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Illusionists and Enchanters

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
MaximumHavoc
Aug 19, 2008 17:58:44 wotc has intimated that the illusionist class might have shadow as a power source. however, given that most, if not all, of the illusions likely will have the psychic keyword, i think that psionics is a more appropriate power source.

similarly, charms/enchantments should be deeply rooted in the psionics power source, which i do believe already is wotc's intent.
#2
pauln6
Aug 20, 2008 5:33:29 I still think that the gnome is going to be set up as the prime illusionist race and, as feywild glamors are linked to arcane power, I think that illusionist is going to be arcane.

Shadow magic is definitely going to be re-tooled in 4e and it will consist of single powers instead of the vast number options available to each spell under 3e. I suspect that illusionists may have some spells with the shadow descriptor but I think that most of those spells will be saved for some kind of shadowcaster class in PHBIII. My money is still on arcane.

Enchanter is a tougher call. I agree that it seems suitable for the psychic keyword.
#3
Steely_Dan
Aug 20, 2008 7:32:30 Currently I am speculating that the Illusionist will be a Shadow Controller.

I do believe they have stated that Psionics will deal a lot with charm/enchanting type powers.
#4
MaximumHavoc
Aug 20, 2008 9:56:16
I think that illusionist is going to be arcane.

at first wotc intimated that illusionist would be shador power source. then they came out with the ddi article of illusion spells (spells being arcane). however, after wizard (controller), sorceror (controller) warlock (striker), swordmage (defender) , and bard (leader), additional arcane classes seem unlikely.

to clarify what i said above. illusions having psi power source seems most appropriate. unfortunately, it is not necessarily what wotc will do.

as i see it, psion (controller) should be split between enchantments (cha) and illusions (int).
#5
Nautilus
Aug 20, 2008 17:17:05 As time goes on, I'm becoming more skeptical of the illusionist actually appearing at all, at least under that class name. Along with illusions for the wizard appearing in Arcane Power, the bard will have illusionary capabilities. Which means the illusion design space is being carved up long before the poor old illusionist makes it to the table. Will there be anything left?

There will be a shadow controller, but whether that class is called the 'illusionist' or something else remains to be seen. Giving it a different name may grant a greater freedom to take the class in non-illusion-crafting directions.
#6
jack_of_all_trades_02
Aug 20, 2008 23:45:10 I'm thinking that the illusionist as a shadow power source "schools" of magic (possibly illusion and conjuration) returning in the form of wizard powers in Arcane Power. I believe I read something in a recent article or solicitation somewhere. I think at best we'll see an illusionist paragon path in Arcane Power with some extra wizard powers with the illusion keyword.
#7
Lugritor
Aug 21, 2008 0:03:06 They have specifically stated that we will not see that many Illusions or Necromancy in Arcane Power that they wanted to keep the primary aspects of those ability separate for their own classes. My speculation is that we will see an Illusionist using Shadow as its power source focusing on semi-real illusions.
#8
Steely_Dan
Aug 21, 2008 2:13:58
My speculation is that we will see an Illusionist using Shadow as its power source focusing on semi-real illusions.

Totally agree, and it would be a nod to the shadow conjuration etc of previous editions.

I also believe the Necromancer will be a Shadow Leader, draining and buffing etc, maybe even a little conjuration.
#9
MaximumHavoc
Aug 21, 2008 14:09:56
I also believe the Necromancer will be a Shadow Leader, draining and buffing etc, maybe even a little conjuration.

pre-4e, necromancers performed two distinct functions: (i) debuffer and (ii) undead summoner/creator. in 4e, i see these two functions separated into different classes.

strange though it is to say that debuffing is a leader function, it nonetheless is the most appropriate role among the choices of leader, defender, striker and controller.

the undead summoner/creator probably is a controller.
#10
Steely_Dan
Aug 22, 2008 6:03:08
the undead summoner/creator probably is a controller.

I think the Illusionist is going to be the Shadow Controller.

I do agree with you on the Necromancer being a Shadow Leader.

Maybe they will leave the animating dead or what have you for a full on summoner class.
#11
rechan
Aug 22, 2008 7:15:57 Here's my speculation:

The Illusionist is the Bard.

In Races and Classes, it talks about the Bard having offensive abilities that confused the enemies, and made them attack their allies.
#12
Steely_Dan
Aug 22, 2008 7:31:17
Here's my speculation:

The Illusionist is the Bard.

In Races and Classes, it talks about the Bard having offensive abilities that confused the enemies, and made them attack their allies.

That sounds more like Charm to me.
#13
MaximumHavoc
Aug 22, 2008 10:16:26
Maybe they will leave the animating dead or what have you for a full on summoner class.

summoning could easily be divided into two or more classes: (i) undead summoning; (ii) summoning of natural creatures, and possibly (iii) summoning creatures from particular planes.
The Illusionist is the Bard.

In Races and Classes, it talks about the Bard having offensive abilities that confused the enemies, and made them attack their allies.

one problem is that bard is confirmed as a leader role. a leader's principal responsibility is party buffing and/or healing. so, even if the bard has some illusion spells, they will not comprise a majority of his focus. therefore, this leaves open the possibility for a class that is principally focused on illusions, which, imho, will more commonly be controller type spells.
#14
Steely_Dan
Aug 22, 2008 10:26:56
-summoning could easily be divided into two or more classes: (i) undead summoning; (ii) summoning of natural creatures, and possibly (iii) summoning creatures from particular planes.

-one problem is that bard is confirmed as a leader role. a leader's principal responsibility is party buffing and/or healing. so, even if the bard has some illusion spells, they will not comprise a majority of his focus. therefore, this leaves open the possibility for a class that is principally focused on illusions, which, imho, will more commonly be controller type spells.

-Totally

-Absolutely agree.
#15
daen
Aug 22, 2008 14:08:20 Whatever they do, I hope the Illusionist class is what it should be. By this I mean that I hope the Illusionist can actually make illusions that fool people, and can be used recreationaly.
#16
Luis_Carlos
Aug 22, 2008 14:55:57 I don´t want illusionism and necromancy with the same power souce.

Illusionism is ...fey, and the feywild is the opposite of the shadowfall. In the old D&D Illusinis and necromancy were opposite schools.

* Now D&D is more.....videogame and miniature game, and the old magic of illusionism was more...creative, more strory-telling. A weak spell with art and trick could deceived a strong but stupy enemy.

The new magic is..... like a gun of laser rays.

The new illusionist class perhaps will be called "beguiller".

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 MaximumHavoc Aug 19, 2008 17:58:44	wotc has intimated that the illusionist class might have shadow as a power source. however, given that most, if not all, of the illusions likely will have the psychic keyword, i think that psionics is a more appropriate power source. similarly, charms/enchantments should be deeply rooted in the psionics power source, which i do believe already is wotc's intent.
#2 pauln6 Aug 20, 2008 5:33:29	I still think that the gnome is going to be set up as the prime illusionist race and, as feywild glamors are linked to arcane power, I think that illusionist is going to be arcane. Shadow magic is definitely going to be re-tooled in 4e and it will consist of single powers instead of the vast number options available to each spell under 3e. I suspect that illusionists may have some spells with the shadow descriptor but I think that most of those spells will be saved for some kind of shadowcaster class in PHBIII. My money is still on arcane. Enchanter is a tougher call. I agree that it seems suitable for the psychic keyword.
#3 Steely_Dan Aug 20, 2008 7:32:30	Currently I am speculating that the Illusionist will be a Shadow Controller. I do believe they have stated that Psionics will deal a lot with charm/enchanting type powers.
#4 MaximumHavoc Aug 20, 2008 9:56:16	I think that illusionist is going to be arcane. at first wotc intimated that illusionist would be shador power source. then they came out with the ddi article of illusion spells (spells being arcane). however, after wizard (controller), sorceror (controller) warlock (striker), swordmage (defender) , and bard (leader), additional arcane classes seem unlikely. to clarify what i said above. illusions having psi power source seems most appropriate. unfortunately, it is not necessarily what wotc will do. as i see it, psion (controller) should be split between enchantments (cha) and illusions (int).
#5 Nautilus Aug 20, 2008 17:17:05	As time goes on, I'm becoming more skeptical of the illusionist actually appearing at all, at least under that class name. Along with illusions for the wizard appearing in Arcane Power, the bard will have illusionary capabilities. Which means the illusion design space is being carved up long before the poor old illusionist makes it to the table. Will there be anything left? There will be a shadow controller, but whether that class is called the 'illusionist' or something else remains to be seen. Giving it a different name may grant a greater freedom to take the class in non-illusion-crafting directions.
#6 jack_of_all_trades_02 Aug 20, 2008 23:45:10	I'm thinking that the illusionist as a shadow power source "schools" of magic (possibly illusion and conjuration) returning in the form of wizard powers in Arcane Power. I believe I read something in a recent article or solicitation somewhere. I think at best we'll see an illusionist paragon path in Arcane Power with some extra wizard powers with the illusion keyword.
#7 Lugritor Aug 21, 2008 0:03:06	They have specifically stated that we will not see that many Illusions or Necromancy in Arcane Power that they wanted to keep the primary aspects of those ability separate for their own classes. My speculation is that we will see an Illusionist using Shadow as its power source focusing on semi-real illusions.
#8 Steely_Dan Aug 21, 2008 2:13:58	My speculation is that we will see an Illusionist using Shadow as its power source focusing on semi-real illusions. Totally agree, and it would be a nod to the shadow conjuration etc of previous editions. I also believe the Necromancer will be a Shadow Leader, draining and buffing etc, maybe even a little conjuration.
#9 MaximumHavoc Aug 21, 2008 14:09:56	I also believe the Necromancer will be a Shadow Leader, draining and buffing etc, maybe even a little conjuration. pre-4e, necromancers performed two distinct functions: (i) debuffer and (ii) undead summoner/creator. in 4e, i see these two functions separated into different classes. strange though it is to say that debuffing is a leader function, it nonetheless is the most appropriate role among the choices of leader, defender, striker and controller. the undead summoner/creator probably is a controller.
#10 Steely_Dan Aug 22, 2008 6:03:08	the undead summoner/creator probably is a controller. I think the Illusionist is going to be the Shadow Controller. I do agree with you on the Necromancer being a Shadow Leader. Maybe they will leave the animating dead or what have you for a full on summoner class.
#11 rechan Aug 22, 2008 7:15:57	Here's my speculation: The Illusionist is the Bard. In Races and Classes, it talks about the Bard having offensive abilities that confused the enemies, and made them attack their allies.
#12 Steely_Dan Aug 22, 2008 7:31:17	Here's my speculation: The Illusionist is the Bard. In Races and Classes, it talks about the Bard having offensive abilities that confused the enemies, and made them attack their allies. That sounds more like Charm to me.
#13 MaximumHavoc Aug 22, 2008 10:16:26	Maybe they will leave the animating dead or what have you for a full on summoner class. summoning could easily be divided into two or more classes: (i) undead summoning; (ii) summoning of natural creatures, and possibly (iii) summoning creatures from particular planes. The Illusionist is the Bard. In Races and Classes, it talks about the Bard having offensive abilities that confused the enemies, and made them attack their allies. one problem is that bard is confirmed as a leader role. a leader's principal responsibility is party buffing and/or healing. so, even if the bard has some illusion spells, they will not comprise a majority of his focus. therefore, this leaves open the possibility for a class that is principally focused on illusions, which, imho, will more commonly be controller type spells.
#14 Steely_Dan Aug 22, 2008 10:26:56	-summoning could easily be divided into two or more classes: (i) undead summoning; (ii) summoning of natural creatures, and possibly (iii) summoning creatures from particular planes. -one problem is that bard is confirmed as a leader role. a leader's principal responsibility is party buffing and/or healing. so, even if the bard has some illusion spells, they will not comprise a majority of his focus. therefore, this leaves open the possibility for a class that is principally focused on illusions, which, imho, will more commonly be controller type spells. -Totally -Absolutely agree.
#15 daen Aug 22, 2008 14:08:20	Whatever they do, I hope the Illusionist class is what it should be. By this I mean that I hope the Illusionist can actually make illusions that fool people, and can be used recreationaly.
#16 Luis_Carlos Aug 22, 2008 14:55:57	I don´t want illusionism and necromancy with the same power souce. Illusionism is ...fey, and the feywild is the opposite of the shadowfall. In the old D&D Illusinis and necromancy were opposite schools. * Now D&D is more.....videogame and miniature game, and the old magic of illusionism was more...creative, more strory-telling. A weak spell with art and trick could deceived a strong but stupy enemy. The new magic is..... like a gun of laser rays. The new illusionist class perhaps will be called "beguiller".