Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 shonuff77 Jun 26, 2008 19:18:04	But this makes it look like monks won't be in the PHBII . The three power sources appear to be Arcane, Divine, and Primal When will we be seeing monks..... 2010?!
#2 Nautilus Jun 26, 2008 19:36:20	PHB3: Shadow, Ki and Psionic Heroes. Featuring: Hexblade (shadow defender) Necromancer (shadow leader) Ninja (shadow striker) Witch (shadow controller) Monk (Ki Striker) Samurai (Ki Leader) Psychic Warrior (Psionic Defender) Telepath (Psionic Controller)
#3 GMforPowergamers Jun 26, 2008 22:11:46	I was at gen con last year and not 1, not 2 but 3 WotC employees told me that psionics would be comeing out almost right away even though they were not in the PHB... now here we are looking at 1 year later... Where are my psionics...:hoppingma:hoppingma:hoppingma oh, and I would like a necromancer too
#4 GMforPowergamers Jun 26, 2008 22:14:22	PHB3: Shadow, Ki and Psionic Heroes. Featuring: Hexblade (shadow defender) Necromancer (shadow leader) Ninja (shadow striker) Witch (shadow controller) Monk (Ki Striker) Samurai (Ki Leader) Psychic Warrior (Psionic Defender) Telepath (Psionic Controller) switch ninja with shadow dancer, and drop witch...add a soul knife and a TK class for psi...and that will make my day
#5 hal Jun 26, 2008 23:15:44	Actually, I think the PHB3 will only have 2 Powers in it for 4 classes each. So I expect Shadow and Psionics with the PHB 4 with Ki and Elemental.
#6 merrikcale Jun 27, 2008 9:22:24	When will we be seeing monks..... 2010?! I do recall seeing somewhere that the designers will be releasing a base class in the DDi, perhaps you will see the monk there even before the PHB2
#7 shonuff77 Jun 27, 2008 20:54:34	I do recall seeing somewhere that the designers will be releasing a base class in the DDi, perhaps you will see the monk there even before the PHB2 ugh.. thats pretty janked up though..
#8 malcolm_n Jul 02, 2008 10:02:14	If they continue their trend for PHB 3, then it'll be Arcane, Divine, and (insert another power here). After all, Arcane and Divine are easily the most broad of power sources. :p That's how the new plan for 4e works. That way, WotC doesn't have to worry about running out of ideas for at least another 7 years. Remember, their current plan was something like 8 campaign settings they'd thought up to match up with 8ish power sources. I kid, of course, but it wouldn't surprise me either.
#9 merrikcale Jul 02, 2008 10:28:22	If they continue their trend for PHB 3, then it'll be Arcane, Divine, and (insert another power here). After all, Arcane and Divine are easily the most broad of power sources. :p That's how the new plan for 4e works. That way, WotC doesn't have to worry about running out of ideas for at least another 7 years. Remember, their current plan was something like 8 campaign settings they'd thought up to match up with 8ish power sources. I kid, of course, but it wouldn't surprise me either. The PHB2 had arcane and divine because there is only 2 such classes each in the first PHB as opposed to the 4 martial classes.
#10 Belorin Jul 02, 2008 10:39:47	PHB III should be all new power sources, pick any two of the following; Elemental Ki Psionic Shadow With the remaining two in PHB IV Bel
#11 redwulfe Jul 02, 2008 14:45:22	No psyonics. Time for revolting sorry wrong kind of revolting. Tim
#12 merrikcale Jul 02, 2008 14:56:23	PHB III should be all new power sources, pick any two of the following; Elemental Ki Psionic Shadow With the remaining two in PHB IV Bel how is to say there won't be 2 of each in PHB3 and PHB4 or even that they come up with new power sources by then to add to the miz
#13 redwulfe Jul 02, 2008 15:16:52	The PHB2 had arcane and divine because there is only 2 such classes each in the first PHB as opposed to the 4 martial classes. That is to say that they have dicided that every thing has to be even. I think that is to large of an assumption or we would have seen an aditional controller instead of a third striker in PHB I. Tim
#14 merrikcale Jul 02, 2008 15:45:43	That is to say that they have dicided that every thing has to be even. I think that is to large of an assumption or we would have seen an aditional controller instead of a third striker in PHB I. Tim I don't think it has to be even necessarily but I do think they will keep it generally close.
#15 igotsmeakabob Jul 02, 2008 15:48:29	I do recall seeing somewhere that the designers will be releasing a base class in the DDi, perhaps you will see the monk there even before the PHB2 Aside from Artificer, you mean? Or is that the one you're thinking of?
#16 merrikcale Jul 02, 2008 15:50:23	Aside from Artificer, you mean? Or is that the one you're thinking of? I am not thinking of anything in particular. I just heard somewhere that a class would be included. By the way, the Artificer will be released in the Eberron Players Guide in 2009. The article in DDi is just a play test thingie
#17 eagleye Jul 02, 2008 15:57:41	PHB3: Shadow, Ki and Psionic Heroes. Featuring: Hexblade (shadow defender) Necromancer (shadow leader) Ninja (shadow striker) Witch (shadow controller) Monk (Ki Striker) Samurai (Ki Leader) Psychic Warrior (Psionic Defender) Telepath (Psionic Controller) You can safely add the Illusionist as a shadow controller, I'm not too sure about the Witch though.
#18 hellmute Jul 02, 2008 16:07:16	Throw out the ninja and samurai both. The default setting is NOT Oriental Adventures....the throw away all the psionic devotees.
#19 igotsmeakabob Jul 02, 2008 22:22:38	I am not thinking of anything in particular. I just heard somewhere that a class would be included. By the way, the Artificer will be released in the Eberron Players Guide in 2009. The article in DDi is just a play test thingie Well, its a "test" version so that Eberron games can have their artificers, since we have to wait so damn long for the books.
#20 Ra-Tiel Jul 03, 2008 9:19:55	Throw out the ninja and samurai both. The default setting is NOT Oriental Adventures....the throw away all the psionic devotees. Well, the default setting isn't Ravenloft either, so throw out all that Shadow stuff too. :P Now that would be interesting. A PH2 with 288 empty pages, because it doesn't contain anything that wouldn't fit with anyone's image of what "fantasy" roleplaying should be like. ;)
#21 merrikcale Jul 03, 2008 11:15:27	Now that would be interesting. A PH2 with 288 empty pages, because it doesn't contain anything that wouldn't fit with anyone's image of what "fantasy" roleplaying should be like. ;) I'd buy it
#22 hellmute Jul 03, 2008 11:18:16	Well, the default setting isn't Ravenloft either, so throw out all that Shadow stuff too. :P Now that would be interesting. A PH2 with 288 empty pages, because it doesn't contain anything that wouldn't fit with anyone's image of what "fantasy" roleplaying should be like. ;) Look again! It would be a PHB devoted to monks! :evillaugh
#23 Ra-Tiel Jul 03, 2008 12:05:11	Look again! It would be a PHB devoted to monks! :evillaugh Nonono, if you threw out ki and psionics, and I threw out shadow, then the book'd be empty. :P I'd buy it
#24 aloki Jul 03, 2008 12:30:33	Depending on how they flavor the Ninja it could even be Ki, or even freaking Martial.
#25 hellmute Jul 03, 2008 16:06:17	Nonono, if you threw out ki and psionics, and I threw out shadow, then the book'd be empty. :P I threw out ninja and samurai only from the ki users. ;)
#26 Belorin Jul 03, 2008 16:40:49	Nonono, if you threw out ki and psionics, and I threw out shadow, then the book'd be empty. :P No, there would still be elemental. Bel
#27 apollyonschosen Jul 06, 2008 13:46:46	Will power source ever have any real meaning? Mechanically? Or will it always be a convenient descriptor and excuse to limit release of certain classes? A phb with only 2 power sources would be a rip off. It should be 4, not 2.
#28 Ra-Tiel Jul 07, 2008 7:45:23	No, there would still be elemental. Bel Uhhm... no. PH2 includes "arcane, divine and primal heroes". No elemental yet. :P Also, mine and hellmute's comments were based on the proposed contents of PH3 by Nautilus. ;)
#29 Belorin Jul 07, 2008 8:09:57	that's what I meant, of the four possible power sources for PHB III, if you throw out Ki, Psionic and Shadow; then Elemental would be left. Bel
#30 Ra-Tiel Jul 07, 2008 14:09:59	that's what I meant, of the four possible power sources for PHB III, if you throw out Ki, Psionic and Shadow; then Elemental would be left. Bel I'd not be so sure about that one. There's no statement that there will be a limited number of classes per powersource/role combination. What's preventing them from doing a PH on "divine, primal, and martial" heroes, or something like that? However, considering that we already get a "Martial Power" splatbook next month with "only" 4 martial classes out, all bets are off because so far we lack the martial controller.
#31 Belorin Jul 07, 2008 18:13:34	Supposedly the Martial power book will provide new 'builds' for the existing classes, perhaps a double weapon build for the fighter and a swashbuckler for those the like to swash their buckles. I think the martial controller was the role they were talking about when discussing not all positions in the grid could be filled. Bel
#32 drbeard Jul 07, 2008 18:17:39	I dunno, Ranger could've been a martial controller easily enough. The biggest trouble would be if you had the two-weapon build and had to get into melee to do your controlling.
#33 the_ubbergeek Jul 07, 2008 18:32:55	PoL is probably a pŝionic world, betwen FR and Eberron in it's importance. Also, PoL is not europe or something... But a fantasy world. Why not a Sha'ir or Shugenja, by example?
#34 Ra-Tiel Jul 09, 2008 7:36:53	I dunno, Ranger could've been a martial controller easily enough. The biggest trouble would be if you had the two-weapon build and had to get into melee to do your controlling. I'm not so sure about that. The problem with a martial controller is that he probably cannot perform too well in the controller role without some heavy handwaving. A controller, by definition, is able to deal with lots of enemies at a distance, and can modify the battlefield to his group's advantage and inflict hindering conditions on his enemies. The point is, how would a martial character do that? The closest thing we got in 3E was the Gatling Chaingun Tripper, but that build also relied heavily on magic items to increase his size (and thus reach) to be really effective. The martial controller also cannot use things like caltrops or some sort of grenades, because the whole point of powers is to make a character independent from equipment. And it wouldn't make sense to only have one character being able to throw caltrops or a grenade anyway. So, the only thing that remains is some sort of archer, perhaps. In this case, however, it becomes sort of difficult to explain how a martial character could shoot 25 enemies in 6 seconds with such a precision that every single one of them was slowed/dazed/immobilized/whatever. We would basically need the equivalent of a shotgun or automatic rifle weapon or grenade launcher for a martial controller, while all we get is a single shot bolt-action gun from WW1. At most I could imagine some sort of martial ranged controller using a lot of wall or line shaped powers to emulate some sort of "strafing fire". And this doesn't even touch upon the difficulty of doing a martial melee controller. A martial leader focusing on ranged attacks, however, is completely believable and doable. Imagine a commander using color-coded arrows or bolts (to emphasis certain enemies or locations) to support his powers to coordinate fire or movement with his allies, and provides cover fire from the back to his frontline comrades.
#35 Steely_Dan Jul 09, 2008 8:37:02	As I believe the PHB II will have 4 Primal classes (barbarian, druid, shaman and witch?), 2 Arcane classes (bard and sorcerer) and 2 Divine classes (Inquisitor/Invoker and Theurge), I'm speculating the PHB III will definitely have the Psionic power source, but I'm not sure what the other 2 power sources will be out of Elemental, Ki, and Shadow. I do want my monk (Ki Striker?).
#36 jack_of_all_trades_02 Jul 09, 2008 22:25:07	You need a martial controller? How about the gadgeteer? Using a combination of science and tactical know how to create black powder grenades, alcohol spewing flamethrowers, autocrossbows, tanglefoot bags, spring loaded jumping boots, walls of fire powered with oil and greek fire. The gadgeteer could be a wimpy science type who isn't trained in armor and only knows how to use simple weapons and crossbows. An exotic specialist employed for his talent on the battlefield. The only thing needed would be some kind of limiting reagent to explain why all of these powers only work once per encounter or day.
#37 Steely_Dan Jul 10, 2008 6:13:35	You need a martial controller? Nope. They have stated that they are not obsessing about filling out the power source/role grid, so we may never see this Martial Controller some people are clamouring for, which I think is a good thing, as every idea I have seen for one has been contrived. That Engineer/Alchemist/Dragoon business was doing my head in.
#38 merrikcale Jul 10, 2008 9:05:14	You need a martial controller? No, but I kind of like the idea of a swashbuckler who moves quickly and can engage multiple adversaries using speed and acrobatics
#39 Steely_Dan Jul 10, 2008 9:12:17	No, but I kind of like the idea of a swashbuckler who moves quickly and can engage multiple adversaries using speed and acrobatics As we've seen, the Ranger can engage more than one opponent in a round, but is still a Striker. I guess the problem is that the Controller role is the hardest to pin down, even WotC has admitted this.
#40 merrikcale Jul 10, 2008 10:13:11	As we've seen, the Ranger can engage more than one opponent in a round, but is still a Striker. I guess the problem is that the Controller role is the hardest to pin down, even WotC has admitted this. well that is true
#41 Belorin Jul 10, 2008 16:46:05	Plus there's the whole controlling the battlefield thing. Bel
#42 That_Blasted_Somoflange Jul 10, 2008 21:32:46	While I do miss the psionics, or lack thereof, one thing I was thinking about is that since the Ninja and Samurai (which I feel don't need to be classes, as they can already be done with rogues and/or fighter/warlord with multiclass respectively) is that the only class to use the ki powersource would most likely be the monk. This would make the monk the perfect class to fit the bill of the DDI exclusive class that will NOT be reprinted in any book. I know I heard about WotC doing such a thing, and since people want the monk so badly, I think that would be the best way to do it, without having to build a whole bunch of ki using classes that may not necessarily fit. Though, a monk could be done as a martial class IMHO.
#43 Ra-Tiel Jul 10, 2008 21:49:57	[...] Though, a monk could be done as a martial class IMHO. But not the supernatural combatant we know from certain movies. ;) Running up walls, making leaps over 30 meters, blocking and breaking swords with his bare hands, etc. While the basic "brawler" and "beater" could of course be done with the martial power source, I think the above stretches the limits of martial characters a bit too far. ;)
#44 narukagami Jul 10, 2008 22:31:45	Question: Does Ki really need to be a separate power source? Whats wrong with martial? Just look at the Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, and Warlord powers, after all. But not the supernatural combatant we know from certain movies. ;) Running up walls, making leaps over 30 meters, blocking and breaking swords with his bare hands, etc. While the basic "brawler" and "beater" could of course be done with the martial power source, I think the above stretches the limits of martial characters a bit too far. ;) Have you looked at the classes that use the Martial power source? You can already do most of that, and the things you can't do are no stretch of the imagination at all when you look at the capabilities the martial source gives.
#45 Belorin Jul 11, 2008 1:22:32	Well they did announce Ki as a power source in the PHB, so apparently they have something as far as classes for it. Bel
#46 Steely_Dan Jul 11, 2008 1:58:37	Question: Does Ki really need to be a separate power source? We can't even see this horse anymore. This super dull debate about whether Ki/Chi/Tofu etc should be its own power source and what is wrong with Martial blah blah has been done to death, and many months ago. As it has been confirmed that Ki is a power source, there's no point in carrying on with the Ki as a power source argument, which inevitably becomes elitist and vulgar, especially when the Asianators start waving their history books and what not. For the record, I would have no problem if Martial covered monks and co., in fact, we could have just one power source: Power, and everything else is fluff/window dressing. Oh, I do hope Ki does not become a catch-all power source for any class with an Asian/Oriental name.
#47 narukagami Jul 11, 2008 2:06:15	Well they did announce Ki as a power source in the PHB, so apparently they have something as far as classes for it. Bel Thank you for your polite response. I actually hadn't even noticed that. And I do agree that hopefully it won't become the catch-all for Oriental-themed classes.
#48 drbeard Jul 12, 2008 8:24:55	And I do agree that hopefully it won't become the catch-all for Oriental-themed classes. Thirded. Then again, nothing is keeping me from having my fighter be a wuxia-style swordsman using sweeping slices and tripping enemies up with kicks and pressure point touches, or a paladin samurai armed with a tetsubo-maul smiting enemies for the glory of Erathis and the glory of civilization, or a rogue fighting bandit who hops across the battlefield like Jet Li in a pair of basketball shoes.