewise, miss, you could also choose many options from the wealth of published 4th Edition Dungeons and Dragons products. However, I must point out that, unlike what has been asserted, your Warpriest is in no way limited or less useful than a cleric designed with other materials. You could retain the feats, powers, and other features of your Warpriest and never use another product. Your character will retain their utility. Or, if you wish, you may branch out to new and stimulating experiences at your own pace.
: I do prefer activities that do not always degenerate into an uncomfortable, frustrating anticlimax due to the animalistic drives of others.
: The important thing is to know your own preferences, and not be rushed or hurried along to an unsatifying end. D&D Essentials allows a firm foundation, lingering just enough at the gate of adventure to whet one's appetite for further, deeper, harder delves into....
: [Looks up from netbook] Harder? Making a character is harder! How are you even going to get into the bad guy's cave with all this crap? This is barely D&D in the first place! I give up!
: Prematurely finishing again? You are always overthinking everything! Relax! Just use the Essentials, pick a feat, a domain....
: [Looks up from netbook] Domain? What? Wait a sec! [Pulls character sheet out of the hands of the counselor] What the heck is this? They put new crap in the Red Box on top of the cleric stuff that's already out there? And call all this simpler? THAT'S INSANE! Look here. Look. Lemme scroll down. Look. Where do you see Domains? Huh? What were Wizards thinking!? They made the newbie version both better AND more complicated! WTF?!
: Sir. I must again point out that the Essentials version is simply not better. It is different, and if you use your character builder software, you could see that. But you can't use your character builder software. That's because it's not your character builder software... am I correct? And why does your Player's Handbook document have printer's color correction marking around the border? Sir. Are you... a file sharer?
: Well, yeah. I mean, no. I don't share things to other people. I'm a more of a file getter. And I'm reviewing them. I bet it's fair use.
: [Nearly Swoons] Oh my goodness! It's like communism has planted its crimson standard in his heart!
: Sir, not only are you a thief, and a blackguard, but you fundamentally misunderstand both D&D Essentials, and your girlfriend. Neither she, nor Dungeons and Dragons, needs your small mind and churlist interest. If you fail to understand the nuances of experiencing a simple game, even when it has been explained in detail several times, how can you be expected to understand the most important adventure of all... experiencing the love of a good woman?
: What? Go to heck, dude! [Beep] Aw crap, my netbook ran out of juice. Forget this joint. We're out of here. Come on, babe. We're blowing this pop stand.
: I... I think... I want to play my Warpriest.
: You have got to be kidding! It's way too complicated for you! For anybody! Forget it! Let's go back to my folk's basement and browse imageboards.
: No... No! NO! I understand! Counselor, regardless of the domain I choose, I could swap out my encounter power for one with electricity? Yes! Electricity... brightly careening... wildly... madly... dashing through the heavens to crash into earth and electrocute any heretics who defile my prescence!
: You understand! Yes! YES! You can swap it out! You can have electricity enough to make an orc's eyeball budge out of their sockets! The kind that makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand on end and makes your muscles quake! Sure, you may not receive a bonus to your power if it is not in your domain, but to the devil with the consequences! It is YOUR character!
: And if I did not wish to cling to a safe, solid rock of Essentials character creation rules, and instead wanted to fly, free like an eagle, spread out for all the world to see with but one power, one token and momento of my change from girl to woman, from the Essentials rules, and all else from the wide and thrilling publications given sweet release in the past years... I could do that too?
: But baby... I think I love you!
: Of course. Of course you can swap a single power out from D&D Essentials to a character created in another method. It's not rocket science. It's not neurosurgery. It's not even phrenology. It's simpler than that, but beyond that... it's intuitively grasped.
: Like love at first sight.
: Yes, and like D&D Essentials Character Generation in general, if you are not a fool. Now, if you do wish to play your character, miss, I have to tell you that as a D&D Couples Counselor I can only allow you into my dungeon if you both play. It would be improper and ungentlemanly of me to play with only one member of a couple, even if one is a criminal and a imbecile.
: I'd like to play... one-on-one... I'm not in a couple! Not anymore!
: [Puppy dog eyes welling with tears] But baby... [choked up] I think I love you!
: My character is almost ready. I still need equipment. A huge, gore-soaked warhammer will work for starters. And a character portait. My... ex... boyfriend used to compare me to the lurid fantasy pictures he downloads. Probably using them beyond the scope of fair use! In any case, he always compared me to dwarves. How unflattering! I have been told I resemble Christina Hendricks. No matter. Why don't we go to my place and scrutinize illustrations of dwarf women while I try to model some of their clothing designs for you. Then, when you think I'm ready for you, you can take me to you dungeon. We can play and play and never stop! Always striving, yearing, reaching for the next level!
: Splendid! D&D Essentials, thank you for bring happiness and fulfillment to this young woman though your simple yet scalable character generation process. Huzzah!
: I can imagine that life could only be better if it ended in a quick and painless death after decades of mind-altering constant mental, spiritual, and physical pleasure... and more Dungeons and Dragons.
: There's only one way to find out.
:
: Hello, miss. Hello, sir. I am your D&D Couples Counselor. Before we begin your counseling role-play session, would you mind if I reviewed the characters you have developed?: I don't mind at all. I have chosen a warpriest, and I will crush heretics while nuturing my friends. Would you like to view the character sheet? : Certainly. My, your penmanship is exquisite, and is that a hint of Obsession I smell in the paper? You are not only a woman of class and good taste, but you have chosen your character options well to match your concept, much like how I see you match your clothing and accessories. : Thank you! Everything fell into place due to the design and presentation of the materials. I was lead to believe the process was more complicated than it was....: [Looks up from netbook] That's because you are using a simplified newbie version. I'm trying to make a real cleric with the 4e PHB & character builder and it takes some time to optimize a real 4e character. The dumbed-down Red Box version is limited, but I have to contend with the full set of options of 4e.: Actually, while in most cases I do not wish to overburden those I counsel too soon, I'd like to inform you that the feats, powers, and other options between D&D Essentials and your Player's Handbook are mostly interchangable. So, many of the selections that your charming young companion has chosen you could choose for your cleric as well. : [Looks up from netbook] More choices to make?!: Yes, but the choices aren't better, just different. Likewise, miss, you could also choose many options from the wealth of published 4th Edition Dungeons and Dragons products. However, I must point out that, unlike what has been asserted, your Warpriest is in no way limited or less useful than a cleric designed with other materials. You could retain the feats, powers, and other features of your Warpriest and never use another product. Your character will retain their utility. Or, if you wish, you may branch out to new and stimulating experiences at your own pace. : I do prefer activities that do not always degenerate into an uncomfortable, frustrating anticlimax due to the animalistic drives of others. : The important thing is to know your own preferences, and not be rushed or hurried along to an unsatifying end. D&D Essentials allows a firm foundation, lingering just enough at the gate of adventure to whet one's appetite for further, deeper, harder delves into....: [Looks up from netbook] Harder? Making a character is harder! How are you even going to get into the bad guy's cave with all this crap? This is barely D&D in the first place! I give up!: Prematurely finishing again? You are always overthinking everything! Relax! Just use the Essentials, pick a feat, a domain....: [Looks up from netbook] Domain? What? Wait a sec! [Pulls character sheet out of the hands of the counselor] What the heck is this? They put new crap in the Red Box on top of the cleric stuff that's already out there? And call all this simpler? THAT'S INSANE! Look here. Look. Lemme scroll down. Look. Where do you see Domains? Huh? What were Wizards thinking!? They made the newbie version both better AND more complicated! WTF?!: Sir. I must again point out that the Essentials version is simply not better. It is different, and if you use your character builder software, you could see that. But you can't use your character builder software. That's because it's not your character builder software... am I correct? And why does your Player's Handbook document have printer's color correction marking around the border? Sir. Are you... a file sharer?: Well, yeah. I mean, no. I don't share things to other people. I'm a more of a file getter. And I'm reviewing them. I bet it's fair use. : [Nearly Swoons] Oh my goodness! It's like communism has planted its crimson standard in his heart! : Sir, not only are you a thief, and a blackguard, but you fundamentally misunderstand both D&D Essentials, and your girlfriend. Neither she, nor Dungeons and Dragons, needs your small mind and churlist interest. If you fail to understand the nuances of experiencing a simple game, even when it has been explained in detail several times, how can you be expected to understand the most important adventure of all... experiencing the love of a good woman?: What? Go to heck, dude! [Beep] Aw crap, my netbook ran out of juice. Forget this joint. We're out of here. Come on, babe. We're blowing this pop stand.: I... I think... I want to play my Warpriest.: You have got to be kidding! It's way too complicated for you! For anybody! Forget it! Let's go back to my folk's basement and browse imageboards.: No... No! NO! I understand! Counselor, regardless of the domain I choose, I could swap out my encounter power for one with electricity? Yes! Electricity... brightly careening... wildly... madly... dashing through the heavens to crash into earth and electrocute any heretics who defile my prescence!: You understand! Yes! YES! You can swap it out! You can have electricity enough to make an orc's eyeball budge out of their sockets! The kind that makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand on end and makes your muscles quake! Sure, you may not receive a bonus to your power if it is not in your domain, but to the devil with the consequences! It is YOUR character!: And if I did not wish to cling to a safe, solid rock of Essentials character creation rules, and instead wanted to fly, free like an eagle, spread out for all the world to see with but one power, one token and momento of my change from girl to woman, from the Essentials rules, and all else from the wide and thrilling publications given sweet release in the past years... I could do that too? : But baby... I think I love you!: Of course. Of course you can swap a single power out from D&D Essentials to a character created in another method. It's not rocket science. It's not neurosurgery. It's not even phrenology. It's simpler than that, but beyond that... it's intuitively grasped.: Like love at first sight.: Yes, and like D&D Essentials Character Generation in general, if you are not a fool. Now, if you do wish to play your character, miss, I have to tell you that as a D&D Couples Counselor I can only allow you into my dungeon if you both play. It would be improper and ungentlemanly of me to play with only one member of a couple, even if one is a criminal and a imbecile.: I'd like to play... one-on-one... I'm not in a couple! Not anymore! : [Puppy dog eyes welling with tears] But baby... [choked up] I think I love you! : My character is almost ready. I still need equipment. A huge, gore-soaked warhammer will work for starters. And a character portait. My... ex... boyfriend used to compare me to the lurid fantasy pictures he downloads. Probably using them beyond the scope of fair use! In any case, he always compared me to dwarves. How unflattering! I have been told I resemble Christina Hendricks. No matter. Why don't we go to my place and scrutinize illustrations of dwarf women while I try to model some of their clothing designs for you. Then, when you think I'm ready for you, you can take me to you dungeon. We can play and play and never stop! Always striving, yearing, reaching for the next level!: Splendid! D&D Essentials, thank you for bring happiness and fulfillment to this young woman though your simple yet scalable character generation process. Huzzah!: I can imagine that life could only be better if it ended in a quick and painless death after decades of mind-altering constant mental, spiritual, and physical pleasure... and more Dungeons and Dragons. : There's only one way to find out. : It's simpler because the powers aren't all meshed together.
You have at-wills and encounters tied to your Domain. You're -heavily suggested- to draw from that pool of encounter powers. You're forced to take those at-wills.
Fewer choices means simpler. Simpler effects means simpler.
I don't know if your at-wills are necessarily locked because of your domain; the article says you can swap any power you want for a different cleric power, so that might apply to at-wills. I'd be really surprised if it didn't, because that would mean they could never publish new At-Wills as options and that all previous at-wills are now useless going forward.
And you're heavily suggested to follow the sample builds in the PHB as well, and if you do that, you don't have to make any choices at all... isn't that simpler?
It's all just addition on top of the Cleric except for the removal of Healer's Lore and possibly Ritual Casting, and they do get some Rituals anyway, we're just not sure how. How is that simpler?
But a new 4e player fresh & pipin' hot from the Red Box hasn't the foggiest idea about most of the stuff you're talking about. It's simpler for people new to the system.
I can't really figure out if you're just trolling, but I guess I'll bite. Shouldn't we should compare two equal people that are new to the system, not one who is new and one who's an obsessive compulsive 3.5e player with schyzophrenic tendencies?
: Crap. Why did they have to change this from 3.5e? FOCUS. FOCUS. etc
I don't understand why the guy is a raving lunatic... gender issues much? Instead it could go like it went for my actual noob players: "Well I want to be a battle cleric so I'll base my character off this suggested battle cleric printed right here. I don't really have to make any choices then at all unless I feel like it, and if I do, my choices are pretty limited because I want/need to take Strength powers that let me use my weapon, so at most I usually have to pick one out of of two powers for most levels."
Unless you mean that the guy is using every single 4e book printed but the girl is only looking at Essentials. That's not a fair comparison because the girl could be using Essentials, every other book, and Character Builder to make her character and have more options to look through than the guy.
It sounds like you're saying Essentials is simpler because previously, everyone new to 4e was a psychopathic criminal who obsessed over numbers (which I agree is mostly true) but now that the new books are out, everyone will be calm, law-abiding, non-min/maxing, and most preposterously, female. That's a little ridiculous.
I don't know if your at-wills are necessarily locked because of your domain; the article says you can swap any power you want for a different cleric power, so that might apply to at-wills. I'd be really surprised if it didn't, because that would mean they could never publish new At-Wills as options and that all previous at-wills are now useless going forward.
Mike Mearls has stated in a different thread, and it's been plastered other places (though perhaps not here as there are too many threads on this topic), that the at-wills are probably not transferrable for the Warpriest. This is not a big deal. There will be other buildssubclasses released. At-wills do not grow on trees (Clerics have only 9 so far, and they are both the iconic leader and divine class). Warpriest at-wills are probably WIS melee powers, and we already have one (Sonnlinor's Hammer) for clerics, and that's not even a currently supported build! So even if you could switch them in, you would have no other WIS melee cleric powers. Unless you switched in the other Warpriest powers, and then you'd be better off playing a Warpriest who switched in other cleric powers and not the other way around.
And you're heavily suggested to follow the sample builds in the PHB as well, and if you do that, you don't have to make any choices at all... isn't that simpler?
Design Feature list item #2 is "Player Choice". Picking the standard array, a race, and a straight list build is hardly fulfilling that design criteria.
I can't really figure out if you're just trolling, but I guess I'll bite.
I am not deliberately taking a contrary position for the sole purpose of giving you grief, if that's what you are wondering.
Shouldn't we should compare two equal people that are new to the system, not one who is new and one who's an obsessive compulsive 3.5e player with schyzophrenic tendencies?
How would that affect the choices that had to be made, vs their reaction to those choices? Also, I forgot that PHB Guy would also have to pick a 1st-level ritual.
Unless you mean that the guy is using every single 4e book printed but the girl is only looking at Essentials.
Nope. Just the PHB.
It sounds like you're saying Essentials is simpler because previously, everyone new to 4e was a psychopathic criminal who obsessed over numbers (which I agree is mostly true) but now that the new books are out, everyone will be calm, law-abiding, non-min/maxing, and most preposterously, female. That's a little ridiculous.
Those aren't tokens. They're tablets. Feel and embrace "the great revision". There will be a DDI subscription AND prescription.
Design Feature list item #2 is "Player Choice". Picking the standard array, a race, and a straight list build is hardly fulfilling that design criteria.
I don't really know what you mean by this. Are you saying that the PHB talks about how you have a lot of choices, and thus that "forces" people to spend hours analyzing every fraction of DPS they can eek out, and that Essentials is saying "Choice is bad" and that will change people's perceptions? Aside from using the buzzword "streamlined" a whole bunch of times, there's not really any streamlining in the actual rules or choices you make with Essentials, except maybe the At-Will's if you're right... but we don't really know enough about that. Even then, your At-Wills are basically locked with PHB because you have to pick the two that match your prime stat.
How would that affect the choices that had to be made, vs their reaction to those choices? Also, I forgot that PHB Guy would also have to pick a 1st-level ritual.
Because the choices are almost exactly the same... if anything, the Essentials version has more choices. You're making the girl relax and just pick the default suggestions even though there are a thousand other things she could customize, but you're making the guy ignore the default suggestions and feel like he has to look through everything and customize. They both have to choose a race, skills, a feat, ability scores, starting equipment. They both have pre-chosen At-Wills. They both get to pick an Encounter power and a Daily power. The guy has to pick a Ritual, but the girl has to pick a Domain, a secondary racial stat modifier, probably a Background (they seem to be pretty core now). The girl's character also ends up being more complex, with an extra utility power and some unknown domain features, while the guy just has Healer's Lore. The guy only has to look through Cleric choices that take up one section of one chapter of the PHB. The girl has to look through the Red Box booklet, and two separate class books that each dedicate a quarter of their content to Clerics; probably FAR more choices than the PHB guy.
Looks like, at the very least a Thief kit for Rogues. There seems to be a Lich kit for Wizards, but the fact that the Revenant, Assassin character is thrown in there with the essential classes and their kits (Cleric, Warpriest; Fighter, Slayer; Rogue, Thief), casts doubt on the Wizard, as Lich could be like how the Revenant is used there. But Revenants aren't in Essentials, and the Lich is listed AFTER Wizard, not BEFORE.
So yeah. What d'yall think?
Seems that guy's the antagonist, though, so it's likely not. Still, Thief Kit!
I just read the first chapter of the book and it seems like it's going to be an awesome novel. The sample chapter is up for download on the product catalog entry for it.
There seems to be a Lich kit for Wizards
Sure it's not for Necromancers?
There seems to be a Lich kit for Wizards
Sure it's not for Necromancers?
It isn't. It's based off character blurbs for the new D&D novel The Mark of Nerath. The character in question is the big bad of the story. He is a darklord in the Shadowfell, former emperor of the kingdom of Nerath and a very powerful Lich. I think it's safe to say they won't be making lich into a class build any time soon, or ever.
NAO.
As opposed to the Lich Epic Destiny we already have, or the undead PC race we already have? Saying there will never be a Lich class build is very pre-mature.
Lich works as an epic destiny, though. A lich is a powerful spellcaster who achieves immortality by performing a ritual that binds his or her soul to a phylactery. You have to be at least 14th level to even perform the ritual to become a lich (MM1 p177).
Sure, they could make a lich class, but it would have to fly in the face of everything we know about the lich; not just in 4E, but from all of D&D.