WOTC, you may want to make the monster packs non random as well. DMs like to use the right monsters for the right encounters.
Sure, there a comparatively few 4th Edition fans doing the SoW adventure path -- but these kits would be pretty useable for any "starter" campaign.
1) Why not make the whole Monster pack visible?
2) What does "semi-random" actually mean in this case?
overall though, I totally look forward to this - I had already declared the end of my purchasing of random boosters because I have so many minis that I have never been able to use simply because of the monster they represent being so much higher level than any game I have run has made it to.
(well, I mostly bought heavily discounted packs anyway. booster cases ftw)
Also, I'd like to see the monster packs be non-random, but I think they're randomizing most of the monsters because of the minis games; rares are simply better.
I do like the PC packs, though. I tend to only use minis for the PCs anyway.
I guess I'm going to be the first doomsayer. It seems the prices for these non-random mini sets are a bit higher proportionally than the random ones were, but then again they increased in price since I originally bought them.
Also, I'd like to see the monster packs be non-random, but I think they're randomizing most of the monsters because of the minis games; rares are simply better.
I do like the PC packs, though. I tend to only use minis for the PCs anyway.
Hopefully the increase in the price to number of minis ratio will make sense once the PC packs are seen - It would be logical for higher quality sculpts and paint jobs to be used since they are making less different sculpts than they would for a randomized booster line.
If WotC were to release a large pack of minis that had everything you needed to play through, say H1, or H3, or whatever, I would buy it, even if it cost $20.
If WotC were to release a large pack of minis that had everything you needed to play through, say H1, or H3, or whatever, I would buy it, even if it cost $20.
I think it would cost way more than $20. You're looking at well over 100 miniatures. Even if they didn't include any minions, it would still be something like 50 miniatures. I don't think such packs would be practical. It would cost a lot of money to design a mini for every type of monster in every H/P/E adventure, and only a small subset of the small subset of D&D players who are planning to run the adventure would buy the giant mini pack. I don't see this happening.
I guess I'm going to be the first doomsayer. It seems the prices for these non-random mini sets are a bit higher proportionally than the random ones were, but then again they increased in price since I originally bought them.
Also, I'd like to see the monster packs be non-random, but I think they're randomizing most of the monsters because of the minis games; rares are simply better.
I do like the PC packs, though. I tend to only use minis for the PCs anyway.
Hopefully the increase in the price to number of minis ratio will make sense once the PC packs are seen - It would be logical for higher quality sculpts and paint jobs to be used since they are making less different sculpts than they would for a randomized booster line.
I agree with this; $11 for 3 miniatures is steep, but worth it if they're higher quality than D&D minis usually are.
My only questions:
1) Why not make the whole Monster pack visible?
To preserve the higher sales that occur with randomized packs. Some of us might not LIKE it, but it does increase sales. *shrug*
2) What does "semi-random" actually mean in this case?
Heh, it said right in the article. 1 visible figure, 1 random rare, 1 random uncommon, 2 random commons.
Yay for non-randomized figs. I am going to guess that the fully visible figs will indeed be of higher overall quality, ala the starter deck characters. The visible monster figs, and rare figs from that set, same deal, and the visible fig will likely be a commonly used, need-more-than-one fig. The uncommons and commons will be likely be the overall lower quality figs we've seen up until now, to keep the price somewhat down.
I agree with this; $11 for 3 miniatures is steep, but worth it if they're higher quality than D&D minis usually are.
I did not think of it earlier - but one thing that should be true with the minis being packaged as visible in the PC packs would be much less bent and misshapen minis.
I'm hoping we get a good mix of different races and classes. 2:1 for gender seems fair enough, though I have more of a shortage of female figures than male.
Damn. I mean, I don't really have the money for these at the moment (I just bought a bunch of Dungeon Tiles - I'm switching from long-time whitebeard use to DTs), but even if they came out now I'd, like, sell a kidney to get them.
Assuming, of course, they remain high-quality.
And here's hoping that the Monster packs have rarities useful for actual play - like commons that are of typical minion-friendly monster types.
The idea of non-random minis appeals to me. Now, I'll know going in exactly what I'm buying, no guesswork, no prospecting. I've got a handful of minis, picked up over the years. Finding the right ones may even add to my enjoyment of 4e, which is a good thing ;).
THEY ARE RELEASING NEW CHARACTER POWERS IN THESE MINI BOXES.
That means, you have to buy these boxes of minis to get new rules for creating characters.
I am praying that these cards actually match the minis rather than being randomized. Because... if they're randomized... you can actually call it D&D: The Gathering without being a troll.
I think it would cost way more than $20. You're looking at well over 100 miniatures. Even if they didn't include any minions, it would still be something like 50 miniatures. I don't think such packs would be practical. It would cost a lot of money to design a mini for every type of monster in every H/P/E adventure, and only a small subset of the small subset of D&D players who are planning to run the adventure would buy the giant mini pack. I don't see this happening.
I agree with this; $11 for 3 miniatures is steep, but worth it if they're higher quality than D&D minis usually are.
hmm maybe
what all is in h1 trying to remember what the max was in any one fight
kobold minions , i think 10 is the max here
dragon shield's 4?
casters 2
the dragon dog things 3 or 4
irongut
several orcs
necro
giant ooze
some other stuff, yeah your right it would be expensive 40 50 bucks I would think.
You guys are focusing on the wrong thing. Yes, visible minis are great. But look deeper.
THEY ARE RELEASING NEW CHARACTER POWERS IN THESE MINI BOXES.
That means, you have to buy these boxes of minis to get new rules for creating characters.
I am praying that these cards actually match the minis rather than being randomized. Because... if they're randomized... you can actually call it D&D: The Gathering without being a troll.
i assume that they will add them to the compendium but could be wrong,
the magic comparison is not accurate, the heroe packs are not random and there the one with the new powers.
I assume the powers are fluffed to the paticular hero, I wonder if they are doing the mascot characters from 3rd.
I would think the minis are a bit more important.
and they will most likely end up on the interwebs.
My psychic prediction: Male Dragonborn Fighter, Male Eladrin Wizard, Male Tiefling Warlock, Male Human Paladin, Female Elf Ranger, Female Halfling Rogue. You read it here first!
- That the power cards will be released on the net as the other cards are released.
- That they still retain skirmish rules for the game.
- That they improve and maintain the RPG stat cards.
Either that, or if they are replacing one side with the power cards, I hope it's the RPG stat side, and we still see skirmish rules.
My mind is spinning at the possibilities and fun that could be had with non-randomized minis. Hopefully WOTC notices this thread and I encourage everyone to post what they would be happy to pay for and see produced.
Cheers!
I'm pleased to see this, but I'll point out that it really only scratches the surface of providing figures for player characters. For example, there are only six Martial Heroes figures planned for 2009, to cover 4 classes, 8 races, and 2 genders.
My psychic prediction: Male Dragonborn Fighter, Male Eladrin Wizard, Male Tiefling Warlock, Male Human Paladin, Female Elf Ranger, Female Halfling Rogue. You read it here first!
I think the first two packs said "Martial Characters" it's the second and third that are going to be "Arcane Characters". The Fighter, Ranger, and Rogue are more likely.
I'll say a Dragonborn Fighter, maybe a Human Fighter, Elven Ranger, Tiefling Rouge, Halfling Rogue, and Dwarven Warlord (for the Iconics, not human fighter really, but the rest are pictures from the class entries)
Heh, reminds me of all those "special" cards. Buy enough and you get a "special" card. Great marketing
(course you have to paint them yourself). The D&D ones look a bit crappy imo. Better than nothing, I guess (and you don;t have to paint them). I don't like the randomness though either. Eliminate that, and they might be worth buying. I'd love to be able to pick up 20 orcs for example, or a mixed warband of hobgoiblins, etc etc,
Then what is the point? I won't be buying minis unless the one I can see looks like my character. And is female!
They aren't doing all the different combinations?
Then what is the point? I won't be buying minis unless the one I can see looks like my character. And is female!
perhaps you should send them a picture pronto then!! I would hate for them to shut down the production line because your not going to buy any minis.
I am all for nonrandom minis. I think 10 bucks is too much for 3 of em, even if they have cards. The random ones all have cards and it doesn't cost 30 bucks per pack. The competition won't be selling them for 10 bucks for 3. My suggestion to make this product more appealing is to either reduce the price to $6.99 for 3 of em (which I find to be an unlikely solution due to the price of the clear clamshell packaging required to display the minis) or add another miniature in making each package have 4 of em (maybe even sell them in 5 packs if you wanted to give your customers a deal.)
love,
malkav
Too Late: People were clamoring for this for what seems like forever now. I moved on when 4e came out (I had stopped buying mini's after the 2nd or 3rd set) because of the PDF MM. I bought that an I am now making tokens (thank you alea) from the pictures in the MM.
Too Little: Semi-random is BS. I can see 1 of 5 mini's before I buy and I am bound to get completely unrelated mini's inside. If WotC is moving in this direction they obvious are starting to open their eyes and see that most people want sets, not randoms. I'm going to see a common goblin in the pack window and open it to find a displacer beast, a drow, a dire wolf, and an imp. I can maybe get two or three of those into an encounter with a lot of creative storytelling.
The Good: This shows they are listening, albeit slowly. Separating PCs and Monsters is fantastic. If they can guarantee whole encounters in the MM packs I might change my mind, but the price point is too high for me (it needs to come down).
"Let's pull a GamesWorkshop!"
Guys, it's not working for them.. and it certainly is not going to work with your far from top of the line minis.
Guys you can do much better for your money than this kind of crap.
Check out www.reapermini.com or even www.gamesworkshop.com You're bound to find something that suits your character, down to the details on the model with either of them. (Seriously) And with Reaper, you don't even have to assemble anything, and it's cheaper.
No randomness, it's easy as heck to paint on wotc quality (a four year old with broken fingers could do it. Seriously... don't be afraid of painting guys.. and they are on the same scale)
For me this is too little and too late.
If they can guarantee whole encounters in the MM packs I might change my mind,
That'd be brilliant. It's not a CMG, it's an encounter in a box. Which encounter will you get to play this week? LOL: It's like sealed D&D! :D
Do like 10 encounters per set release. Blind packed, but you know you're getting a whole encounter in the box (or make the boxes nonrandom, but then you have other issues selling the less popular encounters and getting the popular ones into player hands, think Magic precons during Kamigawa).
They'd have to scale them by level, though. "Random encounter of level 3-7." Or they could vary the cards so the encounter can fit a broader range. That works better with scalable foes like Hobgoblins or Eladrin, or even dragons, than with things like demons.
Won't buy monster packs unless I know what I'm getting for my bucks-1 known and 4 random isn't going to cut the mustard, not when I can get 20 skeletons/zombies/goblins from games workshop for 20 bucks and if I spray them with Primer they already look better than most of the D&D mini paint jobs. This has to change before I'll consider it.
The biggest problem I always had with the D&D minis is that I would open up a box and say, "Well, none of my characters or mobs look like this, but hey at least I got Thundertusk Calvary!" Serious;y, I want usuable minis, not varied, or "cool", just ones that I can use on a regular basis; I hate using a flesh golem as a dire wolf.
It sounds like you'll get that with the MM set.
It sounds like you'll get that with the MM set.
I agree that this would be awesome, I mean, the MM mobs are used more than anything else, so why did we need all these "made up" models (i.e. Thundertusk Calvary)? Give me a pack of orcs, goblins, dragons and demons; I'll give you an adventure.
I just want a good Tiefling.
Best thing until now is to take an Ascendand Hellswort and clip off the wings.
I did that. Yeah, I know, I am nuts :P
6 Arcane minis.
3 Divine.
3 Primal.
Hrm... last time I checked there were 4 martial classes, 3 arcane (soon to be 4), 2 divine (soon to be 4 divine) and at least 3 primal.
Plus 8 races, soon to be 16.
I expect alot of people using dragonborn rogues as wizards and fighters and clerics, or teifling warlocks as fighters.
To say nothing of goliaths and shifters and devas.
{edit for spelling}
The MM packs will be useless to me unless the packaged monsters are related. If a visible kobold means the remaining monsters will be kobolds of various kinds, with Rares being Kobold Elites or something, then I'll be cool with it - in fact excited. Even if they package monsters of similar level, +- 5 levels or so, I'll be happy.
If not, I'm not in the least interested in the MM sets. Some companies sell miniatures I can see, and I will stick with those. Even if the company is Lego.
Some companies sell miniatures I can see, and I will stick with those. Even if the company is Lego.
Does Lego sell good D&D-ish minis? Because I gotta tell ya, I've been looking for a supply of cheap 1-inch-base fantasy figs I could buy in bulk, and I ain't been finding 'em. I don't care so much about great quality, I'd go for the fantasy equivalent of plastic green army men if I could find them. If someone has some good specific suggestions here, I'm all eyes.
Does Lego sell good D&D-ish minis? Because I gotta tell ya, I've been looking for a supply of cheap 1-inch-base fantasy figs I could buy in bulk, and I ain't been finding 'em. I don't care so much about great quality, I'd go for the fantasy equivalent of plastic green army men if I could find them. If someone has some good specific suggestions here, I'm all eyes.
Does not compute. Legos are mad expensive.
Does not compute. Legos are mad expensive.
Well, D&D, now at $3 a mini, not exactly a bargain ...
Well, D&D, now at $3 a mini, not exactly a bargain ...
Yeah, but Legos:
Includes tent, campfire and dueling figures
It's like 10 bricks for $10.
http://www.target.com/LEGO-Indiana-Jones-Jungle-Duel/dp/B000Y8BF6G/sr=1-1/qid=1224696406/ref=sr_1_1/602-1672929-0067051?ie=UTF8&index=target&field-browse=1041972&rank=price&rh=k%3Alego%2Cp%5F36%3A%240-%2424&page=1
I like Legos and want to repaint a Lego figure for a Tiefling, but I hate how expensive they are.
I have to say that I'm enthused about the possibility of getting PC minis. $11 bucks for 3? If I can point out, even $11 for a single mini you will use for the rest of the campaign is, IMO, a better investment than....what, 6 minis for $15 (or whatever it is) that if you're lucky will be able to be used in a single game.
You're right, for the player sets this isn't a bad deal because this is a fig you'll use for months and months, maybe years, for a character you're attached to. Players will pay the $11 just to get their one dude, and that won't be a horrible value if it's a specific fig they wanted on the spot. You could absolutely get it cheaper, but a one-time $11 purchase is impulse-buy money and you get instant satisfaction of having the mini.
The equation is different for guys collecting minis who have to buy a lot of packs, like the DM.
Yeah, but Legos:
It's like 10 bricks for $10.
http://www.target.com/LEGO-Indiana-Jones-Jungle-Duel/dp/B000Y8BF6G/sr=1-1/qid=1224696406/ref=sr_1_1/602-1672929-0067051?ie=UTF8&index=target&field-browse=1041972&rank=price&rh=k%3Alego%2Cp%5F36%3A%240-%2424&page=1
I like Legos and want to repaint a Lego figure for a Tiefling, but I hate how expensive they are.
Lego sells bulk "bricks" including chestpieces, legs, heads, hats/helms, weapons/shield, chests/barrels etc. It's right on their website. It's certainly something I'm considering trying.
Lego sells bulk "bricks" including chestpieces, legs, heads, hats/helms, weapons/shield, chests/barrels etc. It's right on their website. It's certainly something I'm considering trying.
Huh. Knights Battle Pack or Skeleton Battle Pack. $13 for 5 figs:
http://shop.lego.com/ByCategory/Leaf.aspx?cn=97&d=203
Legos are cheaper than D&D minis now, although you don't have the variety.
Yeah, but Legos:
It's like 10 bricks for $10.
http://www.target.com/LEGO-Indiana-Jones-Jungle-Duel/dp/B000Y8BF6G/sr=1-1/qid=1224696406/ref=sr_1_1/602-1672929-0067051?ie=UTF8&index=target&field-browse=1041972&rank=price&rh=k%3Alego%2Cp%5F36%3A%240-%2424&page=1
I like Legos and want to repaint a Lego figure for a Tiefling, but I hate how expensive they are.
$10 for three miniatures and a bit of scenery, versus $11 for three miniatures. Lego is cheaper than DDM.
$10 for three miniatures and a bit of scenery, versus $11 for three miniatures. Lego is cheaper than DDM.
Jinx :D
I assume we'll be getting something like one pack of "heavy armor" martial characters (good for Warlords and Fighters) and one of "light armor" (rangers and rogues).
The 1/3 female minis...um...wow...I'm surprised they say that. Its probably actually a better ratio than past sets, but coming out and saying "Hey, we're making a deliberate choice to hardly give women any choices"? That puts me off a lot. That's not even enough to offer 1 of each race in the first set! Hopefully they'll at least include Dragonborn, Tielfing, Dwarf and Halfling, since human, half-elf, elf and eladrin all look pretty much alike. And hopefully they'll realize "Hey, we've only got two female martial characters, we better give them radically different weapons and armor". But I have doubts - and either way, that's still a terrible selection.
Not fond of the "collectible" rules. These will be very hard to integrate when looking through character options. If they wanted 4e to be a card based game, they should have just published it that way.
Semi random monster packs...might as well be random. 1 visible mini, probably a "common"? At a huge price increase? Total hit to all the big purchasers. Total hit to everyone else, because you probably don't want ONE orc, and if you buy enough visible orcs, you'll have enough packs that would have gotten your horde of orcs via pure random.
Blind packed, but you know you're getting a whole encounter in the box
This may sound cool, but just think of opening up your first three packs and discovering you are now the proud owner of three identical sets of "Kobold Ambush" packs when you're current campaign doesn't even use kobolds, and you were really hoping for the "Zombie Terror!" pack for your session on Halloween.
This may sound cool, but just think of opening up your first three packs and discovering you are now the proud owner of three identical sets of "Kobold Ambush" packs when you're current campaign doesn't even use kobolds, and you were really hoping for the "Zombie Terror!" pack for your session on Halloween.
Yes, but that's a blanket criticism of random collectibility. If your game is collectible, players will double up on lots of things. This packaging wouldn't solve that problem and exasperates it slightly, but if you're random already, does it matter?
Not to mention, you can always use more kobolds.
Does Lego sell good D&D-ish minis? Because I gotta tell ya, I've been looking for a supply of cheap 1-inch-base fantasy figs I could buy in bulk, and I ain't been finding 'em. I don't care so much about great quality, I'd go for the fantasy equivalent of plastic green army men if I could find them. If someone has some good specific suggestions here, I'm all eyes.
hard to say. My players face mainly humans and simple monstrous humanoids, so lego works great. I already have a huge collection, so cost is not an issue. When I do occasionally need new stuff, though, they have great options out right now: the current castle stuff features orcs, trolls, dwarves, undead, and plenty of d&d goodness. I can get a set with a catapult and 4 dudes for 18 bucks, and since I want the catapult as well, that's nice for me. YMMV - but deals can be found.
Also try www.bricklink.com
This packaging wouldn't solve that problem and exasperates it slightly, but if you're random already, does it matter?
Yes. Yes. Hell yes. Getting duplicates is bad enough; getting entire duplicated boosters is horrid.
Really, if they were making different encounters, they would need to make them non-random. Works fine for lots of other companies (pretty similar to Heroscape packing, for example).
That is breaking their stated philosophy of preventing the DnD sprawl that was called 3e. Now I could have character powers in: PHB, power book, one or more 'mini-paks', Dragon Maganize, and World specific books (FR for example).
Wow... not much of an attempt to reduce the amount of sprawl of DnD is it?
The biggest problem I have from reading the write-up on it is that they are going to include UNIQUE powers for each class.
That is breaking their stated philosophy of preventing the DnD sprawl that was called 3e. Now I could have character powers in: PHB, power book, one or more 'mini-paks', Dragon Maganize, and World specific books (FR for example).
Wow... not much of an attempt to reduce the amount of sprawl of DnD is it?
If they claimed to be reducing sprawl, they must've meant they were reducing it with DDI, because every release seems to be adding new sprawl in terms of classes, races, powers, paths, paragon paths, etc.
I'm just not a big fan of sprawling into tiny areas like this, where you have to buy minis to get your new powers, or a DDI subscription.
Not every release is going to be adding classes.
The kind of releases we are seeing are going to be different than what came before, we aren't going to have "The Shoe fighter it's a new class!" We are only getting so many classes per power source (I believe 4 or so) barring world specific ones. (like Swordmage and Artificer)
We most likely are not going to be seeing any more Martials for example. Build types for them? Probably. Like what we have in Martial power.. (isn't it a build per martial class?)
You don't have to buy DDI if you do not want to. Heck at my table there is a rather unofficial rule stating "If it's not printed It's not allowed" (meaning if it does not appear in a book or on printed paper, I'm not letting it in)
Nor have there been that many powers released in DDI thus far. (just some racial PP and two test build classes but then I've not been paying attention)
Yeah, it took WotC five years to realize that people were having trouble finding PCs or having difficulty tracking down that must-have monster for their game in # days.
Of course, to do so they're releasing several tiny-small PC boxes (where you'll need to buy multiple for a full party) and monster boxes where 1-in-5 will be random (and you can bet the must-have, rare figures will NOT be the visible ones).
Yes, it's a step in the right direction to serving your primary audience and clientèle (the RPGers) but it's one small-ass step.
You'll still have to buy many, many boxes for those pesky uncommons and rares and pray to Pelor almighty that you get the much-needed Beholder or Mind Flayer for the big bad and won't have to shell-out $30 on eBay.
I loath the randomized mini boxes. I never get what I want. I buy them because I like the variety and end up with a mass of crazy **** I'll never use like the outsider thing that looks like a metal dog with a spiked tongue for a head.
My collection:
link 1
link 2
link 3
With the overflow/doubles:
link 4
Not counting the equal number I donated to the local RPG group.
All that and I have 2 ogres. TWO! I can't have an encounter with ogre minions.
Thankfully Reaper and other companies are doing non-randomized plastic minis (that also look much better than the hack job WotC's has become).
http://www.reapermini.com/LegendaryEncountersPre-paintedPlastics
Or for the die-hard metal fans there's:
http://www.miniature-giant.com/
Reaper minis at rock bottom prices and cheaper than the plastic heroes.
Huh. Knights Battle Pack or Skeleton Battle Pack. $13 for 5 figs:
http://shop.lego.com/ByCategory/Leaf.aspx?cn=97&d=203
Legos are cheaper than D&D minis now, although you don't have the variety.
Here's what I was refering to, it's called pick a brick:
http://shop.lego.com/pab/?warning=false
Check it out. You can build figs for about $1 each and stock up on some heads, hair and accessories and have lots of variety, definitely good for human looking mini's.
I'm pleased to see this, but I'll point out that it really only scratches the surface of providing figures for player characters. For example, there are only six Martial Heroes figures planned for 2009, to cover 4 classes, 8 races, and 2 genders.
My psychic prediction: Male Dragonborn Fighter, Male Eladrin Wizard, Male Tiefling Warlock, Male Human Paladin, Female Elf Ranger, Female Halfling Rogue. You read it here first!
The way I read the announcement, it said two series are planned for 2009, each series to have 2 sets of martial, 2 sets of Arcance and 1 each of Primal and Divine.
So that's 12 martial in 2009.
3 more series are planned for 2010.
The PC packs are a bit pricey, but should be a reasonable buy for players looking for their PC, assuming the quality is fairly high. I'm not too worried about the power card thing. As far as I can tell it's just a gimmik. I mean, you can buy something like martial power and pick up dozens of new powers, or subscribe to Dragon and get like 5-10 powers every issue, or you can buy a mini and get a whopping one power, that you may or may not even want to take. Not a big deal, imo.
The monster packs seem a little more iffy. Getting 5 mini's for the price of 8 is not a good deal on the surface. It doesn't make any sense unless the visible mini is something high quality/desirable. Which is probably will be. You don't stick a crummy goblin fig in clear plastic in an attempt to sell more boosters.
What they will probably do, is have 4 catagories of monster figs instead of 3, so if you have a 40 monster set, you might have 8 visible, 12 rares, 12 uncommon, ect (note, numbers pulled out of thin air with no justification) In effect, making the visible mini a catagory of Rare you can pick out at the storeshelf.
Ugly or bizarre visible mini's would just reduce sales, so I imagine they'll be at least sorta special.
Ugly or bizarre visible mini's would just reduce sales, so I imagine they'll be at least sorta special.
Your analysis is reasonable, but the problem is different markets. Most GMs, I daresay, are looking for large numbers of non-rare miniatures. If i want a one-off monster, the current random deal is not really that big a deal. It's easy to find crazy monsters. However, most of my encounters - by definition - are not against rares. They are against orcs, goblins, kobolds, ogres, and especially playable races. And, generally, large numbers of them! I don't think I'm alone there.
I'm still very interested to see how this turns out. I'm not one of those who believe that WotC has no idea how to run a game, so I have a feeling it's going to be better than anticipated... but we shall see.
Your analysis is reasonable, but the problem is different markets. Most GMs, I daresay, are looking for large numbers of non-rare miniatures. If i want a one-off monster, the current random deal is not really that big a deal. It's easy to find crazy monsters. However, most of my encounters - by definition - are not against rares. They are against orcs, goblins, kobolds, ogres, and especially playable races. And, generally, large numbers of them! I don't think I'm alone there.
You're definately not alone. On this issue though, the change seems like mostly a lateral move--buying random boosters was never a good way to put together your Orc and Goblin hordes, and with the change, it still isn't. On the other hand, the sets are supposed to become more themed and more tied to the MM, so that could be a plus. I dunno, it's hard to speculate with limited info. When we see the first set of 40 monsters in the new format, we'll have a much better idea what we are looking at.
I believe that the powers will be previews of powers coming out in books that are to be released a couple months after the minis. Not totally brand new powers you can only get in minis boxes ala the Gnome/Shadar-kai/Orc cards.
If you read the article... (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20081021)
It says (emphasis mine):
Each package contains 3 PC minis: 2 males and 1 female, and 3 unique power cards featuring brand new class powers. All three of the figures in the package will be visible so you’ll know exactly which pack to pick for your game.
That does not see like they are just preview of up and coming books. Especially since most of the power books will be out by the end of 2009 and some of these are slated for 2010.
I would like to see non-random monster encounter packs as well.
I have purchased at least 2 cases of each set so far and I have a large storage bin full of minis that I will never use in game because I have too many of a particlur kind, or think it looks too "goofy" or because they are no longer valid thanks to 4E. My desire to continue purchasing cases has diminished greatly due to all the extra minis I have accumulated.
I feel this is a very good step in the right direction for DM's and players alike!
The price point doesn't excite me.
The 8 random minis under the old packaging? $1.87 per mini
The 1 nonrandom, 4 random under new pack? $3 per mini
Hero minis will be $3.66 per mini.
Nope, no sir I don't like it.
No sir, I don't like it.
The price point doesn't excite me.
The 8 random minis under the old packaging? $1.87 per mini
The 1 nonrandom, 4 random under new pack? $3 per mini
Hero minis will be $3.66 per mini.
Nope, no sir I don't like it.
What are the prices for other non-random minis lines?
When you know what you are getting, the price goes up. Being able to pick and choose comes at a cost.
Nived is correct. You are essentially paying more per fig to get a little bit
more information as to what figures you are getting.
I can't say if this is a good thing.
What are the prices for other non-random minis lines?
When you know what you are getting, the price goes up. Being able to pick and choose comes at a cost.
Not really, when I shop for aftermarket D&D minis at cons I get them for .75 cents a pop or 3 for 2 bucks. Commons, but then again I get by with commons.
I certainly see what I'm getting and its not worth the extra cost. A lot of uncommons are a buck a pop, maybe two.
Granted on the other hand if the figure is great for the minis game or sought after for the RPG or a rare it can jack the price... if it all three (I'm looking at you Large Blue Dragon) you can see them going for $50.
Not really, when I shop for minis at cons I get them for .75 cents a pop or 3 for 2 bucks. Commons, but then again I get by with commons.
That's pretty much the cost of single common of D&D minis.
So I could excuse the PC packs, PCs will see a lot of table time, I can see the investment.
For the monsters and regular minis... no, a $1.13 per mini price hike is asking too much to see one out of five.
If WoTC can improve their sculpts and paint to(or above) their competitors level than I will pick up the PC packs probably. The monster packs are a far less likely pick up for me unless they are themed(1 known/visible monstrous humanoid and 4 random ones for example)and again have the quality increase.
The price isn't really out of line with Reapers's prepainted plastic line, but you know 100% what you get with them and the sculpts and paint are higher quality.
If WoTC can improve their sculpts and paint to(or above) their competitors level than I will pick up the PC packs probably. The monster packs are a far less likely pick up for me unless they are themed(1 known/visible monstrous humanoid and 4 random ones for example)and again have the quality increase.
One thing that DDM has going for it is that they are INCREADIBLY durable. I have not yet seen a broken mini, and I've sat on enough to know they don't break easily.
If you read the article... (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20081021)
It says (emphasis mine):
Each package contains 3 PC minis: 2 males and 1 female, and 3 unique power cards featuring brand new class powers. All three of the figures in the package will be visible so you’ll know exactly which pack to pick for your game.
That does not see like they are just preview of up and coming books. Especially since most of the power books will be out by the end of 2009 and some of these are slated for 2010.
The cards will probably have mini stats (for the D&D mini game) on one side, and a 4e power on the flip side that roughly approximates what the mini's signature power is.
Or at least that's what I'd expect.
Really, they'll have cards with DDM stats on one side and they need something on the reverse. You can't have PC stats (too little space and no format for a PC other than a character sheet) and a monster stat would be odd to give to players.
A power is a good idea. But you don't want to just reprint established powers, as those are already being done in the various power cards to be released in '09.
But a unique power... And I'm sure the powers will all be balanced and the farm team they have working on DDM know their 4e like the back of their hand.
Yeah... that's not going to cause problems.
I mean, DMs have it bad enough with players pulling out classes, races, and feats from obscure books (or they will in a year), now they have packs of minis to keep-up with.
I think it would cost way more than $20. You're looking at well over 100 miniatures. Even if they didn't include any minions, it would still be something like 50 miniatures. I don't think such packs would be practical.
I still have the spreadsheet I made when KotS came out. 131 unique minis, if you remove the minions it's 58, so good guesses.
They could do a range of packs that cover published modules. Doing one big one would probably not be practical.
Published modules could list the packs that would be needed to cover all the minis you'd need, so it would be easy to see what additional packs you wanted.
Personally this news is coming too late. I'm moving to a MapTool solution and I may just skip minis altogether. Though if they do make it reasonable to get the minis I need I may re-consider and use minis instead of digital tokens.
I'm excited that WotC is making it easier for me to get what I want without wasting a bunch of money on randoms, but it would've been nicer to get it when I need it. I guess I'll be going to Reaper Minis for my P1 stuff. Better luck next time, WotC!
I still have the spreadsheet I made when KotS came out. 131 unique minis, if you remove the minions it's 58, so good guesses.
They could do a range of packs that cover published modules. Doing one big one would probably not be practical.
Published modules could list the packs that would be needed to cover all the minis you'd need, so it would be easy to see what additional packs you wanted.
Personally this news is coming too late. I'm moving to a MapTool solution and I may just skip minis altogether. Though if they do make it reasonable to get the minis I need I may re-consider and use minis instead of digital tokens.
Does Maptool include digital mini's, I've heard good things about it, but never got around to trying it out.
The cards instead will use the 4e monster stat block on them and probably have fluff RP text on the other side (they didn't specify).
From the addendum article they posted it sounded like the power cards won't be random but one power for each mini in the pack, specific to that mini.
Also by the wording the price of mini's would be going up even if they kept the old style. As it is they're adding more paint layers so that the mini's will look better (part of the reason for raising the cost), also with sales slipping the cost/mini increases for them. By dropping skirmish I think they know they'll be selling less minis overall so need to raise the cost slightly.
We'll see how it goes but overall I've found the cost of the DDM minis to be more affordable per mini than the lead minis that I used to collect when I first got into D&D back in the Red Box days.
Firstly, yeah I was 100% wrong about my speculation on the power cards.
Secondly, what does it say about WotC's bottom line when two sets after the big brand new re-launch of D&DMinis it's already being axed after the present product's launch?
6 months after the big new update and the introduction of some potential competition (plastic Reaper, Warcraft) is all it took to sink the game. Wow, but what happens to the main line if Pathfinder and other games really take off and organized RPGA play drops?
This also makes me more irritated with the continually randomized figures. Without the collectibe skirmish game there's no need.
It doesn't matter to me. I've been buying DDM since Harbringer and have most of my armies of goblins and orcs and skeletons. I'm not some new player who could really benefit from a box of orcs or bag of zombies. I'll buy the figures I need (ogres!!) and ignore the rest.
It only really shafts the new players. You need 9 goblins for a battle (4 minions, 3 standard) and suddenly you need to buy 18 or 20 boxes of minis.
(this is probably why sales dropped. RPGers don't need stupid commons they'll never use dozens of. I have 8 twigling blights and 7 will never see play. once you reach critical mass you stop buying except for the occasional box for a chance at a desired rare.)
But, also, if it's only large figures that are visible... that means you'll still be hunting crazy-like for all the medium-sized rares (liches, mind flayers, rust monsters, etc).
I quite like the randomised minis, just because there is a level of anticipation in finding out what you are getting. That being said, the local gaming store opens up some booster packs and then displays the individual figurines. The packs over here are $20 Australian Dollars and you can buy the common singles for a dollar so if you want 8 goblins then it only costs you $8. I guess not all gaming stores do this though
However, I got most of my minis on Australia Ebay where I paid anyway from .20 cents to maybe $1 for commons that I really liked. I got exactly what I wanted and for cheaper than normal. This is a fairly good way if want you want is a common figurine although it is best to by in bulk obviously otherwise the postage costs are too expensive.
The way I read the announcement, it said two series are planned for 2009, each series to have 2 sets of martial, 2 sets of Arcance and 1 each of Primal and Divine.
So that's 12 martial in 2009.
3 more series are planned for 2010.
I'm glad somone finally read the statement properly! Jeez, it's annoying that people will complain about things without bothering to read the statements properly first!
Anyway, when was the last time WotC actually increased the price for D&D minis? I don't know how long it's been but if it's been more than 2 years then they were probably due for a price increase anyway.
) so we are paying a lot more for a very small amount of information in this case.As I read this thread I noticed something. Everyone is still talking in terms of common-uncommon-rare. If we are "paying" to get specific figures and have it be non-random then there is no room for language like that. This is kind of moot with the monster packs because they are still essentially random (and not encounter based
You can only see one of the five figures. So you'll be able to see the rare-quality large mini in the plastic bubble. But the four other minis (two commons, one uncommon, one rare) will not be visible.
Of course, what WotC does not say, is there are also very rare figures that are much, much more rare than regular rares. In the Star Wars mini line they just came out and admitted this with the "very rare" classification that sometimes replaced rares in a box. In the D&DM game sometimes you just need to open a buttload of boxes to find the elusive X.
Not all rares (or uncommons) are created equal.
I wonder why they don't do that. Or sell minis or magic cards on their website at all, even in packs?
I blame Hasbro. WHYYYYYYYY did they have to buy WoTC? WHY?
we don't even get any benefit form it as players (still a distinct lack of D&D at Wal-Mart...)
I've been a collector of the D&D minis since the Harbinger set and have a large percentage of the minis. There are a fair number of rares I don't have from across the sets but I have almost all of the commons and uncommons. Not long after the first few sets I started to buy the minis by the case which gave me a pretty good distribution without being swamped in commons. With the advent of sites that specialize in miniatures I've been able to buy my cases at 40% below MSRP. At that price my miniatures are very cost effective and it reduces some of the pain of the randomization. I can easily round out a set for the cost of only a few more boosters if I desire.
I'm mostly an RPG player though I do play the minis game sometimes.
I think WotC's change is fairly good but there is still room for improvement. Here is what I think would work best for them.
1. The PC sets with all visible miniatures are a great idea. Make it easy for players (who generally buy very few minis) to buy a good, high quality mini that looks like their character (class, race and gender).
2. Have theme sets which are non-random and feature the "big bads" and major NPCs of either the regular adventures (with possibly a few theme sets for super adventures) or which include in the set what the DM needs to run a "one-shot/one-night" game - the tiles, the adventure and the minis. These theme sets would not include minis for the PCs since those are covered by #1.
3. Random sets, possibly with a visible mini as it sounds like they plan to do, of only monsters or particularly villainous human(oid) sculpts. These sets would be half the size of today's sets (typically 30 minis in a non-huge set vs. 60) but would be of higher quality overall than the older sets and maybe 3/4 of the MSRP. So instead of a case listing at like $160 or whatever you get it for $120 (to make the math easy). The case would still get you all of the commons and uncommons and half the rares.
4. Icon sets of the gargantuan/colossal size monsters, in particular big dragons, the Tarrasque, maybe a Titan, etc. These would be non-random of course.
I'm guessing they're dropping the skirmish rules from the future minis cards to save money on the playtesting/development of the mini for warband construction. I personally wish this wasn't the case. I don't play the minis game much but it's fun sometimes and I'd like all of my minis to have playable stats. A trade off would be providing skirmish stats for the new minis free on the website but it would be better if they just kept putting them on the cards you get with the minis.
L