I have all three monster manuals up to this point....Other than the tokens (which I'm a big fan of) and some errata, is there a compelling reason for me to purchase the Monster Vault?
I have the Dungeon Master's Guide 1 and 2. I plan on purchasing the Rules Compendium. Is there a compelling reason for me to purchase the DM's Kit?
I wish that this "entry point" concept was available in the beginning. I'm definitely a big fan of simple portable systems and guides. I would prefer to not have all the hardback books that I have right now as its a little over-whelming for me. I feel like I'm the target audience for the new products, however I'm already loaded down with the original books.
In direct answer to your question: in theory, all the monsters in the three monsters manuals are fine for use with essentials products.
Major differences:
1. The marked condition is removed: abilities which end a mark are useless and would need to be rewritten to deal with a knight's "defender aura" in mind. Skirmishers need to be mobile to be effective, as do many "solo" monsters.
2. Monsters have fewer hitpoints and deal more damage in essentials products for faster combat. Heavier hitpoint monsters may exacerbate the balance problems between classes with and without daily powers. More hotpoints = more need for high-damage daily powers, and more damage = more need for mega-control dailys which take monsters out of the fight.
3. Immunities and Resistances are more powerful (and vulnerbilities less so) due to equipment choice reduction. Because players have no ability to choose their own loot in essentials, a wizard heavily invested in fire magic cannot rely on having a Frezing Staff to convert his damage type if he runs across a resistant creature (and classes in general cannot diversify their damage types with such items) Monsters in essentials are less reliant on resistance and immunity than in the Manuals, so these traits might need to be adjusted.
I think I'd have a harder time picking up the DM Kit. Aside from the maps and DM screen, its not sounding like the book is that big of a deal if you have the other references.
1. The marked condition is removed: abilities which end a mark are useless and would need to be rewritten to deal with a knight's "defender aura" in mind. Skirmishers need to be mobile to be effective, as do many "solo" monsters.
Marked isn't going anywhere. The Knight build from Heroes of the Fallen Lands doesn't have a Marking mechanic, but a mechanic that approximates it (Defender's Aura). Other Fighter builds will still Mark via Combat Challenge, Paladins will still Mark via Divine Challenge, etc. There is supposed to be a Paladin build in Heroes of the Forgotten Empires. We have no evidence (yet) to suggest so far that this Paladin does not mark. Unless this Paladin build is another that crosses to another role, it should have a marking mechanic or use Divine Challenge.
Monster's that have Mark-shedding abilities will have a harder time getting away from the Knight, but unless the Knight has a way to extend their aura, all a monster need do is get more than one square away, and the Knight's "mark" is shed.
As the title mentions, I have some foggy areas as I'm trying to grasp the concept of some of the Essentials pieces. Taking into consideration that we haven't seen the material so it is purely speculative at the moment...
I have all three monster manuals up to this point....Other than the tokens (which I'm a big fan of) and some errata, is there a compelling reason for me to purchase the Monster Vault?
There are both new monsters and old ones. However i don't know how much of each there is.
I have the Dungeon Master's Guide 1 and 2. I plan on purchasing the Rules Compendium. Is there a compelling reason for me to purchase the DM's Kit?
A few more tokens, maps, and an adventure. There's an unboxing vid on youtube, but the DM guide is mostly a re-write.
I wish that this "entry point" concept was available in the beginning. I'm definitely a big fan of simple portable systems and guides. I would prefer to not have all the hardback books that I have right now as its a little over-whelming for me. I feel like I'm the target audience for the new products, however I'm already loaded down with the original books.
Hindsight is easier then forsight, and it's better late then never, but i agree.
Major differences:
1. The marked condition is removed:
Completely false.
2. Monsters have fewer hitpoints and deal more damage in essentials products for faster combat.
This isn't an essentials thing. That's been the trend between MM1/2/3, as many people complained about slow pacing and long battles.
3. Immunities and Resistances are more powerful (and vulnerbilities less so) due to equipment choice reduction.
Partialy true, the DM controls the items a bit more, but the wishlist is still there.
1. The marked condition is removed:
Completely false.
In an essentials-only game, there will be no marked condition. If you are mixing Essentials and 4e, then yes, obviously there will still be marks. I took the OP's question to mean "what incompatibilities will exist between 4e monsters and Essentials classes?" and that's certainly one of them.
Whether or not they are phasing out the marked condition entirely is not known at this point, but I suppose the question could easily be answered: to any of the soldiers in essentials mark? If so, they clearly intend to keep it. If not, it's further evidence they're getting rid of it.
1. The marked condition is removed:
Completely false.
In an essentials-only game, there will be no marked condition. If you are mixing Essentials and 4e, then yes, obviously there will still be marks. I took the OP's question to mean "what incompatibilities will exist between 4e monsters and Essentials classes?" and that's certainly one of them.
Whether or not they are phasing out the marked condition entirely is not known at this point, but I suppose the question could easily be answered: to any of the soldiers in essentials mark? If so, they clearly intend to keep it. If not, it's further evidence they're getting rid of it.
You said it was removed, which is false. If you said it wasn't being used, then that's a different story.
It's easy to imagine several things arn't being used in essentials, like Restrained, Forestwalk, or even Stun but that doesn't mean they are being removed.
I have been saying since DMG2 when they changed the DCs that DMG3 would again change the DCs. I am guessing we will see 10, 15, 20 starting values with the better DMG2 increase in the DM Kit. Or maybe they will stop trying break down 30 levels into 10 lines and you will get 15 lines of DCs. If you have read the DMG 1 and 2, I don't think the DM Kit would be essential, but who knows what else is in it.
I wish that this "entry point" concept was available in the beginning. I'm definitely a big fan of simple portable systems and guides. I would prefer to not have all the hardback books that I have right now as its a little over-whelming for me. I feel like I'm the target audience for the new products, however I'm already loaded down with the original books.
I think the entry point system was the Starter set, which you probably don't need. There will be lots and lots of Essentials books to come!
There will be lots and lots of Essentials books to come!
10, in fact.
I have all three monster manuals up to this point....Other than the tokens (which I'm a big fan of) and some errata, is there a compelling reason for me to purchase the Monster Vault?
It'll have new versions of classic monsters (not just updates of existing versions - remember, in 4e, you don't just have 'orcs' you have 'orc druge,' 'orc warrior,' etc.. so MV could have 'orc elfsmasher' or 'orc climatechanger' or something). And, they'll presumably be using the MM3 damage formulae, so they should be useful to replace MM1 monsters that aren't keeping up with the games power inflation.
I have the Dungeon Master's Guide 1 and 2. I plan on purchasing the Rules Compendium. Is there a compelling reason for me to purchase the DM's Kit?
Probably not.
There will be lots and lots of Essentials books to come!
10, in fact.
I wouldn't call a set of dice a "book".
Essentials is a product line, with 10 products. One of those is a set of dice. There are three sets of dugneon tiles as well. Plus a starter set.
Thanks all for the informative replies. I did watch the DM's Kit unboxing video and while I would love to have the extra monster tokens and the two adventures, it did not seem to be really essential (no pun intended) for me to purchase. I think I probably will be getting the Monster Vault though.
If I were a new group this is what I would acquire:
Red Box (September) 1 adventure
Rules Compendium (September) Rules for the Game
Heroes of the Fallen Lands (September) Player Character Options
Then in October pick up:
Dungeon Masters Kit (October) 2 adventures and Great info for a DM
Then in November pick up:
Monster Vault (November) 1 adventure and tons of monsters to make your own adventures
Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdom (November) More Player Character Options
This should keep your group busy for several months (assuming 4 hrs once a week of adventuring). If you play more often than that you can find modules for print for sale you can use after you finish the 4 Essentials modules.
Also it looks like you are a DDi subscriber so you can download the Dungeon Magazines and use one of the 2 adventure paths within those (Scales of War and now Chaos Scar)
I have been saying since DMG2 when they changed the DCs that DMG3 would again change the DCs. I am guessing we will see 10, 15, 20 starting values with the better DMG2 increase in the DM Kit. Or maybe they will stop trying break down 30 levels into 10 lines and you will get 15 lines of DCs. If you have read the DMG 1 and 2, I don't think the DM Kit would be essential, but who knows what else is in it.
LoL, www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/d...