Opinions?
Well, we have a small spoiler on how it works. I'm still up in the air on it. I mean you don't have to give up a class feature for it, and they give you a few benefits, and of course you could have Warlocks, Sorcerors, or swordmages have them (I kind of like the cat scouting for a swordmage). I'm just gathering info, like I said, I'm still undecided on whether I like it or not.
Opinions?
I kinda like it, although I'm not convinced we've seen the whole (mechanical) picture yet. That said, I like how it's distinct from the Animal Companion concept, as well as clearly not a combat character; it reflects the way Familiars ought to be, IMHO.
I like the passive/active modes, you can choose just how much the familiar interacts with the party without having the DM constantly asking, "what is your familiar doing now?"
I also hope to see some of the old powers return, seeing thru their eyes, casting thru them, etc, at the appropriate tiers, of course.
Bel
1. Swap out a class feature.
2. Multiclass feat into a unique power tree.
3. Swap powers out to invoke specific themes. I can see even more unique classes coming down the line. Bard/Fighter MC with a Familar and Spiked Chain Mastery is going to be fun.
Did anyone else get the "Order of the Stick" thought of the 'disappearing raven' joke?
Did anyone else get the "Order of the Stick" thought of the 'disappearing raven' joke?
I certainly did, as I succeeded at my Knowledge (web-comics) check thanks to my trusty which has of course been by my side this whole time.
DM: "Elgre the Wizard makes his save vs. the Maximized Fireball. Sadly, his Rat Familiar is now dead. Start subtracting your XP."
My biggest comment is that the bonus to your checks should be typed. Otherwise, they look about like they should be, though I have to question why they're specific to arcanists - the way they're written, they really could be any old character's pet.
I agree on both counts. No reason to introduce (further) untyped bonuses. And no reason to restrict such a simple mechanic to Arcane characters (that we've yet seen).
That said, much like many of the Class/Race combo feats, I don't mind the restriction - it's much like the "Weapon Mastery" feat trees being limited to Martial classes. It's easy enough to house rule around, and it's a nice little "defining" element for Arcane characters.
Of course we didn't see everything yet, for example the feat talks about defenses and we don't know them. And if it has defenses it surely has HP or a special "virtual HP pool" like that of the Shaman's spirit, which is of the type "do X damage and kill it also inflicting damage to the owner, or do X-1 and you did nothing".
Something you could have missed, it isn't actually restricted to Arcane *classes*. A character who simply has a multiclass feat of an arcane class should qualify too with no problems, so that if you want to play a berserker named Minsc with his "miniaturized giant space hamster" on his shoulder, you can do it by taking even only the Bard or Swordmage multiclass feat, and then the familiar feat.
The only thing that bugs me is the extreme goodness of it and not having had this before..! This should be a PHb1 thing
Pardon me, but can someone direct me to this small spoiler of how familiars work? I appear to have missed it, and am very interested.
Here you are, scroll down till Arcane Power preview.
Pardon me, but can someone direct me to this small spoiler of how familiars work? I appear to have missed it, and am very interested.
Linky here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4pr/20090302 . (No subscription required.)
On familiars: I'm loving how things look so far.
Interesting point on the granted bonuses. Maybe other animals will grant various typed bonuses. Aren't the cat and demon ones (to Acrobatics and Intimidate) automatically considered "feat bonuses" though??As for who can have a familiar, I think by RAW any character with an MC into an arcane class will count as that arcane class, right? That's how it works for PPs anyway, IIRC.
I really like the special ability of the cat familiar...how it can be any distance away from the master. Sounds like there may be some cool differences between types of familiars.
And I had forgot to say that too, but it was my thought, the special ability of the cat is good and makes one hope for other good ones.
Another thought is that there's a hint at the possibility of "non-creature" familiars... I instantly thought about the spellbook with feet, a miniature familiar made by Citadel for early Warhammer
Oh and they had other strange familiars, one of them looked like a Black Mage ante litteram, even if reduced to extra-tiny dimensions. It was my favorite.It instead seems to be more about fluff in having an animal companion, then it does to convey an advantage to wizards at this stage. Like others I'm expecting more feats that will make the companions more useful. Although even if they don't, I might get one anyway as a story-prop if one seems to fit (I've got a fire genasi wizard so I'd want it fire-related).
I certainly did, as I succeeded at my Knowledge (web-comics) check thanks to my trusty which has of course been by my side this whole time.
Would that be a troll? :P
That said, much like many of the Class/Race combo feats, I don't mind the restriction - it's much like the "Weapon Mastery" feat trees being limited to Martial classes. It's easy enough to house rule around, and it's a nice little "defining" element for Arcane characters.
This. It's a flavor issue not a power issue. A familiar is more then a simple pet. Its a special companion bound to its master by unseen magical forces, or even an external manifestation of the masters soul. I'm far more forgiving of Arcane classes (including multiclasses) getting exclusivity of familiars than with rangers (not including multiclass) getting exclusivity of beast companions.
I'm still hopeful that Primal Power, Martial Power II, or a Dragon article will fix that. I still think that a ranger mulriclass feat that granted a beast companion would be perfectly balanced, as one would still need to take power swap feats and paragon multiclass or take an appropriate paragon path to get it do much more then provide a flanking partner.
Would that be a troll? :P
I'm not sure what to make of this this.
I could get a chibithullu for my Starlock!!!
Arcane - Familar feats
Divine - Channel Divinity, Domains feats.
Primal - Tribal feats.
I like the class sub-systems.
Would that be a troll? :P
No... this is a troll:
;)
Also I don't see why the skill check bonuses need to be typed since most skill check bonuses stack anyway.
They do indicate more feats for familiars since it says each familiar feat gives the familiar a +1 to its defenses. I assume that like animal companions there's a base stat block (which they didn't show) and each type of familiar adds to it.
Also how I read it is that in passive mode the familiar isn't destroyable, targetable, and possibly not even visible.
I wouldn't mind a MC ranger beastmaster feat so other classes could have an animal companion but just buying an exotic animal shouldn't give you bonuses since you'd have to bond to it in some way (like a ranger does) to have it be effective in combat.
Also it looks like arcane familiars (and since they specificy arcane we may see familiars for other power sources at some point) are only temporarildy 'destroyed' and eventually reform. I suspect that they may work like some of the other companions and if they are destroyed not only does the character lose their benefits but also has to burn a healing surge or take another penalty, and perhaps only an extended rest would get the familiar back and remove the penalty/restore the healing surge.
Martial - Weapon Specilization feats.
Arcane - Familar feats
Divine - Channel Divinity, Domains feats.
Primal - Tribal feats.
I like the class sub-systems.
I think the tribal feats were already mentioned in an article. They gave a bonus that scaled with the number of people "in the tribe" who were present, topping out at +5. They aren't Primal specific. They are feats that benefit a group that decides to all get them.
Here's the Article
It seems that the good folks at Wizards are providing me with nearly everything I could wish for in the forthcoming Arcane Power book and I'm very excited about it. I will finally be able to play a summoning/conjuring wizard that specializes in binding otherworldly creatures. I can have a hideous little lickspittle demon servant for my familiar and have a magic tome for an implement. All of this, combined with previous articles in Dragon magazine that gave me more Necromancy and Illusion spells, ( My two other favorite types of magic ) make me a very happy camper. :D
Wizards are my favorite class in 4th edition ( Yes, I know there are many- perhaps most- out there who will think me mad for saying so ). I only had a few complaints about the new iteration of the class; one, was that they couldn't have familiars and two, that you couldn't really play a pure "summoner" type mage. I've also ( In every edition ) wished that a wizards tome had a more active and interesting mechanical function in the game, than simply storing your spells. While I don't think the Wizard is quite as weak at controlling as many others, I do think they could use a bit of a boost, in that regard, and I feel confident wizards R&D will address this issue with the new powers.
It seems that the good folks at Wizards are providing me with nearly everything I could wish for in the forthcoming Arcane Power book and I'm very excited about it. I will finally be able to play a summoning/conjuring wizard that specializes in binding otherworldly creatures. I can have a hideous little lickspittle demon servant for my familiar and have a magic tome for an implement. All of this, combined with previous articles in Dragon magazine that gave me more Necromancy and Illusion spells, ( My two other favorite types of magic ) make me a very happy camper. :D
You made me want to play Wizard! :D But I feel I need a race which has not been invented yet. Something really spooky. Maybe a reflavored Gnome could work. Or a mean Deva.
Whoa, the level of ninjaedness was high on this one, we did a furious ninja battle marius4! :D
Wow. I think I must have gone to get something to eat before clicking submit or something. Haha. That time difference there is about the equivalent of being cut in half in a single stroke. 
And I had forgot to say that too, but it was my thought, the special ability of the cat is good and makes one hope for other good ones.
No, no. I totally won this one. It was my thought! :P
Another thought is that there's a hint at the possibility of "non-creature" familiars... I instantly thought about the spellbook with feet, a miniature familiar made by Citadel for early Warhammer
Ha....those are interesting ideas. I've never thought or heard of having a spellbook familiar. Like with little feet that appear or something?? That's kinda funny! Item familiars in general could work I guess. Something like having a sentient item maybe? Good luck getting your sentient dagger to scout for you, though! :D
I like how familiars aren't real creatures but bound spirits, from the Abyss or elsewhere. This makes it reasonable why they're bound to arcane classes since they're not just a pet with bonuses.
Also I don't see why the skill check bonuses need to be typed since most skill check bonuses stack anyway.
They do indicate more feats for familiars since it says each familiar feat gives the familiar a +1 to its defenses. I assume that like animal companions there's a base stat block (which they didn't show) and each type of familiar adds to it.
Also how I read it is that in passive mode the familiar isn't destroyable, targetable, and possibly not even visible.
I wouldn't mind a MC ranger beastmaster feat so other classes could have an animal companion but just buying an exotic animal shouldn't give you bonuses since you'd have to bond to it in some way (like a ranger does) to have it be effective in combat.
Also it looks like arcane familiars (and since they specificy arcane we may see familiars for other power sources at some point) are only temporarildy 'destroyed' and eventually reform. I suspect that they may work like some of the other companions and if they are destroyed not only does the character lose their benefits but also has to burn a healing surge or take another penalty, and perhaps only an extended rest would get the familiar back and remove the penalty/restore the healing surge.
I also like the more arcane touch to familiars being acknowledged at base as supernatural.....spirits, manifestations, etc.....and not just normal pets.
Good point on the skill bonuses. I guess with 3e's skill points/ranks system gone things are a little more static. This type of accumulation of bonuses may be balanced just fine.
On the comparison to the animal companion stat block(s), weren't there just different types of base creatures that you could fluff around? Like "raven" stats could be used for crows if you wanted, "wolf"//hyena//dog, "giant spider"//giant beetle//bunny rabbit? (No, I'm serious on the rabbit one!) I could maybe see that structure for familiars, but it might be a problem that familiars seem so specifically fluff-oriented (e.g., the cat familiar seems awfully cat-like to stand in for, say, a squirrel). Regardless of that, one simple stat block or formula for any character's familiar of any type might work out well since they're non-combatants.
As for passive mode, I read it as a simplification that your familiar is just taking cover on your body so forget about it in regards to rules. I suppose it could completely absorb into your spirit or something though, too, and thus gain total immunity.
My biggest comment is that the bonus to your checks should be typed. Otherwise, they look about like they should be, though I have to question why they're specific to arcanists - the way they're written, they really could be any old character's pet.
While I'm with you for other classes being able to have a familiar, they way it's written really makes more sense for just arcane classes. The familiars now are more like spirit companions and not flesh/blood creatures like animal companions. So it really makes sense. I mean shamans already have a spirit companion, this is basically a version of those. From what it sounds it's tweeked to be more suitable for a character who isn't exactly relying on the companion as a combat aid, but more as a companion and smaller aid.
That being said, I do wish they'd create a system for non-ranger/shaman/arcane classes to have a companion. But really that's what asking the DM is for. And at least with how the system is now, it's nice to have a good guideline. You're a rogue who's come to rely on say...a crow or cat to aid in your thievery, now there's a set model to go on. Make the person take a feat just so they're not getting a bonus for free, and there ya go. I like that. I mean I'm all for crafting my own stuff for D&D but having guidelines down make it easier and makes our DM happier.
I like familiars, like that they're spirits, but I have to wonder what an artificer familiar might look like.
I'm making mine a lemur with goggles. They do nothing.
At best guess - an artificer familiar would be a homonculus.
Or a little clockwork animal!
On top of the question of Artificer Familiars, I find myself wondering what would be appropriate to the Bard and Swordmage.
An Artificer's familiar would be a homunculus. For Bards and Swordmage, perhaps an object familiar would be best; an instrument for a Bard and a sword for a Swordmage.
An Artificer's familiar would be a homunculus. For Bards and Swordmage, perhaps an object familiar would be best; an instrument for a Bard and a sword for a Swordmage.
An object bonded through arcane means does not a familiar make. It'd be an implement, no?
Honestly, I see songbirds for bards or maybe any animal that can be taught to perform tricks. Owls are nice as well for the lore-minded bards.
I imagine swordmages to be more diverse (just like any other arcane practitioner). It depends on their Aegis type (a fierce half-wild animal for Assault/ slow, deliberate and durable for Shield).
I have to say, the 4E familiars are kick ass from what I've seen so far! I have a drow duskblade (swordmage) from Eberron that is DEFINITELY going to get a familiar. If they print a spider or any other arachnoid familiar, I will be getting a scorpion to symbolize his relationship with his god, Vulkoor. (DM gave him a Mark of Vulkoor tat, s'pretty awesome)
I'm eagerly awaiting familiar feats that will allow you to further customize and power them up-it's what should have happened with the Ranger's Beast Companion.
Just wait for Martial Power 2.... :P
Honestly, I see songbirds for bards
"I used to hear a sparrow singing, baby…" *in the voice of Marvin Gaye – Here my Dear*
For bards birds would work well (especially if you want a Mercedes Lackey feel to your bards), as would most animals. Heck a monkey would work too and your insrument could be a hurdey-gurdey
Swordmages you'd likely get small animals for a aegis of defense one, for aegis of assault raptor (crow, hawk, etc.) or drake familiars would work well.
Warlocks would like get ones that reflect their pact:
Dark - spider, bat, rat.
Fey - cat, badger, drake, most any other animal
Infernal - demon, bat, rat, cat
Star - demon (looking like a miniature abberant creature) or similar
This would be easier knowing what types of familiars they'll stat out besides just cat and demon
And of course it shouldn't be too hard to come up with new types based on what they have.The system seems pretty easy:
Tiny/small creature size
Passive gives a skill check bonus
Active gives a couple other bonuses thematically related to the familiar type
Good point, though I'm pretty sure they're not going to limit your familiar choices based on what class or pact you have since it is a feat you're having to take, but yeah there are some that would fit certain classes/pacts better.
But yeah, it'll be nice to see what familiars they have, at least we only have to wait till next month for AP. And with how it's set up I'm sure it wont be hard to create your own familiar. Also, if you checked out the table of contents they posted for PH2, one of the things were Customizable Spirit Companions or something like that for the shaman. So whether that's just their way of listing what animals there are for companions, or maybe to just give you guidelines to put any animal into the spirit companion mold. If that's true maybe they'll have the same setup for familiars.