The first concept I'll tackle is the monk. History aside and strait fantasy, I'm not talking about monastic priests living in Medieval Europe. I feel the key mechanic that is missing for this class is the ability to play an unarmed and unarmored party member that will contribute usefully to the party. I feel some concepts could be borrowed from the wizard, but the mechanics would still make it a striker. The idea would be to give all the monk's powers set damage amounts, like the wizard's. Since the monk doesn't use weapons, it doesn't make sense to say his attacks do 1[W] damage. I know that unarmed strikes are listed in the PHB as dealing 1d4 damage, but the monk has trained him or herself to be more effective with unarmed attacks. The damage could go up at each tier, but I think it should be set (i.e. 1d8 or 1d6 depending on the power) and not determined by weapons. I know some are probably worried about magic weapon/implement bonuses, so my idea is that the monk can use the bonuses of items magic items that fill the hand/arm/leg slots (only one at a time, of course). I know the anti-monk crowd out there will say that I could apply these changes to the two weapon ranger, but it would require changing rules (so a homebrew character and not a legit re-flavored character) and it would be a less effective striker that can't do ranged damage and doesn't have the AC to enter the fray.
The ninja is much like the rogue, but the key difference for my character concept of a ninja is stealth opposed to flanking. Sure, I don't think a ninja would be above stabbing an opponent in the back while he's preoccupied with the fighter, but I envision the ninja as vanishing from plain sight and then striking from the shadows. I want to see a class that has a method of slipping into stealth in the middle of a fight and then gets its extra damage. I know that warlocks get concealment if they move at least 3 squares, but the errata says stealth requires total concealment. Even if it didn't, warlock multiclassed rogue would have an encounter mechanic that I see as the principle mechanic of the ninja. Again, I'd like a class that moves, bluffs, or uses smoke bombs to get stealth, then gets the extra damage die. I understand not wanting to out shine warlocks and rogues, but this is a mechanic I think a ninja should have that doesn't yet exist. I could think of a couple ways to try and keep the power in balance and I trust WotC to do so adequately.
The last class is the hardest to justify and the one I've seen the most debates about. The problem with the samurai is that as soon as it's mentioned, D&D becomes about history and not about fantasy. Let us not forget that The Great Gygax took a mundane set of rules for simulating historical battles and added fantasy to make what has become D&D. That being said, I understand that the samurai was just the Japanese equivalent to the European knight. This includes centuries of a title that came to represent different things and groups of people over time. Tolkien, however, does not have a monopoly on fantasy and Hollywood isn't the only group that has turned a knight into something else. The paladin is a fighter based on legends and I'd like a samurai who is more than just what you read in the history books. I like the strong ronin type that use iaijustu with deadly force. I see the samurai as a controller that doesn't use magic. Let him or her walk into a group of minions and strike them all down at once with a quick flash of steel and scabbard. Give the samurai a strong kiai that debuffs enemies or keeps them from entering areas of the battlefield. Make the samurai unlike anything we've seen in this edition yet.
In summary, I feel these classes are different enough that they don't match preexisting classes. Sure you can re-flavor some of the classes to fit some descriptions of classes with the same name and I have done that. What I want is not re-flavored classes with new names, but new a different classes that are unique and add new mechanics to a party. I know that much of what I've said here isn't historically accurate, but that's the point of D&D. We want to be the heroes of an adventure and not the soldier who got mowed down on the front line of a charge.
I'll freaking make a kensai, samurai, wu-jen, shujena (probably misspelt), and (I dread saying this) ninja, just to show you can make them different.
As such the question then simply becomes whether or not that is a possible outcome or not, and I like to believe that it is.
Samurai = Ki(?) or Martial
Wu-Jen = Ki(?) or Arcane
Shujena (I mispell this all the time) = Divine
The monk is the easiest, and should be the first released, as a Ki Striker, I'd say. The monk's unarmed strike should be the extra damage, like Sneak Attack or Hunter's Quarry, and scale accordingly. His powers would likely involve manifesting his ki into his fists to pull off inhuman or mystical attacks, maybe jump or apply ki into a weapon to go through energy resistances or immunities. And of course, using ki for self-healing makes me think monk. I have no doubt others would disagree with this, though.
I made a ninja off the Ki source, and I tried to emphasize the mystical side of the ninja to truly seperate it from the extraordinary abilities of the real-world ninja (i.e. the rogue). Even more so, like all strikers, you need a unique form of extra damage.
The samurai is the toughest one for me. This one could easily be Ki or Martial, and its role could be either Leader or Defender. It's all up in the air for me, but going Ki would probably have techniques involved improving the cutting power in his weapons (note I say weapons, not swords). I also hope they allow katana specialization, twin-sword, spear master, or bow and arrow paths. So yeah, the samurai is the probably the hardest to clearly define.
Let me put this another way.
What is a Samurai outside of the eastern mythos? Can I create, for example, an Aztec Samurai? An Eskimo Samurai? What about an drow Samurai? Illithid? Raptoran? How will a bugbear ninja be different from a bugbear rogue? Can an Eladrin ninja really defeat a Dwarven ninja? And where do ninja succubi keep their knives, really?
The thing about archetypes is that they are distinct.
But they are also broad.
Yes, the paladin evolved from the knight image. But these days, it's the dark figure on a pale horse, defending the Way of the Raven Queen. It's the laughing swordsman giving his all for the Brawler's Whims, and is damn good with his fists. It's the bitter servant of Lloth, spiked chain in hand, spider mount ready for insurrection. And it's the shining knight of Bahamut, raising his sword in the morning light to fight evil.
Every archetype can account for a multitude of people and beings, thematically and mechanically distinct, while still be bound by common threads. Rangers can be anything from the hunter to the park ranger to the outrider to policeman to beastmasters, but can all be brought under the great big banner called Ranger. Same with Rogues, or Wizards, or Clerics.
The problem I see is one for the Samurai and the Ninja. I'll get to the monk in a bit.
How many Ninja types are there, and how are they going to be thematically and mechanically distinct from Rogues? Because the aforementioned techniques, hiding in plain sight and attacking from concealment, ARE ROGUE POWERS ALREADY. It's a rogue. That's all you need.
In a similar fashion, the samurai has a big problem. Will it revolve around Iaijutsu, yet leave the bow samurai hanging? Will it take the controller role with Kiai, yet lack the armored defender nature that is so ingrained in the samurai ideal? Will its powers allow the use of all the traditional samurai weapons? How will it handle different regions, traditions, and campaign settings?
And more importantly, how will it mechanically be any different than the fighter?
Because we can say "He charges up his weapon and releases a single, stunning attack!" But if it's an attack of 2[W]+2, it doesn't matter if it's striking twice, or twice as hard. The ability to hit a lot of targets is just a Whirlwind Attack-ish power. A single powerful strike is just a heavy damage, single target attack. We can flavor them how we like, but unless they are distinct mechanically, we might as well use the fighter.
The paladin (since he's the poster boy for this thing) isn't just a knight anymore. He's a holy warrior, from any fantasy society or religion. I can say Githyanki Paladin, and we all know what I'm talking about, the devotee of the Lich Queen, silver sword in hand. An Illithid Paladin is going to be an interesting contrast to a Drow Paladin, just as Paladins of Kord, Pelor, Bahamut, Erathis, the Raven Queen, Orcus, and Bane will all be thematically very different individuals, with their own place in each culture.
Can you say the same of the Samurai?
Now, the monk. He's got a problem. And it's a different one. His problem is not that he is mechanically and thematically indistinct and unnecessary.
His problem is that he is.
There's the unarmed monk in deep meditation. The wandering drunkard brawler with an uncanny fighting style. The mystical warrior with his sword, defying the laws of physics. The dedicated fighter practicing his quarterstaff technique. The hard-bodied kickboxer, fast and deadly. The perfect kung-fu genius, master of any weapon and style.
It's the gnomish trickster who masterfully glides through combat with his tortoise blade. It's the gnollish brawler, honing his claws into a formidable fighting style which is less discipline than it is demolition. It's the kensai on the mountain, practicing his sword technique for a decade before returning to the kingdom to claim his heritage. It's the titan wrestler, who can grapple anything smaller than him, which is a very big list indeed. It's the one thing under the big list of Ki which can cross cultures and worlds, and still be fairly distinct.
We can make a monk. We can incorporate a variety of powers, a bit of boxing, a smudge of shaolin, a dash of Irish fistfighting, a tad of weapon training, and a good healthy dose of kung-fu. It'll probably come out well. And it's just about the only thing Ki has going for it, at the moment, which isn't an eastern-flavored fighter, rogue, or wizard.
And yet he isn't.
Because we could reflavor the fighter, the rogue, and the ranger, and add feat trees to incorporate unarmed abilities. That would give us brawler monks, wrestler monks, striker monks, and mystical weapon monks. And we could use all the powers available, from the Rogue's status effects to the Fighter's multitargeting to the Ranger's rapid fire.
The problem is Ki.
On this front, I am still puzzled myself. How is Ki different than Martial, both thematically and mechanically? Is one "flashy", while the other is not? Does soul energy and discipline versus body and discipline really have different results? How will the two be different in Dnd?
Arcane always seems to have a nod in the Controller direction. Divine has leader all over the place. Martial always takes a Minor in Striker, it seems.
What will Ki do differently, that Martial cannot accomplish? And will Ki be a problem, separating the two with the old phrase "Ki is for magical effects, Martial is for mundane" that has plagued previous editions?
I do not know. I leave that for others to ponder.
Personally, monk is the only class of the three that I see as a ki class. Like most strikers, the monk's attacks could also debuff enemies. In this manner, the ki becomes necessary to disrupt the enemy's abilities or to add temporary hit points. The description of the shadow power source seems perfect for the ninja. In this way, the ninja gets access to the improved stealth over other classes and supernatural death abilities. I feel the samurai can be a martial class and still be different than fighters.
As far as archetypes, I want the samurai to be its own. Again, I see the class as a blade master controller. Beyond what you see in manga, I think the class could describe the nameless hero in the movie "Hero" (or any of the sword wielding experts in that movie), or even Inigo Montoya from "The Princess Bride." The class would be the unarmored blade master that drops all the minions that approach it in a single round. Even Inigo Montoya had his shouts of power that sent his enemies running. Yes, this would depart from the historical character and focus it into a fantasy role, but that's the game.
I appreciate Dragoncat pointing out the hide in plain sight rogue exploit, but I looked at it before I posted. The problem is that you have to already have active stealth to use it. I know all classes can attack from stealth, but once they attack stealth is broken and the system makes it very difficult to obtain stealth in combat. The player must have total concealment and opponent facing doesn't help. I'd like to see a class that can obtain stealth in the heat of a battle. The hard thing for ninja is that the archetype is covered in the paragon paths for rogues. I see non-Asian ninja as assassins (like Altair in "Assassins Creed") and spies, but those are covered. Maybe the martial power book will have a feat that lets rogues hide while in battle and the ninja debate will become moot. (Even though ninja rock and I like Hanzo's write-up, I'll just have to re-flavor and enjoy going stealth in the middle of battle instead of flanking.)
Nothing on the boards is ever official in the least bit. My guess is that even WotC doesn't know what classes it will make for sure, or even how to make them. I'm probably just being vain, but I hope that, to some degree, we can give them enough good ideas for how to make distinct and different classes that we get these classes.
-Monk = Ki Striker (practically confirmed)
-Ninja = Shadow Striker or Paragon Path
-Samurai = Paragon Path
-Sohei = Ki Defender
I could also see:
-Incarnate = Ki Leader
-Wu-Jen = Elemental Controller
Monks: I would have like a different name for the martial-artist Ki Striker class, since I want to see a Divine class built around actual the imagery and ideas of Christian or Buddhist monks, rather than the overdone Shaolin Monks, but I like the class concept itself just fine. Flashier would be better, though.
Ninja: I want them to be Arcane, focusing on the fanciest techniques ever given to something called a "Ninja". We already have a skilled sneaky assassin guy (the Rogue), so let the Ninja do stuff like trick his enemies into attacking a log or ride a giant frog.
Samurai: There are a number of ways they could get this right. Actually, it is more of a matter of "which cool concept that deserves to be a class should be called a Samurai", rather than "what should the Samurai be?" A Martial Controller built upon striking fear into his foes' hearts, a Ki Defender, a weapon-based Ki Controller who can cut down a dozen foes in the blink of an eye, a skilled archer who wears armor, etc. There is no need for a class named Samurai to overlap with existing classes in the least, since the problem is more a matter of finding an existing concept and running with it.
I have been over this a few times in various thread already, so I will just summarize here.
Monks: I would have like a different name for the martial-artist Ki Striker class, since I want to see a Divine class built around actual the imagery and ideas of Christian or Buddhist monks, rather than the overdone Shaolin Monks, but I like the class concept itself just fine. Flashier would be better, though.
Ninja: I want them to be Arcane, focusing on the fanciest techniques ever given to something called a "Ninja". We already have a skilled sneaky assassin guy (the Rogue), so let the Ninja do stuff like trick his enemies into attacking a log or ride a giant frog.
Samurai: There are a number of ways they could get this right. Actually, it is more of a matter of "which cool concept that deserves to be a class should be called a Samurai", rather than "what should the Samurai be?" A Martial Controller built upon striking fear into his foes' hearts, a Ki Defender, a weapon-based Ki Controller who can cut down a dozen foes in the blink of an eye, a skilled archer who wears armor, etc. There is no need for a class named Samurai to overlap with existing classes in the least, since the problem is more a matter of finding an existing concept and running with it.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
I see the monk could be more of a close range controller, using the momentum of his heavily armed opponents against them. Rapid fire attacks of less damage, but more frequent that result in hindering effects such as sliding, dazing, stunning, disarming, etc.
The ninja I see as a Ki Striker (although shadow could also fit) because the thing that seems to unify the Ki classes is the asian heritage, so it thematically fits. I agree with the idea that these are stealth-heavy assassins.
The Samurai is a perfect fit for a Ki defender, with fearsome shouts which scare the foes into place, pushing and pulling effects with a singular focus on his sword.
The Wu-jen could bring out the elements from within, but perhaps use them at close range instead of the plethora of ranged arcane types, focusing them into strikes, or some such thing.
I still think it's a stretch, but as long as the classes are mechanically unique, I'm cool with them.
An extension of this issue is that there's no such thing as a 'typical' samurai, monk, ninja, etc. any more than there's a 'typical' swordsman. In Seven Samurai, for instance, you've got two samurai who'd be best statted as warlords, three as fighters, and two as rogues (ironically, one of these is the actual rogue who isn't a real samurai, and the other is the epitome of bushido). Monks aren't even homogenous within a single school, let alone as an entire 'class' (just look at any fighting game - better models for fantasy monks than movies - to see how difficult it would be to encapsulate the numerous possible concepts into one 'monk' class). Ninja, at least, are somewhat more easily generalized, but the rogue already does that (or at least, the rogue with the Alchemy feat already does that).
The other problem, of course, is in reinstating the impression that your class name is also your job title. That's a 3e problem - while some of its classes are presented as toolboxes for custom development (and thus it doesn't matter what label is attached to them), others are presented as professions or life paths that are recognized in-world as such. This can be problematic if a character concept doesn't match up quite right with the class description. 4e's more or less made the jump entirely to toolbox character development, but the more you pigeonhole certain concepts (especially ones that can be accomplished in other ways), the more you discourage that kind of thinking. The problem is psychological, not mechanical: once you have a samurai class, pretty soon people start thinking that to be a samurai, you must be a member of (or at least multiclassed into) that class. True, not everyone is going to think like that, but enough will to make it extremely annoying for those who don't (case in point: I had to chide someone in the game yesterday for referring to my character as the 'thief' because she's a rogue, when my concept for her is 'scout').
Lateral and creative thinking combined with a break between fluff and mechanics can work wonders: for instance, monks can be easily depicted by a feat or substitute class feature for whatever class you like that makes an unarmed strike a 1d6, +3 proficiency, off-hand weapon and letting them enchant it normally (representing secret techniques, mystic tattoos, magical sutras inscribed on hand wraps, whatever you like). A samurai can be whatever you like as long as the character is proficient in something that can pass as a katana (and, preferably, has the Quick Draw feat). A ninja can be... er... well, the list is a little more limited for ninja, ranger/rogue/warlock/swordmage being about the extent of it so far, wizard might be pushing it a bit... but that covers the bases pretty well.
Of course, it's always nice to have something laid out in a more straightforward way rather than cobbling it together yourself, but since with individual customization you don't have to be dependent on someone else's ideal (insert profession here), not to mention you don't have to wait for them to publish it, I think it's a worthwhile tradeoff.
If there's a ki defender, it's best served by having another class fill that role. There's a few good classes that appeared in Tome of Battle and Magic of the Incarnum that fill that role better, such as Swordsage, Warblade or Soulborn. In fact it's better to call them Bladedancers than Samurai.
Ninjas, while being very Japanese as well, there's at least a little more room to work with them. And I do see them as a class that'll take a lot of the Shadowdancer's and Assassin's (especially their spells) abilities.
Monks, there's plenty of room to work with them as there's Ascetic Warriors or Unarmed Combat Experts from the myths and history of China, Korea, Japan and other places. Europe has a couple of things that fit into a "Monk" whether it be someone who specializes Pankraton for the Unarmed Combat Expert or an ascetic warrior (though those ones would typically be fighters or paladins). And there's also such traditions that has it's roots in Africa too.
My idea for a samurai might get a class title of Blade Master or Sword Dancer. In this way, those that see the samurai as a controller can use this class, while those that see it as a striker can use the two weapon ranger, and those that see it as a defender can use the fighter. All three groups can say their character was a samurai before he or she joined the adventure group and no one feels the samurai class leaves out a vital part of historical significance. The problem with this is that people will complain until doomsday about waiting for the class to be made and needing to re-flavor text until then. Maybe WotC will make a book about creating out of class occupations and carrying non-adventure related titles; except that D&D is all about adventuring and those that want mechanics on how to plant crops should probably just stick with Settlers of Catan.
TwinBahamut also made a very interesting point about the ninja. The class seems like a poster child for the shadow power based on Ranadiel's verified compilation post and that power source enhances both stealth and illusions. The class could have three builds, like the warlock. Let's be kind of crazy and call the three builds genjutsu (eye techniques), taijutsu (body techniques), and ninjutsu (stealth techniques). Then let's make some wild guesses and say that those that focus on genjutsu get abilities to trick the minds of their enemies and inflict psychic or necrotic damage, those that focus on taijutsu get abilities that let them deal more damage in physical combat and can use poisons, and those that focus on ninjutsu can produce shadow illusions like shadow clones (for those that are lost on this joke, this is an oversimplified version of the ninja in the popular series Naruto).
In all seriousness, TwinBahamut is right in pointing out that the mechanics do not exist to make a ninja like those in the popular show and manga. I know because I tried. (One of the guys in my last group harassed me for watching the show and I wanted to snub my nose at him by making a character that could easily be recognized by fans of the show and no one else; I even named the character Uzi McKay.) The idea seems like a no-brainer: 1)The mechanics don't exist for a very popular style of hero. 2)The necessary mechanics would fit almost perfectly into one of the basic power sources and still be distinct from existing classes. 3)The new class could bring new fans to the game. Sorry all you who feel the show is like fingernails on a chalkboard (probably due to the English dub or the overly emo foil to the main character), but it almost makes sense for WotC to make a ninja that can at least be re-flavored to play like a character from the show.
That said, if the monk appears at all, it will almost certainly be a ki-source class, which the designers have said is planned to have more mystical connotations than martial - which means that unless there's some sort of Improved Unarmed Strike feat forthcoming either in Martial Power or some future Dragon release, there won't be any good official 'brawler' options that don't have a supernatural flavor except for the official conversion advice that builds off the ranger. So while the 4e monk won't be nearly as restrictive in scope as the 3e one (especially if you're like me and trade out class features whenever the concept requires it), it'll probably still have some of the same issues.
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Ninja is a different matter. I fully support a distinct 'supernatural ninja' class, since while nearly all 'real' ninja techniques can be reproduced by an alchemist rogue, the 'mystic shinobi' archetype that you see in manga and video games does kind of get left out in the cold.
Okay, I am fairly sure that the ninja will be a shadow striker. However, it also seems likely that it will be renamed assassin, or maybe shadowdancer, primarily because: A. it would fit the shadow power source better; B. it could be incorporated into any in-game culture; and C. the term "ninja" is too narrow.
Perhaps in a classical sense, not in a more modern sense I don't think so. When we live in a world were people having their post preempted by an identical (or nearly so) post above their own as being "ninja'd" (sp?), I think it's fair to say that the meaning of the word has become broader than its original connotations.
Also, ninja really is the best term. Assassin caries with it a negative connotation, not so good for heroic fantasy. Shadow Dancer doesn't really mean much of anything outside of D&D. Ninja is a term that is immediately accessible for players who are new to the game, and while other interpretations ninja do exist, sneaky sudo-magical guy in the shadows is common enough.
...sudo-magical guy...
"sudo-magical???"
might you mean "pseudo?" Or did I miss something?
"sudo-magical???"
might you mean "pseudo?" Or did I miss something?
It might be Japanese.
It might be Japanese.
It's bad English.
It's bad English.
And I was making a bad joke.
might you mean "pseudo?" Or did I miss something?
Indeed I did. Please pardon my bad spelling. I couldn't get it close enough for spell check to recognize and I hadn't yet thought of using a "P".
Also, ninja really is the best term. Assassin caries with it a negative connotation, not so good for heroic fantasy. Shadow Dancer doesn't really mean much of anything outside of D&D. Ninja is a term that is immediately accessible for players who are new to the game, and while other interpretations ninja do exist, sneaky sudo-magical guy in the shadows is common enough.
Good point, and if I decide to play one or use one as an NPC, I can call it something else anyhow. One of those two would just be my personal preference.