Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 middlewilliam Apr 14, 2009 12:53:34	What happened to the monk class? and if its not going to be designed by the company can players make there own designs for it? ;)
#2 ekio Apr 14, 2009 12:55:06	Comes out in PHB3, playtest in May, etc.
#3 Darkwolf_Bloodsbane Apr 14, 2009 12:55:56	Preview - Next Month. Release: PHB3. We've had this info straight from the Company for a couple of months now.
#4 middlewilliam Apr 14, 2009 12:57:00	srry, im replying to my own message before anyone else because i forgot to mention that im only asking about designing our own monk class for everyone to use because already have a basis for the monk class that i think might be good. ignore this
#5 middlewilliam Apr 14, 2009 12:59:55	ignoring my own last comment why hasn't the monk been released sooner? darn it i need to refresh my pages more often
#6 middlewilliam Apr 14, 2009 13:12:46	so does that mean the ninja should come out with the monk?
#7 Cpt_Micha Apr 14, 2009 13:15:29	so does that mean the ninja should come out with the monk? Not necessarily. some classes like the Ninja are really just Rogues. Or other pre existing classes. That's another reason the monk isn't out yet, is they have no clue as to what they are going to put with it probably. Another probably more important reason is though, that they needed more time to figure out just what they were going to do to make the Monk a viable class.
#8 middlewilliam Apr 14, 2009 13:26:30	now thats is a funny coincidence because i think the same thing but the real difference between these two classes is the way they actually go about doing the same job.
#9 TheLoneCleric Apr 14, 2009 13:29:14	now thats is a funny coincidence because i think the same thing but the real difference between these two classes is the way they actually go about doing the same job. But Mechanically they're essential the same. They have if you go back a few months a Ranger to Monk conversion guide, or if you have a DDI subscription, in May they'll have the Monk Playtest article.
#10 onemanhorde Apr 14, 2009 13:29:18	[sarcasm] Ah, a post regarding the monk... congratulations you are our billionth poster of this exact subject... ;) [/sarcasm]] The monk will be out next year, it hasn't been released yet because they hadn't started working on it, it will be Ki power source, probably a striker accompanied by the samurai but probably not the ninja. Don't expect four classes for the Ki power source, as they wont fill out the grid just to fill out the grid.
#11 middlewilliam Apr 14, 2009 13:34:22	[sarcasm] Ah, a post regarding the monk... congratulations you are our billionth poster of this exact subject... ;) [/sarcasm]] The monk will be out next year, it hasn't been released yet because they hadn't started working on it, it will be Ki power source, probably a striker accompanied by the samurai but probably not the ninja. Don't expect four classes for the Ki power source, as they wont fill out the grid just to fill out the grid. # ONE-BILLION, so do i get a prize? ;) [/sarcasm ]]
#12 Mengu74 Apr 14, 2009 13:40:40	USA Firday's 10/9 central. Oh you mean the class? Sorry couldn't resist. *hangs head in shame*
#13 Hocus-Smokus Apr 14, 2009 13:46:34	Where's the Monk? Did he ever leave? He looks okay to me.
#14 middlewilliam Apr 14, 2009 13:51:42	:embarrass lol now thats a good one :invasion: :invasion: :invasion: :invasion: and i shall now challenge you to a duel
#15 Shiftkitty Apr 14, 2009 14:32:27	Aside from the Monk and maybe the Ninja, who else would use the Ki power source? I have an old Dragon that covers the Geisha, but I really think it was a stretch, trying to turn a courtesan into a class. Maybe they plan to do something weird with the Wu-jen? Maybe a fighter type class with two builds: Jackie Chan and Jet Li? Hmm, Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee, which one is the PP, which one is the ED?
#16 onemanhorde Apr 14, 2009 14:37:00	# ONE-BILLION, so do i get a prize? ;) [/sarcasm ]] a for good sportmanship
#17 Samursus Apr 14, 2009 15:22:36	Aside from the Monk and maybe the Ninja, who else would use the Ki power source? Maybe they plan to do something weird with the Wu-jen? I do remember them mentioning Wu-jen in the Races and Classes book I believe...could very well have that one. Hmmm you got me speculating now. I would think they are going to try and come up with stuff that isn't necessarily tied to a specific RL culture if they can avoid it......buuuuut not having much luck doing that myself. The problem is the definition of the Ki power source. In many ways it is synonymous with the ones we have already... a Monk could also fit under Martial...Wu-Jen Arcane..etc. I am finding it hard to differentiate between Ki, and flavours of the other Power Sources...
#18 black_tamanous Apr 14, 2009 15:37:43	If the Wu-jen does come out again my wizard/swordmage may suddenly turn into a Wu-jen/swordmage or Wu-jen/something in one miraculous moment.
#19 Arbitrary_Aardvark Apr 14, 2009 15:41:08	Aside from the Monk and maybe the Ninja, who else would use the Ki power source? I have an old Dragon that covers the Geisha, but I really think it was a stretch, trying to turn a courtesan into a class. Maybe they plan to do something weird with the Wu-jen? Maybe a fighter type class with two builds: Jackie Chan and Jet Li? Hmm, Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee, which one is the PP, which one is the ED? Probably some of the following (although you can bet that if they do a 4th edition "Oriental Adventures" there will be another class or two as well.) Wu-jen -- controller using powers of the five elements. Differentiated from other controllers in some neat way, possibly by using stances to vary the energy types. Samurai -- defender, or possibly striker. Personally, I don't see the need for this, but I'm guessing it will be there.
#20 Shiftkitty Apr 14, 2009 17:11:15	I do remember them mentioning Wu-jen in the Races and Classes book I believe...could very well have that one. Hmmm you got me speculating now. I would think they are going to try and come up with stuff that isn't necessarily tied to a specific RL culture if they can avoid it......buuuuut not having much luck doing that myself. The problem is the definition of the Ki power source. In many ways it is synonymous with the ones we have already... a Monk could also fit under Martial...Wu-Jen Arcane..etc. I am finding it hard to differentiate between Ki, and flavours of the other Power Sources... Although the whole game is based mostly off of Western cultures. I have the old Kara-Tur box set and it was great fun. As we watched "Forbidden Kingdom" it made me take that old box off the shelves and wonder if we were going to get a 4e rendition. I think the Orient has enough pizzazz in it's cultural history to make a great addition.
#21 onemanhorde Apr 14, 2009 17:19:25	Probably some of the following (although you can bet that if they do a 4th edition "Oriental Adventures" there will be another class or two as well.) Wu-jen -- controller using powers of the five elements. Differentiated from other controllers in some neat way, possibly by using stances to vary the energy types. Samurai -- defender, or possibly striker. Personally, I don't see the need for this, but I'm guessing it will be there. Wouldn't the Wujen there for be a elemental source class, not all asian classes are going to be ki if I remember correctly. And Samruai could also be a Leader if going my RL Lore.
#22 joni-san Apr 14, 2009 17:21:09	Maybe the Sohei could be another Ki class? -Joni
#23 middlewilliam Apr 14, 2009 17:25:16	a for good sportmanship MMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmhh.... Coooooooooookkkiiiiieeeee....
#24 DSCrankshaw Apr 14, 2009 19:19:22	Personally, I think there's a pretty good chance that there will be a ninja ki class at some point. Not necessarily because there is a need for a ninja class that isn't covered by the rogue, but just because it's so iconic, and if they need several ki classes, it's not difficult to imagine doubling up on striker (which they did with Martial and Arcane--personally, I'm a little tired of strikers, but that's just me). As for other ki classes, the 3.5e books already describe three classes that use ki (monk, ninja, and samurai). Two other oriental type classes are technically divine (shugenja) and arcane (wu jen), but I can easily see them filling in the leader and controller ki roles, if they want to make it a theme for all "oriental" classes.
#25 solik Apr 14, 2009 20:05:55	The rogue is good at throwing shuriken. The rogue is good at sneaking around. The rogue is good at slitting throats. The rogue is good at tumbling across the battlefield. The rogue is good at palming objects, unattended or otherwise. The rogue is not particularly good at dropping down from stuff. There is yet room for the ninja! Nah, if we see a ninja, it'll probably have a bit more comic book / anime to it compared to the rogue. That is, expect a lot of ki-powered ninja magic. I wouldn't even be surprised to spot a little Naruto seeping in.
#26 thax Apr 14, 2009 20:12:07	This is said in the PHB3 spec thread, but I shall repeat it here. The Ninja may be a part of the Shadow power source, taking most of the Shadow Dancer's abilities with it. I am hoping that the Monk will have some sort of weapon fighting along with the unarmed fighting, and that styles of unarmed fighting will be a part of each class in the Ki power source (including caster classes if they stay within the power source) My feeling is that the Psionic 4/Ki 2/Shadow 2 split.
#27 zombiegleemax Apr 14, 2009 20:25:35	In my games? Dead and gone, never to be seen again. This is medieval fantasy, not wire-fu or wuxia. Not that there is anything wrong with those, but there are better games for that (example: Exalted 2.0, even if I hate ticks with the fire of a hundred stars). In your game; offically, when PHB3 comes out. Sooner if you don't mind 3rd-party products (and may I recommend the Advanced Player's Guide) or are willing to do it yourself. Beauty of RPGs... you can do your own thing, if you like.
#28 Rustmonster Apr 14, 2009 20:32:15	Exalted But isn't that a game where you play, like, supergods or something?
#29 korro_zal Apr 14, 2009 20:52:32	Aside from the Monk and maybe the Ninja, who else would use the Ki power source? I have an old Dragon that covers the Geisha, but I really think it was a stretch, trying to turn a courtesan into a class. Geisha aren't courtesans. Many prostitutes and courtesans during the Edo period imitated the geisha in various ways, but they were imitations only, and few of them possessed the artistic and social skills geisha did. If geisha were to be made into a character class, it would resemble the bard more than anything else. Furthermore, I have no idea why you think "ki" might serve as some sort of power source for geisha regardless of how you imagine them. The notion of using "ki" as a power source for every Asian-themed character class makes me cringe.
#30 Marandahir Apr 16, 2009 22:47:11	Ninja could the the "True Assassins" that are an upcoming Shadow Class. This could also be called Assassin or Shadow Dancer. Wu-Jen and Shugenja both will probably be Elemental if they are at all. They might get renamed so that the Asiaphobes don't get upset. Like with Ninja. Sohei or Samurai would both make good Ki Defenders. A Soulblade (Soulknife conversion) would make a second good Ki Striker, and maybe a Monk build that uses a weapon of manifest soul energy. Doumyouji/Ying-Yang Master/Feng Shui would make a good Ki Leader or Controller. Asian material has a place in D&D, but the nature of the fluff is the question - do they change the names and fluff so that the Monks, Ninjas, and Samurais are fighting right alongside the Fighters, Druids, and Bards? Since Elemental is completely an unknown right now (no elements of what it'll be about have been revealed, save the proto-class "Elementalist"), we just can't know. Shadow, Psionic, and Ki, at least, have been described in more detail.
#31 TheLoneCleric Apr 20, 2009 15:14:17	But isn't that a game where you play, like, supergods or something? You play the chosen of the gods. Imagine the game starts a Paragon Tier and goes UP from there. Starting characters could take on lower powered gods right from the start.
#32 Enclave Apr 25, 2009 4:12:46	I'm betting one of the Ki power source classes is going to be Kensei.
#33 praion Apr 25, 2009 5:35:57	Kensai is a Fighter Paragon Path ;)
#34 Omni-Wyvernil Apr 25, 2009 6:53:08	As has been stated before, Monk has been confirmed for PHB3, and we'll see a playtest for it around May. As for the rest of the Ki power source, it's a bit early to tell. Most of its classes will probably have Asian flavor, but not all Asian-flavored classes will be pigeon-holed there if it doesn't make sense (for instance, Wu Jen and Shugenja would probably work better as Elemental classes, and Ninja could arguably be placed in the Shadow source). Some ideas of how the Ki source will look: Monk: Role: Ki Striker Key Stats: Dexterity, Strength, Wisdom The unarmed specialist, trained in all sorts of mystical martial arts. May use special monk weapons in some builds, but focuses mainly on unarmed strikes. Attacks may include flurry strikes, pressure point stun attacks, or throwing enemies around the battlefield. May have a secondary Defender or Controller focus. Samurai: Role: Ki Defender Key Stats: Strength, Dexterity, Charisma The ki swordsman, focused on channeling his soul through his weapon. A highly mobile defender with light armor and a focus on swords and spears. Attacks may include keeping enemies away by quickly drawing his weapon, or channeling his ki to hit enemies with a vacuum wave. Could have a secondary Striker or Leader focus (if the "ki shout" is included as an attack). Mystic: Role: Ki Leader Key Stats: Wisdom, Charisma, Dexterity The mystical monk, focused more on aiding allies and magical effects than on unarmed combat. An expert at channeling ki to buff allies, debuff enemies, and banish unclean spirits. One possible build for this class could be the "zen archer", which uses purifying arrows to drive away fiendish foes. Ninja: Role: Ki Striker, Ki Controller (possibly), Shadow Striker Key Stats: Dexterity, Strength, Intelligence or Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom The mystical ninja, trained in esoteric arts of stealth and magic. Since the rogue can be used for more 'realistic' ninja, the Ki Ninja will probably cover the more mystical types that transform into logs or run up walls. The ninja will probably focus on unarmed attacks, light blades, and shurikens as weapons. Common themes for the Ki source may be light armor (like how primal classes don't use armor heavier than hide, they may be limited to cloth armor), and high mobility.
#35 marius4 Apr 25, 2009 8:39:35	Holy crap, Omni! I'm not jumpin' on any bandwagons or anything, but that is probably the most coherent concept presentation of the Ki power source I've read so far. I love the mystic idea , but personally I'm hoping the monk winds up a controller. Hmm, Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee, which one is the PP, which one is the ED? Oh, there is no ambiguity there. :P Hey, did anyone else wonder about the mention of "disincarnates" in the Ecology of the Deva article? It made me think of incarnum/incarnates, though I don't own the 3e material and have only heard of it through these boards.
#36 Marandahir Apr 25, 2009 10:59:48	It seems that Deva has more in-line with Primal than Divine, based off that Ecology article. Or at least as much with both of them. They're more likely to be Shamans than Clerics. But Devas may very well play right into Ki. Your Disincarnate/Incarnum reference is probably on the ball.
#37 Enclave Apr 25, 2009 11:15:24	Kensai is a Fighter Paragon Path ;) Hrm you're right (shows how much I care about fighters). Seems wrong what with their oriental nature, I was sure they'd be in the Ki power source. Also, just to point out, it's Kensei not Kensai.
#38 Marandahir Apr 25, 2009 11:36:22	Hrm you're right (shows how much I care about fighters). Seems wrong what with their oriental nature, I was sure they'd be in the Ki power source. Also, just to point out, it's Kensei not Kensai. The problem with confusing Japanese and German pronunciations... at least when Romaji are involved... Also, Weapon Mastery is the core of Martial. Why the heck would it be in Ki? Does being the best with a specific weapon really constitute something having to do with your soul? Unless you envisioned a special link between you and your sword, which means you're really looking for the Swordmage.
#39 Enclave Apr 25, 2009 11:41:52	The problem with confusing Japanese and German pronunciations... at least when Romaji are involved... Also, Weapon Mastery is the core of Martial. Why the heck would it be in Ki? Does being the best with a specific weapon really constitute something having to do with your soul? Unless you envisioned a special link between you and your sword, which means you're really looking for the Swordmage. I'm just saying, a Kensei is a Japanese Sword Saint. Thus why I would expect it to be in a Ki power source. Not a big deal, I don't particularly care either way so you aren't going to see me defend my position overly much.
#40 vaalingrade_ashland_02 Apr 25, 2009 11:51:47	I do remember them mentioning Wu-jen in the Races and Classes book I believe...could very well have that one. Hmmm you got me speculating now. I would think they are going to try and come up with stuff that isn't necessarily tied to a specific RL culture if they can avoid it......buuuuut not having much luck doing that myself. The problem is the definition of the Ki power source. In many ways it is synonymous with the ones we have already... a Monk could also fit under Martial...Wu-Jen Arcane..etc. I am finding it hard to differentiate between Ki, and flavours of the other Power Sources... A Wu-jen is Elemental if I've ever seen one. Better Ki classes would be Soul Blade and classes from Ghostwalk or Incarnum.
#41 Marandahir Apr 25, 2009 11:56:22	Yes, it means "Sword Saint". And yes, there was a possible moral component. However, the meaning behind the name was for someone who was a true master of swordsmanship. Miyamoto Mushashi, the archetypal Tactical Warlord (Strategist), was the most well know with this title, though he wasn't the only one. If he was in D&D, he would probably be either a Warlord MC Fighter, or a Fighter MC Warlord, or a Fighter/Warlord Hybridclassed, with the PP Kensei. So yeah. Oh, and I realise you aren't particularly interested in arguing about that. I just wanted to clarify why the "soul" component isn't very present. Anyone can be especially moral. The art of fighting can have spiritual elements to it, as Japanese styles often do. However, it takes more than just that to really be classified as being based in the power of your soul rather than the power of your body.
#42 praion Apr 26, 2009 9:28:11	I still think we will have Monk as Striker with Defender/Leader secondary. Incarnate (or other called KiCarnum user) as a Leader + Controler/Striker. He will create weapons and armor from his Soul to Aid allies. Then there is a possibility for 3 other classes. Soulsword as a second Striker. A Soul'forger' or something like that as someone who controls the enemys Soul energy and creates "Ki-Blasts". And a defender (that hopefully is not called Samurai...). One of them will e cut but yeah. We will see. A least i want to see KiCarnum !
#43 Daybreaker Apr 26, 2009 15:56:58	I miss the monk. Actually, what I really miss is unarmed combat and martial arts. They've been integral to my campaigns up until 4e.
#44 Sundracon Apr 26, 2009 19:54:48	Yeah, I miss the monk too. Just waiting for the playtest to come out next month. At least I'll then get one that is decent... The ones from "Advanced Players Guide" and "Classes and Races" were kinda lame as was the ranger conversion. I've actually been fiddling with a homebrew Ki Leader with monkish powers in my spare time.
#45 Nived Apr 27, 2009 16:55:29	May 11th, Dragon, Monk Playtest. There is your monk.
#46 cryoghoul Apr 29, 2009 1:49:09	Is the Ki power source confirmed? Personally I was just hoping they would re-create the monk as some kind of zany martial controller. One who's bursts were mostly Interrupts to getting hit.
#47 ah_stormbringer Apr 29, 2009 5:42:27	I would think the samurai would be the striker as their combat style is to hit hard And fast more so than a monks and it would be nice to see a fighter type that is a striker, I would say the monk is a controller with the secondary ability of striker. I know D&D has made the monk a striker class in previous editions but that does not make it right, if they make the monk more historically accurate for this edition would I think alot of people would be disapointed. Making the monk a controller makes more historical sense. I think we will see 4-6 new classes for Kai as this seems to be the norm per power source. I think you will see all types repersented. I hope they only bring out 1new power source next year, leave shadow and elemental for future player's handbooks.
#48 ranadiel Apr 29, 2009 5:57:59	Is the Ki power source confirmed? Personally I was just hoping they would re-create the monk as some kind of zany martial controller. One who's bursts were mostly Interrupts to getting hit. Yes Ki was confirmed back in PHBI and the monk was confirmed as being Ki in the same sentence.
#49 Darkwolf_Bloodsbane Apr 29, 2009 9:25:45	Yes Ki was confirmed back in PHBI and the monk was confirmed as being Ki in the same sentence. And has since been reconfirmed as Ki about 5,000,000,000,000,000 times. I see the confirmations so often, I'm amazed we still get this stupid topic as often as we do. Seriously, it beats out "I want a martial Controller." (I do too, but there are too many topics. that said, some of the "no martial controller" crowd just seem like it actually would physically harm them if a class of that type existed.)