lions, tigers, and lizardfolk? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

lions, tigers, and lizardfolk?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
ronnie_pond
Nov 21, 2011 0:51:12 Maybe im just into the hole hybrid humanoid thing where the monster can be the hero. The noble feral maze fantasizing Minotaur along side the human cattle farmer in arms. but that is just the tip of the iceberg. what i ask my fellow people of the wildside happen to half dragon, Avarians, lizardfolk etc. as playable characters? Im not into homebrew and to hear that they released the playtest race Hengyokia in dragon issue 404. i thought wizard was in the right directions. i dont mind taking a debuff to smack someone in the face with a tail. i just want to be able to do so.
#2
pluisjen
Nov 21, 2011 1:07:45 Halfdragons are basically the Dragonborn. They're taking up the half man, half dragon thing even if not technically the spawn of a dragon and human by default (though it's easily refluffed)

I don't think lizardfolk are playable, although the Kobold has a monster write-up.

Avarians are probably problematic due to their flight.
#3
ronnie_pond
Nov 21, 2011 1:11:33 I do understand that. i just wish to see more of them.
#4
DavidArgall
Nov 21, 2011 2:55:43
Halfdragons are basically the Dragonborn. They're taking up the half man, half dragon thing even if not technically the spawn of a dragon and human by default (though it's easily refluffed)

      I'm not sure you can differ the mechanics enough to make it worth the effort, but the fluff should be fairly easy to manage. The dragonborn are a race that has been of mixed ancestry for many generations and would only rarely have any idea of any dragon they might be related to. Most have likely never seen a dragon. They are pretty much human with a leathery skin.
    The half-dragon is a close relative to a dragon. They have been raised in conditions much different from the dragonborn. They are much more likely to be wild and uncivilized.

I don't think lizardfolk are playable, although the Kobold has a monster write-up.

    Since we want to make them playable, but not Playable, it may not be easy to make them playable, but we should be able to make them a passable race some way. [We give credit to that thick hide and add +1 to all defenses, or just one or two. Or we...]

Avarians are probably problematic due to their flight.

    Given the introduction of the pixie, it seems they are getting over their paranoia about flight and will have rules to limit the utility of flight by the time they introduce them. [Maybe... All flying PC are weakened while flying. They have to concentrate on flying and can't swing as hard or cast a spell as efficiently or....]
#5
pluisjen
Nov 21, 2011 3:07:24 Myeah the Pixie kinda sorta works due to its Altitude limit of 1, but unless you want to play an Avian with a fear of heights, that's not really going to work for other races.

Odds are also good that if you search Races&Monsters or Homebrew&Houserules forum, you'll get some write-ups for various races. I'm pretty sure some people did a proper Kobold write-up and I wouldn't be surprised if you can find Lizardfolk as well.
#6
captainjanuary
Nov 21, 2011 7:29:25 There's always the kenku, maybe they'll get some support down the line.
#7
Scatterbrained
Nov 21, 2011 10:03:48
Im not into homebrew and to hear that they released the playtest race Hengyokia in dragon issue 404. i thought wizard was in the right directions. i dont mind taking a debuff to smack someone in the face with a tail. i just want to be able to do so.

Seems to me like homebrew could give you everything what you want with no waiting.

Maybe you should get "into" it.
#8
AbdulAlhazred
Nov 21, 2011 11:14:17 Yeah, I don't understand what MECHANICALLY would be different between a 'half dragon' and a dragonborn. They are both tough guys that can breath fire a bit. Everything else is fluff.

In general the majority of potential races can be built with fluff I suspect. And really if you count the writeups in the MMs there are a pretty wide selection of basic humanoid races to pick from. There are obviously some things you can't easily reproduce without a bit of home brewing, but for the majority of races you'd want to allow in the vast majority of campaigns? Things are pretty good.

Beyond that if someone REALLY wants to play something fairly outlandish you don't have to be terribly worried about it. Just generate a level 1 instance of that creature and slap a class on it. Give the character a couple minor traits and a minor action power of some kind that fits with their race and build reasonably well. Worst case it isn't going to be too crazy and you've got 30+ races as examples of powers that are reasonable. It is actually easier than general race design because you don't need to worry about how the race would work for any old character, just the ONE you are dealing with. There's after all not a vast probability players are going to want to play an imp all the time...
#9
complete4th
Nov 21, 2011 17:36:09
Refluff and homebrew seems to be your best option, Ronnie. I'm curious what you mean when you say you're not "into it." Are you not confident in making new stuff?
#10
incenjucar
Nov 22, 2011 0:36:06 Refluffing can take care of most of your needs, really, especially with so many dragon-transformation-based paragon paths. Proper half-dragons went away when they stopped treating dragons like reproductive shotguns. That said, I sort of wrote a large amount on the topic awhile ago: community.wizards.com/incenjucar/blog/20...
#11
ronnie_pond
Nov 22, 2011 22:28:54 I just like monsters they were playable in 3.5 so I just don't see why they can't write them into 4.0 or 4.0e. I don't like homebrew because i just don't care for making your own races. It doesn't bother me that other people do. I just choose not too. To answer one post there is the kenku, shifter, minotaur and other races yes I got that. And I have made a barbarian that followed the bear paragon path and became a bear humanoid while raging.
#12
the_ubbergeek
Nov 22, 2011 22:34:23
I just like monsters they were playable in 3.5 so I just don't see why they can't write them into 4.0 or 4.0e. I don't like homebrew because i just don't care for making your own races. It doesn't bother me that other people do. I just choose not too. To answer one post there is the kenku, shifter, minotaur and other races yes I got that. And I have made a barbarian that followed the bear paragon path and became a bear humanoid while raging.

Actually, they where not always so playable.

You forget an handicaping factor - level adjustement.
(And the traditionalism of some dms, who feels that orcs, gnolls, etc are not 'heroic'.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ronnie_pond Nov 21, 2011 0:51:12	Maybe im just into the hole hybrid humanoid thing where the monster can be the hero. The noble feral maze fantasizing Minotaur along side the human cattle farmer in arms. but that is just the tip of the iceberg. what i ask my fellow people of the wildside happen to half dragon, Avarians, lizardfolk etc. as playable characters? Im not into homebrew and to hear that they released the playtest race Hengyokia in dragon issue 404. i thought wizard was in the right directions. i dont mind taking a debuff to smack someone in the face with a tail. i just want to be able to do so.
#2 pluisjen Nov 21, 2011 1:07:45	Halfdragons are basically the Dragonborn. They're taking up the half man, half dragon thing even if not technically the spawn of a dragon and human by default (though it's easily refluffed) I don't think lizardfolk are playable, although the Kobold has a monster write-up. Avarians are probably problematic due to their flight.
#3 ronnie_pond Nov 21, 2011 1:11:33	I do understand that. i just wish to see more of them.
#4 DavidArgall Nov 21, 2011 2:55:43	Halfdragons are basically the Dragonborn. They're taking up the half man, half dragon thing even if not technically the spawn of a dragon and human by default (though it's easily refluffed) I'm not sure you can differ the mechanics enough to make it worth the effort, but the fluff should be fairly easy to manage. The dragonborn are a race that has been of mixed ancestry for many generations and would only rarely have any idea of any dragon they might be related to. Most have likely never seen a dragon. They are pretty much human with a leathery skin. The half-dragon is a close relative to a dragon. They have been raised in conditions much different from the dragonborn. They are much more likely to be wild and uncivilized. I don't think lizardfolk are playable, although the Kobold has a monster write-up. Since we want to make them playable, but not Playable, it may not be easy to make them playable, but we should be able to make them a passable race some way. [We give credit to that thick hide and add +1 to all defenses, or just one or two. Or we...] Avarians are probably problematic due to their flight. Given the introduction of the pixie, it seems they are getting over their paranoia about flight and will have rules to limit the utility of flight by the time they introduce them. [Maybe... All flying PC are weakened while flying. They have to concentrate on flying and can't swing as hard or cast a spell as efficiently or....]
#5 pluisjen Nov 21, 2011 3:07:24	Myeah the Pixie kinda sorta works due to its Altitude limit of 1, but unless you want to play an Avian with a fear of heights, that's not really going to work for other races. Odds are also good that if you search Races&Monsters or Homebrew&Houserules forum, you'll get some write-ups for various races. I'm pretty sure some people did a proper Kobold write-up and I wouldn't be surprised if you can find Lizardfolk as well.
#6 captainjanuary Nov 21, 2011 7:29:25	There's always the kenku, maybe they'll get some support down the line.
#7 Scatterbrained Nov 21, 2011 10:03:48	Im not into homebrew and to hear that they released the playtest race Hengyokia in dragon issue 404. i thought wizard was in the right directions. i dont mind taking a debuff to smack someone in the face with a tail. i just want to be able to do so. Seems to me like homebrew could give you everything what you want with no waiting. Maybe you should get "into" it.
#8 AbdulAlhazred Nov 21, 2011 11:14:17	Yeah, I don't understand what MECHANICALLY would be different between a 'half dragon' and a dragonborn. They are both tough guys that can breath fire a bit. Everything else is fluff. In general the majority of potential races can be built with fluff I suspect. And really if you count the writeups in the MMs there are a pretty wide selection of basic humanoid races to pick from. There are obviously some things you can't easily reproduce without a bit of home brewing, but for the majority of races you'd want to allow in the vast majority of campaigns? Things are pretty good. Beyond that if someone REALLY wants to play something fairly outlandish you don't have to be terribly worried about it. Just generate a level 1 instance of that creature and slap a class on it. Give the character a couple minor traits and a minor action power of some kind that fits with their race and build reasonably well. Worst case it isn't going to be too crazy and you've got 30+ races as examples of powers that are reasonable. It is actually easier than general race design because you don't need to worry about how the race would work for any old character, just the ONE you are dealing with. There's after all not a vast probability players are going to want to play an imp all the time...
#9 complete4th Nov 21, 2011 17:36:09	Refluff and homebrew seems to be your best option, Ronnie. I'm curious what you mean when you say you're not "into it." Are you not confident in making new stuff?
#10 incenjucar Nov 22, 2011 0:36:06	Refluffing can take care of most of your needs, really, especially with so many dragon-transformation-based paragon paths. Proper half-dragons went away when they stopped treating dragons like reproductive shotguns. That said, I sort of wrote a large amount on the topic awhile ago: community.wizards.com/incenjucar/blog/20...
#11 ronnie_pond Nov 22, 2011 22:28:54	I just like monsters they were playable in 3.5 so I just don't see why they can't write them into 4.0 or 4.0e. I don't like homebrew because i just don't care for making your own races. It doesn't bother me that other people do. I just choose not too. To answer one post there is the kenku, shifter, minotaur and other races yes I got that. And I have made a barbarian that followed the bear paragon path and became a bear humanoid while raging.
#12 the_ubbergeek Nov 22, 2011 22:34:23	I just like monsters they were playable in 3.5 so I just don't see why they can't write them into 4.0 or 4.0e. I don't like homebrew because i just don't care for making your own races. It doesn't bother me that other people do. I just choose not too. To answer one post there is the kenku, shifter, minotaur and other races yes I got that. And I have made a barbarian that followed the bear paragon path and became a bear humanoid while raging. Actually, they where not always so playable. You forget an handicaping factor - level adjustement. (And the traditionalism of some dms, who feels that orcs, gnolls, etc are not 'heroic'.)