Reasons why I think this would be a good idea:
1) The card game is already a goldmine for D&D ideas; at some point it's just a good idea to give gamers some statted-out faves (creatures, items, PC races, artifacts, "enchantments" (aka: rituals)).
2) A near-infinite series of Sourcebooks to buy, each one describing a Plane/material plane; or new powers; races; classes. Each Setting Plane could support a different style of Roleplay, like how Eberron covers the Five Nations (musketeers/James Bond), Xen'Drik (Indiana Jones). If the PCs like cities, go to Ravnica. Each could draw on the Core, *and* the M:tg book, *and* the splat book.
3) The art would be phenomenal, necessarily. They would be gorgeous books, and I'd like to have them in my collection.
On top of that, miniatures gaming: I'd love to buy some Ravnica figurines (the cyclops, the dragon, etc.), and the poster-maps could be weird and wonderful.
4) Planescape needs the Great Wheel, and the FR/Eberron settings have different cosmologies.
Magic: The Gathering, however, can handle the demand for plane-traveling adventures and bizarre creatures.
Moreover, it can handle the three tiers much better than a setting based on the Outer Planes (ie: the abyss, sigil): heroic can be for one world, as in regular settings. While there are Epic areas, any of the settings could serve as a foundation for the PCs, with travel between worlds easier to justify and work with when every Plane is an option; it also means a wider pallet for monsters.
5) The 5 Mana (and artifice magic) work really well with the 4 roles. Imagine the variations (Water: controller. Fire: Striker. White: leader/defender. Green: Defender (barbarians, etc.). Black: leader/controller (some sort of necromancer/animator/summoner combo).
I can also picture multi-color combos with multi-class feats. Not to mention the regular 4e classes, who could arguably still exist in the M:tg settings. Artificer should do, for example, as would fighter, warlord, etc. Cleric could work for White, with Channel Divinity feats for each Mana type (change the fluff, effectively).
6) Powers are all about specific effects, such that already there are "power cards" for 4e games to speed things along. This fits with M:TG playstyle, sort of. Heck, it's great for merchandizing options, beyond selling books.
7) The rules for Magic combat could either be fought using the cards, or using the MM (with an interesting new rules system to simplify). That would be an interesting chapter.
I 100% support the Planeswalker's setting, though hammering out the details could be a pain. Are we talking Tolaria here?
As an aside, it'd be more original than re-hashing older edition settings that have been done-and-done and can already be played without spending money on rules books. (ie: I've got vampires, I can do Ravenloft. I've got Warforged, I can do Eberron. I've got wizards with no constitution, I can do Dragonlance)
Other than psionics, pretty much any previously published setting can work well with the current rules as is (minor tweaking aside), and maybe a few Dragon articles.
M:tg is different enough I think it could warrant a campaign setting and players' guide, and adventurer's vault, not to mention a massive, massive MM.
Having said that, I would love to see an Alignment system based on the five colors (Because each color represents an Ideology more than anything else, really). So as a Paladin, you can be White, which is a Pally's preferred color, but a Blue Paladin (of Correlon or Ioun?) is also fine, a Black Paladin (of Sehanine?) a Red Paladin (of Kord or Avandra, depending on which way you want to go with it), and a Green Paladin (of Kord, Pelor, or most likely Melora).
I would love to see Ravnica: City of Guilds, all five Shards of Alara, and just to be really old school, I think that Homelands would be particularly D&D-ish. Mirrodin doesn't really hold my interest, and although Dominaria is the most developed Magic Setting, I find it bland and Generic most of the time. Ooh, Kamigawa would be a nifty setting. It would also bring a variety of interesting races to D&D. Two varieties of Rabbit folk. :p
to learn more about Magics color pie, because I love advertising my favorite game rather shamelessly, check out these Articles written by Mark Rosewater about the philosophy of the five colors. That article is the one about Red, and it contains links to the other four. The main thing I love about Magics color system is that it breeds complex conflict, without any one side being the good guy or the bad guy. White wants whats best for everyone, and it is willing to impose restrictions on everyone to accomplish this. Red hates restrictions, and believes everyone should have freedom - for better or worse. Blue craves knowledge, and wants to create the perfect world - Green believes the world is already perfect, and the only thing you have to learn is your place in the world.
Also, rather than let PC's be Planeswalkers, I think most Planeswalkers should be NPC's or villains. PW's have the ability to visit other planes, and this is pretty awesome, but other than that they aren't necessarily all that powerful. Also, they are supposedly extremely rare.
Also, rather than let PC's be Planeswalkers, I think most Planeswalkers should be NPC's or villains. PW's have the ability to visit other planes, and this is pretty awesome, but other than that they aren't necessarily all that powerful. Also, they are supposedly extremely rare.
Well, so are PCs. They're the perfect people to *be* Planewalkers, or rather at Epic levels (or even Paragon paths). Otherwise the game takes on a Chosen of Mystra feel.
Nice articles! This is what I mean: there's lots of fluff out there that fans are writing as if it were an rpg setting. Why waste that?
I don't know what Chosen of Mystra is. *Shrug* I just felt that allowing the PCs to pop in and out of a plane is too powerful an ability to offer a PC without some significant restrictions. Unrestricted, that Cliff isn't really an obstacle. Just pop into the Blind Eternities for a split second and reappear on the other side. Also, how does one follow a Planeswalker? Perhaps Planeswalking could be offered in the form of a Ritual that involves the whole party. This way, it will be harder to use it to negate combats and skill challenges, even if there is little cost component.
I've always been interested in something of the sort (even though I gave up Magic a decade ago and gave all my cards away), but I understand that there's some sort of corporate policy against mixing properties like that. Shame, because I'd rather like to see a Dreamblade RPG as well...
Nothing's stopping people from homebrewing their own stuff, though. Is there some sort of repository of information about MtG settings, or a wiki or some such?
This Wiki article on the MTG:Salvation wiki has some information too, but I don't think it has enough for a real flavor junky like myself.
And of course, Wikipedia itself.
Rei Nakazawa Usually writes an article about the plane in which each settakes place prior to the release of that set.
Savor the Flavor is a series of articles about general Magic flavor, which frequently has to do with the planes and their inhabitants.
The article series was recently renamed. it used to be called Taste the Magic. What's weird is that This link that I made by messing around with the URL seems to be the only way to reach this archive, because all previous Taste the Magics have been renamed Savor the Flavor, yet they aren't included in the StF archive.
Each set for the past several years has had an associated novel, and most recently it was A Planeswalkers guide to Alara, which is probably the most helpful for the purposes of making Alara a campaign setting. The rest are all fiction set on that plane, which is good but not necessarily helpful for this purpose.
Phyrexia.com used to be a good place to go, but it clearly hasn't been updated in years.
Mtg:Salvation is an active forum filled with Magic enthusiasts who, in theory, are helpful. I just posted a thread over there asking this exact question, you'll probably recognize my username.
And finally, the most obvious place is just a couple clicks away. The Magic forums on Wizards.com. I'm not going to bother linking you, if you can't find it from this page you need more help than I can give you. :p
Granted, I think ChrisTheS is likely onto something: maybe the Magic R&D have a rivalry with the D&D R&D, the sort of thing where they give each other cut-eye when they see each other in the halls. Heh, or maybe the Magic people make insulting cards of the D&D staff ("+1/+2?! Why, I'm at least +4/+3! Ooooh, blast you Rosewater!!!"); while at the same time the D&Ders use the various MM books to draw ironic parallels between the monsters and the magic staffers ("hey, relax; it's no reason to get so worked up" "oh, like you know how it feels when someone makes fun of *your* prehensile tail (sniff, sob).")
Something has to be done.
I did a 3.x campaign with the Ravnica guilds as the major players in the world. It was a pretty high fantasy game, even for DND, but I never did come up with rules, just flavor.
Llorwyn would be a fantastic model for the Feywild: verdant realm with magical creatures; and a really nasty darkside.
Currently my homebrew setting is going to have that: the Feywild is based on Seasons and Eladrin Courts (sun, moon, stars, as subraces). The activities of the Feywild Courts affect the natural cycles of the mortal realms.
Come to think of it, I'll have to check out Arcane Power and the PHB2 for new powers to mine, with an eye towards making (Mana-type) Mage as a class/role homebrew for now. Hmm...
Ravnica alone could give you a full fluff book, and maybe a Splat book with neat stuff for each guild. This could work for any block that had it's own world feel to it.
Major races would get their own books similar to the Draconomicon, with perhaps more crunch.
Artifacts would work like the Adventurer's Vault perhaps, where they form new items that PC's could use, or villains could use against the Party!
Which means they could do a lot of them in big, fat books! I mean the super-books like Arcana Evolved, or Magic Core books like the FR player's guide and campaign setting books. Personally, I think a Campaign Setting book could be a bit more full than the 4e FR one turned out to be; a celebration of a setting, like the 3e one. Granted, it's the start of the 4e setting, so they have less of the old continuity to work with (rather than digesting 20 years before 4e of Ed Greenwood et al, scribbling away like crazy folks).
I think a M:tg setting book, though, could really pack a lot of DM crunch: the various planes described (Dominaria (and it's history); Alara (6 realms); Llorwyn/Shadowmoor; Ravnica; and the others; and MotP info on making M:tg planes of existence); and piles of monsters that exist on each. A gazetteer and as thick an MM as can be made (including Artifacts and Traps as well).
There's enough cool fantasy stuff that the book could be as cool as the FRCS was for 3e.
Honestly, I think it would be much more interesting if the D&D and Magic R&D teams got together to jointly design a world which would be the setting for both a D&D Setting Book and a Magic the Gathering Block, which would introduce D&Disms to Magic and Magicisms to D&D.
I mean, to take an example, look at the races. You can pick five random uniquely D&D races, assign them Magic colors, and integrate them into the Magic side of the setting. Meanwhile, you pick five uniquely Magic races, one of each color, and give them a full write-up as playable races for D&D.
For example, for the D&D-to-Magic side:
White: Not sure...
Green: Eladrin
Red: Dragonborn
Black: Shadar-Kai, maybe Tiefling
Blue: Something Psionic? Gith maybe?
Artifact: Warforged (maybe colored White rather than colorless, to differentiate them from golems and the like)
And for the Magic-to-D&D side:
White: Kithkin or Loxodon
Green: Leonin
Red: Flamekin
Black: Not sure...
Blue: Vedalkyn
Also, classic D&D monsters like the Beholder might get a Magic card, and iconic Magic creatures like the Saproling would get D&D stats (a low-level minion?). If done well, this would add some variety to Magic and create a setting perfect for combining traditional D&D play with Magic elements.
Also, on the Planeswalker issue... It would be a severe mistake to create a class of characters that are inherently better than PCs as a state the PCs cannot obtain. There at least needs to be option that a PC can become a Planeswalker. It would be a pretty good Paragon Path and/or Epic Destiny, in my opinion.
But for a monster that is uniquely magic-flavored, and not connected to any particular color, try Slivers. Mindwhip Sliver, Muscle Sliver, Talon Sliver, Sliver Queen
If I could use my old Magic Cards it would be the sweetest game ever. But it wont but it will still be fun playing in a Magic setting. There is just so many different creatures, characters, and (another C word...) content that Magic has made move the years that it would be a waste not to use it. And it waay not use it to make a completely new D&D setting? There will always be those people that will say that WotC was being lazy and not making something new, as they wait for Grayhawk mark IV to be released.
You know there are those people out there.
The thing of it is though is that Magic is focused on Summoning minions to do your bitting so how can they make the other classes look just as good as the class everyone would want to be playing in the setting, Summoners? More or less, every one will want to be a Summoner, I would. Then you would need to have a Summoner for each color as well.
Basically, the PC would decide at creation what colours he would use for his power source(s), then his role. They would then pick (or construct) his powers from the guidelines given.
Token creatures would be minions.
I think most of the support beyond the initial books would be released as internet based support...
- Where does the Aether fit in? Should it be another name for 4e's Astral or is it something else and if something else hows does it interact with the Astral?
- Can a Planeswalker take along other party members with them? I can easilt see planeswalking handle as a ritual but does the whole party need to be a planeswalkers or just one and that member bring along his friends?
- Where does the Elemental Chaos fit in?
- How does the Feywild and Shadowfell fit in? Are they unique to the 4e world or are they characteristics of all natural planes.
- How exactly are planeswalkers handled? A new race? A class? a Paragon Class? A Template? I think I favor template but not 100% convinced it's the way to go.
More questions/thought to follow...
Currently, as of Time Spiral, I read that Planeswalkers are "less" than they once were. Urza and others are kinda like D&D deities, but those days are gone. Now it's more of a trait. Ergo: Powerful ones as villains, others can be PCs or recutting antagonists.
Alternatively, if no one wants to be a planeswalker (read: the party cleric) then there can also be Artifacts lying around, like a network of portals or a cube that grants passage in downtime.
Settings/Planes: I think they could replace staples like the Abyss, or rather every layer would be an alternate dimension. So Llorwyn would *be* the Feywild, as could other planes. Grixis could be the abyss, so could that mechanical one Urza blew up.
Thus we wouldn't need the Astral Sea or the Elemental Chaos, per se. There wouldn't be realms o' the gods, but there could be hard-to-reach planes run by Elder Planeswalkers (who could replace the D&D deities, and be the end-point of PC epic destinies, when lvl 30 is reached).
5 Power Sources: These could replace Arcane and Divine, sort of. Well, work with. The Cleric could already be seen as White, the Mage could be mostly Red. However, this would open the doors for new classes for each role for each power source. Like alternate versions of current casters, like how Psionics has Psions rather than Mages. Meh.
The Aether is just a word for the space between worlds, I think. It's a sort of catch all term that was first used to tell people where these dag gone summoned critters were coming from. The Astral realm is where the Gods hang out, right? I don't know if they are really the same thing. If the Astral is where your Dag gone summoned critters come from, then they are probably the same thing and a little reflavoring can go a long way.
"- Can a Planeswalker take along other party members with them? I can easilt see planeswalking handle as a ritual but does the whole party need to be a planeswalkers or just one and that member bring along his friends?"
In Magic, the Player is a Planeswalker. That is why he can summon all these cool things and know so much more than everyone else and treat living beings as so much pieces of cardboard who can be torn from their lives and made to attack and block and get zapped by lightning on a whim. So originally, they made Planeswalkers feature rediculous amounts of power, such that they are essentially gods. If someone worships a God somewhere, that God is probably a Planeswalker. In the past couple of years, they figured out that Planeswalkers are a marketable concept, so they had to make some that were low enough power level as to be printed on cards and summoned by players, Even though the players themselves are planeswalkers. So, the "New" Planeswalker is not really more powerful than anyone else, he just has the ability to travel between a few planes, and this massive leap in knowledge (there are other planes, what cool spells are on that plane, Etc) gives him a leg up on magic users who are not Planeswalkers. Planeswalker cards do not represent your total control over another being of the same power level as you, they are sort of like a Gift card, where the PW offers these abilities at these costs, and they don't have "Toughness", they have "Loyalty". When their Loyalty runs out, they don't die, they ditch you. Old Planeswalkers could do basically whatever they want, so yes they could take anyone to any plane. New Planeswalkers would have to be quite practiced to be able to do it.
"- Where does the Elemental Chaos fit in?
- How does the Feywild and Shadowfell fit in? Are they unique to the 4e world or are they characteristics of all natural planes."
Does the Elemental Chaos have to fit in? I thought it was another plane, not necessarily connected to the one the PC's are on. And the Feywild and Shadowfell probably should not be connected to every single plane the PC's visit, that would be a little weird after a while.
"- How exactly are planeswalkers handled? A new race? A class? a Paragon Class? A Template? I think I favor template but not 100% convinced it's the way to go."
I think ED is the way to go. Heroic Tier characters should probably not leave their home plane, Paragon Tier ones might have a Sliders-esque experience or find a Ritual/Item/NPC that can facilitate travel, and Epic characters can just do it themselves. I might be crazy though.
"5 Power Sources: These could replace Arcane and Divine, sort of. Well, work with. The Cleric could already be seen as White, the Mage could be mostly Red. However, this would open the doors for new classes for each role for each power source. Like alternate versions of current casters, like how Psionics has Psions rather than Mages. Meh."
I don't think we need to replace the current power sources. The colors are as much ideologies as anything else. They don't have to be represented mechanically in order to get the idea across.
For instance, the color White loves Order. It wants to do what is best for the group, and it feels that selfishness is to be scorned. So it fields a lot of Paladins and Clerics. Bahamut and Erathis represent Core White values. But there's nothing stopping a Cleric of a red-flavored God from being a red Cleric. Red values freedom for everyone, and if two free people disagree, let them fight it out. If this causes some chaos, Red is fine with that. What red HATES is Rules. So Red and White are naturally enemies. But Avandra, a Good God, tells her followers to pursue freedom and help others do the same. Fortune favors the bold, so go out and be the change you want to see in the world. A very red methodology. Red is also all about following your passion, so Sehanine has a bit of Red to her as well.
Wizards I would see as mainly Blue, because Blue believes that anyone can get what they want if they only knew how, so Blue seeks to educate himself as much as possible. Ioun is a very Blue god, and Erathis' focus on technology makes him lean a bit Blue also. Warlocks, on the other hand, don't seek knowledge, just power, making them closer to being Black. Black believes the world is inherently selfish. Everyone has exactly one reliable advocate: Themselves, and in this way, the world is fair. People who believe in White ideals are just naive fools who encourage weakness by defending the weak. The PHB doesn't really have a God who exemplifies Black ideals, but Sehanine comes closest.
So, if you want to make 20 Classes, one for each role per color, then by all means please do! I hope it turns out awesome. In fact, I would love to help. But I certainly don't think an M:tG setting needs them in order to be viable. The colors represent Motives as much as they do power sources. On the other hand, how does one make a Black Defender? The Defender job is very unselfish, which Black considers naive. Perhaps a Controller/Defender who summons Minion Skeletons to do the defending job and uses Standard, Move, and Minor actions to make them get back up and attack and summon new ones could defend without putting himself in harms way.
Oh, and Green. Melora and Raven Queen are Green deities through and through, no doubt about it. Green believes that the world is perfect the way it was made, so any attempt to perfect it is a waste of time.
This is a big deal. I never used to touch Magic because my perception that it lacked any kind of story really bothered me. As a game of two guys flipping cards and smacktalking each other it wasn't too thrilling. It didn't seem to really represent anything in particular--just a vague sort of wizards duel involving different monster and spell cards that would attack one player or another and drain his "life points".
Now that I can see the story behind it all, the planeswalkers and planes, the philosophical underpinnings of the colors, the references to real unfolding events and storylines. I have to say, it's winning me over.
The only thing that still really bothers me is that all you can do in Magic is fight another planeswalker. I don't know if I need a full tie-in to D&D--I fully understand the difficulty involved in competing with your own company. I would like to see some new ways to play the card game--games that involve exploration or accomplishing quests, ways that you could use the cards that exist to create full characters rather than just hands of combat-optimized cards. That sort of thing. It would be great if the novels and articles didn't have to be pure backstory totally divorced from the game--but that in the card game you could get closer to actually telling some of those kinds of stories.
Maybe something mechanically less like a game of Gin-Rummy and more like an interactive spread of Tarot cards? Less about winning and more about interpreting. Certainly my friends and I have been mulling that over alot.
Commander Greven il-Vec
Coercion
Gerrard's Battle Cry
No Quarter
Sadistic Glee
Sudden Impact (The mutinous First Mate fires at Greven)
Abandon Hope
Broken Fall
Repentance (Later, on the badguy ship)
Vhati il-dal
Diabolic Edict
Fevered Convulsions
And later...
Smite
Scapegoat
Here is the sad tale of Crovax, Selenia, and Mirri.
Infernal Tribute (Volrath wants to recruit Crovax, but Crovax refused)
zombie Scavengers (so they killed his family)
Shattered Crypt (and Crovax joined the goodguys)
Angelic Protector (But Crovax has a guardian angel)
Selenia, Dark Angel (but Volrath has influence over her)
Dread of Night
Enfeeblement
Whispers of the Muse
Endless Scream
Provoke (Selenia attacks, and Mirri endures a wound protecting Crovax)
Death Stroke (Crovax kills his angel)
Convalescence
Dizzying Gaze
Curiosity
Slaughter
Later ...
Ascendant Evincar
Dark Triumph
So, if you want to make 20 Classes, one for each role per color, then by all means please do! I hope it turns out awesome. In fact, I would love to help. But I certainly don't think an M:tG setting needs them in order to be viable. The colors represent Motives as much as they do power sources. On the other hand, how does one make a Black Defender?
I just figured it out!
1) Martial Power: imagine that as a Magic sourcebook. Basically a list of powers for each role, rather than PHB ones. So someone could make a Blue controller Wizard, or a Blue Warlock, or a Blue Rogue (somehow, other than motives and personality). Additionally, there could be Utility Spells usable by anyone affiliated with a given color.
The reason this would work is that not all planeswalkers are Mages. I could have a Leonin Barbarian who's got connections to "the Green", and can, like, do rituals related to green, but otherwise he's a primal barbarian.
Also, you're right: if someone is a cleric connected to Green, that's believable. However, I'd argue that some classes *shouldn't have certain powers IF THE PC is aligned a particular way (ie: Black Cleric casting radient stuff? maybe not). Ergo, a book of replacement options would be solid gold.
2) Black Defender: Death Knight? Think eeevil paladin.
3) I don't know that the Colors are Alignments in the way good/evil are. I don't think they'd replace them, though I can see them obviously affecting the roleplay aspect and motivations.
I think, rather, they're like Factions in Planescape: the PCs can work together, and they affect their outlook on life, but there can be good or evil members of each color. Also mixes!
Maybe the Colors could be like Zodiac signs: you just have one. Or, perhaps, you get one and get rituals related to it; and additional colors count as additional Feats. (shrugs)
Mr. Cleaver, you is crazy. Magic had a deep storyline for many years, but Wizards soon realized that randomized playing cards was a very poor method of telling a chronological story. Here is one such story told via magic cards: Just read the flavor text on the right side of each card image, and view the art of each card.
Sure. I understand there's always been a story, it's just that until recently it's had nothing to do with the game. It still doesn't have much, but the interface between the setting and what's going on in the game is something the developers have finally started talking about--at least enough that I get it now.
That said, I'm not so much interested in reading through a slew of cards to try and piece together the fiction they're from. That's not really the kind of interacting with the story I'm hoping for here.
That said, a 4e adaption would be fun--but I would hate it to compete with the other game products their making. A side project (along the lines of what was done with Diablo II) would be a fun thing, a single book to give people some broad setting introduction and some setting specific races and classes.
Not sure how well the current rules would adapt to making planeswalkers--you'd almost want a quick and dirty guide for converting the crunch from cards to powers. Planeswalkers are about sifting through hundreds of spells to pick the sixty or so you want to use--whereas powers are much more tightly constrained to a couple of at wills and a small handful other powers. I'm not sure a standard Wizard or Warlock would cut it as a stand in for a Planeswalker.
I thought about a Black Defender some and I think that a Pit Fighter flavor would work for it. His main shtick is that in a world ruled by survival of the fittest, the Black Defender views himself as the fittest of the fit. Now, why does he constantly put himself on the line for the sake of his fellow party members? Perhaps he is a mercenary. Capitalism is a very Black methodology. Or perhaps he is testing himself. Either way, he is not above using dirty tricks, like Poisoned weapons, concealed weapons, and death magic.
Colors aren't exactly alignments, but I feel they are close enough that they can be used that way, and create a sensation that no one is truly evil, and no one is truly good, but everyone has the potential to go either way if they take their ideals too far. White is usually the good guy color, but in a Fascist, Socialist nation, the Red and Black freedom-fighting characters could be the underdog good guys.
Mr. Cleaver: Yeah, posting a bunch of links to magic cards is probably not the most effective way to get a message across. But it was an entertaining way to burn a few hours. :p It occurs to me that after announcing that playing cards was a poor medium for telling a story, I then told you a story through playing cards. So ... Yeah.
I absolutely concur with your #1.
:D
As an aside, I'm blown away by Martial Power. It's virtually all crunch!!! My issue is that I'm the DM, so I'll never get to use it until one of my PCs tries their hand at GMing (and we can't have that, now can we, precious? (gollum)).
But yeah, it is totally the direction I could see a Magic sourcebook taking. Add in races, an Items section (portals, the weatherlight, etc.), rituals, and "regional feats"/backgrounds for the various settings (with some talk about how PCs would understand the world, and setting changes for dragons, goblins, etc. from D&D), and you're good to go for players.
I'm thinking a campaign setting book would have to have more crunch to really hit this one out of the park. A good half of it should be entries like the 3e FRCS: regions, and then different parts of it (the dale lands, the underdark, the inner sea, etc.); except here we'd have different planes. Also a brief history of the Magic sets and their storylines.
The second half should be solid Crunch. Like, 100 pages of monsters, traps and artifacts (in that order). Things I could use in FR or my home campaign (which is *so* much more useful than just setting fluff. I may not read the current FRCS, but I will go over the FRPG 4e because of the transfer of races/classes for my homebrew setting).
I thought about a Black Defender some and I think that a Pit Fighter flavor would work for it. His main shtick is that in a world ruled by survival of the fittest, the Black Defender views himself as the fittest of the fit. Now, why does he constantly put himself on the line for the sake of his fellow party members? Perhaps he is a mercenary. Capitalism is a very Black methodology. Or perhaps he is testing himself. Either way, he is not above using dirty tricks, like Poisoned weapons, concealed weapons, and death magic.
Nice.
I think a black Striker could be an assassin (like 3e PrC, not just kills for money). That makes sense: poison, "death magic" and such.
Capitalism: I'm at a point where I can see it as neutral, but different people use it in different ways. I can see some capitalists (small entrepreneurs, for example) as very Red, with weedling money-lenders as black, and massive loan companies and governments as white.
But I agree with what you're saying. It does make a nifty alternative to the alignment system, though I think it's more complicated (considering mixed-color creatures).
Mr. Cleaver: Yeah, posting a bunch of links to magic cards is probably not the most effective way to get a message across. But it was an entertaining way to burn a few hours. :p It occurs to me that after announcing that playing cards was a poor medium for telling a story, I then told you a story through playing cards. So ... Yeah.
There was a book about the Weatherlight once. I was going to "come back and buy it" years back, but it was gone. Really cool art. I wonder if it was made into a novel.
Honestly, my one dislike for the basic fluff and setting of Magic is that it is a bit too obsessed with the color wheel and absolute symmetry within the wheel. Well, it is also obsessed with planeswalkers, but that is more reasonable.
Anyways, in my opinion the ideal setting would let you use the same kinds of characters that you can use in normal D&D, and merely add options that are more unique to Magic. Meanwhile, the Magic side of things would have its usual options, but have some of the unique character of D&D added onto it. Either way, I would like to see a Magic setting built around the potential for an infinite variety of adventure (necessary for D&D settings), rather than a singular story (like they usually are).
I'd do one myself, but I'm not nearly knowledgeable enough about any of the game's settings - even when I played, my understanding of the fluff was pretty much limited to the names Urza, Mishra, Lim-dul, and Kjeldor.
Thought? Suggestions?
I think for my tastes I like to see not a hybrid system but more along the lines of fitting in elements of MtG into 4e. Basically the Magic notion of Planeswalking, Multiverse and maybe the Aether. In regards to Planeswalking and the spark, I think one way of doing it would be how they handled the Plaguescarred in the Forgotten Realms. For those not familiar with this concept I'll summarize (real generally) the PC has this magical scar which is a prerequisite for the Student of the Plague multiclass feat. That feat gives them an ability and then qualify for the Novice Power, Acolyte Power and Adept Power feats. They then have an entire class like list of powers to choose from with those feats and/or multiclassing paragon. So to transform that into Planeswalking and MtG, lets say a PC has the spark (same as the spellscar) They then take something called the Planeswalker Initiate feat (just a suggestion for the name) This gives them the ability to planeswalk (or maybe access to a restricted ritual called planeswalking) and a couple other abilities. They can then multiclass as normal for 4e with Planeswalking powers.
Thought? Suggestions?
Good idea, this way you could easily create Garruk (I think that's his name) who is a barbarian with green magic or the fire girl who seems like a rogue with red magics.
Personally I think that the saga rules might make for a better system for MtG although I could see it working in a way similar to the 4e spellscarred from FR.
Good idea, this way you could easily create Garruk (I think that's his name) who is a barbarian with green magic or the fire girl who seems like a rogue with red magics.
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Yeah, good idea!
Although options for Blue-focused spellcasters (enchantments, disenchants, etc.) vs. options for Red-focused spellcasters (standard wizard package right now, and warlock) would be really great.
Arcane Power will probably have loads of stuff for this, come to think of it. Manual of the Planes, too.
TwinBahamut: I don't think the settings are built around a single story. Well, most of them aren't. Kamigawa was, but I like to not count that one because it kind of blew. Also, yes, there is a lot of symmetry in Magic. This is because Magic players are OCD, and Wizards has found that symmetry sells better than Asymmetry.
The Brother's War/Urza/Phyrexia/Weatherlight Saga, the Mirari Saga (which seems to continue into Mirrodin), the story of how Dominara got torn apart and then saved from calamity on Time Spiral, Kamigawa's plot progression, the Lorwyn/Shadomoor progression, the upcoming story of the reunification of Alara...
As far as I am aware, Ravnica is practically the only block built around describing a setting, rather than portraying how a particular plane and its central characters progress through some kind of calamity or radical transformation. In other words, a world is always different between the beginning and the ending of any particular block, making them unstable and problematic for running campaigns in, because following constantly shifting canon focused on NPCs is a headache for DMs.
So, while your complaints are perfectly valid and I won't try to dissuade you from feeling that way, Generally when a setting is established in Magic it begins with a feeling that it has existed this way for thousands of years prior to the beginning of the story they print in the book. Alara, for instance, used to be one plane, but Thousands of years ago, it was split into five. Now, after having existed in their seperate state for thousands of years, the five planes are beginning to come back together for some reason. Makes for a good tale when your primary movers and shakers are Planeswalkers, and are able to not only know whats happening but have a chance to stop or accelerate it if they desire, but not so much for your Heroic Tier characters. That's fine for Magic players, because they aren't down there making things happen, they're watching passively.
Basically, I agree that trying to follow the magic storyline while your quest is concurrent in the setting would be extremely problematic and not worth the effort. So, if I were to use a Magic setting in a campaign I would ignore the overarching story and just let it be business as usual on the plane, except for what my PCs are doing.
@Fireinthedust: Lets just go make a thread in the appropriate forum and homebrew a pile of options. I bet WotC would prefer to keep their seperate IPs seperate anyway.
EDIT: THIS IS THE LINK!
I've put some thoughts in.