The basic idea behind them is that they channel the spirits of nature (animals, terrain, and weather) to destroy those who would defile nature. They're clearly big, tough characters who like to rough stuff up with a big weapon from only two inches away, but there's definitely spirituality to their powers too. For example, at least one of their powers uses "Spectral Vines" to slow an enemy.
Their coolest powers are definitely their dailies, which are polymorph powers. Rather than totally shifting into a different form, however, they instead adopt several of the features of their form, and in the process gain access to a special encounter power (unique to each form). Four first-level dailies are listed: "Form of the Fearsome Ram", "Form of the Relentless Panther", "Form of the Willowy Sentinel", and "Form of Winter's Herald." (As an example, the Fearsome Ram gives you the horns and hooves of a ram, beefs up your charge attacks, and adds a push to your attacks; it also grants you a "2W + Strength, push + prone" Encounter attack.)
Their coolest powers are definitely their dailies, which are polymorph powers. Rather than totally shifting into a different form, however, they instead adopt several of the features of their form, and in the process gain access to a special encounter power (unique to each form). Four first-level dailies are listed: "Form of the Fearsome Ram", "Form of the Relentless Panther", "Form of the Willowy Sentinel", and "Form of Winter's Herald." (As an example, the Fearsome Ram gives you the horns and hooves of a ram, beefs up your charge attacks, and adds a push to your attacks; it also grants you a "2W + Strength, push + prone" Encounter attack.)
Wait... What? Their Daily Attack evocation grants an Encounter Attack evocation?
Huh. I can kind of see how that might work; basically letting the Warden gain the polymporhic benefits of the power without needing to make an attack right away; by delaying the attack portion of the power till a better opportunity arises. Is something like this the mechanic?
Contrast to the Barbarian's Rage evokations; which grant stance benefits but requires an attack to be made on activation.
Wait... What? Their Daily Attack evocation grants an Encounter Attack evocation?
Huh. I can kind of see how that might work; basically letting the Warden gain the polymporhic benefits of the power without needing to make an attack right away; by delaying the attack portion of the power till a better opportunity arises. Is something like this the mechanic?
Contrast to the Barbarian's Rage evokations; which grant stance benefits but requires an attack to be made on activation.
Yes, that's pretty much it.
Another interesting point is that, unlike the barbarian who must change his stance, the warden can stack dailies on top of each other.
Thanks. That was exactly what I was looking for.
You're welcome!
Actually, I'm glad you made sense of that rambling post.As far as my impression of the Warden: I like it! My biggest concern was that the Primal Defender would just be a "nature paladin", so my fears have been alleviated.
Yes, that's pretty much it.
Another interesting point is that, unlike the barbarian who must change his stance, the warden can stack dailies on top of each other.
Are you sure? I guess I just didn't realize that that was possible.
We still haven't seen the full description of the Polymorph keyword yet, have we? It might have a clause similar to the one that the Stance keyword has, saying you can only have one such effect active at a time.
We still haven't seen the full description of the Polymorph keyword yet, have we? It might have a clause similar to the one that the Stance keyword has, saying you can only have one such effect active at a time.
I would not expect so. Polymorph is listed in the players' handbook. They are just: "(e)ffects that alter a creature's physical form."
I see no reason for the keyword to be errataed. If a specific power needs to be more restricted, either adding a specific clause to the description, the Stance keyword, or a new keyword such as [Beast Form], will serve the purpose.
Warlocks already have three spells (Shroud of Black Steel, Shadow Form, and Wings of the Fiend) that Polymorph them until the end of their encounter. They are are not mutually exclusive. You can currently use them in any combination you may wish.
AC fares a little better, as depending on the build, you can add a secondary stat (con or wis) to AC instead of dex/int. Assuming Hide armor, a heavy shield and a 16 on your secondary stat, that's AC 18 at level 1. Good, but low for a sword and board defender.
Otherwise, I see no other major disadvantage for the warden compared to Paladin/Fighter/Swordmage. But then again, better ask a CharOp regular to be sure. :D
Wait... What? Their Daily Attack evocation grants an Encounter Attack evocation?
Huh. I can kind of see how that might work; basically letting the Warden gain the polymporhic benefits of the power without needing to make an attack right away; by delaying the attack portion of the power till a better opportunity arises. Is something like this the mechanic?
Yes.
Imagine if the barbarian could activate his rage as a minor action, and delay using the actual attack from his daily attack rage power until later in the fight. That's how this works. The daily grants you an attack and a suite of abilities that last for the whole encounter, just like a rage. But you enter the polymorph as a minor action, and then make the attack whenever you get around to it.
Yes, that's pretty much it.
Another interesting point is that, unlike the barbarian who must change his stance, the warden can stack dailies on top of each other.
That's interesting. I did not interpret the powers that way - I figured that "assuming the form of" meant that you changed entirely to that form (dropping any existing form). Indeed, it doesn't say that, I just inferred that from the way it's worded.
I've seen arguments that the Warden is less "sticky" than other defenders- Sure, he can mark a bunch of foes at once, but, he can't stop them from walking away from him, and his ranged Immidate Action vs-mark power slides 1 square without dealing damage AFTER the attack.
This is definitely true. While the Warden can mark multiple enemies, they must all be adjacent to him, and once they're not adjacent to him anymore, he really can't do much of anything to punish them for attacking one of his allies. Sliding it one square AFTER it's hit your ally is pretty pathetic.
Also if you use this power on a monster that you marked a couple of rounds ago and has moved on to attack another ally it can be particularly useful.
It slides, slows and prohibits shifting. A monster would need to think about where the hell it's going to attack from if he doesn't want the cost to be greater than the benefit of attacking.
Also if you use this power on a monster that you marked a couple of rounds ago and has moved on to attack another ally it can be particularly useful.
you're mising the durations. the interrupt debuffs until the end of the creatures turn, (read, since they moved first, right after they finish the attack) and the mark lasts until the end of your next turn.
True, but still, it can have it's use, specially against monsters that use an OA. The monster would have attacked outside of it's turn so when it finally comes he will be slowed and can't shift and if you slide him quite possibly flanked or in an unfortunate position to feel the pain. It isn't as useless as some believe, in another thread several uses for it were listed. Granted if the effect lasted until the end of the creature's next turn more people could see it's usefulness, but as it stands it gives monsters something to think about before they do OA, or merely attack as sometimes monsters attack and then move, depending on the situation.
but if they attack them move, they they are still next to you,, because of the mark duration.
You see most Defenders fall into 3 types. A "Sticky' Defender who is very much the classical Fighter and less so the Paladin, a master of movement canceling. The "Denial" Defender who either punishes or interrupts his foes for not attacking him; basically the Paladin and Sword Mage to a T. Finally the "Pusher" who is great a breaking up trash mobs, getting foes off of a friend, and can take the responce. The Figher and Sword Mage are decend pushers in their own right, but the Warden is the master of this talent. Especially when he steps into a group of mobs and makes them seriously consider wasting a move to get away.
What makes the Warden so nice is the Forms he can change into that stack extra delicous side effects when he desides to 'push'. Knock prone, slowed, etc, etc. Very Defenderish.
Wait... What? Their Daily Attack evocation grants an Encounter Attack evocation?
Huh. I can kind of see how that might work; basically letting the Warden gain the polymporhic benefits of the power without needing to make an attack right away; by delaying the attack portion of the power till a better opportunity arises. Is something like this the mechanic?
Contrast to the Barbarian's Rage evokations; which grant stance benefits but requires an attack to be made on activation.
Last time I checked, they haven't released more than a playtest of the Barbarian, so it could be that we'll see something similar for them. As opposed to having to use rage strike and another daily to do extra damage.
I think I've got the Warden figured out. He's a 'Pusher' style Defender.
You see most Defenders fall into 3 types. A "Sticky' Defender who is very much the classical Fighter and less so the Paladin, a master of movement canceling. The "Denial" Defender who either punishes or interrupts his foes for not attacking him; basically the Paladin and Sword Mage to a T. Finally the "Pusher" who is great a breaking up trash mobs, getting foes off of a friend, and can take the responce. The Figher and Sword Mage are decend pushers in their own right, but the Warden is the master of this talent. Especially when he steps into a group of mobs and makes them seriously consider wasting a move to get away.
What makes the Warden so nice is the Forms he can change into that stack extra delicous side effects when he desides to 'push'. Knock prone, slowed, etc, etc. Very Defenderish.
I think this is actually a quite astute assessment, Cleric. I thought so when I first read this comment, but I realized that I hadn't told you so. Anyway, I think you're on to something here.