Magic: The Gathering products for 4th Edition DnD - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Magic: The Gathering products for 4th Edition DnD

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
DocSpartan
Feb 11, 2010 15:31:07
When I originally heard that every year we would be getting a new 4th ed campaign setting every year I was psyched. I new they would be hitting the oldies like Forgotten Realms and Eberron (I honestly thought we'd see Greyhawk next despite what WoTC said), and I'm happy to see Dark Sun getting a 4E makeover.

That said, I've always wondered why the DnD Devs never took advantage of the giant, in-house, creative engine that is the MTG design team. Now, I'm no longer a MTG player mainly due to cost but I've always felt that the worlds and fluff of the various Magic sets and worlds would be a great resource to tap for DnD.

I guess what I'm getting at is I'd love to see sourcebooks devoted to turning the worlds of MTG into a roleplaying experience for DnD. Dominaria, Ravnica, Lorwyn, Alara, Mirrodin are all intresting and fantastic settings that would be really awesome to game in. Even if they never make full page count setting books for them, I think 60 to 100 page books translating some of the iconic elements of each world would be really cool.

I hope I'm not the only one who thinks this would be a good idea.
#2
haplo81
Feb 11, 2010 15:40:10 WotC has stated that this won't happen because the don't want to "dilute" the IPs or some such.
#3
DocSpartan
Feb 11, 2010 17:25:38 Really? Bummer.

I suppose I understand the decision on an intellectual level but I really do think they'd make great game worlds.

So has anyone here adopted any MTG concepts into their games or world? I myself am translating Slivers into an aberration infestation from the Far Realms, and the Myr have become a nuicance "race" of constructs (much like Kobolds or Goblins) originally crafted by a now long gone society of magical artificers.
#4
Alter_Boy
Feb 11, 2010 19:56:58
From what little has been said from official and unofficial sources, there is a slight rivalry between the two branches of WotC. I can see why. The casual gamer might flip back and forth from CCG to RPG, but the professional game designer has to be in a state of mind fit for the product they're working on. RPG writers would make poor CCG designers (See Alpha) and vice-versa. I imagine there is very little overlap of interest or interaction in these two branches.

Plus, it's really hard to make a system that allows the translation of 1,000s of M:TG cards and isn't just a role-played version of a M:TG duel.
#5
strand0
Feb 11, 2010 20:58:07 They should do a (few) Monster Manual.

Hurloon Minotaur and Prodigal Sorcerer! Love those guys!
#6
DocSpartan
Feb 11, 2010 21:08:19

From what little has been said from official and unofficial sources, there is a slight rivalry between the two branches of WotC. I can see why. The casual gamer might flip back and forth from CCG to RPG, but the professional game designer has to be in a state of mind fit for the product they're working on. RPG writers would make poor CCG designers (See Alpha) and vice-versa. I imagine there is very little overlap of interest or interaction in these two branches.

Plus, it's really hard to make a system that allows the translation of 1,000s of M:TG cards and isn't just a role-played version of a M:TG duel.

I do agree that trying to directly translate thousands of cards would be a daunting, if not impossible task. However, I wasn't suggesting a direct, card to game translation.

If I remember correctly, the MTG teams create "flavor bibles" for each set which solidifies the world's fluff (and the sets overall plot/theme). Unfortunately, most of that fluff is never seen by the card players. I am simply suggesting taking all that fluff using it to fluff and flavor DnD.

I realize it'll probably never happen, but we can all dream can't we?
#7
mackinator
Feb 11, 2010 21:21:41
Really? Bummer.

I suppose I understand the decision on an intellectual level but I really do think they'd make great game worlds.

So has anyone here adopted any MTG concepts into their games or world? I myself am translating Slivers into an aberration infestation from the Far Realms, and the Myr have become a nuicance "race" of constructs (much like Kobolds or Goblins) originally crafted by a now long gone society of magical artificers.

I really like that idea, but (as much as I like them) fitting in things like Myr could be difficult. Why would they still be functioning? If nobody likes them, and adventurers like you are out destroying them, surely they would be wiped out easily and quickly (it's not like they could replenish their numbers).

Now things like slivers, on the other hand, could be really interesting if implemented well.

Also, material from Kamigawa could be potentially useful for Primal characters.
#8
DocSpartan
Feb 11, 2010 21:29:55 In my world there is a country that was once a human kingdom and these people came to rely on magical artifice for even the simplest of tasks. At some point in the distant past their magic, and the construct servitors they relied on, turned against them and took over the kingdom after disposing of their former overlords.

In my world this is the basic origin and homeland of the Warforged, the Myr, the Shardminds (depending on the PH3 fluff) and any other constructs that strike my fancy.
#9
MechaPilot
Feb 11, 2010 21:33:14 So long as you don't need collectible cards from randomized boosters to play, I think it's a fine idea.
#10
greatfrito
Feb 11, 2010 22:25:38 I stopped playing M:tG about the same time I started playing D&D, but I still follow it every once in a while. I think the world-building that goes into the sets is... some of the best I ever see anywhere. I would love to see something like it translated to a D&D setting, but I can understand why they wouldn't want to.

That said, if they included some of their most interesting ideas in D&D products somewhere, maybe with a wink and a nod, I'd love it. Slivers seem an obvious (and interesting) choice.

The best thing about using M:tG creatures or concepts would be, for me, the ready availability of art.

"What does that look like?" "It looks like this."

Heck, if they sold non-random packs of cards with just art reused from M:tG on them, I'd probably buy them. Paizo is doing something similar with their Game Mastery cards, and those are some of my favorite products I've seen in the last few years.
#11
haplo81
Feb 12, 2010 17:55:22 I've wanted to run a DnD game set in Ulgrotha, the setting of the much-maligned Homelands set. Yes, mechanically, it was awful. But the setting was amazing.
#12
nandvs_the_fanpire
Feb 13, 2010 5:38:46 I was thinking in Alara CS, before the reborn:

5 planes with 1 new build and a new race:

JUND:
Barbarian race
Goblin race? Human reflufed?

NAYA:
Shaman Build
Nacatl Race

ESPER:
Artificer build
Esperians race/subrace as dhampyr

GRIXIS:
Wizard build (nigromant not necromancer)
Revenant print

BANT:
Knigth class/warrior build
Deva reflufed
#13
Seakog
Feb 13, 2010 18:31:33 I am working on a project to do this as a standard D&D game. Without many or any changes to the core game. Just playing int he Domaniria universe. I think Dark Sun preview have show us the way to do this without having to reinvent the wheel. No need for new races if there are existing ones that match closely and can be refluffed into a role. In dark sun, Goliaths are called Half Giants, so they didn't need to make a new half giant race. All you need to do is simple say that X race calls themselves Y something in the setting.

I am thinking of the following:

Goliath: Balduvians. (Larger than life Barbarians)
Genasi, Firesoul: Flamekin (Only difference here is cosmetic as the Flamekin appear more elemental than the traditional genasi do)
Halfling: Kithkin
Shifters: Leonid (In the dominaria universe, they are simply more furry than the regular ones)

I haven't been able to peg down the Eladrin yet. I may refluff them to Vedalken. Both are high magic, aloof tall races with extra education bonuses. Refluff Fey step into Arcane Gate, their superior knowledge of magic theory allows them to temporarily breach space.

Any thoughts on Merfolk?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 DocSpartan Feb 11, 2010 15:31:07	When I originally heard that every year we would be getting a new 4th ed campaign setting every year I was psyched. I new they would be hitting the oldies like Forgotten Realms and Eberron (I honestly thought we'd see Greyhawk next despite what WoTC said), and I'm happy to see Dark Sun getting a 4E makeover. That said, I've always wondered why the DnD Devs never took advantage of the giant, in-house, creative engine that is the MTG design team. Now, I'm no longer a MTG player mainly due to cost but I've always felt that the worlds and fluff of the various Magic sets and worlds would be a great resource to tap for DnD. I guess what I'm getting at is I'd love to see sourcebooks devoted to turning the worlds of MTG into a roleplaying experience for DnD. Dominaria, Ravnica, Lorwyn, Alara, Mirrodin are all intresting and fantastic settings that would be really awesome to game in. Even if they never make full page count setting books for them, I think 60 to 100 page books translating some of the iconic elements of each world would be really cool. I hope I'm not the only one who thinks this would be a good idea.
#2 haplo81 Feb 11, 2010 15:40:10	WotC has stated that this won't happen because the don't want to "dilute" the IPs or some such.
#3 DocSpartan Feb 11, 2010 17:25:38	Really? Bummer. I suppose I understand the decision on an intellectual level but I really do think they'd make great game worlds. So has anyone here adopted any MTG concepts into their games or world? I myself am translating Slivers into an aberration infestation from the Far Realms, and the Myr have become a nuicance "race" of constructs (much like Kobolds or Goblins) originally crafted by a now long gone society of magical artificers.
#4 Alter_Boy Feb 11, 2010 19:56:58	From what little has been said from official and unofficial sources, there is a slight rivalry between the two branches of WotC. I can see why. The casual gamer might flip back and forth from CCG to RPG, but the professional game designer has to be in a state of mind fit for the product they're working on. RPG writers would make poor CCG designers (See Alpha) and vice-versa. I imagine there is very little overlap of interest or interaction in these two branches. Plus, it's really hard to make a system that allows the translation of 1,000s of M:TG cards and isn't just a role-played version of a M:TG duel.
#5 strand0 Feb 11, 2010 20:58:07	They should do a (few) Monster Manual. Hurloon Minotaur and Prodigal Sorcerer! Love those guys!
#6 DocSpartan Feb 11, 2010 21:08:19	From what little has been said from official and unofficial sources, there is a slight rivalry between the two branches of WotC. I can see why. The casual gamer might flip back and forth from CCG to RPG, but the professional game designer has to be in a state of mind fit for the product they're working on. RPG writers would make poor CCG designers (See Alpha) and vice-versa. I imagine there is very little overlap of interest or interaction in these two branches. Plus, it's really hard to make a system that allows the translation of 1,000s of M:TG cards and isn't just a role-played version of a M:TG duel. I do agree that trying to directly translate thousands of cards would be a daunting, if not impossible task. However, I wasn't suggesting a direct, card to game translation. If I remember correctly, the MTG teams create "flavor bibles" for each set which solidifies the world's fluff (and the sets overall plot/theme). Unfortunately, most of that fluff is never seen by the card players. I am simply suggesting taking all that fluff using it to fluff and flavor DnD. I realize it'll probably never happen, but we can all dream can't we?
#7 mackinator Feb 11, 2010 21:21:41	Really? Bummer. I suppose I understand the decision on an intellectual level but I really do think they'd make great game worlds. So has anyone here adopted any MTG concepts into their games or world? I myself am translating Slivers into an aberration infestation from the Far Realms, and the Myr have become a nuicance "race" of constructs (much like Kobolds or Goblins) originally crafted by a now long gone society of magical artificers. I really like that idea, but (as much as I like them) fitting in things like Myr could be difficult. Why would they still be functioning? If nobody likes them, and adventurers like you are out destroying them, surely they would be wiped out easily and quickly (it's not like they could replenish their numbers). Now things like slivers, on the other hand, could be really interesting if implemented well. Also, material from Kamigawa could be potentially useful for Primal characters.
#8 DocSpartan Feb 11, 2010 21:29:55	In my world there is a country that was once a human kingdom and these people came to rely on magical artifice for even the simplest of tasks. At some point in the distant past their magic, and the construct servitors they relied on, turned against them and took over the kingdom after disposing of their former overlords. In my world this is the basic origin and homeland of the Warforged, the Myr, the Shardminds (depending on the PH3 fluff) and any other constructs that strike my fancy.
#9 MechaPilot Feb 11, 2010 21:33:14	So long as you don't need collectible cards from randomized boosters to play, I think it's a fine idea.
#10 greatfrito Feb 11, 2010 22:25:38	I stopped playing M:tG about the same time I started playing D&D, but I still follow it every once in a while. I think the world-building that goes into the sets is... some of the best I ever see anywhere. I would love to see something like it translated to a D&D setting, but I can understand why they wouldn't want to. That said, if they included some of their most interesting ideas in D&D products somewhere, maybe with a wink and a nod, I'd love it. Slivers seem an obvious (and interesting) choice. The best thing about using M:tG creatures or concepts would be, for me, the ready availability of art. "What does that look like?" "It looks like this." Heck, if they sold non-random packs of cards with just art reused from M:tG on them, I'd probably buy them. Paizo is doing something similar with their Game Mastery cards, and those are some of my favorite products I've seen in the last few years.
#11 haplo81 Feb 12, 2010 17:55:22	I've wanted to run a DnD game set in Ulgrotha, the setting of the much-maligned Homelands set. Yes, mechanically, it was awful. But the setting was amazing.
#12 nandvs_the_fanpire Feb 13, 2010 5:38:46	I was thinking in Alara CS, before the reborn: 5 planes with 1 new build and a new race: JUND: Barbarian race Goblin race? Human reflufed? NAYA: Shaman Build Nacatl Race ESPER: Artificer build Esperians race/subrace as dhampyr GRIXIS: Wizard build (nigromant not necromancer) Revenant print BANT: Knigth class/warrior build Deva reflufed
#13 Seakog Feb 13, 2010 18:31:33	I am working on a project to do this as a standard D&D game. Without many or any changes to the core game. Just playing int he Domaniria universe. I think Dark Sun preview have show us the way to do this without having to reinvent the wheel. No need for new races if there are existing ones that match closely and can be refluffed into a role. In dark sun, Goliaths are called Half Giants, so they didn't need to make a new half giant race. All you need to do is simple say that X race calls themselves Y something in the setting. I am thinking of the following: Goliath: Balduvians. (Larger than life Barbarians) Genasi, Firesoul: Flamekin (Only difference here is cosmetic as the Flamekin appear more elemental than the traditional genasi do) Halfling: Kithkin Shifters: Leonid (In the dominaria universe, they are simply more furry than the regular ones) I haven't been able to peg down the Eladrin yet. I may refluff them to Vedalken. Both are high magic, aloof tall races with extra education bonuses. Refluff Fey step into Arcane Gate, their superior knowledge of magic theory allows them to temporarily breach space. Any thoughts on Merfolk?