So, yeah, Assassins are a Shadow Class. Which means Shadow won't go the way of Ki. Also, they're not going to be as similar to rogues as some people believe.
I think that's it, for now.
dont like exclusives.....
Anyway, back to the Assassin. Hoping to see some dex based multi attack powers in there
I'm never going to buy into DDI, and now I don't get the Shadow Striker.
Correction: Now you're not going to get "a shadow striker". It's blind & arrogant assumption to think that the Assassin will the be only one. It's flat out stupid actually.
I also don't get this vehement dislike people have with regards to DDI subscribers actually getting something special for their money. I'm not a subscriber myself, but someone in my gaming-group is and so I've seen pretty much everything they've gotten thus far.... and I don't feel like I'm missing out an iota for not having my own personal account.
Until this exclusive content came about, I hardly saw anything worth the money and couldn't imagine why people would pay. Now they finally get their moneys worth. I say good for them.
If you people want it, subscribe. It's that simple. B*tching about it like a bunch of spoiled children is hardly constructive. Buy a years subscription. Wait for the content and buy a months worth. Do something other than complain, because it's quite clear that you're not getting the content unless you pay for DDI.
Back on topic, slightly at any rate, I look forward to the release. My group splits the cost of the aforementioned account to spread the cost of the yearly subscription. It's win-win and the Assassin sounds like it'll be fun.
~Bizkit
I really, really hate this "DDI-Only" crap. I don't mind if it's playtests, early previews, new powers for old classes, etc. But putting an entire class behind a paywall is ridiculous. I'm never going to buy into DDI, and now I don't get the Shadow Striker.
And if you never bought PH2, you wouldn't have the Druid, or the Bard, or the Invoker, or the Barbarian, etc.*
(*This sentiment could be said about any D&D product, except for, ironically, D&DI, which gives access to everything.)
You know what I find "ridiculous", Stogoe? That you refuse to pay for a D&D product and then complain about not having access to its content. Fact is that a year's subscription to D&DI is cheaper than a pair of D&D hardcovers, and gives you significantly more content than a pair of hardcovers.
I really, really hate this "whining-about-what's-in-a-product-you-refuse-to-buy" crap.
Correction: Now you're not going to get "a shadow striker". It's blind & arrogant assumption to think that the Assassin will the be only one. It's flat out stupid actually.
I also don't get this vehement dislike people have with regards to DDI subscribers actually getting something special for their money. I'm not a subscriber myself, but someone in my gaming-group is and so I've seen pretty much everything they've gotten thus far.... and I don't feel like I'm missing out an iota for not having my own personal account.
Until this exclusive content came about, I hardly saw anything worth the money and couldn't imagine why people would pay. Now they finally get their moneys worth. I say good for them.
If you people want it, subscribe. It's that simple. B*tching about it like a bunch of spoiled children is hardly constructive. Buy a years subscription. Wait for the content and buy a months worth. Do something other than complain, because it's quite clear that you're not getting the content unless you pay for DDI.
Back on topic, slightly at any rate, I look forward to the release. My group splits the cost of the aforementioned account to spread the cost of the yearly subscription. It's win-win and the Assassin sounds like it'll be fun.
~Bizkit
You seem like you're on the level. Truth is, I'm not sure any gaming group needs more than one subscription, but that's not to suggest that I don't think it's worth it.
You say that you don't feel like you're missing out on D&DI. Do you mind if I ask: Would you feel like you're missing out if you didn't have access to your friend's subscription? I have a subscription, and I've been extremely happy with it since the beginning, and growing happier with it every time WotC improves the features available to subscribers. I daresay that you haven't seen the best parts, if you only see what your friend prints off for the group.
I really, really hate this "DDI-Only" crap. I don't mind if it's playtests, early previews, new powers for old classes, etc. But putting an entire class behind a paywall is ridiculous. I'm never going to buy into DDI, and now I don't get the Shadow Striker.
If you are not willing to pay for the product (DDI) there is no reason why you should have access to the content. You are not entitled to anything. Those who are shelling out money every month are; they are entitled to a quality product, one that is not necessarily available to everyone else, especially those who are not willing out to shell out the same cash.
To get all the same on my own? I was iffy. It may not be a waste, but it's a personal opinion to say that I simply wasn't enticed. Now that there are going to be races & classes only available and supported through DDI it's piqued my interest all the more.
This is a digression though.
I look forward to the Assassin, especially with the talk of truly making "shadow magic" a part of the class. I'm expecting to see a dex/con build because of the Rev stats, and assume the other could be dex/wis of dex/int. Ought to be fun to play with.
~Bizkit
I really, really hate this "DDI-Only" crap. I don't mind if it's playtests, early previews, new powers for old classes, etc. But putting an entire class behind a paywall is ridiculous. I'm never going to buy into DDI, and now I don't get the Shadow Striker.
Are you serious?
I really, really hate this "DDI-Only" crap. I don't mind if it's playtests, early previews, new powers for old classes, etc. But putting an entire class behind a paywall is ridiculous. I'm never going to buy into DDI, and now I don't get the Shadow Striker.
I WAS AT THE CAR DEALERSHIP EARLIER AND THEY REFUSED TO GIVE ME A SUV FOR FREE THIS IS RIDICULOUS THAT I HAVE TO PAY THEM OR I DON'T GET A CAR.
I really, really hate this "DDI-Only" crap. I don't mind if it's playtests, early previews, new powers for old classes, etc. But putting an entire class behind a paywall is ridiculous. I'm never going to buy into DDI, and now I don't get the Shadow Striker.
Just buy the hardcover dragon magazine compilation...
I just hope the class isn't a month behind on the October update. They rushed the monk into the next update, just hoping they do the same for the Assassin.
I don't think Playtests should be a DDI thing. I think that's more or less an advertisement for the actual game, not something that should be lauded as Exclusive Content.
Exclusive Content should be stuff like Ecology articles, Fey Features, or what have you. Stuff that is actually not going to appear in hardback form at some point. (or stuff such as the Revenant that can be exclusive too) or Niche Content that really doesn't fit well into any other release type.
As for the Assassin class, I'll believe it when I see it. But I bet it's the first class I ban. Just because it's a freakin Rogue and nothing else.
Just buy the hardcover dragon magazine compilation...
It won't be in the annual. They make a point of saying that.
My only complaint is that the DDi exclusive emblem needs to be flashier. More eye-catching. Something.
I hope we get the shadowdancer with that.
Me too! My pc was formerly a 2e shadow mage. 3e did nothing for me. At least in 4e I've been able to reflavour a warlock with ghost of eventide PP but I want my shadow magic back dammit! I was gutted that PHB3 has no shadow so this assassin stuff could throw me a bone and a shadowdancer PP could fit nicely.
The article on it says it's very much different from the rogue or any other class that's currently out. Bottom line is, you know dragon is there, it's super cheap, you knew from the start there would be stuff in there you couldn't access if you don't subscribe. If there's something in there you REALLY want you can pay for a single month and get everything that has been in it since the beginning up to that point. There's no reason to complain.
Personally I think they are trying too hard there, and falling right back into 3e Trap 101, where because you have a Job Title you obviously you must be a different class. What about the Rogue doesn't cover Assassin already? (especially with the corresponding paragon path, and epic destiny)
Why not do something you know.. smart and put the Hexblade in as the Shadowstriker? Or... you know the Shadowdancer. Something that doesn't already exist in the game.
Personally I think they are trying too hard there, and falling right back into 3e Trap 101, where because you have a Job Title you obviously you must be a different class. What about the Rogue doesn't cover Assassin already? (especially with the corresponding paragon path, and epic destiny)
The part where the Rogue doesn't do anything magical at all? The Assassin is repeatedly stated in the article to wield shadow magic. Not very Roguey.
I just figured I'd put the idea out there though, what if Shadowdancer is just a PP for the Assassin? A lot of people have been talking about it like it is a core class in itself but really they have never been a core class before, why start now?
I really, really hate this "DDI-Only" crap. I don't mind if it's playtests, early previews, new powers for old classes, etc. But putting an entire class behind a paywall is ridiculous. I'm never going to buy into DDI, and now I don't get the Shadow Striker.
Honestly? I kind of agree with you, and I have DDI.
I'm not sure what it is, but the existence of "Members Only" information irks me.
Extra services and tools? Sure. Sneak peaks? Of course! Fundamental knowledge? NO!
Not everyone has access to that online content. Online content should be a boon, not a requirement. I understand that the online only content is extra features to begin with, but it somehow crosses a line in my mind.
Extra feats, items, and paragon paths I'll endure. It bugs me but it isn't fundamental to the game. But races and classes are an essential piece of the pie! That's an important but subtle distinction.
I've been trying to say this for nearly 45 minutes now, and I can't get the words out. I'll ponder it and come back later, but the idea of fundamental "Members Only" content just frustrates me to no end. Here's some of the points I have in my head.
> Not everyone has access to the internet
> Not everyone has a computer
> Friends can borrow books, and read them. Borrowing computers? Notsomuch.
> Computers require special consideration to operate in a gaming location.
>> Power
>> Table space
>> Internet access (again)
>> Additionally, they serve as a distraction
> Computerized content (CharBuilder) is useful, but not necessary, just the way I like it.
Feel free to attack me, but I just wanted to get my thoughts out.
[edit]Cpt_Micha EPIC NINJAd me
Exclusive Content should be stuff like Ecology articles, Fey Features, or what have you. Stuff that is actually not going to appear in hardback form at some point. (or stuff such as the Revenant that can be exclusive too) or Niche Content that really doesn't fit well into any other release type.
YES.
Pile up my bonus features! Pile on the fluff and interesting ideas. Just don't make me be a member to learn all the fundamental material.
The part where the Rogue doesn't do anything magical at all? The Assassin is repeatedly stated in the article to wield shadow magic. Not very Roguey.
And turning invisible isn't overtly magical? Seriously?
Have you seen the Rogue's higher level powers? Or hell his level 6 reality defying utilities?
And turning invisible isn't overtly magical? Seriously?
He gains the status of "invisible." This does not mean the Rogue is invisible in the literal sense.
He gains the status of "invisible." This does not mean the Rogue is invisible in the literal sense.
Yeah still not buying it. Martial isn't Mundane.
Yeah still not buying it.
You don't need to. That's how it is.
And turning invisible isn't overtly magical? Seriously?
Have you seen the Rogue's higher level powers? Or hell his level 6 reality defying utilities?
Ideally, those powers would work in anti-magic field, while Assassin's wouldn't.
A fact about martial characters is that no magical effect should deny their abilities. And if done right (or simply just mastered right), a Rogue's invisibility wouldn't be pierced by a magical "see invisibility" effect, since it's actually just a damned good hiding.
Ideally (again), no effect besides a total memory loss could remove powers from a martial character's repertoire, and a total memory loss would screw up any character anyway. (And chances are that the martial powers would still be there, since nothing could "cancel" the training done to achieve them).
Other random-order points...
Yes, I do think it's safe to assume we'll see a Shadow Dancer PP for the Assassin (it's just plainly logic, I could bet big money on it), and yes, I'm now positive that it (the Assassin) will play and feel differently. As I said, the fact that they confirmed that with that degree of confidence and without even providing us an example power or other kind of proof, means to me that they did a really good job with it.
Ideally, those powers would work in anti-magic field, while Assassin's wouldn't.
Anti-Magic Fields are a thing of the past, so that issue is largely moot.
I do agree that Martial Isn't Mundane. However, even as flexible as it is, I can't imagine a Martial class going insubstantial or phasing or teleporting, things I tend to associate with the Shadow class (which, admittedly, may be entirely wrong-headed on my part).
However, even as flexible as it is, I can't imagine a Martial class going insubstantial or phasing or teleporting, things I tend to associate with the Shadow class (which, admittedly, may be entirely wrong-headed on my part).
QFT.
QFT.
Seconded.
Insubstantial, Phasing and Teleport also are the things that mark Monks as psionic and not martial. With those effects being at least Paragon level anyway.
Assassins will supposedly get those effects, since (early?) Heroic levels; and I'm ok with it.
Honestly? I kind of agree with you, and I have DDI.
I'm not sure what it is, but the existence of "Members Only" information irks me.
Extra services and tools? Sure. Sneak peaks? Of course! Fundamental knowledge? NO!
Not everyone has access to that online content. Online content should be a boon, not a requirement. I understand that the online only content is extra features to begin with, but it somehow crosses a line in my mind.
Extra feats, items, and paragon paths I'll endure. It bugs me but it isn't fundamental to the game. But races and classes are an essential piece of the pie! That's an important but subtle distinction.
How is the Assassin a fundamental class? I get sick of this entitlement mentality! Gee I know people who do not own cars and have jobs! How unfair! Maybe because I do I should give them mine or maybe they should just be given a car by some car company? Sorry to rant.
I pay for DDI because I think for the little money it is a great value. I play with people who do not get it and they do not cry about it. I know people who do not own PHB2 or Martial Power or Arcane Power, the list goes on and on, is it unfair to them? This is exclusive content unless you own the book, or surprise, DDI.
In my mind the fundamental classes and races are found in the PHB and that's it. Between the PHB, the DM Guide, and the MM you have all you need to play.
Personally I think they are trying too hard there, and falling right back into 3e Trap 101, where because you have a Job Title you obviously you must be a different class. What about the Rogue doesn't cover Assassin already? (especially with the corresponding paragon path, and epic destiny)
Why not do something you know.. smart and put the Hexblade in as the Shadowstriker? Or... you know the Shadowdancer. Something that doesn't already exist in the game.
...given that everything we've heard about the Assassin thus far seems to draw far more on the Shadowdancer than actual previous Assassin classes, I'd say your concerns have already been addressed. It sounds like it will be pretty distinct - as distinct as you are asking for, if the concept of 'Shadowdancer' is acceptable to you. If the name is the only problem you have with the class, just have it called Shadowdancer in your game, instead.
Just buy the hardcover dragon magazine compilation...
Unfortunately they have already stated in the same article that the OP pointed to that Revenant and Assassin, along with other exclusive DDI content will not appear in the hardcover compilation or any other acessory/suppliment release though they may get mention via monster/villain in an adventure module, or novel.
As far as other posters complaining about content that is exclusive to DDI only, I would like to point out that WotC did state when they began the subscription that they Would have exclusive content that will not be reprinted in other books, available only through the DDI Subscription, they have followed through on their word to provide this.
That said; and to put this bit more on topic again, I eagerly await the Assassin Class as I am sure that I will see DM templates for me to apply to monsters in order to give them a class too.
How is the Assassin a fundamental class? I get sick of this entitlement mentality! Gee I know people who do not own cars and have jobs! How unfair! Maybe because I do I should give them mine or maybe they should just be given a car by some car company? Sorry to rant.
I pay for DDI because I think for the little money it is a great value. I play with people who do not get it and they do not cry about it. I know people who do not own PHB2 or Martial Power or Arcane Power, the list goes on and on, is it unfair to them? This is exclusive content unless you own the book, or surprise, DDI.
In my mind the fundamental classes and races are found in the PHB and that's it. Between the PHB, the DM Guid, and the MM you have all you need to play.
Not saying you are wrong, I'm just sharing my opinion.
To me, memberships should be full of extra options, insider secrets, sneak peeks, cool art galleries, and other bonus stuff. I just don't feel you should have to be a member to see the "basic" info for anything, especially races and classes. Paragon paths, EDs, extra options, feats, and all that stuff is fine by me.
I'm just saying that I feel the races and classes should all be easily accessible, and printed in books.
Regarding bolded part above
That actually wasn't what I was implying. Many ordinary, perfectly capable, and financially willing people can and do run into problems attempting to use computer equipment (especially the internet) for things like DnD.
I had a friend in high school that couldn't get internet because of some retarted zoning thing. He lived in Company A's service area, but was on the side of a river controlled by Company B. Company A didn't want to run a line under/around/over the river, so the five or six houses over there couldn't get cable TV or internet. Company A also wouldn't sell the rights to Company B for some stupid reason.
I, personally, am stuck with minimal internet at home, because cable companies aren't willing to run high-speed internet out to the country. I'm stuck using the internet at school, and using broadband at home. Limit of 5GB per month, which is nearly useless for anything but surfing and research.
The hobby shop I visit on the weekends has a gaming area, but the building is very old and there are no plugs in the back room. Laptop users would have to run an extension cord to the front of the store to get electricity.
That actually wasn't what I was implying. Many ordinary, perfectly capable, and financially willing people can and do run into problems attempting to use computer equipment (especially the internet) for things like DnD.
I had a friend in high school that couldn't get internet because of some retarted zoning thing. He lived in Company A's service area, but was on the side of a river controlled by Company B. Company A didn't want to run a line under/around/over the river, so the five or six houses over there couldn't get cable TV or internet. Company A also wouldn't sell the rights to Company B for some stupid reason.
I, personally, am stuck with minimal internet at home, because cable companies aren't willing to run high-speed internet out to the country. I'm stuck using the internet at school, and using broadband at home. Limit of 5GB per month, which is nearly useless for anything but surfing and research.
The hobby shop I visit on the weekends has a gaming area, but the building is very old and there are no plugs in the back room. Laptop users would have to run an extension cord to the front of the store to get electricity.
I'll be interested to see what they do with this. I'm picturing something similar to Avengers, but with more of a stealthy/shadowy feel.
Ideas off the top of my head:
Feats/powers that let them move silently, or to render enemies helpless for a turn.
Poisons that weaken an enemy or otherwise generate status effects.
Teleportation and shadow-walking effects
perhaps some absurd effects off a critical hit, or ways to get crits more often (Fire Emblem Assassins anyone?)
Not saying you are wrong, I'm just sharing my opinion.
To me, memberships should be full of extra options, insider secrets, sneak peeks, cool art galleries, and other bonus stuff. I just don't feel you should have to be a member to see the "basic" info for anything, especially races and classes. Paragon paths, EDs, extra options, feats, and all that stuff is fine by me.
I'm just saying that I feel the races and classes should all be easily accessible, and printed in books.Regarding bolded part above
That actually wasn't what I was implying. Many ordinary, perfectly capable, and financially willing people can and do run into problems attempting to use computer equipment (especially the internet) for things like DnD.
I had a friend in high school that couldn't get internet because of some retarted zoning thing. He lived in Company A's service area, but was on the side of a river controlled by Company B. Company A didn't want to run a line under/around/over the river, so the five or six houses over there couldn't get cable TV or internet. Company A also wouldn't sell the rights to Company B for some stupid reason.
I, personally, am stuck with minimal internet at home, because cable companies aren't willing to run high-speed internet out to the country. I'm stuck using the internet at school, and using broadband at home. Limit of 5GB per month, which is nearly useless for anything but surfing and research.
The hobby shop I visit on the weekends has a gaming area, but the building is very old and there are no plugs in the back room. Laptop users would have to run an extension cord to the front of the store to get electricity.
That being said, I'm somewhat disappointed that the exclusives won't eventually make an appearance in a D&D hardcover. I was kinda hoping they wouldn't take the term 'exclusive' so seriously ;). I enjoy Dragon/Dungeon immensely but I'm no fan of the digital format. I much prefer hardcover and miss the print mags.
Also, once Insider has a few other exclusives under its belt, the material has served it's purpose (i.e. encouraging new subscribers). I think it should eventually be made available in a D&D hardcover. In my humble opinion, Dragon/Dungeon is good stuff, be proud of it, show it off once in a while.
Encourage new subscribers. Once that's done, put this stuff in hardover; get it out there. Hiding it behind a virtual wall only insures that the material will continue to be overlooked. Again I say, Dragon/Dungeon is good stuff, be proud of it.
Okay, if I haven't made my point by now, I'm not gonna. Thanks for listening ;).
DragonWrath I do see where you are coming from to that point. I hope you did not take me as too snarky, I did not mean to come off that way.Happy gaming!
No problem. ;)
I run into this sort of thing all the time. It's especially frustrating, since I'm a computer type of person, so everyone assumes I think computers are the Best Thing Ever.
Don't get me wrong, PCs have their place, and are great tools, but I don't think using a computer Just Because It Can Be Done is the right decision. There needs to be a reason for it, just like any other tool.
It'll be in Dragon Magazine in September. Two more whole months of waiting....
Patience will be rewarded.
I hate the exclusive to ddi stuff.
I spend the money on spat books, Id rather see it there, dont always have money on hand for the ddi stuff.
didnt always have money for the dragon mags either...
I'm of the philosophical position that classes should never be exclusive content. Exclusive previews? Absolutely. Playtests? Just fine. Finished classes that only appear in digital subscriptions format? No.
In 3E there were core base classes (in the PHB), non-core base classes (in other supplements), and prestige classes (everywhere). In 4E, there are supposed to [i]only[i] be core base classes. Making core material unavailable in hard cover isn't something I, or a lot of other people, like.
It has almost nothing to do with paying for it, and everything to do with format of what is being paid for. They could probably sell 50% more copies of the Dragon annual if they simply made one DDI core class a year, and then also printed in in the Dragon annual. Keeping it as purely digital content (and subscription based at that) is a bad marketing idea.
If you are not willing to pay for the product (DDI) there is no reason why you should have access to the content. You are not entitled to anything. Those who are shelling out money every month are; they are entitled to a quality product, one that is not necessarily available to everyone else, especially those who are not willing out to shell out the same cash.
He's saying that he'd prefer full on classes be published in books that he can buy, not on DDI. I think that's a perfectly valid point of view. A player with DDI can't bring the Assassin to the table of a DM without DDI unless they print the whole thing off (wasteful) or 'share subscriptions' which I don't think Wizards wants. On the other hand, the player could just bring the book for the DM to peruse and say 'yes/no' to.
However, now that we're here, you are going to have to buy DDI to get the Assassin. Sorry that bugs you, but thems the rules.
Yours,
Lord Dreadman
PS: Honestly, the real solution is not DDI. The real solution is more PHBs every year, but that's just my opinion.
- Can come out quicker and get additional content quicker (don't need a whole book).
- More space in books for other things. So in this case, another class in a book. (This is my biggest thing in favour of it. I get even more content then I would with just getting stuff in books since I get the stuff in DDI and I get something else in the books. Where as if just the books I would just get one thing).
- Easier to Errata/Use the Errata since it is completely digital so will be automatically updated as it comes out.
- Even more bang for my buck.
I am looking forward to it a lot. Not just since I like Assassin concepts, and the classes so far haven't disappoint. But also will give us an idea for future Shadow classes.
Rather than more exclusive races and classes, I can imagine exclusive content in the form of 'one-shot' campaign settings. Sorta like how Dark Sun was updated to 3.5 in Dragon #319 and Dungeon #110. Maybe something we haven't heard of in a while, long out-of-print? How about the 'Known World' (a.k.a. Mystara in 2nd edition)?
Some rambling thoughts on the nature of Insider exclusives ;).
- They'll never release it in a format I'm willing to pay for
- That it's an entire, fully-formed class that's online only.
I'm okay with not paying for most of the Dragon material - I don't want any of it, for the most part. There's a ton of cheese in Dragon, and a lot of it stinks. But something doesn't sit right with me about a whole class in Dragon, purposefully never included in the hardcover Best Of compilation. Even the Ninja in 3.5 got printed in a book. Also, you could actually buy an individual issue of the magazine. Never gonna happen now that they've pulled all pdf sales, but I held out hope for some time that they'd offer individual issues of Dragon for sale.
Making races and classes exclusive too often risks alienating people. The idea is of course, to draw new people in. Even a race I would consider a 'niche', like the Revenant faces this hurdle.
Rather than more exclusive races and classes, I can imagine exclusive content in the form of 'one-shot' campaign settings. Sorta like how Dark Sun was updated to 3.5 in Dragon #319 and Dungeon #110. Maybe something we haven't heard of in a while, long out-of-print? How about the 'Known World' (a.k.a. Mystara in 2nd edition)?
Some rambling thoughts on the nature of Insider exclusives ;).
*Drools* I want DDI-exclusive one-shot campaign settings as well as races and classes. I am still wishing that we have a through DDI community-built setting, we could get monthly discussions and new crunch/fluff, etc. that can be voted on and at the end of it all a complete PDF (as well as Character Builder, Compendium, etc.) setting.
Also, you could actually buy an individual issue of the magazine. Never gonna happen now that they've pulled all pdf sales, but I held out hope for some time that they'd offer individual issues of Dragon for sale.
You can sign-up for a single month of Insider. I forget the current price but its reasonable. Currently, this lets you download a PDF of not only the current issue but all the 'back' issues as well (a real bargin at this point ;)). This is certain to change (eventually) but who knows when?
If you do sign-up for a single month, don't forget to have auto-renewal canceled (or you'll automatically be charged again the next month).
You can sign-up for a single month of Insider. I forget the current price but its reasonable. Currently, this lets you download a PDF of not only the current issue but all the 'back' issues as well (a real bargin at this point ;)). This is certain to change (eventually) but who knows when?
If you do sign-up for a single month, don't forget to have auto-renewal canceled (or you'll automatically be charged again the next month).
As well as being able to download a up-to-date Character Builder (and most likely Monster Builder too when it is released).
let me reiterate
I hate the exclusive to ddi stuff.
I spend the money on spat books, Id rather see it there, dont always have money on hand for the ddi stuff.
didnt always have money for the dragon mags either...
I own so far every book that has player resources in it as well as Manual of the Planes (that's just good readin'!). I also have a DDi subscription.
Does that make me feel entitled to exclusive content? Honestly? Yes, it does. It's money I'm paying to them. If all that content was going to eventually enter a book that I'm already likely to buy, well then why would I bother with the DDi subscription? Getting something early isn't a good enough answer. My main reason for getting DDi was for the exclusives. Now that we are finally getting exclusives that are more meaty than just exclusive feats and powers here and there, well all the better.
Besides, is it really so painful for you to buy a months subscription if something you want is coming out that month, printing it off at home and then canceling your subscription?!
let me reiterate
I hate the exclusive to ddi stuff.
I spend the money on spat books, Id rather see it there, dont always have money on hand for the ddi stuff.
didnt always have money for the dragon mags either...
Wait .... so, you have money to buy splat books - maybe not when they come out, but eventually. Yet you don't have money to buy the much cheaper one month subscription to DDi that allows you to get every single issue of Dragon up to that point, every issue of Dungeon, Character Builder with all the current updates, and all the exclusives up to that point in time, at any point in time?
Something don't add up here ...
The class and race are exclusive so you have to pay to get them just as you would have to pay to get anything else such as the barbarian(phb2 exclusive) or orcus(mm exclusive) or extra wizard powers(arcane power exclusive).
The class and race are optional(bonus) content. You don't need them to play the game.(someone argues you don't need any class to play, someone else argues you don't even need books to play, circle of life, etc.)
That said, I wouldn't give a goblin's *** if they later showed up in print product. I don't think that I'm soley entitled to have this class and race just because I have insider.
But the fact is whinning about something you don't have because you refuse to pay for it is self entitlement at its worse.:rolleye2:
I really, really hate this "DDI-Only" crap. I don't mind if it's playtests, early previews, new powers for old classes, etc. But putting an entire class behind a paywall is ridiculous. I'm never going to buy into DDI, and now I don't get the Shadow Striker.
Totally! I'm always so ****** when WotC puts those hard, stiff things around their pages, and then try to make me pay for it.
let me reiterate
I hate the exclusive to ddi stuff.
I spend the money on spat books, Id rather see it there, dont always have money on hand for the ddi stuff.
didnt always have money for the dragon mags either...
Celtic Mutt already pointed this out, but if money is the issue, you would do a lot better by purchasing a year's subscription to D&DI for the compendium, than by buying each hardcover. (In the case of the Power series, which are almost all crunch, literally 95% of the book's content appears in the compendium.) Obviously internet access isn't the problem, because you seem to post here often enough.
Of course, buying the published Dragon book that will come out soon could work to.
It could ... except for the part where the editorial and several posts in this thread have pointed out the exclusive stuff won't be in the Dragon Annual hardcover. ;)
Jeez, guys, I understand that if I don't pay, I don't get it. I'm complaining that:
- They'll never release it in a format I'm willing to pay for
- That it's an entire, fully-formed class that's online only.
I'm okay with not paying for most of the Dragon material - I don't want any of it, for the most part. There's a ton of cheese in Dragon, and a lot of it stinks. But something doesn't sit right with me about a whole class in Dragon, purposefully never included in the hardcover Best Of compilation. Even the Ninja in 3.5 got printed in a book. Also, you could actually buy an individual issue of the magazine. Never gonna happen now that they've pulled all pdf sales, but I held out hope for some time that they'd offer individual issues of Dragon for sale.
Actually WotC didn't pull ALL pdf sales, you CAN buy a single issue of the Dungeon and/or Dragon magazines through WotC directly, it's called getting the monthly subscription saving the full issue when it is compiled, and making sure you don't have that recurring billing stuff going on.
AFAIK - You will not get access to previous issues to download, but you will have access to the current issue when you subscribe. The Character builder does update all previous content, though I suspect that exclusives(Revenant/Assassin), or early debut material(Psion/Feats/Other Classes/Races that will appear in a future supplement), may not be available from previous months - except of course the supplement material after it gets released on the supplements actual release. This is my suspicion anyway.
JL
Actually WotC didn't pull ALL pdf sales, you CAN buy a single issue of the Dungeon and/or Dragon magazines through WotC directly, it's called getting the monthly subscription saving the full issue when it is compiled, and making sure you don't have that recurring billing stuff going on.
AFAIK - You will not get access to previous issues to download, but you will have access to the current issue when you subscribe. The Character builder does update all previous content, though I suspect that exclusives(Revenant/Assassin), or early debut material(Psion/Feats/Other Classes/Races that will appear in a future supplement), may not be available from previous months - except of course the supplement material after it gets released on the supplements actual release. This is my suspicion anyway.
JL
Actually currently you have access to ALL previous issues, also you get the Character Builder with ALL content from DDI AND the print books that relates to PCs. The caveat is that the CB updates a bit over a month after the compiled issues (at least currently) but only a couple of weeks delay from the latest print books.
As for the Assassin it was a safe bet for Shadow source but was nice to see it confirmed, as well as the bit about IT'S NOT A ROGUE. I look at rogues and yeah they can kill well (being a striker) and yeah they're sneaky, but they didn't seem any better a fit for a 'true' assassin more than any other class really. Should be nice to see how the class actually functions.
As for the Assassin it was a safe bet for Shadow source but was nice to see it confirmed, as well as the bit about IT'S NOT A ROGUE. I look at rogues and yeah they can kill well (being a striker) and yeah they're sneaky, but they didn't seem any better a fit for a 'true' assassin more than any other class really. Should be nice to see how the class actually functions.
Same thing I think about with the ninja. Sure a rogue could be a poor man's ninja(very poor), but it doesn't capture the class well at all.
I hope(if we get the ninja) that it will be a shadow controller. I see lots of potential for the ninja(or shadow ninja) to be able to use magic/gadgets to move people around, trap them, and do some ninja butt kicking represented as area attacks. Lots of other good stuff too.:D
I would be disappointed if it ends up being a striker. Then it would be alot like the rogue, just with shadow magic flavor.
Actually currently you have access to ALL previous issues, also you get the Character Builder with ALL content from DDI AND the print books that relates to PCs. The caveat is that the CB updates a bit over a month after the compiled issues (at least currently) but only a couple of weeks delay from the latest print books.
As for the Assassin it was a safe bet for Shadow source but was nice to see it confirmed, as well as the bit about IT'S NOT A ROGUE. I look at rogues and yeah they can kill well (being a striker) and yeah they're sneaky, but they didn't seem any better a fit for a 'true' assassin more than any other class really. Should be nice to see how the class actually functions.
The WotC had mentioned at one point that they were trying to figure out how to set it up so that content from previous months could not be accessed by subscribers who started their subscription later.(ie no june issue access if you just signed up in july, that might still be in the works)
The WotC had mentioned at one point that they were trying to figure out how to set it up so that content from previous months could not be accessed by subscribers who started their subscription later.(ie no june issue access if you just signed up in july, that might still be in the works)
That has(to my knowledge, but maybe it's changed) long been nixed.
Wait .... so, you have money to buy splat books - maybe not when they come out, but eventually. Yet you don't have money to buy the much cheaper one month subscription to DDi that allows you to get every single issue of Dragon up to that point, every issue of Dungeon, Character Builder with all the current updates, and all the exclusives up to that point in time, at any point in time?
Something don't add up here ...
umm no, I dont have money to buy every splat book.... just the ones I want, and currently, not to many out there.
and also, if the only thing of note in whichever month of dragon/dungeon that the assassin will be in, if thats all of note thats in it, its not worth the money to me.
if it is to you, thats fine.....
speaking of the character builder......... remind me to buy a ddi monthly subscription to get it....... after it gets updated for divine power.
umm no, I dont have money to buy every splat book.... just the ones I want, and currently, not to many out there.
and also, if the only thing of note in whichever month of dragon/dungeon that the assassin will be in, if thats all of note thats in it, its not worth the money to me.
if it is to you, thats fine.....
speaking of the character builder......... remind me to buy a ddi monthly subscription to get it....... after it gets updated for divine power.
You're still not getting what I'm, or any of us, are saying.
1) I didn't say every splat book. I didn't even imply it.
2) You can buy the ones you want. Right. We already established that.
3) A one month's sub of DDi is cheaper than any single splat book, gives you access to the rules from every splat book that you can print off if you want, and gives you access to every single Dragon article up to that point, which means if you saw something besides just the Assassin, but it was from an earlier month, you could get that too. And as long as it's saved to your hard drive it's yours.
The WotC had mentioned at one point that they were trying to figure out how to set it up so that content from previous months could not be accessed by subscribers who started their subscription later.(ie no june issue access if you just signed up in july, that might still be in the works)That has(to my knowledge, but maybe it's changed) long been nixed.
Actually by my understanding it's still something WotC intends to implement. but won't do so until they can establish a system that can track what months each individual subscriber has been active for. With such a system in place one for example would only get access to issues for the months they subscribed for (no free back issues), but would retain download access to each corresponding issue even after said subscription ended. Presumable if they ever implement such a system new subscribers would still be able to purchase individual back issues, hopefully at a reduced cost.
The coding for such a system however has turned out to be trickier than WotC originaly anticipated, so at one point they were going to only have the most recent compiled issues available online and older subscribers would have to contact customer service to access back issues. For whaterver reasons they instead chose to go with the current free back issue access method instead until such time as they can figure out how to implement an automated subscription tracker. Fortunately this is one front where WotC digital incompetence has turned out to be a boon for the consumer (unlike with programs such as the visualizer and game table)
So for now the idea is on hold, like a lot of other elements of the originally presented DDi, but likewise WotC still intends to get around to it at some point.
You're still not getting what I'm, or any of us, are saying.
3) A one month's sub of DDi is cheaper than any single splat book, gives you access to the rules from every splat book that you can print off if you want, and gives you access to every single Dragon article up to that point, which means if you saw something besides just the Assassin, but it was from an earlier month, you could get that too. And as long as it's saved to your hard drive it's yours.
okay I get it now. that said most of the dragon mag articles I've seen I didnt like.... and money as become an issue recently though, and this issue walks on 4 legs, so not much of anything for me for a while....
And if you never bought PH2, you wouldn't have the Druid, or the Bard, or the Invoker, or the Barbarian, etc.*
(*This sentiment could be said about any D&D product, except for, ironically, D&DI, which gives access to everything.)
You know what I find "ridiculous", Stogoe? That you refuse to pay for a D&D product and then complain about not having access to its content. Fact is that a year's subscription to D&DI is cheaper than a pair of D&D hardcovers, and gives you significantly more content than a pair of hardcovers.
I really, really hate this "whining-about-what's-in-a-product-you-refuse-to-buy" crap.
Actually I can get about 3 hard covers for the price of DDI and since the price went up now it is getting to be close to 4 hard covers.
Just because it gives you something to put in your games (content) doesn't mean it is usable content. I have yet to use anything of it yet for myself.
Actually I can get about 3 hard covers for the price of DDI and since the price went up now it is getting to be close to 4 hard covers.
Just because it gives you something to put in your games (content) doesn't mean it is usable content. I have yet to use anything of it yet for myself.
I think you have missed the whole direction of this conversation. For example CelticMutt is saying you can pay for 1 month of DDI. Then download the Character Builder with all the info and stats for all the races, classes ,weapons etc, and it is cheaper than buying all the books. (even at 14.95)You then download the builder and you have it on your system, subscription or not. You could then go a few months and then do it again, and get the update and have the current info at that time.
I think you have missed the whole direction of this conversation. For example CelticMutt is saying you can pay for 1 month of DDI. Then download the Character Builder with all the info and stats for all the races, classes ,weapons etc, and it is cheaper than buying all the books. (even at 414.95)You then download the builder and you have it on your system, subscription or not. You could then go a few months and then do it again, and get the update and have the current info at that time.
That's what I did and it works for me. (of course it works even better when the day your subscription ends the power goes out at WOTC and the servers are shut down accidentally giving you one extra month for free, lol)
That's what I did and it works for me. (of course it works even better when the day your subscription ends the power goes out at WOTC and the servers are shut down accidentally giving you one extra month for free, lol)
I feel just the opposite about account 'goofs' like this.
When I first started subscribing to Insider, I did so on a monthly basis. At the time, I much preferred to 'keep track' of my monthly purchases. If I bought a month, that's all I wanted, I didn't want to auto-renew for another.
Troube was, my account wasn't always shut off by a person from Customer Service (shut-off didn't appear to be automatic).
It was typical for my account to be confirmed (by email from CS) as ending on such-and-such a date, and I still had full access 10 days into the next month. A WotC employee once referred to this glitch as 'undead accounts' (clever ;)). Again, the problem was, I didn't want to pay for another month (not automatically at least). Someone once called this a 'grace period' but it just drove me nuts.
Seriously ;). So, eventually I decided to sign-up for a full year. Now, after extending for another year at the introductory price, I'm good, no hassles until mid-2011.
Keep the Assassin there and I won't miss it.
My only fear is that the Shadow Dancer powers may be taken up by the Assassin instead of being saved for the Ninja. Perhaps both will have them.
Exclusive to DDi. Good.
Keep the Assassin there and I won't miss it.
I'm confused. Didn't WotC say races and classes will only appear in PHBs and Campaign Player's Guides? So surely the Assassin must be reprinted sometime in the future in a PHB, right?
I'm confused. Didn't WotC say races and classes will only appear in PHBs and Campaign Player's Guides? So surely the Assassin must be reprinted sometime in the future in a PHB, right?
That's the only place that they will see PRINT. It's not the only source for them. That's why we already have minotaurs, gnolls, shadar-kai, wilden (and until EPG Warforged) in Dragon magazine. We know though that the wilden and minotaurs will be in PH3.
DDI already has the revenant and will have assassin plus likely other races and classes in time.
Between their promise that these will always be DDI-exclusive and their promise about PRINT sources of races and classes that means you won't see them in the Dragon Annuals that come out in print. Also the rule of PGs and PHBs should help reinforce that while a DM can approve a race with stats in an MM, the MM writeups are meant to be NPC races not PC races. The bladeling in MotP kind of breaks both rules though since it includes some racial feats so implies a PC race.
Not saying you are wrong, I'm just sharing my opinion.
To me, memberships should be full of extra options, insider secrets, sneak peeks, cool art galleries, and other bonus stuff. I just don't feel you should have to be a member to see the "basic" info for anything, especially races and classes. Paragon paths, EDs, extra options, feats, and all that stuff is fine by me.
I'm just saying that I feel the races and classes should all be easily accessible, and printed in books.
Don't take this wrong, but isn't that exactly what the Revenant & Assassin are? When gearing up for a D&D game, the Revenant or other undead are not what I think of when choosing my race. Playing an undead has never been anything basic to D&D, and as a race the Revenant is nothing but bonus content that would not normally be considered for gameplay (I might feel differently if they actually put out a Ravenloft Campaign Setting for 4e).
Assassin is really more of the same. A nice class, but it's hardly iconic to the D&D experience, and I feel that they're an acceptable class to make DDI exclusive. Its not like they tried to make the Monk exclusive, which very much is a basic class in the realm of D&D.
As an exclusive, the Assassin serves two purposes, to give more value to the DDI service and to give subscribers an early look at the Shadow power source, which otherwise won't be available until PHB4 it seems.
Assassin is really more of the same. A nice class, but it's hardly iconic to the D&D experience, and I feel that they're an acceptable class to make DDI exclusive. Its not like they tried to make the Monk exclusive, which very much is a basic class in the realm of D&D.
Maybe my memory is failing. I no longer own my original Ad&d books, but it seems to me the Assassin was just as much a part of them as the monk was.
Sure they have evoloved it from the "you must be an evil alignment" to play one, to the current status. They had a great article in Dragon on the Assassin and it discussed the current philosophy on aligments. The article was called
Maybe my memory is failing. I no longer own my original Ad&d books, but it seems to me the Assassin was just as much a part of them as the monk was.
Sure they have evoloved it from the "you must be an evil alignment" to play one, to the current status. They had a great article in Dragon on the Assassin and it discussed the current philosophy on aligments.
They were there, yes, but still hardly iconic to the game.
Okay, Warden's aren't exactly iconic D&D classes either, but my point is, I don't think the stuff they are making exclusive to DDI is stuff that your average group or player will miss. It very much falls into the area of 'bonus content'.
They were there, yes, but still hardly iconic to the game.
Okay, Warden's aren't exactly iconic D&D classes either, but my point is, I don't think the stuff they are making exclusive to DDI is stuff that your average group or player will miss. It very much falls into the area of 'bonus content'.
Oops sorry I totaly missed your point!:embarrass I agree with what you just said 100%.
In any case, I want a combination of Con and Dex to be used tfor them somehow, if for no other reason than to make Revenants perfect for one of the builds (And to give gnolls an Ideal class too!).
Thoughts?
So, what are the expectations for the Assassin's ability score usage? I'm betting Dex as a main, and then for one of the builds to use Con as a secondary stat. I suppose it could be Con/Dex, though, because another main-con class would be cool.
In any case, I want a combination of Con and Dex to be used tfor them somehow, if for no other reason than to make Revenants perfect for one of the builds (And to give gnolls an Ideal class too!).
Thoughts?
I doubt it'll be Con very much. Dex/Cha or Dex/Int makes much more sense. It might even go so far as Dex/Cha/Int or Wis. Either way, Constitution just doesn't seem as a very important stat for a Ninja.
These are My hopes for the class.
I doubt it'll be Con very much. Dex/Cha or Dex/Int makes much more sense. It might even go so far as Dex/Cha/Int or Wis. Either way, Constitution just doesn't seem as a very important stat for a Ninja.
Yeah, but since they're shadow power source, it might be to help them handle the raw power they have going for them (Like it is for invokers or Infernal locks). If they were martial, I'd definitely agree with you, but as it is, I can see Con being used easily. And, I would say, nothing should make a better shadow-focused assassin than a revenant (Like how Dragonborn make the best Dragon-sorcerers, or Gnomes and Feylocks/Illusion Wizards). If either Con or Dex isn't used at all, I shall be very sad.
Also, Con/Dex is the only class stat combination yet to have any use.
I could see an Assassin having a path that provides them with DR on some attacks, and another path that lets them strike then teleport out of range. Not sure what their damage bonus would be though, I don't really want it to be something with CA since that edges them too much into Rogue territory.
To me Wis would be important to an Assassin but hey that was just me coming up with that, not based on anything other than my own thinking. So for you guys who know, could you please either explain to me what exactly the Shadow power source is, and how it functioned, and what classes it had?
Well after a quick search I found a forum discussion on a thread called "Power Source Mechanics: Primal and Shadow"
Originally Posted by JohnLynch
I'm confused. Didn't WotC say races and classes will only appear in PHBs and Campaign Player's Guides? So surely the Assassin must be reprinted sometime in the future in a PHB, right?
That's the only place that they will see PRINT. It's not the only source for them. That's why we already have minotaurs, gnolls, shadar-kai, wilden (and until EPG Warforged) in Dragon magazine. We know though that the wilden and minotaurs will be in PH3.
DDI already has the revenant and will have assassin plus likely other races and classes in time.
Between their promise that these will always be DDI-exclusive and their promise about PRINT sources of races and classes that means you won't see them in the Dragon Annuals that come out in print. Also the rule of PGs and PHBs should help reinforce that while a DM can approve a race with stats in an MM, the MM writeups are meant to be NPC races not PC races.
Grazel said it much more elegantly than I have in the past. I would hasten to add that the Assassin and the Reverant are the first labeled exclusives for Dragon, and that the Dungeon stuff has rarely been reprinted.
Just curious, was Shadow a Power Source in 3 and/or 3.5? (or is it a new power source altogether?)I actually never played either, so when I was throwing out Wis as a possible important ability it was more of a wild guess! :embarrass
More or less, but not til near the end. Well, there was the Shadowdancer prestige class (kinda like a Paragon Path, but not exactly) that came early on. But the shadow base classes didn't appear near til near the end of 3.5.
Tome of Magic introduced the Shadowcaster, a magic user with shadow based spell-like abilities, ie innate magic instead of book magic. And the last Undead book (I think) had the True Necromancer, which most are expecting a 4E version of for the Shadow source.
I think Shadowcaster was Cha based and Shadowdancer was geared towards Rogues. Don't remember what True Necromancer's caster stat was.