My second thought: Any sufficiently advanced Magic is indistinguishable from Technology.
Edited to add the word "intro", since I am not nearly so lucky as to be able to get the real thing early.
My first thought when reading the Eberron Player's Guide (as someone who has only the faintest of ideas of Eberron's place in the D&D world) is that they've taken Steam Punk and made it based on Magic--Magic Punk.
My second thought: Any sufficiently advanced Magic is indistinguishable from Technology.
How did you get a chance to read it?
Are the Kalashtar in the book?
Are Dopplegangers in the book?
How do Dragonborn fit into the world?
How do Dragonmarks work?
Is there a melee build for the Artificer?
If you are referring to the 3.5 book, then:
Hello! WRONG FORUM!
There is the Ebberon Player's Guide introduction for 4th ed up right now. It's two pages.
My first thought when reading the Eberron Player's Guide (as someone who has only the faintest of ideas of Eberron's place in the D&D world) is that they've taken Steam Punk and made it based on Magic--Magic Punk.
My second thought: Any sufficiently advanced Magic is indistinguishable from Technology.
The term is actually Dungeon Punk :D
He's able to see the free previews that technically are up for tomorrow but commonly go up early, usually in the late night of the day preceding said updates.
There is the Ebberon Player's Guide introduction for 4th ed up right now. It's two pages.
But that isn't what he said, or wrote, actually.
My first thought when reading the Eberron Player's Guide (as someone who has only the faintest of ideas of Eberron's place in the D&D world) is that they've taken Steam Punk and made it based on Magic--Magic Punk.
My second thought: Any sufficiently advanced Magic is indistinguishable from Technology.
It's a common misconception that Eberron was ever "steam punk". In fact, Eberron has always aimed to replicate the approximate feel and time-period normally associated with Steam Punk settings, except with magic in place of technology.
In Eberron, science is only used for conjuring cheap tricks to entertain children; it's magic that drives development.
It's a common misconception that Eberron was ever "steam punk". In fact, Eberron has always aimed to replicate the approximate feel and time-period normally associated with Steam Punk settings, except with magic in place of technology.
In Eberron, science is only used for conjuring cheap tricks to entertain children; it's magic that drives development.
Yeh one of my players doesn't like Ebberron or anything associated with it because he thinks its "Steam-Punk". I havn't actually read much material on ebberron but it looks preatty sweet.
But that isn't what he said, or wrote, actually.
True, but it was pretty late at night too. Sorry. I meant to say "intro" as well.
The term is actually Dungeon Punk :D
That sounds much better than Magic Punk. Thanks!
The name punk is given to a genre that expresses certain ideas, usually associated with the punk subculture. Steampunk, for example, is about expressing individualism in an age with sterile, standardized electronic devices. It's about reclaiming a personal relationship with the machine, and fighting back the Priesthood of Technology with a DIY mentality (combined with anti-government, anarchist overtones).
I love Eberron, but it's not PUNK. It might be Magitech, but it's not Magicpunk, it's not Steampunk, it's not anything punk. For some reason, people are just applying the word "punk" to talk about a certain change in aesthetic.
And when you start talking about a subculture as if it were only an aesthetic, you make it vapid, and rob it of what makes it valuable.
This whole thing is driving me insane. None of this is actually ANYTHING-punk.
The name punk is given to a genre that expresses certain ideas, usually associated with the punk subculture. Steampunk, for example, is about expressing individualism in an age with sterile, standardized electronic devices. It's about reclaiming a personal relationship with the machine, and fighting back the Priesthood of Technology with a DIY mentality (combined with anti-government, anarchist overtones).
I love Eberron, but it's not PUNK. It might be Magitech, but it's not Magicpunk, it's not Steampunk, it's not anything punk. For some reason, people are just applying the word "punk" to talk about a certain change in aesthetic.
And when you start talking about a subculture as if it were only an aesthetic, you make it vapid, and rob it of what makes it valuable.
Thank you, I've been wondering what the word 'punk' has to do with anything for quite some time.
Reminder to self: don't post when not fully awake.
Well, I've certainly screwed up that post--I forgot the word "intro", I used "magic" instead of "dungeon" as my descriptor, and I completely misused the word "punk". And my post didn't even have a real point. It's a wonder I was understood at all.
Reminder to self: don't post when not fully awake.
Haha, don't worry about it... I was just being grumpy.
And you're far from the first person to use that terminology.
This whole thing is driving me insane. None of this is actually ANYTHING-punk.
The name punk is given to a genre that expresses certain ideas, usually associated with the punk subculture. Steampunk, for example, is about expressing individualism in an age with sterile, standardized electronic devices. It's about reclaiming a personal relationship with the machine, and fighting back the Priesthood of Technology with a DIY mentality (combined with anti-government, anarchist overtones).
I love Eberron, but it's not PUNK. It might be Magitech, but it's not Magicpunk, it's not Steampunk, it's not anything punk. For some reason, people are just applying the word "punk" to talk about a certain change in aesthetic.
And when you start talking about a subculture as if it were only an aesthetic, you make it vapid, and rob it of what makes it valuable.
But cyberpunk and steampunk are genres, not subcultures. Some people might emulate them, but they aren't the origin of the terms.
Cyberpunk came first, and is a fictional genre categorised by dystopian futures where techology rules (the cyber- part), often characterised by anti-heroes and malcontents in the starring roles (the -punk part). This genre is the origin of the -punk suffix, and while it displays many of the ideologies of the punk subculture, the other genres which branch from it do not.
Steampunk, for example, has very little to do with 'punk' at all. It is a genre characterised by settings where steam power is prominent, but with an injection of fantasy or sci-fi. It's aesthetic is often pseudo-Victorian, and it doesn't display much of the dystopian side of cyberpunk. So steampunk is a term based on the word 'cyberpunk', but not on the word 'punk'. It's nothing at all to do with a relationship with machines, or DIY...a subculture may have emerged based on steampunk's aesthetic, but the aesthetic is the originator of the term.
Dungeonpunk is a pretty new term, so you won't find it used much, but it builds on steampunk rather than cyberpunk. It's a fantasy aethetic characterised by magic as a prominent power source, often with a return to the gritty feel of cyberpunk that a lot of steampunk skipped. Eberron fits all the traits perfectly.
The language and genres have evolved since the term 'cyberpunk' was originally coined, that's all. Sure 'steampunk' and 'dungeonpunk' have very little to do with 'punk', and it makes the labels a little strange, but it doesn't make them wrong.
But cyberpunk and steampunk are genres, not subcultures. Some people might emulate them, but they aren't the origin of the terms.
This is correct, but they are genres characterized by both aesthetics and ideas. Much like a subculture.
Steampunk, for example, has very little to do with 'punk' at all. It is a genre characterised by settings where steam power is prominent, but with an injection of fantasy or sci-fi. It's aesthetic is often pseudo-Victorian, and it doesn't display much of the dystopian side of cyberpunk. So steampunk is a term based on the word 'cyberpunk', but not on the word 'punk'. It's nothing at all to do with a relationship with machines, or DIY...a subculture may have emerged based on steampunk's aesthetic, but the aesthetic is the originator of the term.
See, this isn't entirely true. Edisonades really are what came first, and a few authors with grander visions were drawn to the aesthetic. From there, ideas evolved, such as the ones you originally quoted. There are plenty of examples in published works, anthologies, and online publications where this is very prevalent. You'll also find that the trend in Steampunk writing (I've been doing my homework for about a year or two) is to be more focused on the ideas, because many Steampunk purists (all about the anarchy) are getting tired of people who wear top-hats to conventions and give themselves the 'Steampunk' label. It's high school kids turning 'Steampunk' into the next 'Goth'.
Dungeonpunk is a pretty new term, so you won't find it used much, but it builds on steampunk rather than cyberpunk. It's a fantasy aethetic characterised by magic as a prominent power source, often with a return to the gritty feel of cyberpunk that a lot of steampunk skipped. Eberron fits all the traits perfectly.
Haha, this is interesting. I'm not refuting what you're saying, but what you seem to be describing is a slow progression of genres being divorced from their style and ideas, and moving into aesthetic-based classifications. Ie: the first genre is based on ideas, the second is not really based on ideas, but rolls with the imagery, and then the third ends up being all about the imagery. This would be truly unfortunate.
The language and genres have evolved since the term 'cyberpunk' was originally coined, that's all. Sure 'steampunk' and 'dungeonpunk' have very little to do with 'punk', and it makes the labels a little strange, but it doesn't make them wrong.
I suppose it doesn't make them technically wrong, but they are very, very poor labels.
You bring up a lot of really good points. It's one of those tough areas of classification, because there are so very few solid examples of each genre, and most of them exist in gaming. (Iron Kingdoms, Eberron, etc...)
Adventure! Romance! MAD SCIENCE!!!
As for "Dungeon Punk", that's the word they described the artistic style of 3E as, back when it was released. In particular, it was mildly pejorative, and usually (or especially) referred to Hennet, the spiky-haired Sorcerer who wore a pair of pants made entirely of belts. When the term was used to describe an artistic style, it was obvious where the "punk" element fit into the discussion.
Yeh one of my players doesn't like Ebberron or anything associated with it because he thinks its "Steam-Punk". I havn't actually read much material on ebberron but it looks preatty sweet.
Personally, I love Eberron. That said, even though your friend isn't accurate, odds are good that he wouldn't like playing in Eberron, because it does share a lot of superficial qualities with Steam Punk. Eberron has magical equivalents for trains, zeppelins, telegraphs, banks, and Super 8 motels, among other things.
You can probably set any D&D game somewhere in Eberron, though some of those games might not do the setting justice; it's one thing to play in Eberron, it's another to actually play Eberron. The most Eberron-y campaigns are ones that play-up the notions of ancient prophecies, magic-as-technology, and perhaps most importantly, the fact that everyone has a hidden agenda.
Eberron is a great setting because of the variety of different types of campaigns or settings you can play with within its mythology. You can play an "international/political intrigue"-style game set in the densely populated continent of Khorvaire; you can play escape from a continent ruled by tyrannical psionic overlords; you can play post-apocalyptic fantasy in the Mournland or the Demon Wastes; you can be lost on the magical unexplored continent of Xen'drik; you can be religious crusaders, crime lords, archeologists, pirates, treasure hunters, mercenaries, spies, plane-sailors, dragon-worshipers, demon cultists, or any of dozens of other archetypes. The nice thing about Eberron is that no matter which directionyou decide to go -- literally or figuratively -- the setting tells you exactly where you'll end up, without telling you exactly what you'll find along the way.* It's the perfect balance of detail and blank-slate for almost any D&D campaign.
(*Compare this to FR, where the setting tells you not only where you'll end up, but also the name of every tree stump you encounter, as well as who chopped it down when, and why.)
Give me a Gaslamp Fantasy over any-punk.
Adventure! Romance! MAD SCIENCE!!!
Eberron? Eberron.
Even if that's not what you're thinking of, it works well. Your comments also remind me of the Yukon and the show Fringe, two things which I also like.
Give me a Gaslamp Fantasy over any-punk.
Adventure! Romance! MAD SCIENCE!!!
Gaspunk? ;)
Gaspunk? ;)
Pfftt, Dieselpunk beats the **** out of Gaspunk :P
Pfftt, Dieselpunk beats the **** out of Gaspunk :P
Gaspunk is the genre where the future is ruled by tyrannical gas companies who charge ridiculous amounts of money for petrol and the only heroes are the road warriors who fight for independence from the megacorporations. Dieselpunk is some guy with a mohawk wearing designers jeans. ;)
Gaspunk is the genre where the future is ruled by tyrannical gas companies who charge ridiculous amounts of money for petrol
I thought that was called reality
I thought that was called reality
So all along d20 Modern was Gaspunk!
Give me a Gaslamp Fantasy over any-punk.
Adventure! Romance! MAD SCIENCE!!!
My hat off to you Anubis, I love girl genius comics
Agatha is like my DREAM GIRL ;) for that you get a
