For one thing, it seems to be a far more disorganized and savage world. Of the classes in PHB1, the majority learned their craft in a formalized setting be it a war school, a wizard's tower, a thieves' guild, etc. Rangers and Warlocks are a bit more wild, but for the most part the classes of PHB1 are very civilized.
On the other hand, look at the PHB2 classes. Aside from the Primal classes, the two Divine classes are a lone prophet directly in contact with his god, and a rogue priest who executes his god's will no matter what his church says on the matter. The two Arcane classes get their power from an inborn, nearly uncontrollable source or the intuitive magic of music and song. Only the Avenger could be construed to be a part of an organization, and he's explicitly stated to be a rogue element acting outside it.
Even the races seem to fit this. We have two wild shapeshifters, a race of giant rockmen from the mountains, hidden tricksters of the Feywild, the product of obscure crossing between humans and barbaric orcs, and...well, Devas. Not too sure about them yet but they could very well fit the pattern. PHB1 races, on the other hand, are all either heirs to lost empires or its subjects.
I would say that the PHB2 setting is definitely in a more wild and untamed area than PHB1. It could be interesting to play up the disconnect, with the classes and races of one rarely crossing over.
And as a further note, what does this mean about the implied setting of future PHBs? PHB3, for example, will have monks, probably other ki classes. Could it be an Oriental Adventures Lite?
Bel
Regarding the Arcane classes, the sorcerer can come from any wake of life, thanks to the gifts of wild or dragon magic. Even more so the bard, as one bard might be a valiant minstrel (Virtue of Valour) from a chivalric society, a learned sage from a city state republic (Virtue of Cunning) as well a tribal storyteller or rememberer (Virtue of Cunning) or a battle-singer from the same tribe (Virtue of Valour)...
Regarding the Divine classes, both the Invoker and the Avenger, as far as I gathered, are easily integrated in the POL. The Invoker for the reasons stated above, as a member of this class can indeed leave the POL behind to meditate in solitude, whereas the Temple/sect an Avenger received his/her training can become a hidden refuge for the players in a remote corner.
Cheers!
Captn M.
On the other hand, look at the PHB2 classes. Aside from the Primal classes, the two Divine classes are a lone prophet directly in contact with his god, and a rogue priest who executes his god's will no matter what his church says on the matter. The two Arcane classes get their power from an inborn, nearly uncontrollable source or the intuitive magic of music and song. Only the Avenger could be construed to be a part of an organization, and he's explicitly stated to be a rogue element acting outside it.
Well we haven't actually seen the fluff for the Invoker, but if they're a direct agent of a god, chances are that they're probably one of the highest ranking members of their faith (see other avatars and "chosen ones" like Krishna, Jesus, the Dalai Lama, Muhammed, Moses, the Pope).
Even if they aren't part of any organization, they would likely have some interest in who was worshipping their deity and what they were doing. This draws them to civilizations where their deity is worshiped.
Regarding the Avenger, it's not explicitly stated to be a rogue element. They're the assassins of their deity or faith, and are just as much a part of an existing hierarchy as anyone else (like Paladins and Clerics).
Of course, members of both classes are not likely to be cooped up in a temple all day. No more than a Paladin or Cleric. Or any more than a Wizard is going to stay inside studying, or a Warlord at a camp training. They're all adventurers, and are generally expected to go where they want when they want, for their own reasons.
The Sorcerer was originally intended to be a primal class (suggested in the Characters and Classes preview book). They were always planning on adding it and the Bard, and since they're pretty much done with arcane, it might as well be now, when you have another arcane class to release it with.
Even the races seem to fit this. We have two wild shapeshifters, a race of giant rockmen from the mountains, hidden tricksters of the Feywild, the product of obscure crossing between humans and barbaric orcs, and...well, Devas. Not too sure about them yet but they could very well fit the pattern. PHB1 races, on the other hand, are all either heirs to lost empires or its subjects.
Gnomes are civilized, even if they don't have a thing for metallurgy and engineering. Moreso perhaps than Elves.
Devas seem to be no less civilized than Tieflings.
Half-orcs, Goliaths, and Shifters can't be any worse than Elves or to an extent, Dragonborn.
I would say that the PHB2 setting is definitely in a more wild and untamed area than PHB1. It could be interesting to play up the disconnect, with the classes and races of one rarely crossing over.
And as a further note, what does this mean about the implied setting of future PHBs? PHB3, for example, will have monks, probably other ki classes. Could it be an Oriental Adventures Lite?
It's all the same world. The PHBI and PHBII don't take place in different worlds. They're both part of the POL setting, but it's obvious that if they were going to offer classes like Barbarian, Druid, Warden, and Shaman, that they needed a couple more races inclined towards those classes both mechanically and in terms of flavor. Also, given the close associations between Bards and Gnomes, how can you not pair them together in a book? Same for the much awaited Deva (as a counterpart to the Tiefling) and the Divine classes?
Yeah, when we see the Ki, Shadow, and Psionic classes, I would very much expect to see races that make good options for those classes. Shadar Kai, Drow, Gith, Elan, Dromites, and the like. I don't think there will be any theme that's evocative of a particular culture though.
The Sorcerer was originally intended to be a primal class (suggested in the Characters and Classes preview book). They were always planning on adding it and the Bard, and since they're pretty much done with arcane, it might as well be now, when you have another arcane class to release it with.
No it wasn't. Races and Classes has the Sorcerer as someone who can barely control the magical power within them. There is nothing there that suggests primal just wild magic(which is present in the final build). In fact the earliest indications of the sorcerer's power source had it as arcane(a comment about it being the same power source and role as the wizard).Indeed, the PH2 does give us a more "wild" feel for the "Points of Light" conceit than the PHB did. It is the same world, with all the same characters, but from a different point of view.
The PHB1 race represent people that live and learned their trade in a point of light... the PHB2 race represent people that live and learned their trade outside of it, in the darkness?
Not necessarily. The stereotypical ranger is an 'uncivilized' sort, and there's nothing at all about the non-primal PHB2 classes that leads me to think the stereotypical one is some 'fringer'.
Think of much of older D&D editions descriptions of elven forest cities. Highly civilized but still with a close tie to nature. Even the barbarian could find a spot in this. Just because he can go into a battle rage doesn't mean he's unintelligent and uncivilized when not in battle (think dwarven battleragers).
Civilized lands don't have to be filled with stone and brick cities with cobblestone streets.
Well we haven't actually seen the fluff for the Invoker
We haven't?
It seems to me we got just as much as we got for the rest of the previews.
I think people are thinking too narrowly about primal classes and the primal power source. Just because a culture has a tie to spirits and nature doesn't mean they aren't "civilized".
Think of much of older D&D editions descriptions of elven forest cities. Highly civilized but still with a close tie to nature. Even the barbarian could find a spot in this. Just because he can go into a battle rage doesn't mean he's unintelligent and uncivilized when not in battle (think dwarven battleragers).
Civilized lands don't have to be filled with stone and brick cities with cobblestone streets.
True. Of course, every last one of 'em could just be from a regular city, too. Cities are, of course, the natural habitat of humanoids.
You're obviously correct, R, but I wonder if he's not thinking of that "Primal Blaster" picture. Looking back, that picture really does seem to fit the Sorcerer we've seen. Perhaps there was a connection at one point or another? Or perhaps "Primal Blaster" is the name of an Arcane-Primal hybrid Paragon Path?
Just food for thought. Like sardines.
You're obviously correct, R, but I wonder if he's not thinking of that "Primal Blaster" picture. Looking back, that picture really does seem to fit the Sorcerer we've seen. Perhaps there was a connection at one point or another? Or perhaps "Primal Blaster" is the name of an Arcane-Primal hybrid Paragon Path?
Just food for thought. Like sardines.
.....The primal blaster is an archer. The current sorcerer can't even use bows without taking a feat. If the primal blaster is anything it is a primal PP for the ranger.
In review, I'm not sure I got my original point across very well. I was kinda rambling a bit. Perhaps to clarify a bit, I see both happening in the same world, just slightly different parts. If PHB1 is Rome, for example, PHB 2 would be the outlying "barbarian" areas, such as that occupied by the Celts or Germanic tribes. It's connected and probably has a lot of contact, but has a distinctly different cultural flavor.
PHB1 isn't Rome, it's the dark age after Rome has collapsed.
.....The primal blaster is an archer. The current sorcerer can't even use bows without taking a feat. If the primal blaster is anything it is a primal PP for the ranger.
...Nevermind; I've apparently caught the retardation virus. I didn't bother to actually check wtf I was talking about beforehand, and ended up imagining an entirely different picture, one which was incidentally labeled (now that I'm actually looking at it) "Dragonborn Sorcerer". Embarassment.
[/foolishness]
Cunning Bards are probably the only exception, but being the Bard a wanderer type, it however implies no formality and organization.
Sorcerers are, of the Arcane heroes, the ones that less require any form of education, so they fit this scheme well.
Avengers and Invokers are presented as being the product of isolated shrines and monasteries, sometimes not even formally recognized, so one may assume that they're more common outside the true Points of Light than Paladins and Clerics.
And Primal characters, well, of course they're from the wild, with all the implications.
I don't think this was a conscious choice, but a byproduct. And there's no true cultural difference, but simply geographical difference: with the possible exception of the Ranger (which could be however interpreted as a civilized man trained to venture in the wild), PHb1 classes are all products of civilized lands, while PHb2, with the possible exception of some Bards, are all products of borderlands or wilderness (nodding to Nautilus who got it above).
EDIT: I failed to support the opinion that this is an unconscious byproduct. To represent this, I have to remind that every PHb1 class could also represent borderlands, wild, and/or self-taught heroes. And it's easy.
Clerics and Paladins could be coming from some isolated monastery just as Invokers and Avengers, and/or be wandering just like Bards.
Fighters and very well every martial character could simply be an exemplary skillful member of any warrior tribe and be as self-taught as a sorcerer or barbarian.
Wizards could necessitate prolonged hermitage in the outskirts of civilization to research their magic, just as Warlocks.
And then on the other hand all PHb2 classes could be organized. Primal classes could be formalized in very civilized but maybe feyish cultures, with Wardens being the standard soldiers of elite armies alongside Barbarians, Shamans and Druids. Bards could be the most recent class, born of the top of civilization and education. Sorcererous magic could just be the new incarnation of magic schools and thus be organized and taught. And Avengers and Invokers could be, respectively, the Paladin and Cleric for some churches and/or be very at ease inside a normal and formal church hierarchy.
FINAL EDIT: To clear out my opinion, I think that it's needless symmetry to label this way the two books, but it may also be, if not taken strictly, a good approximation that may help out players and DMs alike. I just wanted to state that nothing should prevent players or DMs to create characters such as wild-themed rogues, military wardens, urban shamans (better if represented as Jamaican mafia leaders :D), and so on.