So what do people expect, and what do they hope for?
Personally, I'd like to see more polearm/heavy blade exploits that reward a high-Dex fighter. The tempest guy is OK, but I'm thinking something more along the lines of a Duelist who fights with one hand free, in light or no armor, with lots of mobility. Having worked on my own Duelist class as a Dex-based martial defender, I don't think there's really enough room for a whole new class, but a new talent tree and set of powers could work nicely, I think.
- A Ranger Fighting Style for Zweihanders. If they're the master of different fighting styles and the STR-using martial striker, why shouldn't they get to be good with two-handed weapons?
- A Rogue Tactic that uses INT. Right now, I have zero mechanical excuse to give my Rogue anything other than an 8 INT. This is bad.
- A Warlord Commanding Presence that uses WIS. What, Wisdom and empathy aren't important traits in a leader? All that matter is that they can come up with some good strategies and boss some people around?
What I hope for, is something that won't create feat and power pollution, and will be comparable to core options, yet different. Hoping for a PHB2-like product that gives some different options to the martial archetypes without a feeling of more of the same, while remaining true to the martial power source.
[*]A Rogue Tactic that uses INT. Right now, I have zero mechanical excuse to give my Rogue anything other than an 8 INT. This is bad.
[/list]
This.
They let me down the first time around, but they're got another chance:
- A Ranger Fighting Style for Zweihanders. If they're the master of different fighting styles and the STR-using martial striker, why shouldn't they get to be good with two-handed weapons?
- A Rogue Tactic that uses INT. Right now, I have zero mechanical excuse to give my Rogue anything other than an 8 INT. This is bad.
- A Warlord Commanding Presence that uses WIS. What, Wisdom and empathy aren't important traits in a leader? All that matter is that they can come up with some good strategies and boss some people around?
This, primarily I want to see more secondary stat build options like we did with the wizards in Arcane Power. I also fail to see why existing builds force the ranger to be 2w fighters, it kinda doesn't make much sense.
I'd like to see more controller esque options for Ranger and Rogue, in terms of powers and build options, something that replaces their striker feature with a more control styled feature.
They may never give us the class, but damn, could they at least let us adapt existing classes to properly adopt the fighting style?
I'd also expect a Samurai like option for Fighter or Warlord.
Honourable pressence anyone.
A Bow option for Warlords would be nice too.
A Bow option for Warlords would be nice too.
Nothing says "Inspiring Leader" like the guy plinking at enemies from the back of the room...
- Combo System that works with Powers. You use Powers in different orders you get math bonuses or specific keywords, conditions, etc.
- Spiked Gauntlet based Powers, Feats, etc.
- More Spear Powers, Feats, etc.
- If firearms are released by then. Then I would like to see Firearm Powers, Feats, etc.
- Non-magical Rituals. Stuff like setting up Traps, Training with Weapons, Planning, etc.
- Poison options. Feats, lots of different Poisons.
- More weapon options in general.
Some stuff I would like to see:
[LIST]
[*]Combo System that works with Powers. You use Powers in different orders you get math bonuses or specific keywords, conditions, etc.
Do you mean like a specific chain of attacks which builds up to a crescendo? Please explain, because your idea soudns intriguing.
All I can think of was in Dark Age of Camelot, where for example an Armsman would hit with a relatively weak blow which would slow his opponent, but that weak blow would open up an opportunity for him to use a stronger stunning blow the next round, which would finally open up the possibility of a truly destructive blow on the third round.
2) Intelligent Rogues, because it covers an archetype that needs to be filled. Perhaps one that is better at traps, ambushes, skills, or working in a team setup. Dodgers may have mobility, scoundrels the overwhelming conditions, but we need someone who is a perfect flanker, the kind of friend who plays off the other martial characters and uses the advantages they provide (shifts, marks, extra attacks) as ideal opportunities.
3) More warlord options that play like Commander's Strike. Kind of like the pacifist cleric build, I'd like to see a warlord that isn't as in-your-face as the current version, the sort who could stand at the back and provide direction. Maybe that means using a ranged weapon, or perhaps it takes the form of orders and providing allies with greater offense.
Major bonus points? A warlord build that uses its secondaries, but isn't reliant upon strength, instead making allies roll attacks and providing Int or Cha buffs to allow a commander archetype that isn't physically strong. Add another at-will like Commander's Strike, then a single power per level where the warlord isn't the attack's source. For the little Napoleonic strategists out there.
4) Give some love to the feeble weapons. Picks, staves, flails, why are they crying so? Add some panache to each of the weapon styles to give them their place at the table.
5) Make my day? Mounted styles. A feat/class style/whatever that bolsters the use of riding in battle. For all the knights, horse archers, lancers, and cavaliers out there. Sure, it isn't dungeon friendly, but not every adventure is optimal to every build, and sometimes you just want to saddle up and ride.
Ranger I don't really know what to expect. Certainly a few more Beast Companion options (new types, new feat to boost their damage, new items for companions, etc).
Rogue: An INT and a WIS build would be great. The WIS build I could see be the more trapmaster build since your need Perception to find trap.
Warlord: A WIS option. A bow using option that would allow the Warlord to be an Off-controller!
Nothing says "Inspiring Leader" like the guy plinking at enemies from the back of the room...
Inspiring combat leaders could very well be archers (especially tactical rather than inspiring). Although, I don't think there should be a specific build based on bows for warlords (it's out of theme with their other builds), just more powers within each build that allow them to be used.
4) Give some love to the feeble weapons. Picks, staves, flails, why are they crying so? Add some panache to each of the weapon styles to give them their place at the table.
Absolutely! Little John and the rest of the Merry Band need decent quarterstaves to deliver nimble parries and devastating knock-down blows! (Plus it would be one step closer to my dream of a Friar Tuck.)
For Fighter I want a build that promote the use of versatile weapons. Not versatile and bord, not versatile weapons used as one hander, or as two hander... a true One-Hand-Two-Hand Versatile style. Maybe make that a Samurai inspired build where you have different options depending on wether you pick to attack with one hand or two hands. Powers that give you different riders and a different bonus from your class.
Ranger I don't really know what to expect. Certainly a few more Beast Companion options (new types, new feat to boost their damage, new items for companions, etc).
Rogue: An INT and a WIS build would be great. The WIS build I could see be the more trapmaster build since your need Perception to find trap.
Warlord: A WIS option. A bow using option that would allow the Warlord to be an Off-controller!
QFE, I'd really like a benefit beyond +1 damage. Speaking of which, I'd like to see feats that build upon staff fighting or additional feats that change the way its used.
Fighter: A versatile weapon build... ie.
Rogue: Non-racial feats that lets you use a long sword as a light blade, similar to Longsword Finesse(I like Eladrins, but does the feat really need to be Eladrin specific?). A rogue build to treat versatile heavy blades as light blades while retaining full sneak attack damage and non-versatile heavy blades as light blades while reducing sneak attack damage by 1 damage die at heroic and 2 damage die at epic.
An intelligent rogue is definitely needed, maybe one based more on prep and traps.
Until the play-test I was kinda hoping for monks to be the martial controller, but since they are not, we need another one.
Also because it sounds like the entire Ki power source is gone, some way to set up a samurai would be great.
3) More warlord options that play like Commander's Strike. Kind of like the pacifist cleric build, I'd like to see a warlord that isn't as in-your-face as the current version, the sort who could stand at the back and provide direction. Maybe that means using a ranged weapon, or perhaps it takes the form of orders and providing allies with greater offense.
Major bonus points? A warlord build that uses its secondaries, but isn't reliant upon strength, instead making allies roll attacks and providing Int or Cha buffs to allow a commander archetype that isn't physically strong. Add another at-will like Commander's Strike, then a single power per level where the warlord isn't the attack's source. For the little Napoleonic strategists out there.
I love the class act bard article that came out for this reason. I was able to make my Napoleon Gnome Resourceful Warlord. (taking Bardic Dilletante multiclass feat and the daring blade paragon path that lets you replace STR with CHA for all your melee weapon attacks). However this character was started at Paragon and never would have survived before.
Here is what I want to see in Martial Power 2:
sorry, I'll find a link
The Scout
Second, this isn't a thread for home brew discussion, so maybe you should replace all that text with a link to a thread here: http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=872
Anyways, in Martial Power 2, I would like to see some of the following:
Ranger:
-beast powers for the ranger that are actually worth using.
-a crazy mobile build option for the ranger that relies on hit-and-run tactics.
Rogue:
-an INT based build. A WIS one would be cool too.
Fighter:
-a build that relies on using a single one-handed weapon (no shield or off-hand weapon). This is a popular fighting style in fiction and such, so it would be nice to have it represented.
Warlord:
-a WIS based build.
Feats:
-some feats that modify at-wills, like the domain ones.
-some support for the weapons that are neglected right now, like maces, picks, staffs, light blades and FLAILS. The flail feats are made of SUCK right now. Especially the one from the original PHB, which gives you a bonus vs. shield-wearing opponents. It just plain sucks. It would be nice if each weapon group had a distinct style as well, rather than just generic feats that make the weapon better. For example, right now spears and polearms are great for control, axes are good for dishing out crits, and heavy blades are good for opportunity attacks. It would be nice if the other weapons had an area of expertise as well.
Overall:
-NO MORE CRAZY BROKEN CRAP! Please, playtest this one before you publish it. I will be annoyed if we see some ridiculous unbalanced stuff like the battlerager (pre-errata), dual strike, and hero of faith. Please, no POWER CREEP.
Besides, if you want some crazy grid filling, then Arcane needs another Defender and Controller to make sure their grid is balanced! The same can be said with Primal and Divine since odds are they wont get 4 classes in PHBIII.
Classes are made to represent archetypes and ability sets, not to be "X power sources Y".
I've noticed on these forums how much criticizing and how little support everyone gives and I can't help but wonder if all nerds are like this or just you guys. This is a D&D thread, let's not pretend that we are cooler than we really are unless we are role playing. ;)
I discovered these forums a week ago after playing for almost 2 years now and I was so excited to read and participate, however it would appear that everything I do or anywhere I post is wrong, or this is wrong, or that is wrong. As far as being a community goes this place could use a little sunshine.
To continue with my hopes than for Martial Power 2:
I agree that a ranged warlord would be neat, as that is how I picture Robin Hood. AND/OR It would be nice to have a wisdom build instead of Charisma. If nothing else, it would be nice if my Warlord could take Uncanny Dodge and use Brash Assault. lol
Kind of a lame build right now. Prefer to see it improved rather than forgotten.
Perhaps there could be new classes in Martial, Arcane and Divine Power 2?
A new fighting style that gives you Quick Draw as a free feat and when you unsheat your weapon(s) as part of your attack you get a +1 bonus to damage! Then give them an at-will that lets you put away your weapon after you hit so you don't need to always spend your minor action for it!
Rogues with Shortbows
sneak attack B*tch!!!!!
Light armour has plenty of love; I'd like to see heavy armour get some attention now, please.
Rangers are already good with 2h weapons, they lack a strong variety of powers that work with 2h weapons, and a build option specifically geared towards 2h weapons, but they actually perform well with 2h weapons.
True. Most beast master powers encourage the use of a two-handed weaponry (as unless the beast is the primary attacker, the ranger needs to be in melee and without a "must be wield two-weapons" restriction bigger the damage dice of most two-handed weapons becomes quite desirable). I wouldn't mind seeing a two-handed focused build, but I'm not sure I see a great need for it either.
What I really want to see for rangers is more beast master powers. I'd like to see enough powers to make a viable character where only the companion ever rolls attack and damage. I'd also like to see beast master attack powers that support more archer-like style. I'd also like to see feats that give the companion more species specif abilities (such as a viper feat that adds ongoing poison damage, or a constrictor feat that let the companion make a free grab when it attacks).
Major bonus points? A warlord build that uses its secondaries, but isn't reliant upon strength, instead making allies roll attacks and providing Int or Cha buffs to allow a commander archetype that isn't physically strong. Add another at-will like Commander's Strike, then a single power per level where the warlord isn't the attack's source. For the little Napoleonic strategists out there.
This. I love the new cleric build that never rolls damage. I'd absolutly love to see a warlord build that never rolls attacks.
For Fighter I want a build that promote the use of versatile weapons. Not versatile and bord, not versatile weapons used as one hander, or as two hander... a true One-Hand-Two-Hand Versatile style. Maybe make that a Samurai inspired build where you have different options depending on wether you pick to attack with one hand or two hands. Powers that give you different riders and a different bonus from your class.
Also this. I'd like to see the versatile property as more than just a property that designates weapons that small characters have two exert more effort to wield. The mediocre +1 damage bonus just isn't enough to compete against sword&board or a real two-handed weapon.
I'd also like to see a ranged warlord (maybe with wisdom riders), and an "intelligent rogue," build.
I really have no idea what they are going to do with the ranger.
The aforementioned Int rogue build and single handed weapon fighting;
Some kind of feat/PP that rewards dex a bit more for a fighter ( something like Champion of Corellon, or something that mimics Agile Armor, and that lets you add a portion of your dex bonus to AC when wearing heavy armor );
Support for unarmored/cloth wearing martial classes ( Swashbuckler anyone? ). For example, I'd love something that let you add your weapon proficiency bonus to your AC when wearing cloth/no armor.
Some love for THF. There's what, 1 feat that favors THF (Power Attack ) and like a zillion feats for TWF'ers.
I imagine it being a combo of low-damage but more ability effecting; rattled, slowed, prone, blind, etc. Combined with rarer high damage ones to represent the really brutal stuff like curb stomping someone.
We have some of that with Brutal Scoundrel and such, but would like to see more. Something that really gets the feel across throughout the spectrum from Class Features, Powers, Feats, etc.
fighter
rogue
ranger
warlord.
in all seriousness though:
redone twf, in 3.0 it was two feats to get, in 3. just one feat to get, in 4e a feat and a power.
the one feat and a power isnt twf, its a feat that allows one or the other which is ambidextrous fighting and the power to gain the offhand attack with the main.
and a rouge feat for rogues
in total seriousness:
better builds
new paragon paths
new this and that
most importantly
more weapon styles...
SmallWarrior’s Defense
Prerequisite: Fighter,Small size
Benefit: While you are using a versatile weapon
in both hands, you gain a +2 bonus to AC and Reflex.
This is like something I would of hoped for in Martial Power 2... minus the random and unnecessary small race requirement.
Doesn't really make sense to have an archer ranger that has Two-Blade Fighting Style, but that is sadly the case many times! It would be really nice to have a lot of feats and powers that have the Archer Fighting Style as a requirement. This should separate the true archers from the wanna-be archers.
Fighter - I'd love an unarmed fighter build. And more support for holding versatile weapons two-handed.
Ranger - Let's see a trap making build, with a heavy dose of control. Bear traps, fire traps, the works. It might actually give the ranger some flavor.
Rogue - An intelligence build would be great. I'd like to see some real poison making with better poison support.
Warlord - I'd love a guerilla based warlord, who grants lots of concealment.
I love the idea of martial rituals too. Awesome.
5) Make my day? Mounted styles. A feat/class style/whatever that bolsters the use of riding in battle. For all the knights, horse archers, lancers, and cavaliers out there. Sure, it isn't dungeon friendly, but not every adventure is optimal to every build, and sometimes you just want to saddle up and ride.
Me too. Something akin to the feat options they have for familiars in AP, perhaps? And some expansion/clarification around the mounted combat rules in DMG.
I'd love to see an option for fighter that allows you to use Dex instead of Str when making their class attacks. That way we can play as a finessed fighter rather than the more "me smash!" fighter we have now.
Isn't that what Rogues are for??
Beyond that, a rogue is limited to only light blade weapons for melee attacks.
As of right now, there is absolutely no class that can use the whip and its specializations to its fullest. Rogues have the stat but can't use a flail for their attacks. A fighter can use the whip for their attacks, but uses str to hit instead of dex. A whip master should be able to glide through the battlefield as if in an elaborate dance.
Turning an 'A' class into a 'V' class feels...iffy... to me.
And even there just going 'here, take DEX instead of STR for attack stat for all your powers!' feels...shallow and pointless. Plus it would make the Fighter's AC too good.
I'd say you'd actually have a much better argument toward the creation of a NEW martial class all together.
I suppose a finesse defender (or rather finesse martial defender) is rather missing... still...
Turning an 'A' class into a 'V' class feels...iffy... to me.
And even there just going 'here, take DEX instead of STR for attack stat for all your powers!' feels...shallow and pointless. Plus it would make the Fighter's AC too good.
I'd say you'd actually have a much better argument toward the creation of a NEW martial class all together.
We shall call him a Musketeer!
I still want to see the Fighter be able to somehow add a portion of his Dexterity bonus to his armour class even while in heavy armour like we were promised way back in those "Wizards presents" books.
Wasn't that turned into the Agile Armor?
Maybe as a feat? Or a utility?
I'd like to see a martial controller.
No new class will be released in Martial Power 2, new classes aren't released in the X Power books. Fighters already have a bit of controllerish power by the way.
A Throwing Weapons fighter build.
A Cunning Rogue. (Int secondary stat)
that's it really.
More non two weapon Ranger powers.
A Throwing Weapons fighter build.
A Cunning Rogue. (Int secondary stat)
that's it really.
I think a Cunning Rogue would be better off with WIS as a secondary... INT is more academic knowledge so a guy who's good at bluff, perception and insight feels more cunning to me... plus it would be better mechanically speaking.
Though both idea could work.
INT is more academic knowledge
I don't think this is true at all. Academic knowledge is represented by skill checks, such as Arcana, History, and Religion. Intelligence is the ability to learn, reason, understand, process information quickly and effectively, and form complex plans and ideas. Intelligence is by no means restricted to book lernin'. ;)
I don't think this is true at all. Academic knowledge is represented by skill checks, such as Arcana, History, and Religion. Intelligence is the ability to learn, reason, understand, process information quickly and effectively, and form complex plans and ideas. Intelligence is by no means restricted to book lernin'. ;)
I guess you're right... the Taclord uses INT after all... so a INT rogue would essentially be a cloak and dagger version of the Taclord :P ?
Maybe even with a leader slant, like the Guildmaster Thief paragon path extended to a whole build.
I guess you're right... the Taclord uses INT after all... so a INT rogue would essentially be a cloak and dagger version of the Taclord :P ?
Maybe even with a leader slant, like the Guildmaster Thief paragon path extended to a whole build.
And your Epic Destiny can be Batman. :D
I don't see the necessity of this book at all.
There are already a plethora of options for martial characters and they can already fit almost every niche with liberal usage of multi/hybrid classing.
I'll concede a few things might be missing, but I don't think they necessitate an entire book. I think a lot of people are still getting caught up in class names, and not really thinking about what they want the character to do.
There was so little content in martial power that I found usable( some feats and the PPs, far less than half the book). The powers with the exception of some warlord additions seem largely weaker on the whole than their PHB1 fellows (I'm not saying they should be more powerful but equal to or slightly lower would be nice) or far to conditional to see much use. I'm expecting this book to be about the same.
If the previews blow me away I might look at it, but it's a very unlikely purchase at this point.
Nothing says "Inspiring Leader" like the guy plinking at enemies from the back of the room...
It says a lot for his tactics though.
I can't be the only one who finds it odd that the most tactically minded character is largely limited to melee attacks only.
How about Strategic Pressence or such, a mid ranged Warlord who uses the right weapon for the job and directs others around as needed.
Could also be Wis secondary or whatever,
It'd be nice to play a Warlord that can shift with the momentum of the battlefield, at the moment there are no great options for doing this.
Alternatively it'd be nice to get Leader like options for the Ranger and rogue (along with the Controller esque options already asked for).
Wasn't that turned into the Agile Armor?
Yes, Agile armour does the same thing, but so does one of the new Paragon Paths in Divine Power--the Champion of Corellon or something. So there does exist precedent for allowing a character to bypass the "Heavy Armour kills ur Dex" restriction.
Wasn't that turned into the Agile Armor?
Maybe as a feat? Or a utility?
I would love to see this happen, I found those "wizards presents" books recently and was reading through them. This is the one thing that really made me go wow that would have been cool(the warlock curses also sounded alot cooler then they are). Agile armor can be used by anyone, the preview was specific in fighters getting better armor bonus. It would be cool to see, it sounds to me like the chain/scale/plat optimizations feats were the originally going to be fighter only(they match to what the preview alludes to and they were in the first phb), Think about it and it makes sense.
Okay so sometimes the punishment can be severe but sometimes its worth taking the Divine Sanction to hit that squishy wizard who's hurting your buddies ya know?
Elven Ranger needs a horse not a doggy.
But if other builds are gonna happen I would certainly like some smart rogues (I side with Wisdom of Int if just for the NADs issue), and a ranged warlord, and possibly fighter.
As of right now the only real archer in the game is the ranger, and sometimes the bard, seriously, the bard.
The problem is that if the fighter, or any defender, has TOO high an AC the monsters just won't bother and just take the -2 penalty from the mark and attack someone else.
Okay so sometimes the punishment can be severe but sometimes its worth taking the Divine Sanction to hit that squishy wizard who's hurting your buddies ya know?
I have yet to ever see this really be worth it. Remember that it's not just a -2, it's a -2 and damage, or some other nasty effect. Even if the defender has 5 more AC than the striker, it's usually still not worth it to attack the striker.
Maybe that could be part of the INT or WIS rogue! Get proficiency with the Shortbow and can use it when a power or feature asks for a crossbow.
And to make the leader-esque rogue I'd say when you inflict your Sneak Attack damage something happen that helps you allies...maybe you give someone combat advantage against the target, OR you can drop the sneak attack damage one die to let someone inflict additionnal damage to the target equal to your INT or WIS mod!
:D
Did somebody mention we need a shortbow rogue yet?
And not just for elves, dammit! Does she look like she has
pointy ears? :PI am not a fan of "OK, we'll let you use a weapon your class doesn't normally use, but only if you're race X" feats. If it's balanced for an eladrin to use a longsword with rogue powers (at -1 sneak attack dice), then how can it not be just as balanced for a human or half-orc to use one?