Anyway...
A full discipline power gives you two or more actions to choose from, usually an attack technique and a movement technique. Attack techniques usually require a standard action, and movement techniques are options for your move actions.
But am I using the power itself for this action? Or is using a power a free action, that grants use of options for my other actions?
When you use the standard action attack option, you are using the power, and when you use the move action movement option, you are using the power. It never says there are any other actions involved, so there aren't.
During a particular round? Does this mean that full discipline powers last from round to round?
Not sure what you're even asking here. A round is a round. They don't "last into" other rounds.
So are they like stances in this regard? Stances used as free actions that grant options... can I get a yay or nay on that statement?
No, they're not like stances, and they're not free actions.
So... I'm reading again from this that they're like free action stances.
Where are you reading this? They're not free actions, and they're not stances.
They're limited once per round, and the techniques contained within are limited by at-will or encounter.
What about this makes you think they're free actions or stances?
Once during a round... this seems to imply that you can then move on to the NEXT round and use ANOTHER part of the discipline. And so long as you don't switch full disciplines, you can keep using it over and over.
No, it doesn't imply that at all. When you get to your next turn, that means you've gone to a new round.
And I've noticed the highest-level full-discipline encounter powers are barely any better than 1st-level ones for other classes--which would be nicely balanced by infinite usage so long as you don't switch out.
. . . What?
But I don't know... last time I asked, I got a flurry of responses, each of which was different. It almost feels like trolling to ask this again, because it seems inevitable to start an argument or two.
Really? I've seen the question pop up before, but I always see the correct answer given and decided upon in the end, with everybody agreeing that the wording is needlessly complex but also agreeing on what the answer is.
You can use the Techniques of an At-Will FD as many times as you ca as long as you have the necessary actions. You can only use the Techniques of an Encounter Full Discipline ONCE each.
When you enter a Full Discipline it is as if you are in that FD until the start of your next turn. This mean you can use the Techniques outside of your turn if you somehow get the chance to do so (so if somehow you get a move action outside of your turn and in your tun you used a FD you can use the FD's Move technique).
If for some reason you fail to use either of the techniques of an Encounter Full Discipline during a round you can't use it till the next encounter (like normal encounter powers).
Hope that helps.
An example:
I cannot spend my move action on one FDP and my standard on a different FDP.
I can spend my move action on a FDP and use my standard for a non-FDP power.
I can spend my standard on a FDP, use a move action utility power, then spend my AP for a standard action which I use for a different FDP.
Anyway, the typical complement of actions in a round is Standard, Minor, Move, right (assuming you don't trade out actions)? So, most classes have powers that require a standard action, and then they can use their move action to do anything that costs a Move Action (move their speed, shift, stand up, whatever).
The Full Discipline power just gives you another thing that's worth a Move Action. So, if you're a monk, your move action options include anything any other class can do normally (move their speed, shift, stand up, whatever), PLUS the special movement granted by the Full Discipline power.
There's nothing more to it, really - it's just a power that offers another option to spend your move action on. There's some confusing parts about how a power counts as expended, but basically, you can use either or both components of a power, and if you use either/both, the power counts as used. That way, you can't use an encounter power twice, for instance.
With power, comes understanding.
Play the monk, use your powers, and you will know. As you fly through the air, to attack your next opponent, it will all become clear.
Seriously, after I played the monk, the full disciplines became crystal clear.
The at-will powers you can use as much as you like -- they're at-will.
The encounter disciplines can only be used once per round because they can only be used once per encounter. Use 'em once and they're gone.
The move options that accompany a full discipline (at-will or encounter) can be used in place of your normal movement. And in any order.
The daily powers are not full disciplines powers.
Also, say I use the Move part of an At-Will Full Discipline, take an action point to do the Attack part of a different Full Discipline, and still have my regular Standard Action left. Can I go back to the first Full Discipline or is the switch once per round?
So say I use the Move part of an Encounter Full Discipline and I don't use the Attack part that round (for whatever reason). Is the whole thing expended or is the Attack part still good for another round?
You've used the power. It's expended until you take a short rest. You can't "save" a partial power for another round any more than you can save a secondary attack from pick-your-power for the round after you originally hit.
Also, say I use the Move part of an At-Will Full Discipline, take an action point to do the Attack part of a different Full Discipline, and still have my regular Standard Action left. Can I go back to the first Full Discipline or is the switch once per round?
"You can use only one full discipline power per round. However, if you spend an action point to take an extra action, you can switch to a different full discipline power." The word switch leads me to believe that if you use full discipline power P1, then use an action point and use full discipline power P2, you no longer have access to full discipline power P1 during that round. Analogy: if a barbarian uses daily power R1 to enter the rage of the rabid squirrel, and then spends an action point to use daily power R2 to enter the rage of the killer cave gopher, he/she/it no longer benefits from the rage of the rabid squirrel.
I do not think the wording of the full discipline sidebar fully clarifies the issue. But in the absence of clarification from WotC, this is how I would rule it at my table.
With the Rogue’s Deft Strike, you attack and are allowed a move 2 before or after the attack. This movement is part of the Standard Action used for the attack. But, this power is really limited to combat only circumstances.
The Monk’s Spitting Cobra (FD) allows: 1) for a standard action, you can attack, and/or 2) for a move action, you gain 2 to your speed. Both aspects (move, standard) can be used in a round during combat. But, the great thing about full discipline is: you can use the move portions out of combat. For example, a human monk (speed 6) could outrun an elf (speed 7), because he can use the move aspect of the Spitting Cobra (FD) to essentially increase his speed to 8.
Using a encounter full discipline is a little different. You can only use the move technique once and the standard technique once per round. While with an at-will full discipline, you can use the move technique twice, by replacing your standard action with a move action.
An action point basically is the only way to switch from one Full Discipline to another within a round.
This presents a couple of interesting uses for the movement portions of the move aspects of the at-will full discipline powers:
Spitting Cobra – foot races, the +2 to speed really helps.
Dragon’s Tail – swap places with adjacent allies to take advantage of the ally’s mark and the marked being out of position to attack the ally. Thus, getting the ally to a place of safety and giving the enemy a -2 to attack or damage, in the case of a paladin. Perform it twice in a round and really cause some problems for the enemy.
Crane’s Wing – jumping. Basically, changes the distance for a jump to 2x+1 from a standing start. Monl’s aren’t going to fall into pits very often, if they are trying to jump over them.
Five Storms – shifting 4 squares in a round! Great way to get around the battlefield.
You've used the power. It's expended until you take a short rest. You can't "save" a partial power for another round any more than you can save a secondary attack from pick-your-power for the round after you originally hit.
That's not quite the same. If I hit with an attack that says that I get a secondary attack, the act of activating that power (primary attack, secondary attack, attendant effects, etc.) is the standard action in question. It is not dependent or related to another action I could take in that round.
With Full Disciplines, however, we have two independent actions (a standard and a move), except they come in one package, a single power. Since I can do the move part of a Full Discipline, and still do the standard part later in that round, it certainly didn't expend itself after the move and before the standard. Contrast this with a Wizard using, say, Expeditious Retreat and then a Standard action power. Expeditious Retreat is expended in its entirity after the move action ends.
So what happens when the move and the standard of a Full Discipline are separated into rounds rather than within the same round? We've already established that one part doesn't expend the power if it has a second part later that round, but this does nothing to say what happens otherwise.
I'll accept your answer as one answer (heck, I thought of it myself), but not as THE answer. Not yet. This is way too up in the air.
So what happens when the move and the standard of a Full Discipline are separated into rounds rather than within the same round? We've already established that one part doesn't expend the power if it has a second part later that round, but this does nothing to say what happens otherwise.
But you can't separate the move and standards of a single power over multiple rounds. You can't, for instance, save the move component of a Full Discipline for a later round, any more than a Fighter could say "I won't take my move action this round, and next round I'll have two move actions."
The Full Discipline is just a power with two components, one costing a Standard Action, and one costing Move Action. You can use either, or both, in any order, within your turn, but you can't bank a component for a later turn.
And as far as Encounter powers go, if you use either OR both parts on your turn, you've used that Encounter power. So if you burn the Standard Action component of an Encounter Full Discipline, even if you wanted to then replace your standard move action on your next turn with the one from the encounter power, you can't - it's gone.
Are you really not seeing how someone can see a disconnect between "using a Full Discipline move and the power not being expended that turn because the player is going to use his Full Discipline standard this turn" and "using a Full Discipline move this turn, without using the other part, expends both parts"?
Let me go through the logic I'm using.
General rule: Once you go through the action activating an expendable power (Encounter or Daily) requires, the power is expended (baring Effects which may come into play later; see Warden Daily powers).
Specific rule: If you spend the action required for one part of a Full Discipline power, you may or may not have expended the whole thing.
The "may not" is clearly defined (if you're going to use the other part this round). The "may" is not. I would like the "may" to be defined and set out in the rules for the new subsystem.
One answer, not THE answer.
The first post doesn't actually clarify the "may," but it's clarified later on by some WotC folks.
The answer.
The first post doesn't actually clarify the "may," but it's clarified later on by some WotC folks.
Thank you. That is helpful.
Each half can only be used once as part of the power, thus you cannot trade your standard for a move and use the move twice.
If it's an at-will you can. See the linked official answer in above post.
At-will powers are... usable at will. ;)